What do you really think of the changes from 996 to 997?

I waited a long time for Porsche to upgrade their 911 series. My last one was an '86 Turbo Cab, triple black. After it was car-jacked in '91, I never really wanted to get one of the 90's versions (and life changes at the time made that difficult financially as well). When the 996 came out, I was overjoyed that Porsche made a whole new version for the new millenium. To me, the 996 is the most beautiful car they have ever made. I even like the '99 style Boxsterish headlights, as compared to the newer '02 and above lights. I waited another long while to be able to afford one and just bought my (to me, 'new') '99 coupe. I am so happy with my purchase, words cannot describe. Now there's a lot of hooplah over the changes for the new 997. I can't believe Porsche would take a step backwards with the retro-looking 993-ish headlights/bumper. Are they appeasing the 993 crowd that never took to the 996 look? And how about that bulbous pregnant ***-end?! Did they need to make that much more room for the bigger power plant? I find it really ugly. The car, to me, looks out of whack. I really do not like those gawd-awful rims or the louvers on the rear deck-lid ~ala East L.A. I will say that I like the interior - the seats look like a nice update. What were they thinking?!?! It's U.G.L.Y.! I am totally in love with my '99. It is the most beautiful car I've ever owned! So what does everyone else think? (996 owners, specifically). Any comments?

The 997 looks nice but I am happy w/ my 99 C4 ... atleast until I see a 997 on the showroom floor!

I am truly in love with My Black Beauty Also - The Targa Hits All points with me - the 997 looks cool from the rear - not too crazy about the nose - I think I have to see it live to make a better decision.

The 997 has convinced me to keep my 996.

I had a real hard time liking the 996 headlights. Even before taking delivery I had the headlight bezels painted and ready to install. So, I like the 997 exterior. It's really not a jump in performance though, unless you get the S. The 997 interior eewwww.

As a newbie, I have a dilema.. I have decided that I am after a 996 C4S...but some suggest waiting to get a 997 or 997 S, but after doing as much research as I can, my conclusion is that I just don't like the 997 enough. I find the 996 wide body to be my favourate of all the 911 shapes (odd maybe) and next to that, the 997 just doesn't measure up. I'm sure it'll be better to drive...and have a better quality interior...but i don't like it to look at...inside or outside. I like the interior of the 996...and I like the exterior...and I like how it drives...so I'm happy. Which is why my local dealer is sourcing me a 996 C4S instead of me waiting for a 997 - which I'll probably still not like when I see it in the metal.

Guys, Received the little 997 "teaser" from Porsche by mail this week. In the "teaser" there are some rather good pictures with good focus on new details to the 911 concept. God damn that car appears totally soul-less, yuck! This is just another "take me from A to B" sports car that any poser should be capable of driving but it's not a sports car. I personally never did like the 996 but got my GT3 CS for it's sheer "roughness" but is also the only 996 I would ever buy! On the new 997, just look at the out of proportion small tail lights, the heavy looking rims appear to have come off a Korean SUV, disturbing (to the door line) door handles, over designed side mirrors and limousine/Cayenne interior. I do like the new headlights and front bumper though! I can't understand why Porsche wants to make a car that people start to perceive as a competitor to the Mercedes sport range? This car will not sell to enthusiasts, rather posers that valet park! Very boring and butt ugly! Ciao, Johannes E.

Just got my 996 and am pretty happy with it. Discovering more and more what a great car it is. The 997 can't be worth dynamic wise but I'd like to see it in the flesh first, especially that interior.

Perhaps Porsche can hire that Bangle guy away from BMW and really get some styling changes!!!!

After reading all of the prior posts on this subject, I must admit that I agree with your observations. The 997's "new look" is very disappointing. It's not nearly as bad as the new 5 and 7 seies from BMW, but that's faint praise. Certainly, there's nothing in the 997 look to incent me to pay $90K for one. My guess is that the 997 headlights will be changed in a couple of years.

Like you, Stevo, I like the "Boxster" style headlights on my '01 C4..just extremely happy with everything all around for me..997 what I've seen just doesn't make me want to keep looking at it like mine does..

I think the 997 is a step back in an attempt to appeal to Porsche 911 owners that may of migrated to other marquees. I think that the front end does not look �aggressive� enough. It looks to me like a Beetle with a �smiley face�. (Notice the bonnet line in a smile shape like Beetle). I would want a performance car to look aggressive and powerful from the front not happy and fun loving!!!! As for the rear *** � sure it looks good. I like the revamp lights as well. Porsche claim that 80% of the outside or something is re-designed. But to me looks more like it has been modified from the existing 996 panels. The interior does look more modern and appears to be solid. Not too sure about dressing up the interior with too much carbon, wood or metal effects. Sometimes a somber interior reflect the serious performance car � which has its own pedigree. Not particularly keen on the 997. But will probably be very successful based upon the 911 heritage.

well, i yet to fall in love with the 996, especially my model year (your's too). as for the 997, yes, i think it's an attempt to gain any market share that they might have lost with the introduction of the 996 (i personally think they made too many) and yesteryear's P-car driver. i also think that the 997 design, both interior and exterior, is not one of their better attempts. wheels can be changed, but those wheels are DAMN UGLY!! the rear is a bit too bulbous/raised, i like the front headlights, and i absolutely hate the interior. too modern for me.

I far prefer the 2002+ 996, but I think any 996 represents a nice modern 911. I think that if you want the 993 design, you should get a 993. The 997 just seems a bit confused. As I keep saying, I'll reserve judgement until I see one in person. The 996 interior was due for an update though.

I can't speak for everybody...but i think people will change their minds when they see the car in person...The ENZO & Z4 don't look that great in pictures but in person they are completely different. I think once people physically see it more people will start to like it. That said i haven't seen it in person and can't really decide. I can say that so far I really like the back. I like how the exhaust is surrounded by the rear bumpber and not sticking out below it like an after thought. The wider retractable wing & the LED brake lights really bring it to the present.

Ditto that. Once I saw most of the spy photos, I knew an '04 C4S Cab was in my future. I'll pass on the 997 for now. It may grow on me over time, but I really like the C4S Cab now.

I like it but I wouldn't trade my 996 for one. It's not faster and I like my lights a bit better. Though I wouldn't pass on it if given one for free. 2006 is when I will be looking for a replacement car and its got to be AWD. I don't think I would be able to afford a new 997 Turbo and depending on the prices of a 997 C4S, I might be buying a used 996 Turbo.

I guess it depends on wheather you like VWs or not If you do then you will love this car. But the biggest issue for me is that it retains the RMS problem legacy engine. And IMHO a backup support/warranty network that is fast going down hill. For this, I would not consider buying another new pcar even if it looked as good or better than the 993. But I reserve my judgment on how it looks until I see it in the flesh.

That is pretty funny! I never thought to compare it to a VW, but the look does suggest that. At least those rims in that pic look a lot better than the SUV ones on the other pics I've seen.

Well I have to see it in the flesh to make a better accessment. Though I do like the retro look headlites it's not enough to purchase one and I'm one of the few that likes the boxster headlites(I like the boxster myself but needed the 2+2 seating). But can't wait to see how the 997 turbo will be like. More then likely it's a wait and see for me on the 998(pray bangle doesn't jump ship to Porsche or else I be jumping off). Regards. Mike

No love from me on the 997 either. I'm sure it'll be a great drive, but it does nothing for me stylistically. I just don't like that VW Beetle-esque front-end treatment, the overstyled side mirrors, door handles, nor the narrower taillights. The interior, while more modern and of higher quality materials, is simply out of place in a 911, IMHO. I'm certain seeing it in the flesh won't change my mind either. I love my 996 more and more each day.

I love the new look and added power/torque but i am concerned that some who would buy high end benz's and BM's will move over to porsche b/c of increased creature comforts

I think Porsche will deliver with the next generation Boxster. I bet its sales eclipse the 911's sales ten-fold.

The 997 seems nice enough in the pictures, but seeing one in person is the true test. While I personally like the "widebody" 993 and the 997 styling cues that mimic it, the Porsche I first fell in love with was a 1972 911S. Our 996 reminds me of the 911S - narrow body, no wing (at least sitting still) and its performance is certainly good enough for our non-competitive driving habits. The 997 doesn't have enough of anything to make us swap the 996. If they ever make an 8 cylinder 911, all bets are off.....

i will not be trading my c4s in on a 997. i have not seen the car in person, but judging from the responses posted by those that have, it seems like the 997 is not drastically different aesthetically than the 996....and it is not any faster. it seems to me to be an evolution rather than a revolution. to pony up another $20K or so for a new one only to lose it as the car rols off the lot? nah. if anything, i'll but a twin t with an extended warranty. regards, 03 AS C4s

Scouser, Maybe its because you haven't see the 997GT3 yet

Geepers! Carlos that's frightening! I mean there is a real resemblence there. I know there won't be any perfomance comparison but hell it just proves that the 997 shell is just a distrorted VW. Bute then I know some who will say it has always been that

I will be first in line at my local dealer for the 998. I am second in line at my local dealer for the new 160HP BMW motorcycle, the K12S Steve 99 996 64 356C 76 930 00 M5 99 R11S

I saw the car today at the dealer and I like it much better than the 996, but I have 993s so I may be biased as I like the curves and the big butt. Not a fan of the interior or the wheels though....can't wait to see what the turbo will be like.

I'm actually happy that this new model will not tempt me to want to change from my current 996. I agree with most of the negative styling viewpoints but it is in the eye of the beholder. New Porsche owners or 993ers will probably have more favorable reviews. It'll make interesting conversation when I meet the owner of new model though.

You saw a 997 at a dealer today???? Real or photo? If there is one around, I'd like to know where.

I think the 997 looks terrific and will undoubtedly be a spectacular automobile. I just hope with all the 996 carry-over technology they have fixed 3 seemingly minor but glaring faults: 1) No separate lock & unlock buttons on the remote. 2) No tilt wheel. 3) A rear wiper that stays lifted and doesn't drop on your paint when you look at it wrong!

It's pretty ironic how it's the same people that Porsche woo'd away from MB and Lexus with the 996 are the same people complaining about the 997 looking too much like a 911. Porsche also realized that these same people have very little brand loyalty, especially to Porsche - whatever's the "coolest" thing at the moment they will buy (hence the crap re-sale values on 996s) - so just having a new model will appease them. Just watch, you'll come around, too. Porsche also figure, if these people are gonna buy their new models anyway, might as well try to win back some of the old guard and improve brand image while they're at it.

I beg your pardon... I've never owned a Lexus nor a MB, for that matter. I have been waiting a long time for Porsche to update their 911 since my '86 turbo cab was stolen in '91 (in Los Angeles - your town). I never really liked the 993's. Porsche finally did it in '99 with the introduction of the 996 and I fell in love with that model. It's taken me until now to be able to find the time and the $$ to own one. I'm not exactly some luxury car switch-over looking for some trend in my ride. So as far as the posters above that mentioned that they didn't like the 997 for whatever reason, where did you get the idea that they (including myself) are all former Lexus/MB owners that have been woo'ed to a lux car with more sport? It just feels a little insulting. I fell in love with Porsches at age 16 getting to drive my boss' brand new '82 928 every Fri. eve after washing it. It was the start of a life-long love affair.

Real. Dealers warehouse in Hong Kong.

It's pretty ironic how it's the same people that Porsche woo'd away from MB and Lexus with the 996 are the same people complaining about the 997 looking too much like a 911. My complaint isn't that the 997 looks too much like a 993 because it just so happens that I love the look of the 993. My complaint is that the 997 looks too much like a VW beetle. Side by side in photos these two cars look like twins.

I'm with you. My last Porsche is an '86 Targa and I was seriously considering the '86 Cab w/ Turbo-look that year until my daughter (then 1 year old) starting screaming non-stop when we test drove the car with her and the top down (she was in the high wind buffet zone of the car with the top down). Instead I went with the Targa to get the open air feel but better family peace. This year I decided it was time for a 996 TT Cab and placed an order in January. Then I was on pins & needles as spy photos & leaks about the 997 came out over the last 2-3 months. Should I wait till another 2-3 years for a 997 Cab or TT Cab? Would the 997 be better value, look better, have more performance, etc? When the camouflage came off, I wavered - should I take delivery or not. But after spending hours looking at the photos, here are my conclusions: 1) The 997 front does look more retro, but much as I'm a long term fan, I don't need retro, I already own retro and I plan on keeping it (the 993 really didn't do much for me). I want the 911 style to move forward while keeping the essential spirit, which has to do with the best performance and handling possible in a car that you can live with day & night - not round headlights. I think those who complained about the front were complaining more about being unable to distinguish the front from a Boxster, that doesn't have to mean going back to a 993. 2) The 997 butt is a reflection of the trend to obesity worldwide. I see it as more fat not more muscular. Also the reduction in grill slots is probably to maintain proportion of the slats with the increased butt, but it ends up looking less refined. Finally, when I saw the leaks of the 997 Cab, that butt looked even more accentuated and ruined the profile lines for me. 3) The increased width is better looking than the plain 996, but I'm comparing against the 996 TT which already has the wide body. 4) The interior/dash of the 997 is different, but not necessarily an improvement over the 996. I found myself agreeing with another thread where it was pointed out that the interior shapes of the 997 were a mix of rectangles & curves, whereas the 996 was more consistently curves. I think the styling of the interior dash is a better fit with the 996 exterior. 5) I'm not a huge fan of the 996 steering wheel, but the new ones are ugly. Result - I took delivery of my 996 TT Cab yesterday.

Heh-heh-heh. It's the 993 vs 996 all over again . Anyway, what I like best is the adjustable suspension. You can go from regular to sport. I wonder if they will have sport to super-sport/track?

Those kinds of improvements are interesting - without having to spend on an aftermarket suspension system. I'm surprised they aren't coming up with better power numbers with the much larger engine. Does it weigh that much more?

It's pretty ironic how it's the same people that Porsche woo'd away from MB and Lexus with the 996 are the same people complaining about the 997 looking too much like a 911. This is a generalist, ignorant statement, to which several others have already responded. I have never owned a MB or driven a Lexus regularly (though my wife does drive a Lexus LX470). My daily driver has been a 911 of some variant since 1996, and I currently drive a 996. Let's face it - the 911 has slowly been evolving into a more refined, comfortable driving car since the 1970's. Frankly, the changes from the 3.2 911s to the 964 and 993 (power steering!!!, softer suspensions, better a/c, etc.) were a much greater impact to the driver than was the 993 to 996 change. I love my 996, as I have my other 911s. I don't yet love the 997, and while I might eventually, it has nothing to do with Mercedes or Lexus.

I love my 996 (and I am a past and present MB owner). It will be interesting to see if 996 owners will hang on to the love for the 996 (when the 997 comes out) the way the 993 owners held onto the love of their cars (when the 996 was introduced). Time will tell but I cant wait to see a live 997!

Lets face it, they can't do that much styling wise to the shape of the 911 yet still call it a 911. Thats what makes it so great to have any model year of the 911. I saw a mid eighties Carrera on the road today and it still looked amazing. I personally like that Porsche doesn't just change things for the sake of change. I can keep my current Porsche lineup and not worry about trying to keep up with the changes. There will always be faster models. I find that I don't need to keep up anymore. I am just happy when I get into my C2, Boxster S, or for a special treat the GT3. That should hold me over for at least half a decade anyway!

I guess some of p-car owners have such strong brand loyalty. I really could care less about the badge or the brand. I buy what I like. I bought SLK because I thought the retractable hardtop was cool back then. I bought 996 because I like how it drove not because it was a porsche. IMHO, people should buy what they like not just based on brands or MYs for that matter. Who cares about what other people think? It is your money and the beauty is in the eyes of the beholder :-)

Who cares about what other people think? You would be surprised how many people buy a car because of the prestige of that brand, whether they will admit it or not. For example, how many wealthy professionals would be buying 911s if new ones sold for $35K? When you buy buy a new $90K Porsche, you are telling the world that you are successful.

I'm with you Ubergeek! I am taking delivery of my first Porsche later this week and I love the way the car looks and feels. What I am not going to enjoy is that a lot of people - particulalry some of my inlaws - who will think that I bought the car because of the badge. I alsomost want to cover the badge over and call it a Skoda! Heck! - it might even lower the insurance premiums if I did that :-)

I am reviving this thread to see what people think now of the 997. Anyone?

A very nice blend between the aesthetic beauty of the 993 and the technological advances of the 996. The a** still needs to be wider though. As soon as they get affordable for me, I am down!!

I think it looks great, and still think my 993 coupe was the best looking 911 ever, but I'm not trading in the GT3!!

Last Fall when the 997s hit the showrooms I decided that I much perferred the look, inside and out, of the 996. I'm happy I made the choice of a new '04 996. I'm fortunate to have the model I really wanted. Everyone else should be as happy with whichever model they chose. -Happy motoring!

I have been looking at it for a while now. I kinda like it. I enjoy my 996 a lot but the PASM + PSE switch on 997 S sure are very appealing. I'll go when I can, but I'll wait to see the Turbo in flesh. I think it will be an awesome car.

HELL NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! bangle is THE WORST designer!!!!!!!!!!!

I dislike it soo much i have a 997 TT on order. With that in mind i still say the 993 wide body is sooo sexy, but that damm int, is ***, I think the 996 is a great looking car and has some real caractor, I think the 996 is still the best Porsche made, and i plan on keeping mine when the new one comes. I would never think about straying from my 996. The 997 just didn't make me go WOW when i first saw it, so i knew i didn't want one but the TT is a diffrent story

love almost everything about the 997, heck even the door handles except for one thing: Those weird fugly rims that are standard on the 997 S. Check out the TechArt 997: http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-20...-1600x1200.jpg wow

I guess this happens whenever a new model comes out. It is hard to get used to. But I couldn't agree more that I think the 996 is a better looking car. Especially the early versions with the boxter like headlights. They are just damn sexy and sleek looking cars. Everything matches...the roundness of the body is replicated in the interior and the car just has a smooth and classy look. I have found myself sometimes wanting to put a new nose or side skirts or other body mods on the car and just can't bring myself to ruin the lines. It is the first car I have ever had that women will walk by and actually comment that is is "beautiful". I read ar recent article in "Car and Driver" on the 997. The author was describing his test drive of the car and then commented that he got a little "nostalgic" when he spied a 996 "slinking" through the traffic. I thought that was a perfect description....

well at that price i can tell you i would have bought 2 of them rather than just one!

997 is over the top in the gizmo dept IMHO. I'm happy with my '04 with no PASM, PSM, PCM, Sport buttons, or silly looking dashboard.

I liked my 996 and love the 997. I just like the low end torqu, the wider rear and the interior more over the 996. They are both great cars....I am fortunate to be able to get one!

"HELL NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! bangle is THE WORST designer!!!!!!!!!!!" Couldn't agree with Karlooz more. Bangle has the hard core BMW fans bummed in a big way. Every issue of Roundel (BMW CCA's monthly mag) is filled with debate around the new design direction with the vast majority or writers expressing negative options. It's about evolution, not revolution. -911PSYCHO-

Yup. We are driving our last Bimmer until they get unbangled. Plus, all the electronic assists and driver interference that's being added is not attractive.

I'm just thankful that Porsche didn't add the shark fin on the 997 that is prevalent on almost every other German car. Personally I love every 911 design from its inception through the 993, 996, and 997 iterations. Even though the basic 911 design has been around for over 40 years, it is just as appealing to me today as it was in the '60s. Maybe Bangle can learn something from Porsche. In Bangle's endeavor to reach the sublime, he came up with designs that are ridiculous.

Aptly put!

I am not impressed with the 997 It has the same RMS plagued engine design as the 996 5 hp more then the 996 - what the f*** is that I personally like the new head lights but only the head lights. The 996 lights are multi-purpose - I hate the 997 fog and turn signal lights on the front bumper. I am so glad the 996 doesn't have that. While I think the shape of the 997 is better then the narrow body 996 I think they over did the rear end a bit. The slimmer tail lights and and engine lid not lining up prevents the red reflector from ever being put on the 997. I've seen the car many times up close and while driving behind it, it still looks like a 911 so wtf I wouldn't turn it down if I were given one but then I wouldn't get rid of the 996 if I was given one. More then likely trade the 997 in for a used 996 GT3. I am now thinking of keeping my 996 and waiting to see what the 998 is all about. If I don't like that one then maybe I will lease a Cayman and keep my old 996.

Maybe Porsche built the 997 for other reasons than how the headlights look!! The majority of 'I don'tlike the 997' posts complain that the headlights look like the 993 and the back end is fat... The car is faster, stiffer, handles a bit better...thats evolution

Freely admitting that I did not read the whole thread - to me it's difficult to say you hate the 997 but love the 996 - the cars just are not THAT different looking. I like both.

I prefer the 996 over the 997 by a wide margin. Having said that, I prefer the Cayman over all 911s. Right now I'm just debating whether to sell my coup� now while it still has another year of warranty, or wait until the Cayman Club Sport is released. Or, maybe get something Japanese.....

Just got back from the dealer and parked my '04 C4S Cab beside a 997. It's incredible how similar the cars are, but frankly, I really don't get the new front end of the 997 - it is too beatleish..., and those rims should be banished from our planet! Interestingly, the dealer told me that Porsche has advised them that THERE WILL BE NO 997 "C4S" - at least in terms of what we're used to in a C4S model. (ie: there won't be a 997 based C4 with the turbo wide body and turbo breaks and suspension, and the single continuous break strip across the back - there will only be a Carrera 4 with the larger "S" engine) Makes me SUPER glad I bought the car I did...

Alright, I must weigh in on this subject. From an "architectural eye" point of view I feel that the '99 thru '04 996 was and currently IS the best designed porsche ever produced! Never mind that I just happen to own an '01 cab because I believe that I can be totally unbiased. First, take a look at those beautiful yet functional flowing headlights on the '99-'01 models. That feature alone is so outstanding that it could easily be mistaken for jewelry at certain angles of approach. Let's face it, not a single line was out of place during this era of design. I saw a '00 carrera cab last week with a GT-3 front nose/Sport Design wheels on it and I had to make a U-turn and take a second look. Secondly, the interior of said era cars are what I call "ergonomically sleek" and quite frankly represent an excellent cross between 993 rawness and 997 techno sheek. Notice how all the curved lines flow into one another - starting from the dash. Finally, I currently have 40k miles on my stunning machine and have only had to replace the RMS($700.00), which is a small price to pay for the kind of visceral excitement that I get in return. True sports cars are going to have some issues and the 996 has few in comparison to the much compared 993 which I personally feel looks wonderful "for it's era". I adore my 996 even after comparing it to other cars that I've owned, including an '00 Boxster(great whail, but no real bite), GT-3(best damned sports car ever if you can survive the thrashing), and Ferrari 348(a real beauty with no brains). My advise to all 996 owners - love your car for what it is - the most beautiful, user friendly, mechanics friendly, studly and architurally correct sports car ever designed and produced by Porsche! No apologies here. As for the new 997, I was just at a Porsche dealership yesterday and I can say with complete confidence that this car(as it is currently designed) will not stand the test of time from a design sense as the 996 has. Is has some nice areas - like it's degree of slope over the rear bonnet, however the entire front clip has to go! The interior is way out of line for a car that should screem "fast". In a nutshell, Porsche caved in to former 993 affectionados who had their day with a car that was "all that" during their era, but ignored the current taste and desires of its' future buyers who may only remember the 993 as "my father's porsche".

BANGLE?????? The rear end of the 745i is probably the uglies single feature on a lux car I've ever seen!!!! When I got my M5 (01), I went to the EXPERIENCE (driving course that came complimentary w/the car) in SC, and toured the factory where they make the X5. There was a pre-release 745i sitting there, being photographed.....the entire group I was with commented unanimously on how they HATED the look of the car, and how Bangle is a joke.