does depreciation bother you on a new car?

My P car was bought about 16 months old and I saved 35,000 euro (42,538.96 USD) on the new price. I could have bought a new one no probs but being a businessman I like a deal. The first years depreciation is just too much and would rather buy a 1 year old car. How about you new car guys? Either you are so rich you do not care or you are not as you get some tax incentives etc, or you just like that new car feel?

I would have purchased a very slightly used car, but the C4S Cab was first introduced when I was looking so there were no pre-owned ones. If you can find a pre-owned car that has all the options you want, why not? Otherwise you don't purchase a Porsche because it's a sound investment.

If you can find a pre-owned car that has all the options you want, why not? That's an excellent point. If I buy a one year old 997 and pay $10K less for it then when it was new, is it still a great deal if the 997 isn't my first choice with respect to interior and exterior colors or the way the car is optioned? So I guess the real question is how much is the buyer willing to pay for a car that meets 100% of his requirements. Of course the best of all worlds is to find a used Porsche in great shape that is equipped exactly the way you like, and in the interior and exterior colors that you like.

If I had a business which I could right off 100% of the car against I'd lease new, but I don't. I look at a car as something that ties up cash. I couldn't plonk down $90k cash on a car today that would loose me a massive percentage in the next 2 years.. that would hurt too much. Like riad says though - I probably would if I just had to have a certain car, and that's the only way to get it, but for me buying used is more about bang for the buck. If someone gave me enough cash to buy a new 997, then my mind would go.. hang on, I could get a 2 year old 996 TT which seems like a no brainer to me. Keith

I was in this situation. A new nicely optioned 2005 997S for $90k or a 2001 TT extremely well optioned with 22k miles for $69k. Of course I bought the TT....my momma didn't raise no dummy

I am with riad yet again on this one,I looked for a few months for the perfect car, every option , and the colour combo, believe it or not it was not out there when i was looking. I ended up ordering one knowing that i was going to take a hugh hit. I enjoy the car every time I drive it, and don't think about it.I do not regret it for a second

I can't take the hit. I just can't. What is 90k today is 60k in 3 or 4 years, and that ain't chump change. I was at the "Porsche Experience" today at the LA Autoshow, and looking at all those 997's for 90 and 100k, knowing they'll be dropping like rocks the first few years. I don't get it, I really don't. You get a buzz on the new car for about 3 days, then it doesn't matter whether it's 3 days or 3 years old, as long as it was well cared for.

It is ok for me to compromise. I wanted and awd drive for the winter so that is what I went looking for. I also found a really good deal, so the stinge factor kicked in and I did not really care too much about the options, although I got lucky with satnav, phone,psm etc.

all my car were 2nd hand (with full service history - warranty) 2-3 years old.... i am pretty sure i saved $$$$ (euros to be more precise...) i always had warranty (so nothing to worry about) and concerning the option list of the car i was always lookin for things that cannot be retro-fitted such us psm on later cars, (or litterally retro-fitted i.e. navigation). colour comb & model of course were the first to choose without any later changes.... if you spend time on searching th ideal for you car i am pretty sure you will find it....and having in mind that you are saving loads of $$$$.....it is really worth it. for people that think that brand new cars are totally different that 2nd hand cars i partly agree.... but i have also in my mind that even if you order a p-car with specified option list so that it will be the ideal one, you will still need to wait3-6 months for del. depending on country ..... i would spend this time 2-6 months searchinh for a second hand..... p.s. i am talking as a person that can afford a brand-new P-car. people that cannot afford one is a totally different situation and it is one-way solution....in the end we all belong to the p-familly..... i have laso in my mind that there is not really a good reason loosing such a big amount of money on depreciation over the first years.....unless you like the procedure going to an official centre talk to saleman, ordering a car and being one of the first to drive brand new models.... agaqin this is another option.....

Having been in the car business for too much of my life, I only buy used if possible. If it is just an everyday daily driver that I plan on keeping for the next 5-10 years like my wifes car, then I will sometimes buy new. But on high ticket item, like a P-car, I think for a 20-40k savings, I can easily find a car to suit my needs. Another thing to give some thought to, if you buy used, think of all the money you have left over to modify your slightly used ride? Another advantage to buying used, you normally don't have to wait around for that first ding, scratch, or rock chip that too many people are so **** about. Nutbeem, that new P-car will be worth about one half of retail in 4 years. Tom L 2002 C2

I bought my 99' 996 for about 40 cents on the Dollar. While i like new cars i usually choose used just for that fact. Plus we have had about 9 cars in the past 3-4 years. Normally we can get out of them even or less 10% when we tire of them. I am not a big fan of leasing since i don't have an overwhelming need to have a new car. I would rather have interesting ones.

Don't forget, if you get a 1yr old CPO car, you get more warranty than if you bought new. It's a no-brainer for me- as long as you can find the car you want (and you usually can).

does depreciation bother you on a new car? Not until I sell

Mike, I feel for you.

Agreed with most of the comments above. I think it's also easier to get into a used p-car than lets say a benz or bimmer, because usually porsche owners take very good care of their cars. Not to say Benz/bimmer owners don't care of their car, because they do, but the run of the mill cars are usually filled with high miles, noticable wear and tear and the cars LOOK like they've been used. You can easily find 3-4 year old p-cars with very little mileage, great condition and have excellent service/history records.

Okay, a little thread drift, but I kind of like the idea that I did not have to dread putting the first stone chip or nick in my car and feeling guilty about it. A used car can give a bit of mental freedom, at least until the warranty expires!

Sorry to differ, nothing beats new, I don't give a crap about depreciation. I won't pay that kind of cash for anything used. I'm the only one that's ever sat in/ ate in /etc in my 90k car, can't beat that. Don't buy a Porsche as an investment boys, it's a toy, a very nice toy, but a toy none the less.

I'm with the C4S Surgeon. Nothing like buying a new car as special as a Porsche. I'm serious about my cars and am very picky. When you buy used you never know how bad the car was abused. No doubt about it, sports cars get driven hard. My car is perfect (2003 C4S). Optioned with everything I wanted. Besides, the bulk of depreciation is in the first two years and I plan on keeping mine for several years. So the depreciation is not so bad when spread out over several years. Plus, in my case, C4S's hold their value better than a standard 911.

Like I said I will buy new, I like being the one that breaks it first!

When you reward youself with a porsche, wouldn't you really rather have a new one? Remember, 'pay yourself first', like Trump says.

Well, there you go - it was looking pretty good for the used guys, then the new guys came on strong. It's a good thing too - without Kilgrit and Surgeon, Porsche wouldn't have any need to keep building the best cars in the world!

I can put an order down for a new 997 TT and not need to finance it, but I won't. I don't think i will ever buy a new car - 30-40% depreciation in 3 years is not an asset - its a liability I donlt come from old money and i've had to work for evey penny i have (and i'm still young), so wasted cash can be spent on investments that appreciate

Yeah, thanks guys. Lucky you new car buyers are here otherwise there would be no second hand ones. Most of the time you are going to lose money on a car. For me I got a great deal 6k under the next cheapest i could find ( still do not kmow why), so i guess when I sell this year it will be for the price i bought it for for a quick sale.

Yes now - maybe not later in life - what do I mean? I have a two year old and the 529 plan eats up a lot of money towards college later. We need a bigger house, a second child is on the way, and we are investing to grow our business. Therefore, getting a car that stickered in the low 80s for the mid 40s (and it came with a warranty) allows me to sleep better at night. However, if all goes as planned, once my kids (second one on the way) are done with school, I don't need to buy a bigger house, and I'm later in my career, I don't think I'll care too much about depreciation. We have an SUV and a sedan that we bought new, but the Porsche is a luxury, so I couldn't justify going new because of the depreciation we would experience. I think you're justified if you do care about depreciation, and you're fortunate if you don't have to worry about it.

and we are investing to grow our business. You could be a great candidate for a Porsche lease. You could then have a great tax write off for your business.

I want everyone else here to go right out and buy a new Porsche RIGHT AWAY. I'll just stand over here and.. sing a little song, hum to myself, draw some doodles, etc., for about... 3 years.... thanks. bye. thanks. Seriously, I could... theoretically... buy a new one. But I won't. I'm old school. I own all my cars outright. I pay cash. I couldn't do that with a new Porsche... so I won't buy one. I'd need to make payments... PAY INTEREST on a LOAN!!! ... can't do it.

Unfortunatley, I am not liquid. I found almost exactly what I wanted ($116,000 sticker and I paid $64,000 just 39 months and 22,000 miles later with an extended 2 year CPO warranty). The math was simple for me. I was looking at well over $100,000 for a new C4S Cab and for me, that was a stretch.

There's been some great arguments made for both sides. Since I'm a used fan, thanks to all the guys who take the first leap new, without which many of us would not be able to drive these terrific automobiles

Ditto...

I'm not rich so don't characterize new car buyers as such or fools with our money. I know that was not the intent of your thread. I bought my car new because I like new cars. It is not my only Porsche and won't be my last. Will I buy new again? Maybe. It all depends on what I want out of my next car and whether or not that will be air cooled or water cooled. Depreciation has never been on my list of things to consider when making a purchase decision. That's probably why I'm not rich! What's most important is that we are all in the same make, appreciate how we got here, and are passionate enough to spend time on a computer sharing our opinions, experiences and questions with fellow Porschefiles.

It's interesting also because the year old 997 might cost more than a new one . How do I figure? 10k less than sticker is only $6k more than a typical 4k discount for a new car off sticker and if you have to finance the car, like many people do, you won't qualify for the low interest rate of a new car which can often be 3-4% and will have to pay used car financing which is commonly 10%. On expensive cars like Porsches, the difference in finacing rate over the life of the loan can be another $5k. Plus you have one year less warranty and when people are paying thousands for extended warranties, one year less is worth $500 to $1000 bucks. Plus like the carfax commercials say, people do strange things to cars and while many people have good experiences with buying a used car normally a used car is damaged in many ways often imperceptible to the used car buyer. If it's an amazing deal, it might be ok, but it usually isn't and it is always a gamble unless someone knows the seller and the car's history.

Here's the beauty of capitalism: everyone can buy what they want so long as they can afford it. You like new and want to pay a premium for that new car feel? Good on you. That's what it's all about. Nothing smells finer than NEW (coming from a guy who has had many new cars in his life). You don't like the idea of depreciation and buy a used car in good condition? Good on you. That's what I did just this past September: a 2000 cab with only 5000 miles that was brand new looking. It's not a rich man poor man thing. Many guys with lower incomes must have that NEW smell because it's what they are working for. Why the hell else are we working so hard? And, on the contrary, many fabulously wealthy guys go USED because they like a good value. So, work hard. Drive harder. Live baby, live.

Depreciation? I bought my 996 new in 1999 for about $72k. Seven years later it's worth $75k. Maybe $80K. I love these cars.

You forgot to total in all your mods... tsk, tsk.

Absolutely !!! I love buying new cars... But I have bought used... A 97 993 in 99 with 1800 miles on it... I think the reason these threads go on.. Is that EVERYONE knows that as an investment, these cars are bad/not investments... So you just live with the depreciation and have the newness of the car... Or let someone else pay a portion of the depreciation and buy used... Either way everyone gets what they want and we all wind up happy in the end...

Does depreciation bother me : no Would I prefer not to suffer it : you bet Does anything beat the smell of a new car : no Is that smell the world most expensive perfum: yes

Ahem.. some of us are in the US. Here capitalism is all about buying whatever you want, even though you CAN'T afford it. ;-) Keith

if you will never sell the car then it doesn't depreciate right? for some people buying new is worth a whole lot but i couldn't take the 30K depreciation hit. more money for MODS i couldn't care less if i was the 1st owner let alone the 5th but i do miss the new car smell is that woth 30K? don't think so . is it a collectors item? NO. as long as it is in tip top shape then you are good to go.

Trade often and the used market depreciation is not hard to take. Drive several great cars over 4 years instead of 1. Besides, filling out an order sheet or picking something close to what you want on a lot is easy, not much fun. Searching the net, various lots, going to look at and test drive cars, that's the fun. I think the thrill of the hunt is more the the thrill of owning the car over extended periods. I know most don't think like me, but I could be on Barry Meguires' show because, and my wife will attest, I'm Car Crazy. Bill

Wow, that's scary true...

Talking of which, can anyone point me to depreciation graphs of a variety of 996s? I saw them for other models and car makes, though I can't recall where I saw it (consumer reports?). What was interesting was that after some time the value of the Porsches eventually leveled out at a fairly high value, opposed to most other makes that suffer a 5 to 10 fold decrease in value. Porsche claims that 3/4 of the cars that they ever made are still on the road. The high value of P cars may also mean that owners find it worthwhile mainintaining them. Why put 5k into an old car that's only worth 3k?. The depreciation numbers of course do not include the cost of maintenance. Perhaps depreciation + maintenance costs may put P cars in the same boat?

of course 7 years later 75k isnt the same as 75k before, but i'm curious how you figure a 99 996 is worth 75k?

The mods perhaps.

I dont think this is a money thing, I understand why to buy used and I understand why one buys new, really it doesnt matter as long as you drive a Porsche...When I see one I dont think to myself .." hum I wounder if he bought new?" I dont like to think about the money i could loose, but my happiness is worth more them money,so if saving money makes one happy go for it, if spending your money maks one happy then go for it!

I can't imagine ever paying anywhere near 10% on anything! I got my '03 996 for 5.29%, and only because it went up from 4.49% after the december rate increase. Oh, and I would be interested in the valuation of the $75k '99 996. Makes my '03 sound like a hell of a deal.

if you don't sell it it will never depreciate. if you carry this notion forward and add/mod it then it only increases in amount spent. i spent 38K when i bought it and added 12K in mods so it's now worth 50K . it's like buying new for 70K and adding 10K in options so now it's worth 80K if you sell it it will only be worth as much as someone wants to pay for it so DON'T SELL IT

Opinions aside there are tools to quantify the cost of ownership. Give these a try http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...9/article.html From that New Car Ownership Used Car Ownership Lease Car Adjusted Total Adjusted Total Adjusted Total Cash out-of-pocket $32,388 $18,390 $32,140 Value of the car now owned $7,000 $2,000 $0 Adjusted cash out-of-pocket $25,388 $16,390 $32,140 Conclusions Now we see that leasing becomes the most expensive way to drive � in the long run. Here's how leasing compares to the two ownership scenarios: Leasing vs. Buying New � Using the figures presented in this article, it is $6,752 more to lease a new car over a five-year period, than it is to buy the same car outright. This breaks down to $1,350 more per year to lease rather than to buy a new car. Leasing vs. Buying Used � It is $15,750 more to lease a new car over a five-year period than it is to buy and operate a used car for the same amount of time. This is an additional yearly cost of $3,150. Buying Used vs. Buying New � Not surprisingly, it costs a lot less to buy and drive a used car over a five-year period than a new car. In this example, it is $8,998 less for five years or $1,799 less per year. The figures we've presented here indicate that buying a car � whether it is new or used � is more economical than leasing a car. However, some people might point out that, while driving a used car costs less, the pleasure of driving an older car is lower, too. To be fair, you can't put a dollar value on the fun of driving a new car. As we said before, the benefits of new/leased/used vehicles can be argued many different ways. The purpose of this article was to look at the numbers involved in typical examples and let the figures speak for themselves. According to this analysis, buying used is the least costly of ownership b/w buying new, leasing new and buying used. The assumptions in this model are that you keep buying new. Now if you keep driving your own car ( new or used) you win. Period. Thing is, most of us keep buying. Question- why do we buy new cars- answer either 1) Because they make them or 2 ) BECAUSE WE CAN. That simple. Depreciation issues aside the disproportionate amount of market value lost for the first one to two years for 7-14% of the cars useful lifespan ( assume noncollector car, daily driver 10-15 year reasonable use and 100-140K mile for todays cars). 3 years old- 54-60 % of value. BTW Porsche value ranked high but ask the 996 owners who traded or sold- it hurts. And the new buyers of these preowned cars- check the boards for engine failure. My only point is the market is smarter than we think. I bought a 1987 928 ten years ago for a bargain. Then the maintenance hit. There was a reason the car did not hold its value- the relative probability of needing expensive work devalued the car by a proportionate amount to the the likelihood of it happening multiplied by the buying publics perception of the likeliehood of it happening ( think audi 5000 acceleration issues- I owned three Audi coupes, never a hiccup). So check the article out. I think it is clear that buying used makes finacial sense but that doesn't have to rule our existence. But seriously don't kid yourself. The new car smell- very bloody expensive when bought at the dealer. Very inexpensive at the carwash. BBTW C4S first allocation NEW Cayenne S- Second model year New 2000 Range Rover Used. For Sale 2006 Range Rover Lease. For Her

BEST LOGIC EVER.

The figures we've presented here indicate that buying a car � whether it is new or used � is more economical than leasing a car. Scott - Thanks for posting the article. I agree that leasing is a much worse financial deal than buying for the vast majority of people, but of course there are exceptions. The biggest variable that the article doesn't address is the lost opportunity for the money outlayed for a car purchase. If I pay $100K for my 997, how much money could I have earned on that $100K in three years? To me buying a Porsche is a lot like buying an expensive bottle of wine. If a wine connoisseur pays $1K for a bottle of French wine, I don't think he's going to be concerned about how much each sip costs. And if he does, he's bought the wrong wine. The same applies to buying a Porsche. If you are concerned about price and value, a Toyota Camry is the car for you.

There are currently two cars similar to mine in Rennlist classifieds. Brian Baileys at $85k and some other 996 race car for $68. Brian's car is better in some ways. Mine is better in some ways. The 68k 996 isn't even close. Does this make my car worth $75k. Not until I sell it for that amount but I sure wish Brian luck. Mostly I was sort of poking fun at a thread on Porsches and money management. They don't belong in the same sentence. In my opinion, unless you have money to throw away, you shouldn't race, gamble or buy a sportscar. Just my opinion. Jim

Not completely true. There are measures that can objectively be used to price a 996 at a higher cost than a Camry. Handling. Power. Torque. Speed. Etc. Everyone values the cost of these objective measures in their own way. Clearly, MOST people buy Camrys and Accords (according to sales records). They do that because it IS more economical. But, Porsche has priced the market correctly for NEW cars because many people buy their cars, too. The NEW vs. USED debate is simply an argument over the uncertainty of what MIGHT have happened to the car while not under your control. For some people, this is a requirement; for others, it is not a big deal, particularly when factoring in the cost savings. Clearly, if everyone was completely satisfied that all used Porsches were babied during their prior life, then the price for the used car would be even higher. Now here's the interesting thing: While new Porsches do take a considerable hit in years one and two from depreciation (like all premium and luxury cars because these buys CAN afford to buy new; read, when you make $1,000,000/yr, then many don't care if the car is $50k or $100k?), what really distinguished Porsches is that their buyers are passionate. Used car depreciation from year 2 on is very modest. Indeed, I suspect that driving the car from year 3 to year 8 is probably cheaper than any other car (maintenance issues and RMS conflicts aside). The reason is because the car inspires PASSION instead of just UTILITY. And like Shakespeare almost said, "What price to be had for passion?" Pcar owners are an ornery and red-blooded bunch. If practicality were really an ISSUE, we'd be having this conversation in the Camry forum (seriously, while it's not my taste, those cars are inexpensive and bullet-proof). So getting back to the point, buying a Porsche is NOT throwing money away. Buying a Camry for most of us and living a life of NO excitement would be living a life wasted. As they say, you don't get a second chance to do it right. And before any of you go nuts and say that buying a Porsche at the expense of your kid's medicine is wrong, I know, I know...but still....

In response- the tools of analysis posted include both depreciation and future value of money adjustment. Opportunity cost of the purchase monies? Come on. That makes little fiscal sense. Assuming an unrealistic return TAXFREE you will not make up for the cost of the money on a lease. Because the minimum actual interest rate is closer to 8-10% check this link for the true interest rate of leases http://www.smartmoney.com/autos/leas...ory=ccinterest Assuming a purchase price of 81400, no down payment and 36 month term, the porsche calculator sums 1386/month for 36 month lease 12k miles per year. Calculated basic interest rate 6.9 % Net interest rate about 9%. POST TAX. I do agree that leasing with a dedection or leasing in general leaves one more liquid and provides a higher purchase price car at a lower monthly payment. All valid agruements in the choice debate but not fiscal arguments. Now about that wine. I'll take a case of La Tache Burgundy 1992 or earlier. Make it three. Because that's the difference between leasing/ buying used. So does the La Tache taste better at The French Laundry? No but it costs four times as much. Is their caviar and sake gratinee better than my wifes? Dunno . I concede that the wine experience may be enhanced by the food , elegant atmosphere and friends. I also concede that this enhancement may be worth the difference. That's personal choice of resource utlization. No one is right or wrong. Just their choice. So the two arguements: opportunity cost of money ( borrowing at a higher interest rate to make money with a hypothetical marginal beneift with the money you would have used) and the "I buy it to enjoy the experience "are at odds. One is for income opportunity driven and the other is hedonistic. I agree with the fine experience but that's was not the question posed. It was which is more costly. BTW the used car purchaser misses the experience of one to two years ownership on the front end. Buying new vgives you additionally, to large extent, the break in period. By the third year, we have the same wine. Only mine costs less.( In Pcars I bought new because I can but I won't buy an ordinary new car new any longer) In terms of money, racecars and gambling- You left out womanizing. And what does that leave? reading? surfing the internet? Just the facts. I mean why let the facts get in the way of a good opinion?

In response- the tools of analysis posted include both depreciation and future value of money adjustment. Opportunity cost of the purchase monies? Come on. That makes little fiscal sense. Assuming an unrealistic return TAXFREE you will not make up for the cost of the money on a lease. Because the minimum actual interest rate is closer to 8-10% check this link for the true interest rate of leases http://www.smartmoney.com/autos/lea...tory=ccinterest Scott - I am not a lease advocate and I have never leased a car. There are those who own businesses who make the case that leasing makes the most sense, since they are able to write off 100% of their leasing expenses. When the leasing monthly payments plus other leasing fees approach $50K for three years for a $80K car, I know there has to be a better way.

I've put over 25,000 miles on my 997s launch car now, and just for interest's sake, I asked my dealer what it would be worth on trade: $58,000.00. That's 42% depreciation in a year and a half since I bought it. At the end of the day, I would get the car you want with the options you want, and I would just drive it and enjoy it, whether used or new.

I wonder how much money he would give you if you just sold the car to him instead of a trade. More than likey a lot less.

Bought new. Paid cash. Never looked back. Love my car.

Thanks to all the new p-car buyers out there as well. Sometime other choices to be made with our hard earned and not so hard earned $$$ force a few of us to make more practical and economical (for us) decision in the p-car buying process. Its all an individual decision so that $5k - $50k spent by over and above or saved by one owner may be put to better use by another and vice versa. But what we all do love is the driving experience and our cars. So I say raise a class and give a cheer to the 996! https://rennlist.com/forums/newreply.php Cheers