Cheap Horsepower Add-On Purchase??

So, I realize that there are lots of mods that I can do to my 996, some cosmetic and some mechanical. I have a 2004 NA 996 Targa. First let me say that I love the car, but in following the action on this board, some things have come to light, and I wonder how realistic it is. I guess that no matter how fast a car is, you tend to acclimate to it fairly quickly. In spite of the fact that my 996 is very quick, the ability to add inexpensive horsepower is something that I expect I will always be lusting over. There have been threads here on the IPD Intake Plenum, and a variety of threads on various muffler systems. So, let's take this to a "realistic" conclusion. If I buy: Fabspeed Muffler - gain 8 - 12 HP for $1,095 IPD Intake Plenum - gain 24 HP for $895 It seems that I can get an increase of 32 - 36 HP for less than $2,000. If I add the BB Muffler system instead of Fabspeed, with both the header and muffler, I can get a gain of 23 HP for the BB Muffler and Header, at a cost of $2,100 and $895 for the IPD Plenum, I'm now up 47 HP for less than $3,000. That's more HP than I'd have gotten with the X51 Power Package that's on the 40th anniv version for a LOT LESS!! For a car with 320 HP to get a 47 HP boost (15%) for less than $3,000, which can be done in stages, I mean, that sounds pretty good. That would certainly be an increase that the butt dyno would easily identify. Is this too good to be true? Are these numbers wishful thinking and marketing hype? It would be a shame to spend $3 grand expecting to get a really big kick, and get only a whimper. What do you guys think??? larry

Is it April fool's day?

I went down this road and threw a lot of money at my car. The best mods are suspension, Short shift and muffler for sound. That would transform the car's handling and make it feel faster by being better connected. Invest in a super charger if you want a faster car later.

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Here's a few ugly truths about bolt-ons for your Porsche (and I speak as someone who has several): Power claims are always peak power claims only, and aren't necessarily reproducible anyway. Besides, horsepower matters when all out speed is the goal. For these cars, that's going to be a rare occasion for most of us. You can't add gains together. Some mods will cost you some other kind of performance for the benefit of a higher peak horsepower number. The classic example is exhaust, where eliminating too much back pressure results in horsepower gains, but torque losses. Only a real dyno with a real tuner can get real value out of mods, and that's by trial and error and assuming he can and knows how to tune the ECU too. That cost, added to the cost of the mods, changes the math radically. Otherwise, you're shooting in the dark unless you're dealing with an honest indie who races what he builds and has experience with the same car you drive. It is possible for a mod to actually reduce engine output. No single engine mod will impress you as much as driving your car in city traffic for a couple of weeks and then taking it out and thrashing it for an hour or two. The adaptive ECUs in these cars aren't subtle. Those are truths. Now, here's some unsolicited advice: mod for fun, mod to personalize, but don't mod for numbers. And whatever you do, don't trot your numbers out in here. I've seen these guys tear a dyno sheet to shreds like hyenas on a zebra, never mind manufacturer claims. It just doesn't matter. Build your car so you love it, and screw the bragging rights.

inexpensive horsepower and naturally aspirated generally don't go together

Best performance mod is high performance muffler bearings. Get blinker fluid while you're at it.

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Hey don't steer him the wrong way. Everyone knows muffler bearings don't work unless you open the whole exhaust with the digital racing cats and the titanium nuts for the headers.

Those piston return springs worked best for me !

if you want the car to be faster for cheap, take weight out of it.

If you buy 10 items that promise 6 horsepower each, you will not get a 60 horsepower increase. The sad reality is that you may be lucky if you actually get 6 more total. Even worse is that you could end up with less than what you started with. Seriously, the cheapest power increase for you is to sell your car and buy an '02 or '03 TT. If this doesn't appeal to you, learn to drive what you have. I say this in all seriousness. I'd bet if very few here can drive their stock car to its full potential.

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+1, add lightness.

Viking - yeah, piston return springs are a very good mod, but you have to dismantle the engine. Muffler bearing are a DIY in less than an hour. I got the same power increase as a Fabspeed muffler+Cold Air Intake as measured on the dyno and the bearings were way less expensive!

Good luck finding whatever makes you happy. Could always watch the porsche website for race cars to make street legal or use the engine and suspension to swap out parts from.

Tough crowd here...but realistic answers to your question. For inexpensive mods for the street, add a H&R rear sway bar, exhaust for sound (buy used), and maybe a shifter mod if that's to your liking. After that, go to a full suspension (ROW or coilover). If this fails, then tt like someone else mentioned.

Yeah, sorry for the asinine comments but in all honesty making the car lighter is the way to go. Then suspension.

Thanks, I appreciate the honest information and thoughts (like Bruce's) and the sense of humor from the others. It would seem to me that the Piston Return Springs provide the greatest return for dollar invested. Thanks. larry

are you tracking the car? If not, going to the track is the best performance upgrade you can make if you are then you know suspension tires and more track time are all you need, unless you are getting 100% out of it now.... and if you are (or think you might be) have your instructor drive your cars a couple laps....my guess is you will find the lack of performance is related to the ability of the driver please I am not trying to offend you and for all i know you are the worlds best driver.... but this has been good advise for all those who only think they are the worlds best - or maybe know they are not

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I don�t believe gaining more driving experience will help the OP�s car go faster from say 30-60 mph and I believe that was his intended goal for starting this thread. I�d be willing to bet that the OP has the driving talent to push the gas pedal to the floor and hold the steering wheel straight while the car accelerates. Why is it that whenever someone asks a question about making his car quicker someone feels the need to chime in with a condescending �tighten the nut behind the wheel� reply? Certainly if the OP�s objective is to shave seconds(or tenths of a second) off of his track times then this advice is great. However, I think his real objective, and that of most people who post these types of questions, is to simply experience a little more oomph from the car in a relatively straight line on the street. To the OP: I would agree with those who have suggested that throwing thousands at mods will probably leave you disappointed. If you really require more power consider paying the extra for a 996 Turbo although I suspect that car would also leave you wanting more in time. After all, why are so many 996 Turbos modified?

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It�s funny you mention this. Lately, I�ve been driving the car very conservatively for DD duties and I sometimes wonder if the ECU has gone into granny mode. Unfortunately, I have not had the time recently to take the car on any �fun� runs. How long do you really need to whip the car before it realizes that you mean business again and adjusts the ECU accordingly?

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This is an unscientifically observed answer, but my experience has been 1-2 hours, with some WOT acceleration runs and some sustained highway speed.

I would also say the best cheapest upgrade would be buying a turbo. On the fun runs out here, I'll hang with the turbos, and even a RUF until that damn straight away where they just creep away while I'm yeling at my pedal. But I would add that I never fall behind since the corners are my friends.

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because it is the one true constant in the equation - worse then a powerful car driving fast on public roads is a powerful car going faster on public roads with an incapable driver. Often times people find out after becoming enlightened at the track that some of the activity that they did on public roads haunts their memories knowing what "could have happened" when they "thought" they knew how to control the car in a straight line with the gas pedal mashed to the floor....at some point they may have had to turn to avoid something ect ect... I wont claim the OP is incapable, but unless you have ridden with a truly capable driver, only you can answer your own evaluation. That�s why Lastly lots of people can get their car to go faster, but find out at the track that the car is faster than they thought.

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That's a real Porsche point of view if I ever heard one. The brand's history of winning races with its production based cars has always been based on being able to brake later into corners, get on the power sooner coming out of them, carry less weight and break down less often. It's never first and foremost been about power.

nothing wrong with feel good mods.... if it make you feel good. Exhaust note for one is a mandatory mod even though you wont really feel the performance... if you have a hole burning in your pocket and is just a toy... then do it!

i agree, mods are great and making your car personal is a great way to enjoy your experience. I love mods and do as many as the pocket book will allow...sound is a big one, it should sound right, handle right, break right and accellerate right.... nothing wrong with wanting more....I wont rain on the parade any more

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Ed, we all know you will be the first person to try mods. However, you have way more experience than when you got your 996.... and are driving your car the way it was meant to be driven. Nothing wrong with the sound of reason when it comes to the root of why we enjoy our cars... in the end, it always boils down to the driver....

Thanks Ferd... I just see a lot of cars not being driven to thier potential and alot of drivers who can benefit from getting out at the track with an instructor. Last month I was handed my a$$ at the track and came home with the biggest slice of humble pie. Adding more HP is NOT what I need to be faster. I didnt want to be a nagging Mom, just point out that we all know adding HP to a 996 is never cheap and in that the vast majority of drivers would never even know if they had an additional 30 HP or not. But a nice exhaust is a huge smile maker

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You just can�t resist banging this drum can you? I totally agree that track time and greater driving experience would benefit all Pcar owners, however most owners have little or no interest in tracking their car. Of those who do have an interest, most will never track their car because of fear of bodily injury, insurance trouble, angry spouses, money, etc. Telling them to go to the track is like telling Obama to go to Rush Limbaugh�s house for Thanksgiving dinner. It�s not going to happen. You should save your energy for the track. Again, most people that ask these questions are mainly concerned with straight line acceleration on public roads. Newer Pcars in stock form handle and brake well enough for them, what they are really looking for is more punch when they hit the go pedal. I may be wrong but I think these people can handle flooring the throttle and steering the car properly for short bursts of acceleration on the road. Should all high performance car owners be required to pass a high performance drivers ed. course on track before being able to drive their cars on public roads? You make it sound as though most drivers of fast cars on the road are ticking time bombs ready to smash into anything in sight. Eagerly awaiting your response where you tell us to get some more track experience to make our cars go faster.

huh - well that sure put me in my place. I concede - this argument convinced me: "I may be wrong but I think these people can handle flooring the throttle and steering the car properly for short bursts of acceleration on the road" - gosh, having added skills from professional training would NOT help in this case and RE: this statement: "Should all high performance car owners be required to pass a high performance drivers ed. course on track before being able to drive their cars on public roads? No, all drivers of ALL CARS should have to pass more rigorous training before being handed a license, but that is my opinion.. we have drivers putt around on residential streets for 20 minutes and over 1/2 that time is spent parking, then hand them a license to drive a car at 70 mph??? Nothing in the skills test says the driver can handle a car at speed and there are LOTS of drivers who cannot handle the speed of 60-70 mph, hence the way they drive on the freeways. That�s another battle though. "You make it sound as though most drivers of fast cars on the road are ticking time bombs ready to smash into anything in sight" - yep, that's pretty much what I said Look the OP asked what "cheap add-on" horsepower was available, and I suggested putting the money into suspension and instruction...if you want an additional HP 996, go for it, but in his own words "It seems that I can get an increase of 32 - 36 HP for less than $2,000" I just don�t see most people getting much out of 34 more HP - its an opinion that the money would be better spent on training - I am back with more rain I guess I like the conversation, and in no way feel you are attacking me, its good that we talk and voice our opinions esp when they are not all the same

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I am glad you do not feel as though I am attacking you because my comments were in no way intended as an attack. They also were not meant to �put you in your place� so I am not sure why you would start your post with this snide comment. That�s it for me on this subject. Have fun at the track.

was being silly, not snide,....sorry if I came accross as such, I am often time just a big bag of wind - cheers and no hard feeling. anough from me on the subjest too

Well, I'm glad that you guys could shake hands and still get together for a beer after that back and forth. Yes, my question was how much additional horsepower can I buy cheap? I have not been at a DE or on a track trying to hone my skills. I took some parade laps on a couple of occasions but never really tossed my car around the track. But, I have done a few AutoX when I had Kermit. That was an eye opening experience. The issue wasn't how fast I could go but how I could go around corners fast. I learned that the great fun of these cars is that they whip you to death around corners, that the solution to many ills you would find yourself in is counter-intuitive - you hit the accelerator more. I learned that the worst thing you can do around a corner is hit the brake!!! I was coming around the last corner on one of my first AX's and hit the brake too long and too hard. The car did a quick 180, and I rolled BACKWARDS through the timing lights. Well, that was an education!! I am enjoying my 996, don't get me wrong. I don't think that I could have found another model that I would enjoy as much for the dollars spent. But as part of my continuing research into what to do with the car, I have started making a list of cosmetic (cockpit) alterations, and some mechanical changes as well. It's not going to get all done at once, but I wanted to get the flavor of the brain trust on HP gains. I am certainly not going to take the car down to minimum weight. That would mean taking out the A/C, the two electric seats, the Targa top, and who knows how much other stuff. That might turn it into a nice track car, but it won't be as much fun to drive around the city. But listening to the responses has been very rewarding. I'll keep you guys posted on what I do, when I get around to it. larry

I'm also a fan of instruction and not HP bolt-on mods. That said....about the IPD intake plenum, you need to be careful of marketing spin. This crap is everywhere and IPD takes it to another level. +24HP (their claim) is not a total HP increase. In fact, looking at their dyno chart you will see only a 9HP peak gain. This 24HP claim comes from a specific rpm range gain where their product claims to have more power over stock. Look again at their chart to see what I mean. http://ipdplenums.com/images/stories...o_01_96174.png I'm not going to judge whether this product is worth it or not because I haven't tried it. I do like how the claimed gain is in the usable rpm range, but I can't speak to the value of it. Cheers,

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And here's another lesson: If you had asked this question when the IPD part first came out, a number of people on this very board would have told you it was the best thing since the martini shaker, and you would have felt a fool for not having one. Internet message boards are no more objective or reliable than marketing is. Just differently motivated.

Drive it like you stole it! love it like it is your last! It will treat you to some of the best driving memories that you will carry for a life time....

My $.02..... GIAC flash ($600), exhaust system ($1,000?), FVD's larger throttle body ($411), and BMC's air filter element in the OEM box ($110). Still in the $2k range and you've enhanced the fuel flow in-n-out, and flashed the ECU to take advantage of it all....

I bought a Turbo for the additional power. But the 996 C2 will always be my first love

Larry47us being on the same road myself, here are some insights. These pertain to the c4s, your performance may vary. 1. tracking the car is mind expanding. i finally began to see what the car is really like!!. it changes character markedly at >5k rpm. the brakes stop on a dime and give a nickel change. 2. the most effective way to feel more secure with the car is to alter the suspension. Stock suspension is for grannies. then tires. a better set of tires makes a world of difference. 3. change the cockpit for comfort. for me, with a bad right hip (finally replaced last year), installing a GT3 delete kit (Suncoast Porsche) makes a world of difference during my daily drive. 4. while you are installing the GT3 delete kit, put in a short shifter kit or 997 assembly. The stock gear shift is not all that precise. Kinda felt like my '72 911S of blessed memory. 5. enjoy it every day. it was built to drive. keep us informed. surfer161 p.s. my avatar is at watkins glen international raceway in Watkins Glen NY

NO2/Nitrous

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It's N2O, not NO2. Nitrogen dioxide is one of your tailpipe emissions. For street, I personally like going for power that you don't have to keep replenishing, and one that isn't just instantaneous but is always there when you put the pedal down. Leave nitrous oxide for the lowered civics and straight line crowd.

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IMHO, the stock suspension is an appropriate tool for the job if your car is a DD on real world roads. I think it's great when people upgrade it and love the look of a lowered car. But I don't think it's fair to suggest that the stock setup was designed by fools to satisfy grannies. Other than on the track, I don't think most of us are in any danger of outdriving it and, as someone who left it stock even when I replaced the worn shocks, I think it's really quite competent. And I'm not what you'd call a granny.

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+1 Well said!

polish and wax it for less drag. ;-)

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I like that one. Getting a tune up if it hasn't had one is a good improvement. I think the advertised plug life is way over what I prefer. Plugs, flash the ECU, make sure the air filter is changed, clean the radiators, even the suspension has lots of options.

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I just had the "major service" at 30,000 miles. He changed the plugs while he was at it. The car seemed to have more power afterwards, but I think that the car drives faster after a full tank of gas, car wash and wax. My butt dyno is not a reliable indicator of performance. Except, a fill-up, car wash and wax is a very very cheap HP add-on. larry

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Its every time I drive.

I drive Flat Out!

Yah use more gas and stay in the higher revs works every time

Why spend $$ on relatively small HP gains? Is'nt it true that in all races, the car that wins doesn't always have the most HP? How many of us have gone out on a friday night, and added a bottle of "NOS" octane booster so we would have an edge on racing someone?

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you obviously should be in the fastest run group, since you spend so much time on the forum. ;-)

I am making a video for my friends to post....

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actually a full tank of gas will slow you down.. you just added weight. ;-)

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I am sure it will go viral almost immediately!