PPI & extended warranties

Thanks to everyone in the forum for so much info. I've managed to waste every night this past week just reading endless amounts of info on 911s. I'm thinking of buying my first car and am hoping for a mkI 996 C2 or C4 cabrio . I just had a quick couple of questions and would appreciate some help. I've used the search function but couldn't find answers. 1.) The selection of '99-02 CPO/warrantied vehicles is essentially nil, so I'll at least initially be out of warranty. Also, I recognize extended warranties are likely EV negative and kind of silly given this Porsche will cost <10% of my annual income. With this in mind, my big fear is not in having an unexpected problem, it's in buying a lemon. I really don't want to be inheriting someone else's headaches. So the question is, will a thorough and independent PPI that checks for RMS, etc. pretty much eliminate the lemon risk? If the car has maintenance problems a year later because that's just par for the course, I'm okay with it. I don't want it to break down a year later because I got knowingly sold a POS and didn't realize the PPI wasn't that reliable. 2.) At what mileage/model year do people think warranties go from buying "peace of mind" to buying "vision insurance"? That is, I understand why you will pay through the nose for a warranty that is low probability but insanely high loss (e.g. malpractice insurance). However, the loss of this car won't kill me, so I don't care about a 1% chance it goes kaput. On the other hand, I don't want to be like an elderly person who eschews medical insurance, because at that point it's high probability AND unpredictable loss. If I'm going to be in the shop every year, I don't want to have to continually worry about whether the mechanic is ripping me off, whether repair works is necessary, etc. Judging from people's 911s on Rennlist, it looks like a well-kept 996 should be able to make it to 100k miles if not more. Just wondering how much of that is good engineering and how much of it is, "I had to get this thing fixed every ten minutes after my first XXX miles." 3.) Everyone here recommends getting extended warranties from a local dealer in order to smooth out coverage disputes. But I'll likely be buying my car from the left coast/south. Can I still buy an extended warranty from a local Porsche dealer even if I purchased the car somewhere else? Thanks to everyone in advance. Looking forward to learning more.

First thing is first. The car you are considering is a Porsche 911. The manufacturer's flagship. This car is NOT an inexpensive car to maintain. If this is your 1st car you are going to buy, I think you should re-evaluate your financial position. Even with a warranty, you must factor in the wear items and service intervals. Many of those average between $500-1000 each. I wish you luck. Be sure to read the Ultimate buying guide at the top of this board. best, C.

Buy a newer one at ~20% of your income then and save yourself some worry. Buy the newest one you can afford and get a CPO. PPI's are important but cannot predict any future issues. Documentation on the car is absolutely critical so do everything in your power to discover the history and buy a known quantity. I bought private sale, fully documented car, and it came with aftermarket warranty. I have yet to use it. As to buying a warranty local for a remote car the answer is probably no. Good luck. The right car will feel...right.

It is a German car, not Japanese. It will have some issues over time, but I never read about a 996 being a lemon. I would buy one again and feel confident with my purchase.

Your question was specifically about lemons, not the risk of a sudden, big-ticket failure of some kind, right? Well, at the risk of oversimplifying things, I'd say this: If a car is a lemon, it will have revealed this fairly early in its service life and consistently thereafter. If you find an older car with a decent number of miles on it - so, NOT a low mileage car - and the service history looks pretty routine, you don't have a lemon. You could still have the dreaded lightning strike of engine failure or whatever, but you don't have a car with chronic problems. Just how these things go. A lemon is a lemon right out of the box.

Quotes source post: 5207657

C, thanks for the advice! This will be my first car, but I'm pretty set on spending $25-35k. I could afford more but it would raise eyebrows where I work if a 23 yr old spent more than his boss (we're a Puritan bunch). I'm also trying to save 50% of my pre-tax income for the sake of discipline, trying to be fiscally prudent without being unnecessarily frugal. I guess I could buy a new 3 series, but given I'll mainly be driving this on weekends (I walk to my office), the depreciation curve is pretty punitive. I also have always loved the 911, which is ~50% of my rationale For the 911, '01 and older looks like the best part of the "curve" to play. Looking at MY'99-'01 resale prices, they are where annual % depreciation drops substantially from ~10% to ~6-7% (analysis attached). However, I realize my analysis could be wrong since maybe it's after 7 yrs that 911s require serious overhauls. (I also realize it's not apples to apples, since comparing the price of a MY'99 isn't exactly the same as the 3 yr resale value of a MY'02, etc.) You do raise a good point, which is that I think I greatly underestimated annual maintenance. I was budgeting in ~$500-1k a year assuming I only drive 3-5k miles annually. Is this wildly optimistic? It sounds like that I can expect that per item/service, and I'm not sure how often those come up. I've read the buying guide and will definitely be following Chad's advice. Again, thanks for the input and help.

Ummm can you really comfortably afford this car?

Quotes source post: 5207748

Bruce, thanks a bunch, this confirms what I suspected. Out of curiosity, I understand engine failure is probably the most dreaded and costly repair. Is there a rule of thumb to gauge at what point in the car's age that goes from a lightning strike to a roll of the dice? For example (with made up numbers), buying hurricane insurance for a house in MA is very overpriced, since it's really hard to gauge whether the probability is 0.1% or 1%. And you know the insurance company is going to assume 1% for their modelling, which may be 10x the expected value if it's actually 0.1%! But hurricane insurance in FL is probably pretty decent value, since the probability is hard to gauge but it's more like 5% vs. 10%. This is a larger uknown band (5% vs. 0.9%), but even if insurance assumes 10% it's only 2x the expected value. So is there a mileage point or model year past which 911s go from "being in MA" to "being in FL", e.g. if I buy a '99 that passes PPI, is it Russian roulette to think the engine won't fail w/in 3 yrs? Sorry if this is kinda nerdy, I'm used to posting in poker forums.

Quotes source post: 5208296

Understood. I'm probably going to get this question from my parents when I told them what I bought, so this is good practice. I'm fortunate enough to work in finance, one of the most wildly overpaid careers of all time. I don't mean to be crass by getting into specifics, but I'm expecting $300-400k next year, with the $300k floor contractually guaranteed. Let's just say I also have a very comfortable amount saved, so even if I didn't finance the crap out of this car (which I plan on doing because it's cheeeep), it would be <20% of my net worth. I actually feel like buying a 996 is really conservative, a remnant of my transition from being a financial aid college student to being a working adult. Still, maybe those a little older can attest to whether I realistically should be saving this money for a house or wedding or children or something beyond my immediate "omfg I have $$$!" impulses.

Bro, you're pulling down $8K+ cash per paycheck minimum or over $16Gs a month w/ "a very comfortable amount saved". Unless you got alimony payments up the yin yang, WTF are you doing that makes you so bitter & sweatin' a $30K car? You ugly or something?

Quotes source post: 5208593

Hahaha, yeah I guess that's true. But even then, $30k is still like 17% of my post-tax income. In the last 18 months since I started working, I've never splurged on anything worth more than $3k and all that stuff was new and under warranty. I just want to make sure I'm not taking my money, putting it in a shiny chrome bucket w/ a Porsche logo on it, and then throwing in a match.

That Edmunds chart is way off base. Just try to find a 98 993 for $22.5 that isnt a salvage or 180k miles. I dare you If you are making that kind of coin - just buy a low-mile 2001 for $32k and smile. Get an atermarket warranty though. You may be over-analyzing this my penny-counting friend.

Quotes source post: 5208673

Its not a match. Its more money you will throw into that "used" bucket. Like Chad said, its not a cheap car to maintain. It is a reliable car if its properly maintained though. Making sure you find one with maintainance history says a lot about how the car was cared for. Buying a MK1 is the right choice if you are saving the extra income towards a down payment for a home purchase within the next year or two. You will get a nice appreciation on real estate with that move in the years to come. Get a car that you will can drive the snot out of and enjoy while keeping your other long term goals in check. While we can throw performance numbers around all day, our use of these cars at its full potential will be tested infrequently on the street. At the end of the day, its a car and there is more at the store. we are all here to help you find a nice one. Good luck with your search. You should set aside $10K for fixing little things and maintainance during the first year. If you don't use all of that up and the car is sorted, then mod your pcar with the balance.

went through similar thought process, also was concerned about appearing too free with money in front of my investors & employees. Remember that nobody in the general public knows the difference between a brand new 997, an anniversary edition 996, a '99, or even a 993. They are all 911 Porsches and all cost "a lot" of money in their eyes and your perceived fiscal conservativeness will be limited only to the fact that you didn't buy a Ferrari. Spend an extra 5-10K, your pocket won't know the difference and neither will anyone else, but you'll get a facelift car with a CPO warranty, peace of mind and move on to enjoying the car. or sock away the difference long gold or short cmbx and roll the dice on whether or not you need repairs. You sound like you'll be heading back to school in a couple of years, enjoy the life of an analyst/associate while you can, care free!

I bought my first Porsche when I was about your age and it was 100% of my annual income. I am older and wiser now, but if I thought back then as conservatively as you appear to be doing, my wild younger life would not have been much fun. With what you make, buy a CPO car with the fewest miles you can find from a reputable dealer. That way you have at least two years to sort things out and find out if the car is a keeper or not. There really does not need to be a lot of thinking in that equation. The CPO will protect you from the major expenses. In a perfect world find one with some new car warranty to help you take care of the minor non-CPO items. Just figure out whether you want a cab or a coupe and what color/options you have to have. If I were you with your money, I would be looking for probably a 2003 or 2004 priced around $40,000 with a high of maybe $50,000. If you want to stay under $25,000 and still get a good car, you best look around here and find someone selling their car. While you may not get a warranty, most rennlisters know their cars and the history and while they can't guarantee or predict the future, you would know what you are getting.

Solid, good aftermarket warranties (3 years, 50k miles or so) are about $2000, and can be bought at anytime. CPO DOES have the benefit of potentially eliminating a lot of hassle, but if oyu do your homework, and research, the aftermarkets can give you piece of mind. I'd go for a 2002, pretty much the sweet spot on the real depreciation curve...that's what I'm doing, hopefully tomorrow.

damn man... just buy the car and enjoy it... thats the main reason we bought ours! that alone is priceless!

Quotes source post: 5208768

Again, thanks everyone for all the great advice. It's made me put this purchase in perspective with my income. I did some more digging and found out that car insurance is going to run me $3k/yr and that parking would be $350/month in my building. Given this $7.5k/yr fixed expense, trying to pinch pennies and save $2k/yr on a $35k '01 vs. a $50k warrantied '03 seems kind of silly. Still, there's been a lot of unexpected additions from when I envisioned getting a $35k car, paying $1500 in insurance, and parking for $250! So, I want to make sure I have a good handle on all the potential expenses in order to weigh whether this is worth the 2 days a week I'll be able to drive . If I were to buy an '03 model with low mileage from a reputable dealer and get a 5 yr aftermarket warranty, should I still be expecting $10k for wear/tear/maintenance for the first year? How much should I consider a typical annual expense (e.g. annual service + minimal wear/tear + 30k service/5 yrs)? I'm really hopeful this won't end up being egregiously spendthrift. I've gotten so psyched about the idea of driving a 911 ...

Hey bitterazn, go find a car in your price range and scoop it up. Sounds like you've thought about this purchase thoroughly and you appear to be making some coin....jump in , the water is fine. Buy the newest 911 you can 'afford', have a PPI done, and become a 911 convert, you won't regret it.