No longer use Mobil1 0w-40?

I received a message from my local indy shop to move away from Mobil1 as the formula has changed? Has anyone else heard this as well?

I haven't heard that, but my Porsche dealer has switched to Valvoline synthetic. I'm not sure why.

If you're not trolling, yes, the formula changed 2-3 years ago. Here's a good overview: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

So I'll ask the loaded question...still a good idea to use??? I've used it for my two oil changes so far.

Is there a formulated list of let's say, TOP 3 oils which we can all agree on? Or let's say a list of TOP 5 oils which are supreme?

I used Shell Helix Ultra in the 996 (which is now Quaker Q-Power) 5w/40 (hard to find) and NO - we wont agree on the top 3.... but we can agree an what NOT to use (maybe)

I doubt there can even be an agreement on what not to use - unless we're talking hair grease or vegetable oil!

I want in. Pass the salt..

Really. Good info here for our engines: http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html#m96 My toplist for 5W40 oils would be: 1) Motul 300V (amazing, oil-of-the-Gods, priced to match) 2) Motul 8100 (SL, Porsche approved) 3) Redline 4) Castrol Syntec (SL, Porsche approved)

That would be some real good info though! TOP 5 oils...... Hmmmmm

Im sticking to my 15w-50....

In any debate, the amount of rhetorical heat is always inversely proportional to the amount of tangible evidence available. I think you need to use something that is light enough to lubricate the valve gear quickly on startup for the conditions you drive in, and you need to change it a lot more often than Porsche recommends. After that, if it's on the list, I really don't think it matters what you use.

Oh boy, and oil thread!!!!! We haven't had one of these for a while! Chao, I need some of that popcorn. Here are a few brews!

great....just put Mobil1 in today

I'm a little confused the owners manual does not even mention 0W-40 I was going to use 10W-40 when I do my oil changes would this be wrong? Its one of the oils listed in the owners manual.

Stopped using Mobil 1 0W-40 after the repair of my intermix. I now use Castrol Syntech, 5W-40 in the cold weather and 5W-50 in the hot weather. Based on the reformulation of Mobil 1 and I don't like 0W oils. I think many manufacturers have gone to 0W oils for mpg reasons as opposed to how good a lubricant and how good the protection of the oil is. Just my opinion. My Ford Expedition, F250, Taurus and my Chevy 3500 cargo van all list 0W-30 and I run 5W-40.

Doug, maybe you can explain something for me, since you seem to know your stuff. Isn't the '0' end of the viscosity rating just the cold viscosity? In which case, it seems to me that it's more protective than an oil with a heavier cold viscosity since it distributes through a cold engine more readily. That's how I got it in shop class, and that's how I always heard it during my years in the car biz. At operating temps, the '0' is irrelevant. What am I missing?

google: The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating their "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The temperature range the oil is exposed to in most vehicles can be wide, ranging from cold temperatures in the winter before the vehicle is started up to hot operating temperatures when the vehicle is fully warmed up in hot summer weather. A specific oil will have high viscosity when cold and a lower viscosity at the engine's operating temperature. The difference in viscosities for most single-grade oil is too large between the extremes of temperature. To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIIs are added to the oil. These additives are used to make the oil a multi-grade motor oil, however it is possible to have a multi-grade oil without the use of VIIs. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base grade when cold and the viscosity of the second grade when hot. This enables one type of oil to be generally used all year. In fact, when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil still varies logarithmically with temperature, but the slope representing the change is lessened. This slope representing the change with temperature depends on the nature and amount of the additives to the base oil. The SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two viscosity grades; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. The two numbers used are individually defined by SAE J300 for single-grade oils. Therefore, an oil labeled as 10W-30 must pass the SAE J300 viscosity grade requirement for both 10W and 30, and all limitations placed on the viscosity grades (for example, a 10W-30 oil must fail the J300 requirements at 5W). Also, if an oil does not contain any VIIs, and can pass as a multi-grade, that oil can be labeled with either of the two SAE viscosity grades. For example, a very simple multi-grade oil that can be easily made with modern base oils without any VII is a 20W-20. This oil can be labeled as 20W-20, 20W, or 20. Note, if any VIIs are used however, then that oil cannot be labeled as a single grade. The real-world ability of an oil to crank or pump when cold is potentially diminished soon after it is put into service. The motor oil grade and viscosity to be used in a given vehicle is specified by the manufacturer of the vehicle (although some modern European cars now have no viscosity requirement), but can vary from country to country when climatic or fuel efficiency constraints come into play

Thanks, ivangene. I think I knew all that stuff. But it doesn't explain to my poor old brain why anyone would worry about 'protection' when the '0' is only the cold viscosity rating.

^ Bruce, You actually read that. I am waiting for cliff notes.

Here is what my indy said when I sent him the LN Engineering oil write up link. I hacked it apart to keep relevent info only so its a little choppy, but This shop knows their stuff. :-) "mobil 1 is fine in your car. Your car does not have the pressures inside the engine that the older engines did. The zinc was for pressures in the valve train specifically the cam shaft to tappet. Since your car has smaller valve train parts the pressures are less and that is why I say what i did. and if your nervous us castrol syntec 5-50. It has more zinc than mobil 1"

since we have the same indy I will also add that recently discovereed amoung us is evidence that the lifters (valve train specifically the cam shaft to tappet) are seeing wear on 3.6 vario cam plus that might be worth trying to prevent - the wear causes the center section to become mushroomed at the top and then the action of the variocam plus no longer works once the center section is press fit into the outter section (lifter becomes solid instead of slip fit outter and inner 1/2's) sorry for the long read above, not sure about the W # and what makes it significant, there are a couple oil guru's around here that will pop in and explain that (i hope)

The LNE link is nice btw I've always wanted to try the 300v in a car, very popular in bikes, honestly I would like to try any Group V oil. now that I'm out of warranty finally my next fill will be ester based anyone have an opinion (haha) on the moly content of these oils re: m96?

My dealer - Herb Chambers Porsche - just filled Mobil 1 0-40 Now I have to worry about this too ???

and then of course I see this ad on the top of the forum : http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/....aspx?option=2

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No. You don't.

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Yes we do, but that's from my east coast indy I got peeps everywhere! lol

I am certainly no oil expert, never took any chemistry. But I know at lower temps, below operating temps an 0W-40 oil has less viscosity than a 5W-40, and a higher viscosity oil provides more film strength and lubrication. So I believe that the 5W oil provides better lubrication at start up. Now if I was living on the north slope of Alaska, and starting my engine when it was -30F I would want the lower viscosity, but in the Chicago area I feel more comfortable with the 5W-40, and in the really hot temps the 5W-50. I know that the dealer I bought my car from always used Mobil 1 0W-40, and they did the oil changes until the warranty was gone. However I am looking at my original owners manual (2000 996) and it DOES NOT LIST A 0W-40 FOR THE CAR! For synthetic oil (ironically it also gives a listing for mineral based oils) it lists for "generally higher than 50F" 10W-40, 15W-40 and 15W-50. for "generally lower than 50F" 10W-40, 10W-30 and 5W-30. So explain the use of 0W-40 when it is not even listed in the owners manual. I think there may have been some TSB's that list 0W-40, I will have to look, but it ain't in the owners manual!

Checked the TSB's and found two from 2009 (both are listed as superseded, not sure why or by what) that list 0W-40 along with 5W-40 and 5W-50. They say for temps below 25C use the 0W-40. What to do? What to Do? What to Do? I am sticking with the 5W-40 and 5W -50 myself.

Well, since we're talikng oil, I'll put in my pitch for Schaeffer 9000 5w40. One of the highest HTHS specs in the industry and costs less than $5 a quart. I'll be doing an oil change tomorrow and will post the lab results when i get them back from Blackstone.

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My understanding is that those lists have been updated more than once since the manuals were printed, so I can't help you there. My logic is a little different than yours. I think that film strength matters when the engine is stressed, but I don't stress my engine until it's warm. Whereas, the valve gear in these motors is super sensitive to lubrication, and the more easily it flows the quicker it will get it on startup. In other words, when cold, your variocam bits need oil fast more than your pistons need maximum protection. Anyway, sounds like we're both bringing knives to this gunfight, so I'll leave it there. I'm sticking with what my indie puts in there.

OK, new guy diving in here... I think I've read this same thread 79 times on bimmerforums (my home)... the point is not that 0-40 is bad, its that mobil1 0-40 is too thin or doesn't have the right chem compound. this exact same issue came up when BMW delisted mobil1 0-30 from its approved list, but kept redline/amsoil/etc.... now, from there... if you're getting ANY tappet/lobe mushrooming, I'd suggest you cease using whatever you were using before and move to something a touch thicker at operating temp. flame suit: ON!

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cool

OK btw: on my Merc and BMW : dealer only uses Mobil 1 0-40W

Dark Helmet, "at operating temperature", any oil with a 40 at the end of its rating has the same viscosity. It can't be "too thin". That oil has a 0 viscosity when cold, and a 40 viscosity when warm. If you want a heavier oil at operating temperatures, it's the second number you need to think about, not the first. People pronounce 0W40 as "too thin" and, with respect, they often seem either not to know what they're talking about or to be kind of imprecise in their language. It's why I usually avoid these debates. If you believe that 0 is too thin, you must by definition believe that it's too thin at startup . Because when it's at operating temperature, the viscosity isn't 0. It's 40. So I remain confused about why it's such a hot topic...

Less than ten hours on this post and only 3 pages!!

I called LN eng. about 6 months ago when I first had my P car to ask about the IMS thing, sorry guys you put the fear in me, and they told me it wasn't that big of an issue for warmer climates. He told me to use Castrol Syntec 5W40 and not worry about it. That's a fact. No bull.

NVM

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Actually, note that it says below -25C not 25C. 99% of this bantering is about the first few minutes after startup. After that, the oil thickens on its way to 40 weight. My guess is that the times that 0 vs. 5 weight will matter are only in the coldest of conditions (e.g., below -25C) or if someone is stupid (desperate?) enough to slam the engine to high RPM's or high load immediately after starting. I'd be willing to bet $$ that using your car regularly (so parts remain coated) and gently until it warms up -- will have more tangible, positive results than choosing 0 vs. 5 cold weight.

Did someone say salt? I need some butter too......

I think eveyone should just post the oil they use as part of their signature

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I agree with your last statement for sure. The cold viscosity thing is hair splitting to some extent. But it doesn't explain why people get so bent out of shape about it. Sure, you're probably fine with a 5 cold viscosity oil. 0 may not be necessary where you live, but does that mean there's anything wrong with 0? Not as far as I can see. Most of the objection to 0W40 seems rooted in a misunderstanding about what that number means.

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nothing like an oil thread to get things moving

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Oh, new avatar. Very sexy in an 80's kinda way

The engine gets up to operating temp faster with out oil

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ding, ding, ding......we have a winner! And Bruce, you know I can appreciate your first sentence Technology improves, science improves, understanding improves. Empiricism is the name of the game When PAG published superceded lists, it's just that....a list that TAKE THE PLACE of what is in your manual. Now would somebody please pass me the and a

Attention All, Please note the announcement at the top of the forum page. Mobil 1 is now a sponsor of Rennlist. There will be no further talk of alternatives. Mmmm. Mobil 1.

So let me get this right....based on recent(warnings) postings, my water pumper needs IMS upgrade, new water pump, coolant tank, a different motor oil, AOS, coil packs, RMS...wait a minute, it appears to be running just fine.

ATTA BOY, Steve.... My 99' never gave me a lick of trouble. Oil, tires, and mods was all I ever did. Its funny (sad) that when I drive any car I dont think about these things, but in a P-car its one of the things that's right there, all the time..... listening for every little noise - buy some ear plugs or turn up the radio then get that IMSR, water pump, aos.....

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You're missing the key component in the discussion: viscosity improvers. There is no such thing as 0W40 oil. As of a few years ago, there was no such thing as 5W40 either. Manufacturers start with a thinner base oil and add viscosity improvers to bolster the top end so it holds together--sort of--like a 40 weight oil when hot. So let's say, hypothetically, that Mobil starts with 0W20 oil and adds some viscosity improvers to get it up to 0W40. But, since it's a cheap oil and they have to make money even on the Mobil1 sold at Wal-mart, only of a quality and quantity that can support that cost model. This oil then degrades over time in the harsh environment of a high performance engine. The viscosity improvers wear out. And you're left with whatever they started with. I don't fear that Mobil1 0W40 will let me down right after an oil change. I do worry at what point it may let me down, so I just avoid it.

I don't mean to sound like a *****, but I'd need some bona fides before I could buy your argument. It's just illogical that one brand of oil could be so uniquely bad, and yet be supported so strongly by Porsche. Sure, money changes hands for that. But if it was only about money, I'm sure 911s would be rolling out of the factory on Firestones. The whole debate smacks of superstition. As a veteran observer of consumer behavior, I'd go so far as to say that people are suspicious of Mobil 1 specifically because Porsche recommends it. The fact is, in every oil debate I've ever seen on here, nobody has been able to produce an example of an oil viscosity-related engine failure or any other example of being "let down" by their oil. No such thing as 5W40 a few years ago? I dunno. Maybe. But there was such a thing as 5W30 when I was a pump jockey in the 1970s. This doesn't feel like a new or risky concept to me so, here again, I feel the need for more grounded argument. Anyway, even if your characterization is accurate, it still leaves the driver with a choice to make (as all engineering decisions do): Lubricate high tolerance parts sooner and compromise protection at the limit, or choose the oil that maximizes protection at the limit and accept the cost of repeated unlubricated startups to that valve gear. There is likely no one oil that does both jobs perfectly. I choose the first, and then mitigate against the risk by changing my oil more often. Like most forms of elephant repellent, it seems to work.

I just put Mobil 1 0W40 a few weeks ago.... I will continue using this I guess since there is no real threat. Personally I consider this to be good oil when I did a comparison on my previous car and the competition was Castrol Syntec 5W30 (On a 330ci). The Mobil 1 ran way better! If somone could give me some sort of semi concrete evidence that better oil exists specifically for my 3.6, I'll take that info and put it to good use on my next oil change.

There is no 0W40 WITHOUT viscosity improvers. A decade ago there was no 5W40 without viscosity improvers. Now, some of the very high end 5W40s (Motul 300V, perhaps redline) use no viscosity improvers. It's not Mobil1 that's uniquely bad. It's just a matter of quality vs. price. It would be silly to think that a $5 liter of M1 is just as good as a $15 liter of racing oil.

My question is.....what oil is readily available can I use besides 0-40 mobil 1???? I gotta be able to pick it up at advanced auto or autozone ect. Im not mail ordering away for oil.....something I refuse to do. My saab also calls for 0-40 mobil 1. So as a matter of convience I ussually just buy it when I see it avail.

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Well, there is a precedence for this behavior on Porsche's part. Back in the mid-70's or mid-80s Porsche got into the airplane engine business with its air-cooled sixes. The recommended oil was Mobil oil. Trouble was the Mobil oil wasn't at all suited to the application. Specifically to the presence of lead in aviation gasoline. IIRC the decision to use/recommend Mobil oil was made by Porsche with no input from Mobil. The results weren't pretty and Porsche was soon out of the airplane engine business. (Besides the oil problem the engine was not well-suited to airplane applications.) Now I've run Mobil 1 0w-40 oil in my 02 Boxster for probably more miles than most have. I've also used at one time or another -- for various lengths of time -- Mobil 1 15w-50, Mobil 1 10-40 high mileage oil, and the last couple of oil changes Castrol Syntec 5w-50, which I also have switched to using in my 03 Turbo. My Boxster has fared quite well on Mobil 1 oil. It has almost 234k miles on the original untouched engine. And the engine (and the car) still run just fine. However, very soon after buying the Boxster -- within just a few thouand miles -- I found through an oil analysis a lot of water in the oil. No coolant leak just the natural presence of water from condensation in the oil arising from using the car in cold weather and not driving the car long enough to boil the water out of the oil. More on this below. Even though I drove around 10 miles -- one way - to work I found upon closely monitoring coolant temperature (via an OBDII scan tool) I found that even after 10 miles of driving the coolant was nowhere near 212F. Furthermore, even on longer drives -- up to 70+ miles -- the coolant tempeture remained well below 212F. Helped in part by a combination of factors: Cold weather (winter in the mid-west); the relatively light loads the engine subjected to on these drives (cruising at freeway speeds) and most times driving with the autoclimate control set to 72F in order to heat the cabin. Doing this turns on the electric A/C fans and these work to keep coolant temperature down. On these long drives seldom did the coolant temperature even touch 200F most of the time staying 196F or even less. (I might add here that in steady state cruising on level ground the Boxster engine was only using approx. 20% of its power, that it is once up to speed it requires around 40hp to keep the Boxster moving down the road. I have monitored engine loads for other cars I have owned and currently own and they also require about the same amout of power under similar circumstances.) Anyhow, after this oil analysis since due to circumstances beyond my control I might not be able to drive the car in such a way to get the oil hot enough to boil away the accumulation of water (and perhaps unburned gasoine as well) I vowed to change the oil more frequently and settled upon 5K miles. The more frequent oil changes -- even with Mobil 1 oil -- I think has contributed to the engine's longevity. Based on examining the various spec sheets for various oils, I do not think Mobil 1 is the best oil available in its price range and have decided to switch away from using it. While I did rack up approx. 225K miles using nothing by Mobil oil driving my Boxster I decided to switch oils to provide a bit more margin. Now at 234K miles the Boxster probably could care less. It could probably run another 234K miles using Mobil 1 and following the same oil change interval and of course me following the same usage pattern. However, when I bought the 03 Turbo (used last year) I wanted a better oil for its more highly stressed engine and I didn't want to have to stock -- I oftentimes do the oil changes for both cars -- two different oils so to simplify things I opted to use the same oil in both cars. Sincerely, Macster.

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Castrol Syntec 5W40. Porsche approved, SL (not SM!). ~$7.50. Castol is owned by BP, so be extra careful cleaning up any that spills.

Thanks as always for the thoughtful reply, Macster. I recall Porsche's attempt at an airplane engine vividly. Oil was the very least of their problems with that venture! It's a great bit of Porsche history. I think your Boxster story agrees perfectly with my own inexpert view of the subject. Frequent changes matter a lot more than the brand of oil you use. I change mine often for exactly the reason you did: repeated short trips cause water to accumulate in the oil, drastically shortening its useful life. At 225,000 trouble free miles on your car, it would be easy to say there were better oils, but hard to say that Mobil 1 was harmful.

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This concurs with the LN article. It is the viscosity improvers that you want LESS of, meaning, you want an oil with a closer "range". A 0w-40 oil will require more viscosity improvers than a 5w-40 motor oil with all other things being equal. It is beleived that the 5w oil is a better base and requires less viscosity modifers to get it (and keep it) at 40 (at full operating temp). I'm a Castrol Syntec 5w-40 guy and use it in my 996 and my wifes VW. It is available at any Pep boys and has been approved by a myriad of auto manufacturers as a suitable alternative to whatever the factory fill is. How long will it be available? Now that's another question. It's made by BP....

Not that it matters a bit, but my independent uses Pentosin 5W40 synthetic. When I asked them why, they told me their supplier can get it very quickly and they had good results. They also told me they would get Castrol Syntec or Mobil 1 if I felt strongly about it. Their view: good oil is good oil, just change it often. And that is probably a more important oil question - assuming you are not using cheap crap, how often should you change the oil in the M96 engine? Currently I am going with a 6k or 6 months cycle. Even that much less than the Porsche recommendation seems a bit long to me. I changed the dino oil in my 968 every 3k. Those cars have some cam teeth/chain problems. When I checked at 115k miles, mine were pristine.

WOW!! this oil debate is really getting some traction.. FWIW. I have a new engine with a 2 year guarantee in my 2001 996, and my indy mechanic told me that i must keep using the Mobil 1 oil to maintain the engine guatantee. As i had asked him about different oils, especially after being influenced here with all the different post on engine oils. My indy recommends frequent oil changes mitigates many engine related issues. On the engine topic, What octane fuel are poeple using?

Cool an oil thread!! Subscribed.....

This may be dated, but I spent part of an evening with a Shell Oil Company rep a few years ago -- not that Shell knows anything about oil. His points were: 1. Use what the auto factory recommends but, aside from that.... 2. Use the thinnest oil that gives you factory approved oil pressure. It was Shell's position (based on their own research) that it is the flow of oil in the engine that protects more than thickness. Thinner oils flow faster and provide more protection than thicker oils. He said that natural oil is 30wt after processing. To make anything thicker (esp. in a multi-weight) they added thickeners which have no lubrication value. So, a quart of 10w30 actually has more oil in it than a quart of 20w50. He felt a thicker oil was only useful if wear/tolerances had gotten to the point where you couldn't maintain adequate oil pressue with a lighter weight oil. I don't know to what extent this applies to current formulations of synthetics, but I've kept to his general advice -- and will probably do so until someone comes up with genuine, laboratory-grade evidence to the contrary.

Personally I use Silkolene PRO S 5W-40...

Once I see an engine which has failed and the failure is conclusively proven to have been caused by the use of Mobil 1 oil, I will switch. The bottom line to me, is that as long as you are using a decent oil, and changing it regularly, your engine will be just fine.

I had no idea I was going to start such a frenzy.

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Nearly 234K miles today. A problem I have, a concern more than a problem, is while Mobil 1 has been ok for my Boxster and its engine, I adhere rather rigidly to that 5K mile oil/filter service. I've even sought out a dealership to have the oil/filter service done when on one particularly long road trip I went over 5K miles, had about 2K more miles to go. Other times *before* leave on a trip I'll arrange to change or have changed the oil even if the oil does not have 5K miles on it. Another concern is even though I found the water contamination level high in my car's oil, much of my driving involved much longer trips. Work at 10 miles one way was the shortest trip I took. Once a week or more often, I had reasons to drive maybe double that or even triple or quadruple that and then there were the 150+ mile round trip drives to visit my mom and dad. Then a few months after I bought the Boxster I bought a new second car, a VW Golf TDi, and it got the work commute duty and in fact in the real bad winter weather where I lived and worked (mid-Missouri about 28 miles east of KC Mo off of I-70) it served as my winter beater car. Thus the Boxster got used on nicer days, warmer days, and for longer trips. The TDi got its fair share of use though. I bought the TDi in March of 02 and sold it in very early in 2007 (just before I bought a new left over 2006 GTO) and when I sold the VW it had over 120K miles on it. During the warmer months of course the Boxster got used even more, sometimes, most of the time more often than the TDi. So, along with frequent oil/filter services, my usage of the car also was "easy" on the oil. Not everyone would be as religious about changing the oil like I was and not many I dare say would use their car like I did. Thus I think to provide an extra margin of safety some oil better than Mobil 1 needs to be considered. Sincerely, Macster.

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+1, especially when tracking regularly / mostly. Change every 2 DE weekends and have it analyzed. Cheap insurance with these engines (yeah, I know, that's a whole different can ofworms...). Reason being that the viscosity improvers deteriorate very quickly under heavy duty usage and you end up with a 0W25 or 30 very quickly, providing less protection. My advice: Look for an oil with a high high temp/high shear rating. JP

i just get the cheapest oil, usually mineral oil and cheapest 89 octane off brand gas for my RS. works just fine.

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I just looked and the Castrol Syntec 5w-40 is also approved for my 2008 VW 2.0T. Makes it a bit easier when I can use the same oil in both vehicles.

Now that we have cause a huge frenzy with the topic of oils......................... What brand of oil filter to use......=-)

I use: Boxster S (987 ) using Redline 5W40 the past 3 years. Will try Mobil One 5W50 next oil change, prior to winter hibernation. Redline has been great. Just want to try something new, and finally found the 5W50. 993 Turbo - Mobil One 15W50 Ext. Perf. and now Mobil One Twin V 20W50. Plan to do one more change with the Twin V and then will try Motul 300V 15W50 (expensive). After that I may try the Castrol Syntec 5W50. If the Castrol works well, I will use in both cars. I change yearly or every 5,000 miles. And do Blackstone used oil analysis.

Actually, since my car is German... Every other month, regardless of mileage, I cook up 15lbs of bratwurst, decant the oil, strain it through a German brassiere, then use it for the oil change. Screw this over-the-counter crap! They know nothing! Add extra onions & garlic to get 15 extra hp to the rear wheels on top of all other mods. When choosing the proper brassiere, avoid any ones used for German super models. They are too small and the decorations can get caught in the AOS (a known problem, just use the Search function to confirm). Ones that look like there were government issue are best.

I understand garlic is a good IMS bearing preservative

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Keep the IMS vampires from sucking the oil out of the bearings.

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incorrect. it has a viscosity in the range SAE labels as "40" a manufacturer may be a bit more specific in their requirements. that was the EXACT issue with mobil1 0-30 and the non-M BMW engines made between ~1999 and 2004. I don't know enough about the porsche issue to say what it is or isn't, but a manufacturer usually makes recommendations for a reason, even if it's just monetary. the best part is that in many (maybe all) applications, Castrol Syntec is cheaper than Mobil1.... and it is recommended by the manufactures...

The oil viscosity range is what's required to comply with an oil specification. The car maker doesn't care if the oil has a hot viscosity of 40-49. If they did care they'd say the oil viscosity must be 4X which they don't say because oil viscosity changes slightly with use. So BruceP is correct that any ?w-40 oil has the same basic 40 weight hot viscosity and is acceptable for any application that requires a hot 40 weight viscosity oil. I'm no brand ***** so use whatever oil meets the car mfgs. oil spec and viscosity requirements. http://www.ideas4ag-ed.com/uploads/3..._viscosity.pdf

bump ... Please post which oil you use and your geographic location and/or season...

More confused than ever with the different opinions here. Why then does my owner's manual ('05 C4S) recommends 10W40 15W40 15W50 for temps higher than 50F/10C in synthetics? Then for temps below the recommendation is 10W40 10W30 5W30. If I am to believe this topic, PAG is wrong.

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Don't use your owners manual for oil grade recommendations. That was so 2005 Take a look at the most recent Porsche oil approved list. That will give you your answer. I believe this might be the newest list, not certain. http://members.rennlist.org/jandreas...ved_A40_En.pdf

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Keep in mind, Porsche issues TSB (technical service bulletins) that update the owners manual. What might have been true in 2005, may have changed for 2010, for example.

Well. thanks for the advice but am sorry to say that I'm even more confused... Quoting from the P996 Essential Companion, it seems that " the one thing that didn't change was the great oil debate...Which oile is best..." And then the author goes on to say "...the 996 bible when it comes to oil is the owner's manual....then the next source of reference is the PAG list of approved oils issued annually." Am I reading this properly?

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hahahaha.... classic oil thread. Just pick your favorite brand and keep it topped off, your guess is as good as any.

redridge, Seems you're right!

Reason Im reading this with interest is that its almost time for my second oil change and Im thinking of using something other then "mobile water" to quiet things down abit... I am thinking og trying castrol syntac but not sure what weight I need to go with. Im in the northeast and I do drive in the winter when its dry. This next oil change will take me to next summer....

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5W-40. Sold at every pepboys in the northeast The nice thing about Syntec (for me) is that it works for every car I have. My wife's tiguan, my speed6 and the C2.

I use the Pennzoil Synthetic European formula ; SAE 5w40 ; mainly because I get it for almost free...... When I got the new engine the dealer filled it with mobil 0w40 and swear by it. I just don't like it.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I wanted to put a plug in for this elephant repellent I've been using. You know, since I got this stuff, I haven't seen a single elephant in my car. Not one. This stuff works, and anyone who doesn't use it is stupid.

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You use it too? I thought I was the only one.

Damn Bruce, I wish I had known about the this elephant repellent back when I had my 996. If I had known, then this probably wouldn't have happened!

^^^^ holy!.... thats a well manicured lawn Tim, whats up with the other side of the driveway though.

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Other side of the driveway is my neighbor's yard.

Y'all can go offtopic, but you HAVE to post the oil you use somewhere in the post!

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Not only does your neighbor's yard need a trim, I think the cute number on your Porsche may need a trim as well Tim.(just saying)

Syntec 5W-50; I drive in Southern California and it's been around the 90's for the last couple of weeks.

Going forward, I'm swearing off all oil & ims threads. There is nothing substantive that can be said that someone can't find with a search function. Great lawn, btw. (oil? 3 in 1)

There is a new oil out that is good for 50 HP and 200% increase in mpg. It's made from maple syrup, cottage cheese and sake. Any leftover is good for salad dressing. Bet ya didn't know that!

u cant put sake in a german car... ur oil is for lexus use

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OK, I got off topic so now back on topic. I use 0W-20 non-synthetic in my Honda. Not a joke. That is what Honda recommends.

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that's what I used to make chicken cutlets last night!

Mobile 1 5W-50 for the 996TT. Mobile 1 15W-50 for the 928S4. Florida.

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He he, almost feel evil resurrecting this thread. In Montgomery, AL I just put in M1 0W-40 because of the upcoming season and temp change. From reading the past seven pages, thinking I should have used 5W-40. Maybe even 10W-40, since it gets to about freezing, but never lower.

"They" say less spread is moooo better. Sure 0w40 is fine, 5w40 better, 10w40 good, and maybe 20w50 even better (maybe not below freezing though)! LIO is OIL spelled backwards BTW.

I just had my car go through the IMSR procedure at Flat 6 in June/July. Jake has a great reputation in the forums, and this is what came with my paperwork: They sell their own Flat 6 Innovations oil - I don't know if it is a rebranded oil with a different sticker on it or not, so I don't know about that - but I just emailed them to find out the cost of their oil so I can do my Fall/Winter switch over. The recommendations from Flat 6 as far as weight goes is: 10w30 mixture for the Fall/Winter 20w50 for Spring/Summer If I can't afford the Flat 6 branded oil, what is a good oil in the above weights? Castrol Syntec? Thanks.

Very comparable to what you pay discount for Syntec or M1, however shipping is pretty hefty for the below options... 10w30: http://www.lnengineering.com/store/c...case-p-29.html 20w50: http://www.lnengineering.com/store/c...case-p-28.html

I'm new here, not jaded about a oil thread, it deals with the important stuff, good to revisit. I bought my '99 C2 2 1/2 years ago, the factory replacement engine had 11k (came with M1 0-40). It now has 86k. It just started using a couple of oz's between 6k oil changes, with redline 5-40. I use Jake's ceramic bearing (just had it put in with clutch and RMS leaking, why not, the bearing is better), I cannot see using his oil. Grade 5 oil is above grade 4. Grade 5 oils are a much larger percentage of base stock to additives, the thermal properties are not even comparable. Grade 5 doesn't evaporate, AOS replacement anyone? Want empirical?, go to the track and ask any racer or engine builder who races and uses it if he or she has doubts, go to an endurance event and ask the people whose rule book doesn't allow oil coolers, who are running in the front, what they use. Plastics?, my 944S2 did 3 hard seasons on the track and 110,00k miles on the road, on one cam chain tensioner, the plastic ramp still looked fine. Not all grade 5's are the same, in fact, we are seeing the beginning of expensive boutique 5's. (see Europe) On a limb, I think the engineers who designed the M96 were sold a bill of goods by the oil designers, small vents in the lifters, thermal stress, these cars will run hot (the coolant/ oil changer, this is the sleeper at LN, getting rid of that piece of crap, the oil heater, as it were, if you don't know how to properly warm up your car, get a chevy) The big P is in bed with the big M, note, they do approve Motul. A question, what is that stuff castrol makes for those BMW M engines, gr 4 or 5? How's the popcorn?

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Not sure I complete understand your post but in summary do you approve of Mobil 1 0W-40 or the recommendations from LN Engineering?

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I think he's saying the synthetic stuff made by men in labcoats locked away in rooms drawing equations on the wall is superior to the LNE/F6I options.

I'll try to be clear. Grade 5 oils are polyol ester based, the most common for us are Redline and Motul. M1 and B Penn are something else, Penn is crude based. I have no idea why Jake R would use this in his rebuilds, it should be noted that he states there is very little in his creations that are shared with a stock M96. It may be that his internals work better with heavy crude based oil. I have nothing but respect for his work and use the LN IMS bearing in my car. For many years the air cooled P car guys have loved Swepco which is the same type as Penn, it has worked very well. The M96 is a very different engine, I and many others believe that the P ester based oils run in a lighter viscosity is better for this engine design. As to lab coats, as I stated, I ran redline 20-50 in my 944S2 for 234,000 miles and 3 track seasons of very hard track days is California desert heat and the engine never broke or only got maintenance service. My 996 engine has 87K miles and gets 2300 more every month and sees track days in California heat without a third rad or X51 oil pan (that I hope to change soon), it uses so small an amount between oil changes as to be hard to measure (has varied from 5 to 9k miles). Ponder this, if your engine is using oil, where does it go? Burns or evaporates we hope, assuming you have no leaks. I'll be the Guinea pig, let's see how long my AOS lasts, that doesn't have to deal with your crude oil evaporating. If it's burning it's messing up all kinds of internals. A guy at the local track, Infineon, (hate it, but Sears Pt. is a disappearing moniker), takes his street ride, a suby with 200k and a bad head gasket in, he uses only Motul 300V, the suby mechanics absolutely refused to believe that he he didn't feed it large amounts of fuel cleaner, the head was that clean. They were indignant that he would even try to tell him that he only changed the oil every 10k. Lastly, try telling the guys at Redline that they're just guys writing equations, they are empirical engineers if ever there were. I'm not hip to this yellow dipping head and the rock wall thing, what does that mean? Being serious, not contentious, I don't get it.

I tryed the 5w50 mobil 1, now using, again, castrol syntec 5w40 all year. Ambient temperatures go from -20c to 30c. Reason to stay with the castrol, I changed the mobil oils last summer before the Ring trip. Drove 1800km's on 2 days, and the oil level dropped from full to empty. Had to top the oil level 3 times on the 6 day and 3600km road trip. Castrol in the other hand, seem's to keep it's viscosity better and does not "run thru" the engine. Oil consumption is minimal and when the oils are changed, the old oil is much thicker. All of you that change your car's oil's your self, try the castrol or mobil. Youl see the difference in wiscosity when you change the oil's. For the internal wear difference, I don't know. Biggest issue to me was the oil consumption.