Air-cooled drivers now water-cooled owners, your thoughts please

For those that made the move from a air-cooled car to the 996, can you please give me some feed back. I am looking for something I can daily drive in comfort, through snow, rain ect.... not looking for a slammed track machine. When I had my 993, maybe it was just that specific car but it did not live up to my expectations. My 1973 911 was more fun. The 993 was 100% reliable though. Power was ok but nothing impressive, US transmission gearing was not great (I regeared the transmission, still stuck with lousy 1st-2nd shift though) . Very harsh suspension, would bang into expansion joints on bridges . stressful. I am thinking of trying a stock 964 but at the same time, I am thinking maybe its time for a water cooled 996c4 or 996tt. 996 questions- How is the stock gearing on a manual transmission carrera? Is the stock suspension decently comfortable for north eastern roads? How does the 996 engine power compare to the 3.6L air cooled? does the 996 speed effortlessly on the highway? My 993 never had that smooth effortless feel on the highway, if that makes sense. maybe it was because of the WEVO solid engine mounts. I guess what I am asking is, if you were looking for a comfy daily driver, is the 996 C4 the car?

964 VS 996

so let me get this right...its air cooled TO water cooled.... not the other way around ..... right?

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Yes, thats pretty much it. I have had air-cooled cars but never a 996, I have never even driving one. I would like to hear from those that made the move from a air-cooled car to a 996 OR if they went from a 996 back to a air-cooled car, WHY?

So lemme get this straight... it's from Air to water.. not both Just kidding around... You need to drive a 996, great car and a blast to drive, very civilized daily driver. From what you describe I think a 996 will fill the need and you cant beat the prices these days.

well make up my mind dammit!! see I went from water to air and now are I is was confuseded

I own both a 964 and a 996 C4, both are cabrios and fabulous cars. Each one has its own virtues. Neither lacks power and are great rides. Obliviously, the 996 is a newer more sophisticated car. But like all things this a personal decision and you need to test drive one and decide for yourself.

I would like to second the "go drive one (or more)" personally I would take that 964 over that 996 - but that is me....as for daily driving the 996 is sure nice... some have heated seats and cup holders. Very nice indeed... I miss my 996 some days. It was smooth and fast and a real head turner...my 3.2 is old and only "mostly" put together, some knuckle head pulled ou the carpet and installed some crappy sport seats, it is noisy and smells - but those are the things I love about it too...they are very differant animals and I feel happy to have owned a 996, I would buy another one... but not if I have to choose between the two... if I only get one car...its air-cooled for me (keep in mind I DD my car BUT have a back up car for days when it is down, which is much more then the 996) hope that is useful

Ask me Thursday... Picking up my 2002 C2 Cab after running an 88 Carrera for the last 5 years.

After 25 years in Air-cooled 911, and 4 in water cooled, my opinion: If I could afford only one 911, and it is my daily driver, I would take the 996. The Air-cooled 911s are more Sport. The Watercooled more GT. One thing it has that Air-cooled 911 do not have is a button on the dash that when activated will make the car meat locker cold if desired. It will do this in traffic on a 90 degree day without overheating. In the winter it will make heat and defrost the windows better. It will drive the interstate like a Buick if desired and turn into an aggressive sports car in the twisties. It is not nearly as visceral as the air-cooled car. You feel more involved with an air-cooled car. They feel more connected to the original 901.

We find that the old school air cooled enthusiasts have much less M96 engine issues than those who are "new" to the character of a Porsche....

Grew up aircooled, rode home from the hospital the day after I was born in a 356 SC... I have owned a dozen aircooled 911's, the only one we still have was 90% track with a 315hp 3.4 race motor in it (efi). Love the car to death. However, in our driveway is a 06 Cayman S (moddified a bit, but a brilliant car), a 99 996 (being turned into a race car) and a 05 Cayenne turbo (silly fun SUV). I love the sound and feel of the aircooled cars, and was considered completely "hardcore aircooled". But, the newer water cars are excellent vehicles. Make great power, handle very well, comfortable, have heat/ac that are modern, have all of the right pedal feel. Our 996 with factory aero kit, lsd, lightronics, sport seats, ruf wheels was purchased for about the same money as a good 3.2 Carrera........ I don't care much for the dash look in the 996 but prefer the earlier headlights this one has compared to the later ones. For the Cayman S, I love everything about the car, it rocks. The Cayanne, just makes me laugh out loud everytime I push the right pedal to the floor when some kid in his ricemobile tries to take me off the line.... And yes, it laps pretty well on the track too..

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Compared to the 993, the 996 does speed effortlessly on the hwy. Furthermore, the gearing is perfectly set up ratio-wise. The 996 engine has decent torque to accelerate effortlessly as well for a DD. I have owned pretty much owned all eras of 911s except for 74-77 911S and 993 variants, although I have driven them. While the 993 is one of the best exterior designs, I didn't like its driving feel. Therefore, your comments on the 993 resonated with me. OTOH, I really enjoyed a modified 993TT and would love to experience a properly setup 993 Cup car. I also like your comment on 73 911S; I miss my early S track car at times...as well as a same model year 914. If I was in a market for a DD in Canada, a 996 C4 would be considered. I do drive a 996 C2 as a DD. I tried an 86 911 as a DD and it didn't really work for me. Interestingly enough, it wasn't the HVAC that got me; it was the tranny notchiness, floor-hinged pedals and steering that led to an eventual re-purchase of my old 996 (ex-ivangene's). Besides, the wife didn't enjoy riding with me on the 86 - the clincher. Judging from your 993 comments and looking at the air-cooled 911s in your owned list, I think I understand where you're coming from. I believe you will like a 996 as a DD. As others said, a proper drive should confirm it for you. I also suggest a longer drive test than the usual 15 minute exercise. I have come to appreciate these cars as a true 911s despite the significant changes from the early 911s.

I actually love 964s and 993s. Test drove both of them and had a HUGE smile on my face after finishing up with the 964. It felt GREAT to drive. But I knew this car was going to be used daily and since summers here are hot I needed a working A/C. I drove the 996 and didn't expect much. Since I had heard it drives like a Toyota I was ready to be disappointed. But surprise, surprise! It had more power, handled the curves just as well, and didn't look as bad as I thought it did in pictures. Granted mine has a sport exhaust so that helps give it some more of that Porsche feel but I just thought it suited my situation better. Once I get a bigger garage I'd love to have an air-cooled in there to compliment the 996. But it would be my fun car and not something I use every single day. Still can't forget how that 964 made me feel after all...I thought my face was going to crack in half because of the smile I had from ear-to-ear.

If you look at my list you can see what I've owned. Without a doubt the 993 C2 was the most fun to drive in terms of handling. The 993 turbo with its original suspension felt heavy and unresponsive. This has beeen cured by the PSS10. However, neither of these cars were particularly good as daily drivers. Mainly because of the smaller cabin, crummy AC and a wife that hates sports seats. ( not the car's fault ). As a DD I thoroughly enjoyed the 996 C4S. Had lots of power, handled reasonably well AC is great and wife loved it. Unfortunately, I bought a low mileage 6 year old car with a CPO and the engine let go. This car was replaced with the 996 turbo. A dream car. All of the advantages of the C4S with unbelievable power. Stock suspension on it now but my wrench tuned it so it handles pretty well. Not as good as the 993 turbo of course but pretty darned good. Given the prices on the 996 turbos now, you can't beat them. As an aside, if you are looking for a comfy ride look elsewhere. On our crummy roads, I feel every bump in both of my cars. But I'm not looking for a comfy ride. I've had a bunch of those and am not longer interested.

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I couldn't agree more after 23 years of air cooled cars. My 95 993 C2 was much more visceral and connected to the road. It was a barely okay daily driver, but couldn't have been too bad since I drove it for 8 years... Your experiences (OP) with the 993 are not typical in my mind. I have driven many, many 993 and I would never characterize them as quite so anemic as you describe your experiences. It sounds as though your car was modified way out of line with your tastes, and, regarding the power, the cam timing was off, or the VRam was not functioning, which is not atypical of some of those cars. When the timing is on and the engine is well-maintained and in tune, those cars have lot of power. ...Although not as much as a 996, of course. I too have an affinity for the 73 911S- it is one of my all-time favorite cars. Everything an early 911 should be and more! I love my 996 C4 Cab as a DD. Do I miss my 993? Heck yes, but I don't miss the miserable commute. Drive a few and see what you think. Best of luck with your search. Cheers, Tom

From a former 993 daily driver: - The 996 gearing is like Euro gearing on a 993. A $5k+ mod on a 993, comes free with your 996 purchase. - The stock suspension (on my C4S, so like M03 on a C4) is more comfortable and works better overall, even on 18s vs 17s. I suspect the more rigid body helps there. Also the stock dampers don't wear out in 20k miles. The only car I've ever owned where I didn't feel the need to upgrade the suspension. - The 3.6L 996 engine has more peak power, but vastly more mid-range power than a non-vario 993. - Much easier highway driving. Much more relaxing drive overall.

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Thank you for all the thoughtful replies. I have been doing some brain storming and I am leaning towards a 996Turbo. Here is one 996Turbo that looks interesting http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national So, did you pick up your 996 yet? I look forward to hearing your feed back I still remember your picture you posted of your 993 at the fuel station at night in the winter. So the 996 is more enjoyable to drive in the same conditions then? It sounds like there is no regrets selling your 993 then. I have to say I am liking what your saying on the 996 from the suspension to the transmission gearing.

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Yes - picked it up on Thursday. Although I have only driven it for an hour or so, initial thoughts: 1 - Woohoo - this thing is FAST! I was absolutely shocked how quickly the car got up to speed from a full stop, and even more impressed with transition from just cruising along to full warp speed. 2 - this thing is HEAVY. Good thing for point #1 above because this car definitely is a lot heavier than my old car. I haven't done a lot of playing around in corners, etc, but you can definitely feel the weight difference in the cars. 3 - this thing warms up quickly - one of the things that used to annoy me about the 3.2 was the 10 to 15 minute warmup time for the engine. I probably babied the car a bit too much, but I was always careful not to rev the engine much past 4k until the oil was up to temp. The 996 temp is stabilized in 3 to 5 minutes. 4 - this thing is QUIET. Note - the previous owner of my 3.2 decided to put a dual outlet GHL muffler on the car shortly before I bought it, so it is much louder than stock. It sounds awesome, and it does not drone at any particular rpm range, but the noise at idle and just cruising can get a little over the top (especially if you ask my wife). The 996 is very quiet at idle and at normal revs. However - the 996 definitely growls when you punch it, and this is especially satisfying with the top down. 5 - this thing is civilized. A Cupholder, a stereo that actually sounds decent, HVAC controls that do not require a two week training course (did you know that there are four autonomous fan systems in a 3.2 Carrera?), trip computer, etc Overall, I am impressed with the car. However - as others have noted, the earlier cars give you a much more "connected with the road" feeling. The 996 is definitely a more refined machine, whereas the single word I would use to describe the 3.2 is "raw". If I could afford to keep both cars, I would do so in a heartbeat. Since I can only afford one, and it is my daily driver, the 996 wins hands-down. Now - excuse me, but the sun is out, and even though it is only 8 C outside, I am going for a topless spin around town.

Have had two 911s - last wa a 91 C2 Cab - Current Carrera C4 Coupe was putchased for same reason you suggest - All-weather Driver. You will be very pleased - I am. Note: I do not have the standard supention so I suggest you stick with Stock for those bad roads. If I had this car back east I would back date to the stock coils.

Seeing you are in Canada there is the 4 wheel 911 C4's. It's no kidding about a/c that works and doesn't fry the engine and the heat works.