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YOUR RESEARCHTransmission question regarding Tiptronic
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Check call them, great people
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I'm no sure whether Durametric resets tiptronic codes yet, they were still working on this last time I checked, call them, great people.
Leading evidence: 'Check call them, great people' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check call them, great people' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I have a friend with over 300k miles on his Benz and he has never even changed the ATF.
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Fingers crossed that I can get away with only some internal parts being replaced, rather than shelling out about $5K for a rebuild & install.
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My tip was replaced at 40,000 miles under warranty.
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Third gear is slipping and apparently I have some sort of internal leak...63K miles and the transmission had already been replaced under warranty at 32K.
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Suggestion
however if you do see evidence and want to repair fluid damage it's just a matter of opening, cleaning with Electronic Cleaner, air drying with a fan (no heat guns!) and reinstalling.
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The problem is that, just like M96 motors, there is very little market for rebuilding cores, so nobody knows how to work on them, and will recommend R&R for the smallest issues.
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however if you do see evidence and want to repair fluid damage it's just a matter of opening, cleaning with Electronic Cleaner, air drying with a fan (no heat guns!) and reinstalling.
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Suggestion
They rarely leak, and when they do it's almost always from very well documented places, however maintaining appropriate fluid levels is critical to longevity and repairing leaks when you see them is not only simple, it's a must.
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Hey everyone, I was wondering if tiptronic equipped 996 models were more or less prone to any problems. Just curious to gauge what are the more problematic items with Tips.
Thanks
Owned one for 102k miles, 0 problems. I have read on the 993 board that no one has experienced an issue either. The early 99-01 trans is the same trans that runs in a lot of 3 series Bimmers, A4 Audi's, and I think V-dubs without any issues to speak of.
Well, as a matter of fact my 2003 C4S has a date at the shop Tuesday to diagnose what a dealer told me is a terminal Tiptronic issue requiring a $13K transplant. Third gear is slipping and apparently I have some sort of internal leak...63K miles and the transmission had already been replaced under warranty at 32K.
Fingers crossed that I can get away with only some internal parts being replaced, rather than shelling out about $5K for a rebuild & install.
Difference is that mine is a Mercedes unit and not a ZF (99-01). Never liked MB so this is karma I guess.
According to Adrian Streather's 996 book (great resource), the turbo's all have the Daimler-Chrysler (M-B) unit, as well as the 3.6's. ZF supplied only the 3.4 Tips.
"The result is that 996s can have one of five Tiptronic S packages." (pg. 244)
Others have said that the Mercedes units are pretty reliable in general, and my mechanic told me that the 928 Tips were Merecedes and they were bulletproof.
I guess I should be buying lottery tickets since I seem to be one LUCKY dude
Mtl911sc, before you shell out that kind of money for a replacement/rebuild, you ought to check the porsche wrecking yards. Because, as a general matter, the tips don't go out often, there is usually a plentiful supply of good used units from wrecked cars at good prices. I got one (after I drove around on low fluid for 6 months and finally cooked it) from silverstar recycling for something like 2500, and they didn't even require a core (which adds to shipping). good luck. Scott.
Thanks for the feedback & advice Scott...my intent was not to 'jack this thread but the timing of the topic was spot on.
After visiting the dealer I called some Porsche salvage yards - DC Auto in NC wants over $5K (plus core charge) for theirs and Parts Heaven in CA told me they hadn't had one in stock for a while. However I didn't call Silverstar. I do know I won't be springing for a new unit since my particular car's history has shown that it doesn't necessarily minimize the chances of something going wrong.
I don't really know how my transmission was handled by the previous owner, so it's fate may have been sealed some time ago. I've only had the car for a few thousand miles.
+1, mine didn't drip either to 102k miles.
That is amazing that a Mercedes unit would fail. I have a friend with over 300k miles on his Benz and he has never even changed the ATF.
There seems to be a BIG difference in reliability between the legacy Mercedes-Benz products and the Daimler/Chrysler days. Their reliability ratings tanked progressively after that merger.
Apparently things have improved recently, post-merger.
In my personal experience, the MB 722.6 series 5 speed electronically controlled transmissions are near bulletproof mechanically in most applications (although I haven't dug into the specifics of the configuration in the turbo TipS in the 3.6 cars). You may need a solenoid once in a blue moon, but most of the problems happen to be electronic or electrical in nature, as you might expect. I have had 3 and still have 2 MBs with this trans and one 996, and have never had any real trouble.
The problem is that, just like M96 motors, there is very little market for rebuilding cores, so nobody knows how to work on them, and will recommend R&R for the smallest issues. Changing the fluid is one of the most often prescribed knee-jerks ahead of replacement, but more often than not will cause more problems than it fixes. They rarely leak, and when they do it's almost always from very well documented places, however maintaining appropriate fluid levels is critical to longevity and repairing leaks when you see them is not only simple, it's a must.
90% of the problems have to do with damage to wiring, pins, or the ETC itself, either from impact, broken mounts, or from leaking trans fluid wicking up into the transmission control module. The electrical test programs for this series of transmissions is relatively uniform, and if anyone ever needs them I can send them to you.
They are pretty easy to troubleshoot and repair electrically and electronically, but if you do lose a seal or clutch pack you're SOL, R&R. It's important to note that in all MBs and other cars with these transmissions, you CANNOT reset them utilizing a generic ODB tool. You can reset the trans code that's in the ODB computer, but it will not reset the ETC, which you will need to manufacturer's tools to access and clear after making an electrical or electronic repair.
Hans, do you know if the control module is available as a replacement part if it has been damaged by leaking fluid? The dealer told me I have some sort of internal leak but my indy mechanic hasn't taken a look yet.
Spot on Hans, most of them I have seen only have solenoid/electrical gremlins, the mechanics of them usually are good unless ran low on fluid.
Another source for rebuilds and very cheap is:
*
http://www.europeantransmissions.com/
P.S. - *don't know of any feedback good or bad
Another note is more than likely if an electrical gremling; solenoid, harness, modules, etc., you probably will not have to have the trans removed as a lot of the components is above the fluid pan.
Once again, my experience is not with the TipS application, but I would imagine you could order one from Porsche. The exterior enclosure of the ETC may vary. Call up Sunset or Suncoast and give them your VIN, they'll give you the part number and price if it's available here or from Germany. FYI, the likely number is (1) 996 618 180 07 CONTROL UNIT TIPTRONIC SEE TECHNICAL INFORMATION GR. 3 , NR. 6/02 02 1 M 249 $1753.69 but you really need to speak with a dealer about your specific car.
Before you do that though, inspect the control module for evidence of contamination, spots of fluid etc. If clean and throwing no trans codes to the OBD port, you probably don't have an issue a the ETC. however if you do see evidence and want to repair fluid damage it's just a matter of opening, cleaning with Electronic Cleaner, air drying with a fan (no heat guns!) and reinstalling. Then you have to stop the leak at the source, and if it's in the ETC then the leak is 99.99% from a collar down by the pan where the cable harness plugs into the shift control module, and an updated part should be available for very cheap.
Most 722.6 trans don't come with a dipstick for fluid, but a tool can be ordered from anybody, MB, Chrysler, assuming Porsche etc. I've seen tools from MB and Chrysler and they are the same. Looks like a long piece of metal with a big red handle (shocking I know) and does NOT insert all the way into the filler tube. To be safe order one from porsche if they sell. Make sure you measure the trans fluid level when at operating temperature, car running, shifter in neutral or park. Use an infrared thermometer to measure the temperature, and read the level off the tool.
Some final notes, in my research tonight I can confirm that all the 02+ cars are 722.6 MB transmissions, however the part numbers are different (as they should be, 4wd / 2wd). The C2 should have an A96.10 and the C4 should have an A96.35. The 01 turbo had A96.50 but it's unclear whether or not the 02+ turbos are A96.50s or 35s. The A96.50 almost had to be a 722.6 W5A 580 as 580 Nm is from my memory the highest capacity AWD trans MB made back then and the only one capable of handling the turbo's torque rating. This also means that the TipS in the Carreras either doesn't have the same torque rating as the turbo or is otherwise differently configured, maybe different gearing. Adrian or Loren should be able to confirm for you. The below list seems to confirm my reading of this however the number of gears seems to include reverse! If anyone has an 02+ shop manual they want to email me a link to, I can confirm how closely the shift plate resembles the ones I've seen for this trans before .
A96 Porsche Automatic Getriebe f�r Typ 911 Carrera (996)
A96/00 6 Gang Automatic Getriebe f�r Typ 911 Carrera (996)
A96/10 6 Gang Automatic Getriebe f�r Typ 911 Carrera (996) ab 2002
A96/35 6 Gang Automatic Getriebe f�r Typ 911 Carrera (996) ab 2002
A96/50 6 Gang Automatic Getriebe f�r Typ 911 Turbo (996) ab 2002
What work did the dealer do to determine that there was an internal leak?
Is the trans giving you any codes at the OBD port? If so please post.
100% right, the electronics are going to be in a separate module away from the trans, and are intended to be "dry". There will also be another shift control module inside the pan but outside of the trans case which houses the solenoids and some logic which are "wet", subject to fluid.
If you have to go into the case, you are screwed with a capital F, these things don't repair easily when the internals go. You need to buy a unit out of a wreck or be able to turn your own wrenches if you need to go inside, the cost to explore inside the trans case is going to be stratospheric otherwise.
The dealer was vague - reading directly from my invoice: "verified fluid level, according to procedure there is an internal leak in the transmission. Transmission needs to be changed." So I assume the tech was going by the diagnostic in the service manual, although no specific location of the leak was specified.
They only accounted for code P0701 "Transmission slips" but I believe that's an engine code and not from the Tiptronic unit itself.
you wouldn't happen to be Paul, PMc4S on renntech would you?
As I understand it, P0701 at OBD port is Transmission Control System, not a ratio/gear code (those are generally P073x), and should be accompanied by sub codes. The same codes are thrown by the ETC to the OBD, they just can't be reset by an OBD reader, need a real tool for that. you need to go out and spend 50 bucks on a code reader, or a couple hundred for a durametric, and drill down on the codes. I'm no sure whether Durametric resets tiptronic codes yet, they were still working on this last time I checked, call them, great people. Knowledge is definitely power here, knowing the exact information from the port could mean the difference between a 100 dollar repair and a $10K nightmare.
Busted
Yes that would be me. Didn't intend to cross-post but I wanted to make others aware that Tips do in fact have issues, hopefully none of the terminal kind however.
According to the Durametric site they support Tiptronic up to 2001, later series is under development. Guess I'll have to call them.
Thanks for the support everyone, and cheers to you Hans. Without the info I found on these forums I would be completely at the mercy of those who simply shrug and claim I need a transmission swap. It may turn out that way in the end, but at least it won't be result of ignorance.
Didn't dive deep enough into Durametric's website - seems 2001+ Tips are now covered :
"Version 5.0.11
April 22nd 2008
Improvement
Added 2001+ 996 Tiptronic support include reading and clearing codes, and reseting adaptation "
that's good news! looks like i'll be buying a durametric.
and don't worry, I'll be bugging you when I need help with a 930/915 trans, which may be very soon (my recall only goes back as far as G50)
My G-50 has held to 460-480 ft/lbs of power shifting. But, the 930 I believe is said to be stronger but you loose that low 1st gear comparing to the G-50.
