Legal Question: Getting Burned on E-bay *D'oh*

This is a question for those of you have have been burned when dealing online (or lawyers who can input). I won a pair of facelift litronic lights on ebay at a good price (yay!) and wire transfered payment to the user. I checked his feedback and he had some positives as well as negatives but decided to chance it (stupid me). Now i can't get a hold of this guy and i havn't heard from him in a week. Before he dissapeared he gave me a flimsy excuse that he's going on vacation and would ship out my lights when he gets back which was suppsoed 2 be the tuesday that just went by. Since i went through the bank for a wire transfer i'm not covered under Paypal buyer protection (which woulda been nice because that would have covered 1125 of the 1200$ involved) and ebay's protection plan is pathetic (something like 200$). Do i have any other possible legal action for what basically amounts to theft? If i called the local authorities for his area, would they even bother helping out (especially since i'm in Canada and he is in California)? Since it is the easter long weekend and he might have very well gone out of town i'm going to give him till tuesday/wednesday to get back to me before i do something about this. Please advise oh wise group of Porsche Nuts.

If someone won't accept Paypal, I don't bother doing the transaction!!!! That should be a red flag to you. That being said, I've been a buyer mostly, and an occasional seller, and this is not an unusual period of time.....give it a few days, and maybe it'll all work out!!!

Is there nothing the bank can do? When I wired a large sum of money to pay my rent (long story), my bank urged me to call them if there were any problems. I am not sure what they could do, but it might be something to look into. Also, the feedback on the user, was it for the same type of sales? or just small cheap things? If so, then the account might have been hijacked. Kimo

i'll call the bank on monday (r banks open on monday or do they have a 4 day weekend?). the other items for which positive feedback was left were things like mercedes navagation systems. other litronics, AMG rims etc.

Try to work the 'system' first. Do everything you can to make this issue known with the parties involved...seller, Ebay, wiring bank, receiving bank, etc. If you receive no response from the seller by the time you stated then ratchet up your approach... Since the transaction was conducted on line both parties will be bound by the stated terms and conditions of the specific contract or those terms that are published on ebay which govern the transactions conducted on Ebay. I don't specifically know what those are. You need to read and understand them. Again, contact the seller in writing and demand performance via email and if the address is known by the Canadian equivalent of certified, return receipt mail. If that party still fails to supply you with the merchandise your ordered, obviously, he is in breach of agreement. File your claim as specified in Ebay's terms and conditions. They probably have a section on 'disputed transactions'. Study that and begin the process of dispute with Ebay. Even if they claim an amount of liability far less than the tranasaction...file for it anyway. Immediately (tomorrow) contact the bank you made your wire transfer from. See if they can intervene on your behalf. If you believe a breach of contract/fraud has taken place speak with the bank's fraud department. Get the paper work rolling if nothing else. They may be able to claim back the money from the recipient bank, but I wouldn't hold out any hope that this will be done. Hopefully, it is just a simple reason why your goods have not shipped...but I wouldn't waste any more time in getting things started. In the event the party just walks with your money, well, then you obviously have theft which is a criminal charge along with wire fraud and a few other charges such as, I believe, using the internet for criminal activity... The fact you are in Canada does complicate the issue somewhat but I wouldn't concern yourself with that just yet...work on making 'noise' with Ebay, the seller and the wiring and recipient bank... Jim

did you use your atm card to do the wire or did you go to the bank to withdraw $$. If you used a debit or credit card your protected!!

It sounds like you've been scammed. How much info do you have on the guy? PM me the info you have and I may be able to get you his social security number, date of birth, home address, phone #, etc through a friend. I've used this tactic before when I've been had on eBay and you get your merchandise or a refund right away when you tell them you'll post it all on the web if they don't stand up to their end of the deal. FYI, Paypal is a joke. You'll never get them to reimburse you for any fraud. Read the fine print on their website (owned by eBay) and you'll see that the limits are very low, there are deductibles and you have to satisfy so many criteria that there's no way you'll ever see any money from them. I've been through the process with them and they don't care if you got cheated. eBay doesn't care about fraud either. I've called & emailed them before on some clearly bogus auctions and they couldn't care less. Only after the fact will they ban people.

hmm. i'll have 2 ask my accountant since i asked him 2 take care of it for me. chances are that it was put on a company credit or debit card. i'll confirm this on monday.

Sux for you. You should be able to obtain the seller's contact information through ebay, including telephone number. Do a search, like "dispute" or something of that nature. As long as you have the item number, you will get an immediate email with a phone number. Good luck,

Just as Richard said, no matter how great the deal is, I NEVER do business with anybody that does NOT accept Paypal credit card trnasactions that way I am covered by my bank. The only exception to the rule is buying something on eBay from Suncoast, Brandywine, etc. and then just call them direct for CC payment. Still again, covered, but know that those dealers are legit. Echoing what most have said, get his contact info through eBay and get the ball rolling. Your contact with him tomorrow should be to the effect that you are past the point of patience to receive your merchandise and you have not heard from him in some time and have no choice but to start legal action by COB (close of business). Still no answer? PM the info to Holger and have Guido pay the guy a visit. The userID isn't that dendoonlewhila character is it?

Last time I sold something with Paypal it wound up costing about 15%. I'd rather NOT accept paypal unless there is no other way.

Don't see how it cost you 15%. Their fees are 2.9%. It's a trade off though, I feel that the 2.9% is well worth the possiblilty to get more bidders and receive a higher bid on my item thus negating the 2.9% anyway. Doesn't make a differnce at all if you are the buyer. It is the seller that pays those fees.

It sucks to have to do it my way, but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. It's the only thing these thieves understand.

You would have prob been covered at 100% on PayPal if he never shipped it or returned a question asked through eBay's "contact" system. He would have had to produce a tracking number or some other proof of the item being sent. If you did a "Bank Wire" you can kiss the money goodbye, it is very unlikely the bank will reverse it. Did he send you his routing and account numbers? you might save the records and report it to rBay, they may still help you out if he cannot prove he shipped, but it will be a tough battle. If you used a credit or debit card then thats another story and your bank should be able to reverse the charges. If your in Canada then you package just might be going through customs, I shipped a couple items out (international) last week and it seems customs was going very slow. It may show up Monday...

File a mail fraud complaint. That has worked very well for me in the past and the post office now has an internet category of mail fraud. The two times I filed a mail fraud complaint, the other party contacted me and was falling all over themselves with apologies and then quickly lived up to their promises so I would 'call off the dogs' (Postal Inspectors). [Boring details for anyone who is interested: Last Christmas I ordered a Starbucks Gift Sampler from an online merchant other than Starbucks since Starbucks no longer sells coffee online. The website I ordered from had a picture of a beautiful gift box and promised all of the most exciting flavors (like Gold Coast Blend, etc.) what they sent was an old cardboard box full of loose coffees (less than the amount I paid for too) that were all like boring breakfast blend which could not be given as a gift. I contacted them via e-mail about a refund and they ignored me. My credit card company was trying to squirm their way out of it too (should have used American Express) so I filed the mail fraud complaint. A few weeks later the Postal Inspectors sent a letter to the online merchant and cc'd me. Shortly thereafter the online merchant called me, apologized, and let me keep the coffees while giving me a full refund just so I would drop the complaint. (not bad for the ten minutes of work to fill out the complaint) This was a small potatoes $50 complaint, but it felt good not to be screwed.] I'm not sure if anyone else has had good experiences with mail fraud complaints, but I have copies of the letters the Postal Inspectors sent to the other party which threatened them with prison time and that certainly is a good way to motivate someone. Click on this link for more details- http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/welcome.htm

I don't know either, but I sold something for $500 and by the time I was done with this fee and that fee I had less than $450 (approx $428). Not quite 15%, but close enough. I have never sold anything on ebay, only rennlist etc., thus I'm not concerned about bidders. Like I said, I'll take paypal if I have to but I would prefer a cashiers check for large items or even a personal check if it's it's a smaller sum and/or a Rennlister.

thanks fishman. i will look into that. i'll also be filing one with these guys: http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp IFCCFBI which is supposed 2 be some kind of co-operative between the FBI and National White Collar Crime Bureau, that's the link the ebay ppl gave me.

you can go to your PayPal and look in your history to find the transaction and see what they charged you. Was it an international deal? still the fee should be much much lower, Also if your not verified wit ha premier account you may have paid fees to transfer the money out of PayPal, get the premeir account, which does not cost you anything, and you'll only pay about 3%

The seller probably hasn't sent you anything because he hasn't found a car to steal them off of yet...

is it really that easy to steal them?

Removing the headlight assembly is as difficult as opening a bottle of wine. It can be done in seconds once the hood is popped.

let's just say, a car place working on my headlights forgot to screw in one of the screws all the way on one, and the entire headlight fell out on the freeway on the way home... not a pleasant experience.. i don't think they could be any easier to steal..

The pros pop them out in a few minutes without even opening the hood. It's a huge problem in some areas (LA, Miami, etc). Seems the kids retrofit the lights to their ricers. One of the mags had a story on it a few months ago. Really easy money for them to sell on eBay at much higher than street price. Still feeling good about your purchase?

not in particular. damnit..all i wanted to do was get zenon's for less than porsche sells them for... is that too much to ask :'(

I bought mine from B-Wine last year for $1095 on sale. They were selling for that used on eBay!

aw man...how the hell did i miss that. are you talking about the old style ones or new ones?

sorry, I should have clarified. 99-01 style litronics.