A couple dumb clutch questions

So I was driving home form work today and having a spirited drive when about half way home I am shifting and as I let out the clutch pedal it doesn't come out. It felt like it was stuck on something (my shoe, the floor mat, etc.). It slowly returned to the top and then I proceeded to shift and the same damn thing again and again and again......... Then as I accelerate the RPM's slide upwards but like it was in neutral only getting minimal acceleration. So my first guess is...OH CRAP, I just lost the clutch! So here is a few ?'s for you: 1. How long is a clutch typically supposed to be good for. 2. Same as #1 but with several track days under the belt 3. If I can smoothly engage ALL gears, then the tranny is fine, correct? 4. This isn't a function of the drop in temp here is it? Thanks for the input! Great, just what I wanted for Christmas....a new clutch

Dell, The clutch being hydraulic may have lost fluid pressure-any obvious fluid dripping or coating the tranny?

Dell, it's likely only the clutch slave cylinder, not the clutch itself. Possibly condensation from lower temps, etc. I'd start with getting the clutch blead.

Sounds like a plan. I am heading to DC in the morning and won't have a chance to look it over till I get back next week. Any way to check for and clutch hydraulic fluid level? What about life expectancy of these things?

I'm still on my original clutch with over 83,000 miles and it still feels good. My guess is that it will need replacing at around 100,000 miles, but you never know.

Go to know Paul. Thanks for the input. I'll troubleshoot the other items as suggested for now.

Sounds like clutch slave cylinder... i had the same problem with a Saab clutch

Isn't there a Hydraulic dip stick in the engine compartment? I swear I just checked mine last week.

83.000 miles on your original clutch????!!!!!! good for you!!! i have only 42.000 miles and now i am ready to replace the 2nd one!!!!

definetelly the slave or the master cylinder.... i had the same pob on my 964

There is a dipstick for the steering, dipstick. Sorry couldn't help myself. The clutch shares it's resiviour with the brake system, so if you want to check the fluid look under the bonnet. When was the last time you had you brake fluid replaced? If you have a brake bleeder you can do it yourself which also has directions on how to bleed the clutch. I have heard of this happening once before and the slave sounds right. It also sounds like there could be a lack of a spring somewhere to return the operation. Go on renntech if you're interested there are diy instructions how to bleed the clutch either separately or coupled with the brake pad change diy

Slave clutch master cylinder for sure. May just be low on fluid. I actually boiled my brake fluid once at limerock, clutch pedal felt very spongy., once I changed out the fluid, good as new.

Recently flushed my brake fluid (6 mos. ago) with Super Blue. The reservoir is full. I did NOT do the clutch bleed though. I planned on doing it during my 60K service which I am doing in 2-3K miles and was just going to do a total flush and fill of the brake fluid. I will move up that timeline and do the 60K next week. Thanks again for all the input fellas!

One other thing. What about the slipping RPM's when I tried to accelerate??? Any explanation for that? I just don't have much knowledge when it comes to clutch mechanics and operation.

Harris, I'm with you. I almost passed a kidney stone when I read 83k on the original clutch, wondering whether this guy is the most gingerly of Porsche drivers or if he coasts downhill to work...BOTH WAYS! Anyway, on my 2000 Porsche Boxster S, my clutch had to be replaced at 34k miles. The service tech said that it was actually a very good run of it considering all the stop and go traffic in the New York Metro area. Additionally, it would be disingenuous of me to say that I don't GET ON the car frequently. Dell, because of the problem that you're having with the clutch PEDAL 'sticking', I would doubt that it's your clutch that's gone. When mine failed, the pedal felt fine while the car experienced noticeable slippage accelerating from a stop. I think the notion of bleeding your fluid level is THE way to go first. And as for temperature, it's cold as can be up here in NYC and my clutch feels fine, though it does improve marginally as the engine warms up and the fluids become less viscous. Cheers.

Thanks Edward. It's just the slipping RPMs when I tried to accelerate which scared me. I guess if understood clutches better I wouldn't feel so dumb right now

Dell, don't even sweat it. When I scratch my arm, I ask my doctor if I broke a bone...it's like the say: better safe than sorry, an ounce of prevention a pound of cure, and all that.

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What am I lookiing at cost-wise (approximately) for this repair should it in fact be as most of you concur in that it shouldbe the clutch master slave cylinder--and what is invovled labor-wise? Just trying to figure out what presents I was going to buy myself for Christmas need to be 86'ed

Dell, before you do anything with parts, try just bleeding the clutch lines first. It may be just that simple. Otherwise, I'll look into the clutch master slave cylinder cost for you. A friend of mine who runs a shop offered to get all parts for me at cost. At least it'll give you a barometer when pricing....if that indeed turns out to be your problem.

Thanks Edward!

i had my master and slave cylinder replaced after i was experiencing clutch engagement irregularities. forgot which one but one of them was made of plastic and the internals were shot. the tranny did not need to be dropped. some one the board mentioned that there was a TSB on a return spring/helper spring.

I had mine replaced and I think it was like 250ish? I would definitely like to know all TSB regarding the entire clutch assembly because I have had problems since the new one was installed jul last year and now the engagement is so bad it is difficult to drive. I am going to take it in after finals if I have time before I leave on vacation.

Same thing happened to me...was told by head tech there may have been air in the lines, they re-bled the lines and haven't had a problem since.

TSB's related to clutch: 2/05 - 3001 Clutch Pedal Does Not Fully Reach Its Original Position 2/00 - 3005 Clutch Pedal Noise 2/03 - 3001 Clutch Pedal Sticks

Thanks for the input Paul and 996Jammy. I will be bleeding the clutch first thing and making sure that isn't the problem before I take her into the shop, I'll keep y'all posted when I find out what the problem was. Thanks again everybody

Always a good idea to bleed the slave cylinder when you flush/bleed the main (brake) system, this is a fairly common problem with Pcars.

Lewis, is that the only problem with Pcars?

LOL! Actually, my original clutch has taken part in numerous track events and I would consider myself an 'aggressive' driver (wanna compare speeding tickets?). The clutch is definitely much harder to press than when it was new, but I actually like it like that. I try to shift as smoothly as possible at all times and I let out the clutch and put it in neutral when I'm stopped at a light etc. I rarely downshift (unless I'm at the track) driving in the city, aside from the occasional overtaking maneuver on the highway just for kicks. I use my brakes to slow down, and then let out the clutch (in neutral) just before coming to a stop. On a related note, at my next service I'm due to change the transmission fluid. Should I go with Porsche recommended or is there another type of fluid that is more durable or performance oriented?

OK, I'll bite...... Porsche CARS or Porsche TRUCKS? Very different answers.....but you already knew that, didn't you

I did, just having a little fun on a Sunday evening

Ok, so time for an update........... I just got done bleeding the clutch (and the entire brake system) with new fluid. Flushed all the old stuff out first then filled and bled with the new stuff. Problem still there and the bleed did NOT help: 1)Clutch pedal doesn't return with the zeal it used to (comes out about 1/3 and then slowly the rest). 2)RPM's slide like the clutch isn't engaging. So here is where I am. I am taking it in next Wednesday to have it looked at. I called my local indy and my mechanic said that it sounded like the clutch since the RPM's were moving up and the car wasn't pulling but he still said there was no way to tell without looking at it. If it's the clutch, fine, I get it replaced. But what is still bothering me is that this was an all or none thing. I was pulling hard on my way home and then instantly the next shift I had the problem with the clutch pedal feeling like it was stuck on the floor and then the RPM's surged with just normal acceleration. I can accelrate slowly without the RPM's sliding, it's jsut when I give it a bit more gas that it slides. Any thoughts before I take it in?

Dell: When they tear it apart, have them put in a new clutch fork (actuator lever) Cost about $40 from the dealer. I don't know the build date of your car, but it is very common for these lever to bind as the clutch disc wears. Porsche has redigned it to prevent that from happening. There was a TSB issued to replace it because of noise. I would install the "C" clips on the hydraulic lines first. Known problem. Few minutes to install. Tightens up the lines so there is less flex. Before I pull the tranny for a look see, I would remove the boost spring on the clutch pedal. This is easy to remove and will do 2 things. It will eliminate the spring as the cause (there was a TSB on this too) and it will allow you to FEEL the entire movement of the pedal and clutch assembly. PM me your email address and I will send along the instructions. Jim

Dell, If you end up having to replace the clutch, let me know what you end up paying. When I took my Porsche to one service dealer (Manhattan Motorcars), they wanted to charge me $2500. I almost passed out. Instead, I took the car back, telling them that I would think about it and took it to a service dealer in the suburbs (Pepe Porsche), they only charged me $1250. I still can't figure out why the discrepancy from two authorized Porsche service centers, but you can imagine who I went with. Meanwhile, it will be very interesting to see what you independent shop will charge. I am already preparing the floor with a mattress should I collapse again. ;-) By the way, Vegas was outstanding. Temps in the 60s and a few of us went out on some ATVs in the "Valley of Fire". Very cool out there in the desert/mountains/dunes/wherever we were. Have to catch you out there next time I hit the strip. Also, Nines and Fix were a lot of fun if you haven't been (but then again you live there so who am I kidding?).

It is unlikely that the clutch pedal problem is related to a bad clutch, pressure plate or throwout bearing. It is either (in the order I would suspect) the hydraulic system (not holding pressure),, binding pedal assembly or clutch fork. Even if half the fingers on the PP were broken, there would still be several hundred pounds of tension to return the pedal.

I don't suppose any of this is covered by the CPO warranty? Look me up next time, we will definitely get together for a drink

lack of pressure would be the slave clutch master cylinder?

I would think that it is considered regularly wear and tear and thus not covered by warranty. Then again, my warranty ended a year earlier, so I could be wrong. I'm going to call my mechanic tomorrow and see if he can shed any more light on this subject.

Thanks Edward! I'll keep an eye on this thread for your response.

Alright, I just got off the phone with my mechanic this morning about your problem (basically reading this thread to him). Here's what he said as I went through the scenario (and bear in mind that he qualified everything by saying that he couldn't be sure without looking at the car personally, so take it with a grain of salt). I guess that's the legal disclaimer : 1. Off the top of his head, the clutch slave cylinder would be the first place that he would look as it sounds like a hydraulic issue. Bleeding won't always fix the problem if there is something inherently wrong with the mechanism. As such, that would be the first, and cheapest (shy of just bleeding but you already did that), thing to start with and replace. 2. If not (and here's the rub because you will have likely already replaced the slave), it could very well likely be the clutch...and not an inexpensive repair. How many miles do you have on your car? If it's over 30k, then at least you got a decent run out of it. I will say that at 34k when I had to replace my clutch, the new one was NOTICEABLY better. It's amazing how we get used to things wearing down without even recognizing the impairment. Anyway, from my post above, I would see what the indy charges you, but anything under $1250 parts and labor and you are good to go. So, it seems like the guys on this thread were pretty much spot on with their assessment of the problem. Hey, at least it should give us some good faith on what's being written here in the future. Save us a lot of trouble in the future when trying to isolate problems. Let me know if I can be of any more help.

That is a great write-up Edward! I am taking it in on Wednesday and will know more by the end of that day since I will have to go/no-go the repairs. THe good news is that I have 3 cars so I will not be troubled other than not have my Porsche therapy for those long rides to work (but I am off till Jan 16). Really appreciate your input. Next beer in Vegas is on me!

Dell, I think the new slave is about $75 and it is pretty easy to put in. It is a new design and fits the newly designed clutch fork much better. If you want to test the entire hydraulic system, simply remoe the bleeder screw on the slave and screw a high pressure gauge into the hole. Push the pedal to the floor. Any leak (internally or externally will result in the reading on the gauge dropping. However, it is a lot easier to simply throw in a new slave. Regardless, elimnate hydraulics as the cause before ripping the tranny off the car unecessarily. 99.9% chance that it is hydraulic. Make sure your lines are secure so the don't flex and that the 3 line connectors (2 underbody and 1 in front trunk) are not loose. Put the Porsche provided clips on each connector if they are not already there. Have fun.

I think this is a job for my local indy. If I had a lift (which I will next summer in my new home) then I would definitely tackle this job. Problem is I have no idea what parts I will need a priori. Since I have 2 other cars I will wait to hear what they say and then go from there. I had just palced an order with Sunset yesterday. I am thinking I should call them and see if my order has already gone out....if not then I should probably add a few items to it? Just not sure what. Thanks again Jim for all your input.

Edward- Manhattan Motorcars is 150 per hour. . . pepe is probably 100. Porsche is also the cheapest car they sell... so bugatti prices for Porsches

So....I just got the car back from my indy. Not only was the clutch gone but the flywheel as well! The flywheel was a mid-replacement phone call. When they removed theclutch it was apparent that the flywheel was toast as well. ARGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! So, here is what was done over the last 2 days: New clutch kit installed New flywheel (THESE SUCKERS ARE NOT CHEAP!) New seals/bolts/etc. New spark plugs and polybelt (since I was going to do the 60K service anyway) Anybody care to guess to total bill??? Let's just say Christmas is gonna take a hit this year

$4,800

$2800

damn, you should've just traded it in early for the gt3 clutch - 500 flywheel - 800 plugs - 200 labour @ 125/hour (CA rates, hope LV/NV has lower rates) 16-20 hours = 2000~2500 ------------- 4000 -> YIKES! do i win?

Dell, that absolutely stinks. But, at the very least, I promise you that the new clutch will fee phenomenal when you get back in the car. Night and day difference. Oh yeah, my guess? $3200.

Carlos.......GT3 is still on the way but in the spring (and we are going to keep the 996CAB since the wife wants us to each have our own track day cars!) Everybody else......I'll keep the suspense from you............ GRAND TOTAL? $2600 Gotta love the honest indy shops that aren'tout to rape you! FYI....our local indy is owned by our PCA region president. Great guy as well.

I win, cuz Dell didn't add in the $200 in tread loss to his tires that will result from him testing out the new clutch.

Actually I had 96K miles on my 98 Boxster. I am a New Yorker with lots of driving on the LIE. Enought said. I get on my cars a good deal, but drive like I've got raw eggs between my feet and the pedals! It does depend on how you mate the components together, and I think also on the way it was assembled from the factory.

HAHA!!!!! Good one!

sttsamford.....????? Have no idea what you are talking about.

$hit Dell, that $uck$ $o bad. $ee, if you had $ent me your P$E, only the clutch would be gone. Look at that, even my keyboard feel$ bad for ya... it'$ changing all of the "S" to "$" Seriously, I feel bad for you. It is always a shock when your hear "well, there's something else..." when your on the phone with the repair shop. It does, however, appear that you are taking it in stride.

Have to take it in stride. Why? Still feel very fortunate to own such a fantastic car. And the grand scheme of things, what is $2500 on a car that cost damn near $100K? Sure, some will say "I'd never own a porsche out of warranty" (which doesn't aply to wear items anyway) or "that is just so expensive to fix." But realistically, I had all that work done for $2500 and I have 57K miles on the car now. Not to mention the wife had some bad clutch habits to learn away. Oh yeah, and there is all those track days. And every time we go to the track it counts twice since we BOTH track the car! I still feel like a kid in a candy store every time I get behind the wheel........and that my friend is worth the price of admission! Nothing like a Porsche 911 to provide therapy ON the drive home I didn't even realize I just spent $2500 on her. Just felt one with her again

I think $2,600 is very reasonable for what you had done. I didn't realize this was an independant, which is why I guessed $4,800. The clutch alone is close to $2,000 at a Porsche dealer.

With the original clutch?