What is a fair offer on this car

Well I've been searching high and low for a 996 and I think I've finally found the perfect car for me...well really it's down between two but the primary car I'd like to put an offer on has lots of modifications and I don't want to insult the guy with a lowball offer. The car: 1999 C2, Silver on black, 6 speed, 24,000 miles, factory aero package, factory sport package, coilovers, color matching bra, Champion 3 piece 19' wheels, exhaust of some sort. I'm still awating paperwork with all of the details on the car. The guy purchased and had everything installed (wheels, suspension, exhaust) by Champion motorsports. He states there's 10-12K in aftermarket parts on the car. Realistically KBB and Edmunds say the car is worth 37 from private party and suggested retail is up to 43. so split the difference and say it's worth 40. Is offering .50 on the dollar for mods an insult. I'm thinking of offering 45 but don't want to insult the guy...but at the same time there's no way that a bank will even loan me 45 on that car so I'll have to come out of pocket for the rest and 5K is a large chunk of change (for me right now). Thoughts? I'm also looking at a 2000 aero package black on black car with 18' turbo twist wheels..BUt it's got twice as many miles...is in nowhere near the condition of the silver car...AND more importantly I will eventually do all of the mods that are on the silver car (maybe not the exact same choices) hence buying the mods already on the car will likely save me money in the long run. Andy

$45K is high money for a 1999...Mods almost never add value to the car--if you really love the mods, then you can make an offer. I'd say $40K, and I'd make SURE that he has full records and you get a PPI done. Don't let him rope you in on the mods because he will typically have a harder time finding someone who wants the mods. If he expects to make up his money he can part it out. KBB/Edmunds don't do a great job on valuing pCars really either, so take those values with somewhat of a grain of salt... It's a buyers market for 996s [and most Porsches except classics for that matter], so any figure isn't going to insult him, just be patient and be careful--there are many examples out there so you can afford to be picky. Good luck and let us know what happens.

Most mods really don't add much value in the real world. I'd have a hard time paying anything over $35K for a '99.

Agree, 35 max on a good day, mods REDUCE the value of a car. There are a lot of cars out there, unmodded/virginal for that same price range. Hell, you should be able to get a decent '00/'?01 for that kind of bread. Let him keep it for that price, besides it's more fun to mod it yourself!

What ventoGT said. $40k. Make sure you get the stock exhaust too in case you ever have trouble smogging or selling it later on. The prices you mentioned are largely based on low mileage adjustments. Although the car maybe primo, it's still hard to move unless he trades it at $30k.

I really wish the guy would part the silver car and sell it to me stock..save for maybe the coilovers and GT3 sways....BUT he won't. Hell he's not even a "computer guy" so when I asked for an e-mail with more pictures and a full description of the car he told me they would be sent out via USPS the following day!!! But it is owned by an older gentleman and in absolutely pristine condition form all accounts on my 10 minute lookover. My main problem is I cannot find a NICE Aero Package car here in the midwest at all...let alone for a reasonable price. The black 58K mile car is admittedly not in great shape on the exterior...but maybe I'll go take a look in person to decide for myself. but I also have to realize that it's going to require a 60K service nearly immediatly...AND at least coilovers to start with...then starts the never ending battle of throwing money at it until I'm finally happy with the car. Maybe if it had sport seats or something else I was looking for I'd be more enticed. I am baffled every time I sit down and look at the paperwork on my A4 and E46 M3 and really realize how much I spend on Mods...it's truely amazing how quickly the money disappears...I guess for a moment I figured that buying one already modded nearly how I want it might have been a "smarter" idea. Thanks for the input guys...maybe I'll look at the black car and see if I can take it home for 33-35k. Any worries about a 58K mile car that I should be really concerned about?

why don't YOU buy it and part out what you don't want to regain a few $?

Another perspective....as a midwest dweller I feel your pain. The fact is the prices everyone talks about here really seem to apply to high supply areas like the east and west coast. Purchasing a "local" car in the midwest usually results in higher prices. I have also found that the cars owned by older P-car fanantics that live in the midwest are priced higher than the average off lease/auction car forsale via autotrader. The other factor never really discusse here is options. Certain options are difficult to find and the prices of cars with these options reflects this. For example, look for a C2 00-01 with PSM. There are not many and the ones that exist are in rather high demand and the prices indicate this. The fact is there are many 996's with little to no options for sale. These cars regardless of the mileage do not fetch/demand a high price and really drag down the average pricing of these cars. Not to mention the '99 model year is rather strange in itself. There seems to be a rather large number of bare bones cars with very few options on them for sale. Finding a well optioned, well care for car for $35k or less is luck. Another factor to consider is that not everyone looking to buy a Porsche reads Rennlist or any other Porsche specific web site and many buyers do not have the gloom and doom out look for the pricing of the 996. Just a little different perspective. Find the nicest car you can within your budget that will make you happy and get it. Modifications in general do not increase the value of the car however, if you know you going to do the modification anyway then it does have a value to you. For example, a coilover set up will cost you $3k+ to install....but you find a car with the set up you want. It is priced $2k over the magical Rennlist determined price of $35k for the car. You find another car in the exact condition without the coilovers priced at the magical Rennlist price of $35k...which is the better buy? For some here it would be the $35k car, for you it might actually be the $37k car because you know you would spend over $3k adding the coilovers to the #35k car. The interesting thing is the price of a car is determined by supply and demand not want a book or web site says. Just because a bunch of 99 996's are selling for $35k does not mean the car you want is going to sell for that price.

35K MAX, 99 has less power and a couple of bugs. Mods are a personal choice, it should not be a buying decision... Good Luck

I actually bought my 02 from Michigan. In pockets of the midwest that are more affluent, you can find good supply of 996 for low prices since demand is lower. There are lots of wealthy people who lease for business and tax reasons so pre-own or 3rd party sales in such areas are often low on prices. Aerokit makes 99-01 look nicer. I'd not buy a 99-01 without an aerokit myself. I'd make a sincere offter on the silver based on what everyone has said after seeing and inspecting the car. If the car is near driving distance, have him meet you 1/2 way at a reputable dealer to get it inspected. If it's far, have it inspected at a shop you trust and then fly to see it or have someone check it out. You can often split PPI w him too. Don't be discouraged w someone that isn't up to speed on computer. It makes his car harder to move which improves your chance of getting it. So a little research on the car history too. Service hisotry and RMS past are not to be taken lightly. Any dealer can pull warranty records w a VIn so you can get any RMS history from 99-02 at least (4yr warranty). Coolant expansion tank leak and tranny issue are also common issues.

A blanket statement that mods do not add value to the car is incorrect. Several years ago I sold an AWD + turbo Eclipse GSX with many power mods for $15k. KBB on the car was $10k. That's a significant percentage increase on the price of the vehicle. I've also sold an M3 with about $6k in mods for roughly $3k over KBB. The GSX took one week to sell, the M3 took six weeks. If the seller of the silver is willing to wait it out, he is likely to find a buyer who wants exactly those mods and will pay accordingly.

I've found that high end cars sell easier as stock while cars under $20k wiill have easier time selling with mods.

The general rule is to price it out on edmunds with the options and mileage an necessary area adjustment. Then you take all of the parts and get the average value of the aftermarket parts, or what the fmv is of the parts - ebay is great to provide this amount, AS USED, usually half new. Add it up and you may necessarily detract a bit for having all the crap on it making the car harder to sue or you may not depending on the demand you think it would garner. VIOLA

Andy, to support your offer, you could always print out this thread, and show it to the seller.

I would offer 35-37 for that car. Remember, you would have NEVER put the exact mods and paid the same price he did. Nobody is going to pay even close to $.50 on the dollar for used mods that make more sense buying new. Let him know that you didn't want the mods, he did. I would still probably pay $40K if it was EXACTLY everything I wanted in a 996 but the model year 99 and the amount of mods he wants to recoup is what would make me run. Trust me, he doesn't want to have to pay to have mods taken off and will end up selling them with the car.

What is everyone talking about with the "mods" on this car?? This thread makes it seem like the car he's looking at is ready for the cover of Import Tuner. Coilovers, exhaust and wheels suddenly vounts as "tons of mods"? That's crazy. I certainly dont agree that those mods would REDUCE the value of the car. At the end of the day, make the offer you think the car is worth. If he doesnt take it, then you have to find a different car. If the market is as bad as the folks here believe, he will JUMP on your lowest offer. Personally, I would never accept the $35k that a lot of folks here feel is the MAX value of a well maintained, well optioned, 99 aerokit in a good color (my car, coincidentally). I'd rather just do dealer trade in at that point. I was recently considering a 997S and was offered $32k from the dealer. When you factor in the tax saved on the next car you're buying due to trade in value, you're almost breaking even selling to a stranger except you get all the hassle of dealing with them and none of the convenience of trading in.

What's he asking for the car? You never said, and it sounds like you had a wide range between $35k and $45k. Rather than guessing, see what he's asking. You'd hate to offer $45 if it turns out he was only asking $42. If he's asking $50, then you know he's not in the same ballpark. Ultimately, you should offer what you feel is the right price for the car, but if you're worried about insulting him then ask him to name his price first.

Not sure about NYC where you live but here in CA, there is no tax savings when you trade in. Trade in value is not deducted from your purchase price directly when calculating taxes. Taxes are based on the price of the new car alone. As for your trade in value of $32k, if that car can be sold for 10% more ($3k), most would sell in 3rd party if it's easy to sell at $35k and there is no reduction in sales tax.

Well we were simply talking about the car, I was showing intereste and he was talking about wanting to add a 993 Turbo or a carrera cup car to his stable. This was all while at the track at a PCA event. One thing lead to another and he said that he'd put a packet of information on the car together and send it to me. I asked what he wanted for the car and it took him a second to reply "I don't know.....50?"...in a questioning tone like he really didn't know on the spot what the car was worth. So I'm figuring that our initial conversations are just that...he's of the mindset that he wants to sell but also in the position that he doesn't need to...hell his wife drove this car to the track and they brought a 993 race car to the track in an enclosed trailor behind a 40 ft. motorhome. I'm sure he's not desperate for money BUT when he threw out the $50K figure I'm not too sure that he wasn't just tossing out a high number to do just that. I hope to have all the information about the car in hand Monday or Tuesday at which point I'll better determine if this is really a car worth spending 40-42K on or not. I think that you guys here have helped to convince me that anything over that is just not a good price. There is another car as I previously stated that I'm likely going to look at on Monday (5 hours away though)...Aero Package, black on black and 18' turbo look wheels...but it has no other options, no sport, no xenon, no full leather, and while I know I can likely buy the car for 34-35 I'm a bit more hesitant about a high mile car esp since it will nearly immediatly need it's 60K service. The owner admiditly states there's no dings or dents but that the front is badly rock chipped and he recommends a respray of the front bumper.

Wow, $50K? I paid that for a stock '02 with 20K miles and 2 yrs of warranty left - 18 months ago. In spite of the mods and what they would cost to do if you were to buy a "virgin" '99, I would tell the guy he's dreaming......and move on. As someone said, there is a good supply of cars out there. In the northern US, you also will find guys selling cars rather than storing them for the winter. Buy over the next few months, not in the spring. And if you can afford $45-$50K, I would go find an '02 (3.6L = more HP!).

$40k-$42k if you like the car and it's clean with low miles seems very reasonable. Coil overs, wheels, power adds, will cost a great deal more than that............ If you like it buy it. Start low and work your way up if required......

What is your car worth now?

Even better, your car looks awesome and Targa's are hard to find! How much for your car? What's it worth? It looks great!

Dallas, great looking car man...care to point me towards a few full size pictures of your car?

Thanks Audi, the car your shopping would bring an easy $40k on ebay if everthing is right so I don't think I'd worry too much about it. Many people will be more than happy to payup for a car that's been setup well. As for $35k, maybe a box stock non aero car, but not the car you are describing.

Just what I thought, both of those dolts won't step up to the plate. CRAWDADS. Call it as you see it. Audi, buy what you want, don't listen to some of these blowhards.

Probably more than what I paid for it - I've put about $8K into it (GT3 rims, new tires, Boothe caps, full carbon fiber, Fabspeed muffles, new radio, red belts coming). Although when my warranty expires next June, I expect it will take a hit.