996

So my neighbor is interested in buying a 911 and asked me about the 996 and I told him I would do some research for him. So any advice? Like any car what years to avoid etc? i know there was certain issues with teh early 996 models. Was the fix from Porsche successful or just a cover up and better having the work done at a reputable shop? Love to hear opinions and advice.

Do a search, there are literally thousands of posts on this subject.

- anyone else while I am up ?

Yes I see lots of issues posted etc, but nothing really on a firm advice etc on what years to avoid. Figure someone could be nice enough to point me in the right direction.

there are many reasons to avoid a car and what one peron considers a headache, or a fight not worth fighting, another considers an opportunity or a challenge. I would buy an early car (99' 00') and avoid the later cars and most people on here would think I am nuts, excet those how have early ones. avoid cars with soft tops, glass tops, too many electric gismos, repainted anything except maybe the nose, any accident history at all !, new or old motors, avoid automatics and AWD cars unless you like a fat *** and can live with all the added weight and expense of repairs, try to find a car without a sunroof and with limited slip diff, avoid PSM, get a 3 spoke wheel and SSK, Litronics are a plus... unless you only drive in the daytime. If you find a car the owner has replaced the IMS that would be a plus, new clutch, maybe new brakes, avois US spec suspension and grey cars, those are the worst.... obviously I am being a smart a$$ - trust me all the guys here have gone over and over and over thiis exact same thread a 100 times or more.....reading is the best advise and post what cars he finds, we will pick them apart in ways he never thought of.... check out Tim's car.... best one for sale right now!!! https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ng-the-4s.html

Tim's car is outstanding. The combination of color and options will be very hard to match.

what is his price range, weekend car, track, dd, etc.... you cant just ask what 996 should I get.

OK it's agreed... he should buy Tim's car...... NEXT

What 996 should I get?

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a Porsche truck.... oh wait.

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Only an idiot would buy one of those... oh... wait

Ok well thanks for the advice.

If you don't like your neighbor so much, tell him/her to become a Paid Rennlist Member and check the classfieds. Plenty of great 996's for sale here.

I told him about rennlist just figure I would do some research for him. When I was looking I was thinking about 996, but decided to get a 964. I guess you guys really don't like your cars...

Actauuly, What you want is us to do your research. If you search you can do it and read all thats been posted in the hundreds of threads just like this one.

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A few guys are selling to get some quick cash, others are looking for a change to something newer. Sad thing is, that the earlier 997, for all it's "purer" 911 looks, has just as many issues, though of a different nature than the 996's. ( electrical, interior, creaks, groans, etc). I imagine that those owners will start dumping their 997's for a chance to move up to 09+ 997's or the upcoming 991. the bargains are out there for 996's no doubt, but 997's will be right behind them. It does depend on your neighbor's price range and set aside a few thou extra for mods, upgrades, routine maintenance. Also, finding a good indi to do some work he wont' try himself.

I know there is 1000's of threads regarding do i have an IMS issue blah blah, but in basically a paragraph I could give you the breakdown of the 964 and what years had differences and what to look for. So instead of helping a fellow pcar owner you write multiple posts stating the same thing.

[QUOTE=wellcraft290;8069634]I told him about rennlist just figure I would do some research for him. When I was looking I was thinking about 996, but decided to get a 964. I guess you guys really don't like your cars...[/ QUOTE] I actually love my car, more then many things actually. I suggest you use the search feature like many have mentioned, and make a list of all the known issues with the car. Then if Ned Flanders is still interested, he should start shopping the market. Some people might not be willing to handle a car like this... I sure am!

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The 996 line up has many more combinations than what 964 was offered so your above ignorant generalization makes you well.... You also said that you were looking at 996s before so what happened? Did you forget? Stupid questions yield stupid answers.

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Jesus! Enough already. If you can't say something nice... Let me try: The 996 Carrera breaks down into two generations: 98-01 3.4 liter cars and 02-04 3.6 liter cars. There are coupes, cabriolets, a targa model with a oversize glass moonroof (that seems prone to problems), and a widebody all wheel drive model - the C4S. All wheel drive was also available in the first generation's C4. The easiest way to differentiate the generations is the headlights, with the 02 and later cars adopting the 996 turbo headlights over the earlier generation's more Boxster-style. Both generations are fast, powerful and reliable - simply put they are much more capable than the skill set of most drivers. There are some rear main seal leak issues (this is a Porsche after all...), but these are easily solved and later seals seem to work better. Some percentage of 996s (and 997s as well) have experienced a failure of the intermediate shaft (IMS). How many or what percentage is a matter of much discussion and interest around here - and Porsche ain't saying. This failure is catastrophic and requires an engine replacement that costs well north of $10k. With that in mind an aftermarket warranty is not a bad idea as part of a purchase. Prices in general are in decline, with very nice later 3.6 models selling below $30k. This decline in value seems to be from a combination of the overall poor economy, the large production numbers of the series, and possibly to concerns over RMS/IMS issues. No way to really know, but the bottom line is that these are great cars at very good prices. As with any Porsche, you have to do your research, get a good pre-purchase inspection, and perhaps most importantly recognize that these are not Toyotas. Simply put, they can be expensive to maintain and repair. That said, I spend significantly less money keeping my 996 on the road than I did my previous Porsche, a 968. There, done. Not too painful.

Ralph gave you a real nice summary of the cars and the major issues. The old adage is to buy the newest and best car you can afford. I think that this bears out in any car. Because Porsches are so technical, it is important to know as much as you can about the car's history. In my mind, I would also like to see a car with fewer owners. When I looked for mine, I found many cars that were 5 - 10 years old with 4 or 5 owners. To me, that doesn't bode well for the vehicle. From what I read in my research, these cars require less maintenance than the cars that came before. In short, you don't need to have the valves adjusted every 5,000 miles like you will on your 964 (unless you have a later one). The maintenance cycle has gone up to 15,000, with the exception of oil changes. And a discussion of Oil and oil changes is another whole topic for discussion. The IMS issues make people shake in their boots, because an IMS failure means a new engine. You can find people who are scared of the issue, people who think that it's overblown, and those poor individuals who have faced the failure personally. Imagine buying a $35,000 car, and then within a year losing the engine to an IMS failure, and needing to spend $15,000 more on an engine!!! But I have talked to two large independent shops that work on 996's, and one said that only 3% of the 996's that he serviced had this problem. My mechanic said that he has only seen 1 IMS failure among his customers. The bad thing is that the people with the knowledge - Porsche, aren't talking. I have driven a 964. Nice car, but I think that ALL Porsches are nice cars. The 996 is much more refined than a 964. It is a LOT more powerful. At full acceleration, you will be pushed back hard into your seat, and the passengers will start to giggle. That doesn't happen with a 964. If you live in a metropolitan area, there will be lots of 964, 993, 996's for sale. Take the time to drive a couple of examples of each. You will see how dramatically they differ. THEN you can make up your mind. If you are dismissing a 996 in the one day since you made your first post on this, you are making a rush to judgment, and that will not serve you or your friend. Then just take a little time and read the sticky on this board on IMS RMS issues. Read a variety of posts on Why to buy a 996. They're out there. They just take a few minutes of scrolling through the posts to find them. It will be fun reading - you'll be surprised at how much you will learn. Also, when you read how the members of this board bitch and moan about their 996's, remember this: You can complain all you want about your own relatives, just wait till someone else says something -- NOT ACCEPTABLE. The same is true of cars. If everyone that posts here hated their cars - they would sell them and buy something else. But they haven't and they don't. Why not??? You take a guess at this rhetorical question. And, if you have a question that you couldn't get an answer to - post it, and you'll get some answers. But you started off on the wrong foot by asking this crowd of experienced 996 owners - "What can you tell me about 996's?" And one more thing - - - - - If you get emotional about a car, and buy it out of emotion without a thorough PPI being done by an independent mechanic, you will get what you deserve!! larry

rpm thank you and that is what I was looking for perfect. chsu I am sorry but i would say your wrong with more combinations on a 996 then a 964. I will not call you ignorant or stupid, but cleary say your wrong. Could there be one or two more models in either way yes but you forget the 964 had c2 c4 c4 widebody 1989 c4 different awd systems rs cup turbo turbo 3.3 turbo 3.6 manual tiptronic cabs and wide body cabs and I am probably forgetting a few, but still for the most part the engines were the same minus some had gaskets and others did not in the 964, turbos different capacities etc. Seems pretty similar to me in model variations between a 996 and 964 I did look at the 996 briefly, but fell in love with the looks of the 964 and had many people warn me of the 996. i don'[t want to do the same to my neighbor but rather give him more facts and not be scared of a 996 because of rumors like I was. I don't understand why it was a stupid questions? because any car made was made in a series of years with minor changes and people look for certain years for a reason and that is what i am trying to find out.

Every car has its own issues. Check the price on rebuilding 964 top ends or if the awd system has issues. As far as the 996 having more models. The only ones I see that 964 does not have are: 2 diff gens of gt3, 2 different gens of gt2, 1 gen gt3rs, 2 diff gens of c2, c4, x51 package cars, anniversary edition cars and targas. I do however love 964's and will buy a turbo in the next few years.

Oh B S This is silly, to the op, drop by the 964 forum aand say " my buddy wants to buy a 964, tell me what things to avoid" and see how they react. You have 1000+ posts and should know that question only yields responses like you got. Then state " I guess you guys don't like your cars, iwe will be buying a 9xx" What the hell is that? Total b s - a one day thread where you decide against a car due to some people flaming you for not using the search button to help ole' Ned Flanders out

Actually you will find if you ask the same question on the 964 board you will get valid answers and opinions etc. I suggest you try it and see how helpful that group would be to you. I never said i will buy a 964 because I already own one, but was joking because one post said many for sale etc so that is why i said guess you guys don't like your cars. I am not against the 996 or decided against the 996 from this thread, but as I said I didn't buy one because I chose the 964 for looks not a slam against a 996. Again this is for my neighbor yes Ned. If I wanted a 996 i would buy one, but I don't want one because I am happy with my pcar. Ohdavey i agree every car has their issues, but some years have more because of mid model updates etc. and As I said I was looking for more basic 996 and I also said maybe the 996 or 964 had more or less models, but there is a lot of 964 models as well with specialty years etc that I think you can agree with.

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Porsche would never just offer the same numbers of variations or their sales volume would not grow. That is just simple business. 996s covers all of the above in one form or another. Turbos can be had with a regular engine and X50 option. NAs can also be purchased with a X50 engine option. Not to mention GT3 and GT3 RSs. The fact that X50 engine can be added as an option creates a complete new line of car models. There are targa which is available in both 996 and 964. The reason for many 996s for sale is simple math. over 170K 996s were produced. around 70K 993s were produced. 964s had a lower production than 993s. I researched 964s, 993s and 996s before making my buying decision. I only regret not having enough money/budget, parking space and time to get one of each.

I got a 2002 because I like the looks of the MK2 headlights as they are less Boxterly. Also, it is my understanding that the MK1 cabs had the 3.4L and I needed the extra .2L to compensate for my various failings as human being. Also, having the glove box is awesome!

The earlier 996's mk1 have a few less trinkets than the mk2's. As far as which ones are more likely to have IMS failure its anyones guess. The only people with real data on the subject is Porsche and their mouths are shut. I do know that d chunk is said to be more common on the 3.4 cars.

Only real issues I have seen (I did my research before buying mine) are: 1) RMS leaking (mine was replaced before I got the car) 2) IMS - so far, so good, but I'm keeping an eye on mine I'm sure there are a number of other issues for the 996's, but I've been very happy with mine. Bought it 5 years old (It's a 2000) and have put about 40k miles on it (from 34k-74k now - it's a daily driver). Those two issues are the minimum I would look out for. But that's just me.

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sorry I am just in a mood.... anyhow yes, the MKi's have less stuff... 99' had cable throttle too (that was the last year of that IIRC) early cars (real early ones) had cast piston rings which tend to loose tension over time. not sure what year they swicthed obviously variocam plus is a big differance as well as the 3.4's are a 5 chain motor and 3.6 are a 3 chain motor. There has been some intersting developemnts made puttinig 3.6 motors in a 3.4 car and using an MSD trigger to hit the vario can actuator, J.R. I believe setup a vairo cam to run off his heated seat switch just for fun and research early cars had less interior color (console and other pieces were charcoal color desite the rest of the interior being "seat" color" I didnt read all the posts and I am sure some are very good... I just was in a mood and being a little naughty this a.m. good luck on the search, I dont think you will find a better group of people than on the 996 board - aside from the trolls like me

Thank you all in the end. Sorry if I annoyed any of you, but i did ask the question with the best intentions not to bash the 996 like many have and will because of issues. All models have them and that is why there have been improvements even mid model years. Thank you again and now I have some information to pass along. Good luck to all of you and stop by the 964 forum and brag on the really hot days how your a/c works better lol

There was a 964 C4 widebody?? Really?

Tell him to get a GT2 or GT3 and he wont regret anything.

Jasper yes in 1994 coupe and roadster widebody. Only one year for teh NA wide body and don't forget the speedsters, two versions of that car. no hard feelings.

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Was the speedster available as a C4 ? No hard feelings. I just kind of never really liked the 964 cars, although my appreciation for them has grown a bit in recent years. I think at the outset somebody should have said that the MkII cars (2002 - 2004) incorporated a number of improvements over the MkI (1999-2001) cars which many people consider worthwhile enough to pop another $5K on. You did not however provide *nearly* enough information about your "friend" to allow for a concise answer. Chief among these is the question of how much he wants to spend and how much work he will do on his own versus writing cheques to have others do the work. Ask a silly question.....

Having owned both, I prefer the MKII due to the many improvements, and think the premium in price is worth it. That said, MKIs are great cars also, and a terrific value.

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At some point, I will get one of these and supercharge it... http://www.holtmotorsports.com/inventory.php?vin=94BLWB

Well without going with a 996 turbo I dd not see reason to mention price points because from what i have seen the 996 depending on year etc can be had from the mid teens to high 20's. So felt these are all pretty much in the same price range. Jasper no I don't believe the speedster came in a C4 but there was a 89 speedster and 94 speedster I believe those were the years.

Somewhat sad and disappointing to see some of the replies in this thread, especially by the moderator.

This sub-form is the most active and well informed on 996s I have ever come across. Sadly, this topic has been beaten to death 50 million times over which the OP could easily have searched and ended up with hours of reading material. Instead, he took the road well traveled and has this thread to show for it. The outcome would be very different if OP even showed that he at least did some homework.

Well I am the OP and do know some of the 996 etc, but as time goes on things change in what is found and repairs etc. there is lots of information here and probably lots of bogus reports because if were tru noone would buy a 996 that is why i asked here. sorry for asking and good luck to you all.

Supposedly end of 2004-2005( 997) was a good year.

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I'd like to know how you're doing that.

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There is no need for some of the comments on this post (bad moods or not)- if wellcraft didnt provide enough information why not just ask him rather than berate him?

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I agree, the arrogance here at times is very rude.

re-thinking

re-thinking

These cars have been around for a while now, the search tool pretty much covers all the questions a newbie will have.... It's pretty simple. You search for the answers you want, and then if you can't find them, you post the question. Not the other way around. But it's all good, we all have Porsche's, and that's what counts!

Topaz and Ivan... I don't disagree with your sentiments. The OP could have done as you said, but did not. But I wonder why you then choose to berate rather than just pass the thread by. The reason I am sensitive to this issue is my experience with the 968 boards, both Rennlist and a seperate site. Honest disagreements eventually turned to outright hostility and tore apart a small enthusiast community. Today there are at least 3 seperate boards and some very sharp people who won't talk to some other very sharp people. It was just stupid and really confused and put off visitors. As a Rennlist member going back nearly 10 years I continually hope that the honest disagreements and opinions here don't ruin a robust and helpful community. Our task should be to support potential new owners in a welcoming manner, even those that fail to fully search. Is that really so hard?

OK - point taken, and agreed. I want RL to be open and fun too. I have never tried to be rude (even on this thread) and I did say I was sorry to the OP.

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but the rudeness started with this comment IMO - I do not think he was blasted until AFTER that... where is that dead horse smiley