If you had an engine failure...

Say you start up your car in a parking lot and you get the dreaded "clank clank". You shut it off and call for a tow. 1. Do you tow to the dealer or your indie? 2. Do you let the local mechanic R&R the engine failure, or do you just get it immediately boxed up and sent to Jake?

Take out the engine in the parking lot, slap it in a friends pick-up, and drive it to Jake's that same night (wherever you are).

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The Boxster (or the Turbo) I have the car towed to the dealer. For the Boxster I'd get a quote on having a factory replacement engine installed. If the price was too high (and I don't know how high is too high -- I have over a $30K chunk of money sort of set aside for this sort of thing but I'm not going to put $30K into a 9 year old Boxster) I'd see if the dealer/service department would be interested in installing an engine sourced from a salvage yard. For the Turbo, I'd have the dealer/service department handle the problem. Car is under CPO warranty until June of this year. Sincerely, Macster.

To my indie to be removed and sent to Jake...

It happens both ways here.. Usually the person wastes time and money if it goes to the Indy shop first, if they can't repair it.. Nothing is worse than us getting cars shipped in, with pieces everywhere.. We can deal with it, and we do.. But the shipping costs more and the job is complicated. There have been times when Indy shops could not repair something but charged the customer for replacing the entire engine, just wasting more of our time and adding costs on this end as well. If it made a clank more than likely its outside the scope of most others to repair.. I hate to say that and we are trying to train people, but most just aren't grasping the differences in these engines very well. If parts are hanging out of the engine, it doesn't take a specialist to determine that it is toast, so those cars don't even need to come this way unless someone wants a fully upgraded FSI engine.

Pull it home to my own place and drop the engine MYSELF and see whats up... Weigh my options and go from there.... Would look for another used engine and if I could not find one.... If the car was paid for, May buy engine from jake If car isnt paid for, part it, pay it off and start over.

Call Chris Powell at Chris's German Auto in Bellevue Jake will confirm this location as the best around this area

Chris has a great team! Jason attended our M96 101 Engine Assembly Class in 2010 and was impressive!

And don't forget, its also an opportunity for an upgrade! You know, while you're in there.

I have CPO so to the dealer, When the CPO expires to Steinel's Autowerks

I'd blame you

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Yep.. Like yours. Lon had a big clunk and the engine shut off.. We found a two piece crank inside :-) He got a great big "Upgrade"!

2 piece crank...was it from a LWFW or just lucky

It did have a LWFW, but it had about 10k racing miles before failure so who knows. If they fail you just have to deal with it, just like any other car out there. No point in crying, put on your big boy pants and handle it.

Agreed... I was more curious about the failure if it was some issue that has been determined as a potential issue, or something unknown - I gotta get me some of them big boy pants

Lon's situation was interesting.. The LWFW with no ability to dampen harmonics cannot be beneficial to longevity, especially on the track as the harmonics have virtually no where to go. We are seeing cracked cranks in 50K mile engines that have only seen street time with cracked crankshafts that are found during our magnaflux process. The component that we are working hardest to develop at the present is the crankshaft and main/rod bearings that will support under and oversizes for rebuild.

so - sorry OP, we are way off topic but can a "cracked" crank be repaired IF the bearings to support it are available?

A cracked crank is a good boat anchor and thats about it.. No repair would be effective.

that's what I figured.... so the bearrings you are developing are for re-grinds? due to spun bearings or wear... if one is cracked it must be replaced and I assume the "new one" will not need any "special bearings"

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The big boy pants wouldn't be to pony up the engine cost, but rather showing said bill to my wife. I suppose it would be time to drive a cheap 1st gen miata til I finish paying the car off and then call Jake about upgrades.

The bearings are a necessity for rebuilds where the crankshaft is deemed re-usable. At the present time if a crankshaft requires machining because of surface finish or bearing failure the crank is junk, even if it is not cracked.. Because there are no bearings to support it's reuse in over/ under sizes. The same goes for the crank carrier, as an example when Lon's crank broke it took out his carrier as well and I had one hell of a time finding one to replace it with. If our oversize OD bearings would have been available I could have align honed Lon's carrier and reused it. The replacement crank we are making comes with it's own rods and rod journals as well as main bearings so none of those parts will have to be purchased from Porsche. The rod bearings are Clevite units that we have used to produce over 600HP from other horizontally opposed engines in the past. This will be the best way all around because a crank, rod and full bearing set will be better and cheaper than just an OEM replacement crankshaft. It takes a while to do, we probably won't have prototypes for another 5 months and then test work begins that will take over a year. I am most concerned with our engine program and having the upper hand so I don't know how long it'll take to find its way to the retail market.. First it has to work.

I've had my 2003 for a month, I initially had enough funds to do the IMS, but I foolishly forgot about the sales tax. The sales tax used the money I had set aside for the IMS. I've been telling myself the IMS won't go if it hasn't gone yet at 77K. Because I'm a worrywart, I'm going to figure out how to do the IMS soon. These engines are just too pricey. Seems like cheap insurance on an expensive engine. Also, helps with resale. I just took the car on a 800 mile trip and I thought about engine failure quite often while going down the road.

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Did you make the upgrade using his busted crank motor or did the crank cause alot more damage making the block unusable?

Dennis, I just saved an engine two weeks ago that had lost an IMS at 122K miles.. It was apart, but still intact and no collateral damage. Here is what I found after I forced the carrier halves apart using techniques developed by cavemen. Here is the full story about Lon's two piece crankshaft from my site http://www.flat6innovations.com/broken-crank soverystout, I used Lon's complete engine. When the crank snapped the carrier retained the carnage well and he shut the engine down quick. There were no other issues with his core engine, so we put it through all of it's other paces and updated it fully. if we reused many more OEM parts in a reconstruction process the collateral damage to pistons, rods and etc would have been more of a big deal. As it is I don't care if those are blown up, because we never reuse them. Here are a couple of pics of what replaced those parts for Lon's engine..

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Nice pictures of the ponies being put in the stable. Just wondering if you have or plan to get one of the crank balancers that spins the crank with pistons flinging for a more accurate balance? You play the matched sets of exact weight pistons rods and rings together right? Any plans for crate motors or do you already sell them?

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Actually we don't feel that is more accurate than the digital balancer that we currently use. These feelings are shared with many of my peers in the Performance Racing Industry as many have changed back to a unit like my Multi-Bal 3000 after having the "new and improved" arrangement. My balancer is incredibly accurate, it was just updated to the latest technology last week and is fully computer monitored. The method that we use now is great for horizontally opposed and inline engines where the engines are inherently balanced, the newer arrangements are more beneficial to "V" type engines that require bobweights to be calculated and balanced. We do all our machine work in house to include dynamic balancing. Thats more like a V engine.. Yep, already sell them, BUT we can't get ahead enough to ever 'stock" them.. We have maintained a 6 month to over a one year backlog for our engines at times. Right now we are at 8 months and getting busier everyday it seems.. Nothing is quick about reinventing the wheel.

As always Jake

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I'm in the same spot. Recently bought a 2003 C4 with 74K miles. Clutch and IMS bearing are both original. The clutch is still good, was going to wait until that went then do everything at once. The PPI noted that the RMS was "bone-dry." Figured if the IMS was going to go, it would've gone by now... But every time I hear a story like this I start to think maybe I should just pony up and get it done now so that I don't have to worry. The lack of solid numbers here makes it a hard decision. Am I betting that I won't get hit by a 1/10 problem? A 1/100 problem? Hard to know for sure.

yes, if this was a $5k-7k engine replacement cost, I might gamble, but $13-$15K would be a real bummer and a real hardship. Also, it will not be recouped at resale. A total loss unless I just kept the car indefinitely

Its mechanical. There are no absolute figures except the fact that all engines will fail in some way, at some point. There are no percentages available because no one knows exactly how many engines were built, how many failed and how many are still alive. The data to support percentage calculation thats accurate simply does not exist.

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Lucky for me, my wife shares the love of the sport. Otherwise I'd be done. Long story short, I didn't even get a season out of the car before it broke. At least I had a good business year, so I could afford the repair and upgrades. Last season was a blast over 1k track only miles and no hiccups. We built the motor so it will keep doing that for a long long time. This car will never have a good ROI, but thats not the point. Many of my local peers keep saying to get out and get a spec this or that, but as they say "There is no replacement for displacement". I got kind of a late start in this game and I'm not over the noise and power factors yet! Nothing like a Flat 6 flat 6 at 7k, with open pipes! Regarding the balancing, whatever Jake does works, it was never as smooth as it is now. You can stand a dime on edge and it won't fall over.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...Q5fAccessories This would be a tempting, albeit challenging alternative. A couple compaines are doing the conversion. Any pros or cons from the experts?

mfletch, Lon's engine makes more power than that 997 engine, has maintained a retrofittable/ maintainable IMS bearing and has real forged pistons and billet connecting rods. His engine is the same displacement as that 3.8/997 and required no conversion and associated challenges. It was built by one pair of human hands and Made in America. In Lon's case that was the same pair of hands that typed this message. Thats as much the brains and hands taking the corrective action as the machine thats used to do the work. I believe in balance index like none other, even Lons pressure plate bolts are indexed to position. Everything matters.

Jake, thanks for taking the time to reply. The forged pistons and billet connecting rods are good selling points. The made in America part is my favorite. I would love to see how much power you can get from the 3.4 engine (I see from your website that you get 450 out of the 3.6...amazing), while still remaining N/A.

340 HP with the 3.4 on Flat6 web site. I'm not sure what the total cost would be, but I do bet it is sweat motor.

My guess is 40+ HP would make a big difference in a 99-01. The 25HP option seems attractive as I think that would be a nice increase. Just not as nice as 40!!!!

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If you own a M96 engine go to LNengineering.com NOW & find your nearest authorized IMS bearing upgrade installer phone # & put on your cell phone speed dial.

We very, very seldom keep engines at 3.4 loters that come at that factory displacement. Why? Because it costs the same to go to a stage 1 3.6 using the upgrades and technology that we apply. We ONLY use LN Nickies cylinders and helped develop them. We only use JE forged pistons as well, sop these parts cost the same no matter what the bore size would be. Because of that I've NEVER updated a 3.4 engine and kept it at 3.4L displacement. I was able to tune and upgrade a 3.4 to the point necessary for my Wife to set four Land Speed Records in her 996, all of which still stand today. 152 MPH in a standing mile isn't bad from a stock 3.4 that we only did some "enhancements" to. The best part is those records are held in a class where the engine could be as large a 4.0 liters, she didn't need the extra displacement at all. As a 3.6 the car would have been too fast to pass tech and would have needed a new cage with larger diameter tubing and more pick up points as everything changes after 155 MPH, which is the reason we kept it a 3.4. These engines respond very well to detailed assembly and upgraded parts at the time of total reconstruction.

As my concerns grew about the IMS after a month of ownership on my 2003, I tracked down the previous owner by the title. ( I purchased through a dealer). At the time of purchase I felt a PPI was sufficient because there were no service records. PPI indicated no leaks. Luckily, the previous owner called today and agreed to send me all of the service receipts. He assured me he was meticulous with maintenance. Last fall he had a complete clutch/flywheel replacement done. BUT didn't replace IMS. SO....I'm still on for the IMS. But at least I don't have to buy a new clutch.

The problem with the majority of PPI evaluations is the fact that a checklist is used that is too general and does not explore the engine in depth enough based on the M96 engine issues. A true, comprehensive PPI of the engine is an extensive procedure that should be 2-3X as detailed as the common checklists direct. It should include oil sump inspection, leak down and compression tests and much more. I have done these for folks in the past and it literally consumes more than a full day of shop time to carry out. I have had many failure calls from folks who own cars that were bought 2-3 weeks prior and then experienced an engine failure, despite having passed an extensive PPI at the time of the transaction. One of those failed when the fellows wife picked the car up at the vehicle transporter on her way home! Anything mechanical is a toss up, you can't realistically expect more than that here in the real world. The sad part is some people KNOW that the car they are selling is on it's last life because of some things that may have occurred with it in the past. These cars are sometimes sold less than honestly by folks that are forced to sell or spend money that don't have when the bubble finally busts. I have seen lots of instances where we are asked to make patch up repairs to make a car "sellable" so someone could unload it. We refuse to do this and tell those folks that we'll invoice them for our time spent for diagnosis and we'll pack the car and its parts up and send them home. I have no desire to deal with someone that lacks integrity and my company will not be part of "hosing" the next buyer.

Jake, you are a lucky guy to have a wife that shares your passion for cars. It is nice to see from what you have written and testimonials on your website, that you value integrity and your's is not for sale. I don't mean to be dense, but how much of a powser increase are you able to get using a 3.4 non-egas engine as your starting point? Thanks.

Yes I am lucky and she is a damn good accountant as well! She also lets me pull all nighters at the shop atleast once a week :-) The 3.4 can be made into my 3.6 or even a 3.8 with our combinations. A stage 1 3.4 to 3.6 makes 270 RWHP, Stage II makes 290 RWHP. I expect a stage III at 3.6 soon to make over 300 at the wheels when I apply and optimize some new camshaft profiles that I've developed. What we do to the engines levels the playing field related to what the engine was in stock form. Of course the overall goal is to achieve absolute reliability and increase longevity. The power is just added incentive for the purchaser to buy something with my name on it, nothing trumps solving the issues related to these engines. You can't win the race if you can't reach the finish line.

Seventy horsepower over stock, while still naturally aspirated is incredible. My dream car has always been the MK1 GT3, that was never sold in the US. Your engine sounds like a viable alternative, especially if you address the reliability issues that have always made our engines the "red headed stepchild", compared to the GT1 based engines. Any luck increasing the usable rpm range? Thanks for taking the time to respond.

My power enhancements are all done to increase the usable RPM range. We make 70HP more than factory but never rev the engine higher than the peak RPM of the stock engine. All of our power is made between 2-6.5K RPM and the torque is also increased with a flat curve. It would be easy to make an even higher HP engine that only makes HP and does so at an RPM that is un-usable. Those engines only do well on the dyno, they drive like crap and are worthless at anything less than WOT. It is my goal to make the engine drive like a stock engine on steroids, thats how we keep all the pros and don't create any cons at the same time. Thats hard to do and took years to perfect. We even maintain stock MPG or even more, especially on stage 1 engines. The only cons are: -It takes me a minimum of 6 months to produce one (backlog is huge, and Rome wasn't built in a day) -The cost of admission is a minimum of 18K

I have 14 months left on my CPO....and I'm starting to save now for the Stage II 3.8 XR51 My care was PPI'ed, it's CPO'ed...and it's been back to the dealer 5 times since last July :\ Frankly, I almost want the IMS or engine to crap out before my CPO runs out. sean

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I think if I was putting a bastard engine in a 996 it wouldn't be an M97, it would be one of these : http://www.turnkeyenginesupply.com/E...4&key=packages but the total cost of the build is probably a lot more than the LNE upgrade.

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Jake, thanks for making this thread way more interesting than I expected! Do you think these engines could be made strong enough to run to 8k or 8.5k RPM reliably? The extra rev range may not be necessary, but it sure would help on the track if you could run through the revs without shifting in certain spots.