Waterpump exploded or worst??

So as some of you know, I've been having a cold start stumble issue for a bit that I've been trying to diagnose. I came downstairs to plug the Durametric in so I could record some info to see if I could find the source. I found a little water behind the car...but it's been pouring rain here so I didn't think too much about it. I looked under the car and there was nothing dripping and I could see any signs of coolant loss...so I continued with my diagnosis. So I turn the car over, she starts, she stumbles...all the same stuff. Once the engine settles and the idle smoothes out I give a couple blips with the throttle. (I should note I kept the driver's door open the entire time.) Then I start to hear this rattle. I've never heard this rattle before. It's never made this noise since I've owned it. My first instinct would be shut it down, but I just installed new cats last weekend, so my first thought was one of the brackets wasn't tightened all the way. I grab my iphone and record a vid, trying to find the source of the rattle. http://vimeo.com/25622979 As I am recording, the sound starts to sound like a bearing in a paint can to me...and I immediately think of IMS and shut the car down. I have to go to work, so I get changed and come back down...to find a new puddle of water under the car and it's still dripping :\ http://vimeo.com/25623077 It looked very oily to me...the colour of motor oil. Problem is, this parking lot is filthy. It's very, very dirty. So some of the colour might just be the dust and dirt mixing with the pink colored coolant?! So off to work I go in my roommates car. This morning I run my Durametric (without engine running obviously) and record all my needed info before sending it to Porsche. No engine code, no faults. Then I jack the car up and have a closer look. I can't see anything coming from anywhere but the water pump housing...so I am hoping it's just the water pump impeller that shattered. I can't help shake the fear of intermix....or IMS. Which at this point I could not diagnose further without running the engine, which I'm not prepared to do. I checked the oil filler cap...the dipstick. Neither had anything but oil (my oil filler cap does smell of gas though...quite strong actually. http://vimeo.com/25623319 This car still have a year of CPO...so I'm going to call roadside service today. Would a failed waterpump be considered warranty work? Anyone know? Or do they consider it a "consumable" component? Anyone with either failed water pumps or intermix care to add their thoughts? Should I prepare for the worst or is Porsche going to just replace the water pump? While I'm on the subject of water pumps...is there a water pump available that doesn't use a plastic impeller? Thanks in advance for any help. sean

CPO will cover you. Dealers love it, they get paid full retail on the parts and 100% labor from Porsche. Some dealers will actually look for things that need fixed as it's easy money for them. GL

Yup, your CPO will cover the water pump and any other issues related to it. Have it flat-bedded to Norden and they should be able to see quickly whether it's only the water pump or something more serious. IMHO, it doesn't look like an IMSB failure; there would be a ton of oil on the ground...this looks more like dirty coolant. Either way you're covered with the CPO.

Keep us posted with what you fiind!

that cooanl looked a little dark, intermix can mix oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil or both..your oil looks clean, check the coolant tank. the noise = not good cameras CAN make things sound differant than reality but that is NOT a loose cat. - as stated you have CPO so there is No worries, go get your loaner car and tell them to call you when its fixed....

This is what my coolant looks like :/

clearly coolant on the right...clearly very dar color on the left...maybe dirt, maybe angle, maybe some other fluid, maybe mixed???

Yeah, that's what I thought...at first it looked like oil, but when I put my hand under it, the dripping seems to be bright pink. The colour on the left is what the coolant looks like in the tank. Is it possible my thermostat wasn't opening...at all...ever? So the coolant on one side is perfect and on the other it's the contaminated stuff when I had to mix with prestone? (before you say, there is no gelling issue with mixing the prestone I used with the Porsche coolant) I was having a coolant loss issue for a while until the dealer finally fixed it. During that time, I was adding prestone all-makes coolant to the resevoir. The dealer said this stuff was ok, but it did change the coolant color when it was mixed. That is almost what it looks like to me. SIGH....doesn't matter now, she's on a flatbead to the dealer...I'll find out soon enough :| sean

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Sounds to me like the impeller broke of and is getting swirled around over and over again. I don't know why the coolant would start to leak out of your Tstat housing though, unless it is purely coincidental.

sigh...I HATE seeing her like this..... http://vimeo.com/25630463

well from the last video the coolant didnt seem to be leaking (sorry, trying to lighten the spirit) the water pump is fairly close too the thermostat right? So if the water pump is leaking then maybe its just dripping down onto the T-stat housing and then off... either way the noise in the video and the color of the fluid are a little worrysome..but having CPO is comforting today for sure

Hi Sean - coolant looks pretty dirty, mine is still "hot pink". If you've got CPO, don't sweat it too much, **** happens.

Good luck man, hope it's not serious, or if it is the CPO handles all of it.

I'm guessing it's the waterpump. I just did mine this weekend after a very faint noise and eventual leakage from that area. It's easy to localize the coolant to the pump if that's the case. I had multiple chips on the impellers but hopefully the new metal impellers will prevent that in the future. I put in a new waterpump, 160F thermostat and a center radiator...running nice and cool... I don't think that pictures tells you much about the coolant. It always looks like crap in an old reservoir. Pull a sample and put it in a clean glass. Mine used to look like dirty dishwater in the tank, I'd put it in a glass vial and it was clean and green! -Shawn

CPO=relax It's after the CPO expires....that's when you should worry. If the impeller did get hammered, make sure they flush the impeller pieces out of the engine.

I'm not a mechanic, but I do stay at a Microtel. I would predict it's either (1) water pump or (2)coolant tank. Both will go eventually and both cost about the same to fix $500-700 including labor. My car has 106,000 and both have been replaced. It's a possibly a DYI, if you "search".

No offense here, but I've heard of these "metal impellers" and I'm a bit of a skeptic. I've read a few horror stories of them exploding in a short amount of time. Who would rather have metal in their cooling passages than plastic? Anyways, perhaps I'm not educated enough and they are putting metal impellers in now.

I'm not sure what you don't believe, that the impellers are metal or that they're durable? I can confirm that they are definitely metal (at least the one I installed this weekend). I can't comment on durability, but I don't see any reason to be concerned about the use of metal instead of plastic. -Shawn

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Is stock plastic or metal?

The stock unit I replaced had plastic impellers. The stock unit I replaced it with (996-106-011-55) had metal impellers. -Shawn

not sure which I would rather have..if the bearing fails the plastic one explodes..the metalone eats away at the aluminum in the block.....I suppose small fragmants are better than larger (blocking water passage) ones

My .02 worth, first a Big Thanks for this site, I did my water-pump this weekend also and felt very confident after searching all the great references on this forum. The new pump I got from Suncoast (another story), a factory pump in a factory box, had a plastic impeller on it. I'm at work so don't have the part number. Don't know that one type of debris in the cooling system is preferred over another. I plan on doing a really good & complete flush on the system this coming weekend, though there was no visible damage to the pump I took out, other than what I did to it getting it out! I did not drive the car once I saw the first hint of a leak, which I think was a very good idea (again thanks to this forum for the advice). Now for something I don't understand, why was the cut-out in the rear engine carrier not enlarged about 1/2" so you could get a straight run at that one particular bolt? What a PITA! I was considering reaching for the die-grinder and doing what Porsche should have done. Even the wife tried it as she thought the smaller hand might help, she is very proud that she "helped" work on the 911! Didn't have the budget for the center radiator at the moment, but I'm now solid in the '8' and '0' of 180 even in South Carolina hundred degree heat & 90% humidity.

my coolant tank was replaced last November. The cap was replaced in Feb. THe right rad and some bypass valve have been replaced in the past 6 months. I've had my share of coolant related issues. living where the temp drops to -45 means I have to be prepared to deal with such issues. I asked the question(s) on here before I even bought the car whether it could handle such low temperatures. I was assured it could. Anyway...the dealer finally received the car yesterday afternoon. They are taking a look at her today. So hopefully by this afternoon, I'll know what the problem is. I'll update when I know. As for the whole metal/versus plastic....remember that this plastic is VERY hard and can do substantial damage to other engine parts. It if shattered, I would think you could potentially get hundreds of minute pieces flowing through the whole engine, possibly blocking oil passages. Almost impossible to find them all. With a metal impeller....I would think (I'm no engineer) that a failure would lead to much fewer "tiny" particles and more large pieces that would cause the failure to be immediately known rip through coolant hose, etc) Plus, tiny metal particles can be captured by a magnetic oil drain plug....plastic will circulate forever sean

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Just curious, did you get this on ebay? FWIW genuine 996-106-011-55 is "PLASTIC" (I just did one). Not to rain on anyone's parade here: http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/32916-deutsche-parts-water-pump-failed-2-months/ http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/35229-water-pump-recommendations/ (there's more BTW)

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All the best hopes Sean for the car. If you had metal H20 pump impeller parts in your oil pan, I think you would have MUCH bigger issues than just the water pump. Like perhaps a thrown rod along with a busted H20 pump. Read the previous thread and a link over on renntech regarding the fabled "metal" impeller.

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I wonder if you blew an expansion plug and that's the source of the leaking fluid or intermix?

The oem water pump is plastic for a reason. I replaced my pump about 2 months ago. the plastic is flexibel durable and pretty strong. The impeller doesn't sit very far in the engine casting because there isn't any room. It seems that Porsche built them so that if they did fail, you would only have plastic pieces floating in the system (and hopefully for not very long as it would make a substantial noise when the bearing fails). With a metal impeller, if the bearing fails it is flaking off pieces of the block as well as potentially breaking up the metal impeller. As someone mentioned, What's your flavor? Plastic or steel and aluminum?

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Say what? metal from the water pump impeller would be captured by the magnetic OIL drain plug? If that happened, it's time to throw out the engine.

LOL....I hit POST MESSAGE and my phone rings from the dealer. They say I need a new water pump. That's all. They haven't ripped it out yet...as they won't until the new part arrive...so I won't rest easy until they get the new one in and test everything.... sean

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LOL...see, I'm hung over, tired and NOT thinking clearly =P

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gotcha!

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Sounds like good news. Keep the faith, brotha! ...and keep us posted- we love a happy ending.

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How long did it take you? Mine will be off CPO in November and would like to do this if it doesn't fail by then. How difficult compared to a suspension swap?

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I spent the better of the day with it, but not non-stop, I was doing other things, built a set of ramps, cleaned a lot in the engine bay, couple of things around the house when my back needed a break, that sort of thing. I'd say around 4 hours on the pump itself for me. The suspension swap will come up for me as soon as I source my parts.

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Haven't swapped a suspension in quite some time. It did take the better part of a day but would be much quicker the 2nd time around. I replaced the water pump and I replaced the thermostat with the lower temp one from LN. I also replaced one small coolant hose that sits close to the ground at the passenger side rear of the car. No matter what anyone tells you, the water pump comes out the bottom. Make sure the impeller on the old one is intact or you need to locate the peices. Be extra careful putting the new pump in so you don't kill the new impeller. Take a look at the youtube video that someone put together. it is pretty good. The only thing about the video that is absolutely crazy is the dramatic use of sealant. My god this guy uses a 1/2 a tube of RTV blue gasket sealant. I used the metal gasket that came with the pump. I didn't use any sealant and I have no leaks. Can runs great, warms up just like it did prior to the new stat, and the temp always stays just to the left of the "0" in "180"

What is all of this non sense talk about "exploding" water pumps... I have only seen one water pump break apart and that was on a honda (150k on the clock). I just replaced my waterpump for preventative purposes and my pump (plastic) with over 100k was perfectly fine. There was minor play in the bearing and that was it.

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Nope, this was a factory part from Sunset Porsche. -S.

So they replaced the water pump. Then they replaced the serpentine belt for me (for free) saying it showed signs of wear and should be replaced at 120,000Kms anyway. (I'm at 119,948) They said everything runs perfect now. So I will see if the cold stumble is gone as they say. I pick her up on Saturday. If I don't find any issues, this will be my last update. sean

I assume they didn't find pieces of the plastic impeller broken off? Would be worth double checking....a good way to selectively overheat/warp portions of the heads.

Hopefully you're all set from here on out! Good luck. Pilot, what you would you suggest he do if he did have particles missing? I would expect the radiators to do a pretty good job of filtering small pieces of plastic out of the stream. I'm not familiar with any good ways to back-flush the system, are you? S.

Great news!

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I'm real interested in doing this if anyone has any thoughts, TIA

I had my water pump changed yesterday, as a small leak was detected and I just thought it best to get it done immediately. Changed thermostat, coolant and poly-rib serpentine belt as well. I'm glad you issues was solved.

Ed/Ivangene would know more about backflushing techniques than I. Raby has gone on about waterpumps clogging cooling passages & warping heads. If it truely is just particles, I (personally) wouldn't worry. If you see real chips missing from the impeller blades....I'd be more concerned.