Anyone else notice the C4S value tank?

I bought my 2003 C4S with 59K miles in March this year. At the time it was booking for 35K. I just kbb'd my car again with 61K miles and it's booking for only 27K

Krazy, is that you?

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We'll I do get kind of crazy every now and then, but I'm not known as Krazy if that's what you are asking

Huh! traded my 05 C4S Tip for a 997 and got mid-thirties. Tank? Don't think so, as a few k more than they offere me i 10~11~12.

I was about to do the same (upgrade to a 997), and thought I had a substantial abount of equity. Was planningon selling it for at least 32K, but how the hell did the car depreciate 8 grand in just 9 months??? I only added less than 3000 miles..

You can get boxsters for $5k now. $10k 996 MK2 is a year or two away. $35k is a lot of money to pay for a 10 year old car, your low mileage is irrelevant. Depreciation will continue for 996s. The fear-mongering that takes place on this forum does not help the value of the car one bit. IMS, RMS (LOL oil leak), chain tensioners, flat6 posts about billion modes of failure, clutch, tiptronic sucks, C4 cars have bad front differential that can only be had in one piece from Porsche, must drop engine for the 3rd time this year to do PM, clutch failed again must do IMS, RMS for $5k while it is out, my car is now worth peanuts ****.....Where or what are the catalysts that would prop up the value of the used 996 cars? Average motorist that visits this board will be instantly discouraged from considering 996 as his vehicle of choice if he does any reading here. Replacement engine and parts prices from the dealers and prominent Porsche shops only exacerbate the problem. Paying $15-20k for an engine in a $25k car is madness for any rational person. If 996 was a stock, it would be BBRY but not yet ENE. Majority of the analysts (posters) would be 100% bearish on the prospects of the stock and would constantly voice the concerns about the health of the company while encouraging their clients to SELL.

I love my C4S. It's value is in my lust for it, it's handling....PSE sounds when I romp through the gears. Fun personalizing projects, my daily drives are fan frickingtastic. Don't look at KBB, don't care. It's not a trophy or investment...I treat her like the hot biatch she is. Why worry that the hot woman you are having dinner with is going to be a day older tomorrow ? Eat drink and be merry my brothers for we have no guarantee of tomorrow.

I bought my 996 in July, it has dropped $9k also according to KBB. I'm going to dump it and get a Cayman..

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Hah because that won't depreciate. I'm guessing this is a seasonal thing more than anything else.

I agree with Seeeu911. I bought my car to drive, not as an investment. It's worth more to me than I'd get for it as a trade at my local dealer. This is one (among many) reasons that I prefer to buy high-end cars that have higher mileage than many people would consider. The depreciating value of the 996 has made a fantastic sports car available to a large group of people. Those who appreciate the car for what it is will benefit from this trend.

Thanks to all that have replied. Just to clarify, I didn't buy the car as an investment, but definitely more of a gateway into a Porsche 911. I had my eyes on a 997 from the start but they were slightly out of reach. When I bought my C4S for $35k (plus tax), my down payment got me to finance only 28K. So my plan was to have paid down enough to have a decent amount of equity for a down towards a 997 next year. Well now that the car depreciated by about 8 grand, I am no where closer, if not further from getting my 997 than I was back in March. I love this car make no mistake, got the 60K mile service done at the dealership and also all 4 brand new tires. But again, it comes down to my personal goal.

The drop could be the fact that the 10 year milestone has been reached and finally factored in NADA is typically a bit higher.

Is there any seasonality with these cars? Is there merit to think the current value you see in KBB or NADA reflects lower demand this time of year?......And the debate of book value vs. market value. No offense to anyone reading who may, but I think there are people who buy based on a book value and pass up good cars because they get hung up trying to buy at or under book. I think a year from now if you can wait you'll have plenty of equity. Plus a year of depreciation on the 997's will help get into one. Wait a little longer and we <gasp> may even see a rise in value of our crappy 996's!!...tee hee.

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I would bet there's seasonality there, just because the book values are backstopped by auction sales... and used dealers in northern states won't exactly be fighting to pick up summer-tired sports cars for their lots.

Don't worry about kbb, look at ads on the internet. I'm thinking I got a good deal on my '03 C4S, and could make a few bucks if I sold it 3 years later... 2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red

On the contrary, I keep up with prices by looking at what local dealers are asking. You know they will usually get within 10% of asking (eventually). I bought my C2 Cab a little over 2 years ago for $28.5K. I could easily get that today by private sale. KBB is $23K. And in my market, Porsches are as common as VW Beetles.

C4S routinely sell for well more than KBB. The same with taigas and the other more prominent 996s.

LMFAO! You guys are hilarious.

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+1. The most intelligent comment so far.

And, the 996 is fun to work on so all the PM, MOF's, and CEF's do have a bright side.

So, I'm back. Did some statistics on C4S pricing (not sales but asking price) from several sites on the web, like cars dot com, autotrader, etc. I did not use any ebay data. I do not have any data about what this model actually sold for, but one could assume a certain percentage under the asking price. I collected 61 samples between MY 2002 and 2005. Some interesting info came out of this very limited data set. For all cars, average list price is as follows (MY / asking $ / % diff per yr): MY 2002 $31,367 MY 2003 $33,043 5.3% MY 2004 $34,134 3.3% MY 2005 $37,616 10.2% this part was very interesting, here is the average odo reading per model year: Year / Avg. Miles MY 2002 66,672 MY 2003 66,171 MY 2004 63,240 MY 2005 57,266 (not a big difference) From odometer info, the following data falls out (odo reading / avg. ask price / % diff.): ODO <40K $38,775 ODO <50K $35,911 -7.4% ODO <60K $34,336 -4.4% ODO <70K $33,395 -2.7% ODO <80K $33,290 -0.3% ODO <90K $30,505 -8.4% Seems a manual transmission is slightly more desirable at 1% higher asking price. The following graphs show the trend in asking price based on model year and by odo mileage (if you are a buyer, try to stay at or below the line!):

Great useful data representation!! Certainly made me feel good about the '03 C4S w/ 49000 miles I bought in October for $32.5K Sent from my iPhone using Rennlist

Wow that is freaking awesome! So you're looking at 15 cents a mile in depreciation

Purchased my '02 C4S 5 years ago for $32k with 33k miles. I just sold it with 60k miles for $34k. Olga (my C4S) never gave me a single problem, not one! I changed my oil regularly and cared for it like a Porsche owner should. If you're looking to flip a car 996's are HORRIBLE cars to do that with. But if you purchase a low miled C4S and take care of it not only will you have a lot of fun with it but you'll almost break even. I'm now on the hunt for a 993 C4S... Here's Olga, she will be missed... Stop looking at KBB... That really only works for Honda Accords and more common cars. No one really stumbles on a 996 C4S, that buyer knows what he wants. If you take care of your car it will be worth market value or more. There is a trend of people that are now in their lower 30's that want the look of a Turbo but don't want to hassle of maintaining one. Personally, I don't like the Turbo rear spoiler and I prefer naturally aspirated cars. I guess this is a long way of saying... Buy a car with low miles, take care of it, and in the longer run it will pay off.

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Except these cars are getting older than when you bought yours, and like your car, the miles have been put on the majority of them, making a low mileage car rare, and much more expensive. In fact from the data shown above, slightly under 15% have LESS than 40,000 miles on the odo, and they can be found, but expect to pay a healthy premium (all cars under 40K miles were priced at $39K). The average odo for ALL 996 C4S cars analyzed was 64.5K miles with an average price of $33,370. There is some anecdotal evidence that low mileage MKI and MKII cars may be more prone to IMSB issues. That said, the premium for a low mileage car, and the need to put in the IMSB upgrade as insurance, probably isn't worth it - since it will continue to depreciate as miles are put on. IMHO, find a car at a lower than average price with average or slightly higher miles (the graphs above show that it is certainly possible), put in the IMS bearing upgrade, maintain and drive it. In the end, the overall expenditure should be lower, as a low mileage and a high mileage car will probably require the same routine maintenance and costs simply due to age, yet the money is saved up front.

DaveCarrera4, that's an awesome analysis and I appreciate you taking the time out to provide the data. It definitely makes me feel a lot better. Arin, Olga was a beauty. You and DaveCarrera4 reminded me of something I used to preach to buyers that would try to low ball me on cars I would sell basing their offer on kbb and not market value. I guess Porsche value is still all new to me, and I need to get in tune with it.

I have to wonder if Porsche population are a bit mental constantly worrying about miles, condition, pedigree and resale. Do they drive their cars at all? So ridiculous to worry about resale on a 10 year old car, it's downright funny. 147k of hard driven miles and still getting so much fun out of it. The value proposition on this car is off the charts. Consider that most people will never feel the joy of automotive nirvana as this. Cheers

Unless you want to buy an Enzo and not drive it, pretty much any car that you actually drive will be a depreciating asset. I love my C4S, but it's ultimately just a car.

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wow 147k, great! Did you notice the one high mileage car over 160k on the chart? Awesome, I hope he tracked it and drove the hell out of it. 2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red

It's really plain and simple. You can all thank KK for the values and the 550+ 996's in inventory across the US.

Your welcome. Now we ALL can afford two.

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Send me a link to the car with ~160k miles!

Plus why would you spend all that money on a c4s when you can buy a turbo for not much more.

I wouldn't even consider a turbo. Don't need the power... Don't like the sound of the engine

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Seems like comparable condition/mileage C4S and 996TT are $8-10k apart in current prices. Oh, and I believe that the premise of this post is utter nonsense. Once again the idea that 996 values are nearing that of a '96 Sentra with a salvage title is simply incorrect. Certainly some higher mile or poor condition cars sell relatively cheaply. And occasionally someone gets an amazing deal on a nice car. But in general good condition 996 values have been relatively stable for a few years now. I recently bought a nice 2008 Honda Fit for my son and got it for a steal at $9K. I have been unable to find a similar one for under $11K. Should I assume that all the other Honda Fit owners are delusional and values are collapsing, or simply that I got a good deal?

Clickclick you don't need more power? Umm odd statement from a man to say you don't need more power go buy a Prius lol For a while saw some stupid prices on c4s not much less then a turbo but I did buy a turbo for the power and different engine then the naturally aspirated 996 and no not bashing but love the power

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Your opinion and argument is utter nonsense. Honda Fit and a Porsche 911 are apples an oranges, nice strawman but you failed. I have owned over 25 cars, so buying and selling is nothing new to me nor is basing those sales and purchases on value. The kbb value didn't just drop a grand or two, it dropped 8 GRAND in only 9 MONTHS! Out of the 25 cars I've bought and sold, I have never ever seen that dramatic of depreciation...not even 4-5 grand. We are talking about a 6th of what it was worth 9 months ago.

All this really is a moot point as everyone knows you buy the 996 to drive the crap out of and not feel guilty. If you bought it for investment reasons, you bought the wrong car. With 550+ 996's in inventory across the US, it's definitely a buyer's market now. I wouldn't worry too much anyways, the exotic car market has always had its ups and downs(348,360,f355,Dino,NSX,964,993,Elise,etc). I don't think it's going to go the way of the Boxster IMO in the long haul. KBB has always been off on these types of cars historically as well. My $.02

On a specialty car like a 996, you won't truly know what your particular car is worth until it comes time to sell it as the market is narrow and you are looking for a non-standard type of buyer. Even with 500+ 996s on the market nationwide, there is a wide variety of types within the 996 model range. The buyer for a high miles 1999 base C2 is a completely different animal than the buyer for a low miles 2005 Turbo S, but both are still shopping for 996s. The big volume pricing guides like KBB are more concerned about the value of late model commodity cars like Toyota Camrys, so I wouldn't get too excited about KBB values on our cars. Your car is worth what a ready and able buyer (assuming you are able to catch his/her attention) is willing to pay based on many factors such as configuration and color and local availability of like cars for sale that KBB really cannot adjust for. Bottom line, like many others have said, buy the car for enjoyment and don't sweat the resale value until it comes time to sell. If you buy any car at the bottom of its depreciation curve (around 10 to 15 years old) and you keep the car in basically the same condition as when you bought it, then it will always be worth close to what you paid for it assuming you paid a reasonable price for it when you bought it.

Too busy driving, and enjoying, the crap out of my C4S to stop and look at resale values. It's not an investment; it's a personal passion. I don't talk to my broker about my Porsche, nor do I ask my mechanic for investment advice.

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+1 2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red

We recently purchased an 04 C4S Cab 6 speed for a little over $26+ with 106,+ miles, with all the options. PSE, Aluminium kit, full leather etc. It looks great, runs great and is all original. We plan to keep it that way, enjoy it and in a few years upgrade. We are not worried about depreciation, just having fun enjoying our car. It's not real estate or stocks, just a great car we want to enjoy. Cheers

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may I ask the asking price? I'll add you to my database. 2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red

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A. I do not believe the value of a 996 C4S has dropped in that way and that drop is not reflected in listings. KBB and Edmunds listings are not accurate for cars such as Porsches. Recent Mannheim auction prices for good condition 996.2s were running in the $24-27k range. Those are auction prices to dealers. Add $2k for transaction price and that is where the used dealer market is today, or at least a couple of weeks ago. B. I did not compare Hondas and Porsches, but merely made the point that one or two good deals do not represent an overall price trend. C. Show me a good miles/condition C4S for $24k and I'll buy the damned thing today.