Screw BFG!!!!

My car has been handling like utter crap lately. I had it corner balanced, checked the aligment like 3 times, and it still handles like crap. There was a whine that was so bad the dealer told me it was the wheel bearings @ a cost of 900 bucks. I did them myself and still the noise persisted. It turns out the front tires are cupped. The car handles like utter crap and is a pain to drive in a straight line and doesn't like to return or take a set into or out of a corner. F*ck these tires. I contact tire rack and get insulted. I contact BFG directly and they were nice enough saying I needed to take the car to a reseller to have them checked. I went to discount tire and they showed me how cupped the tires were on the inner tread blocks. I couldn't believe it. I got to speak to a BFG rep. which told me to pound sand. I later called the manager and he gave me the same BS. He actually had the audacity to tell me not to drive the car if I had a problem. I replied, so I am not supposed to drive a performance car in a performance manner with performance tires when the tires are F*CKED? He said flat out yes and denied that the tires were defective, even though I know other people with my same setup which have never had this problem WTF!!! STAY away from BFG I have had not one but 3 defective rears from slipped belts, and I actually had to pay for the first one! I cannot believe how poor their QC is and their failure rate on the BFG comp TA KD. I will never ever buy from this company and I hope no one else does. I guess I am going to buy a set of ps2's now, which is great as I am a law student on loans and just bought two new rears a few months ago!

And you're driving a Porsche?

Sorry to hear about your tires woes. Stick with Porcshe approved N rated tires. Don't know much about BFG's as these belong on Camaros, Mustangs and the like, IMHO. Stick with Dunlop, Michellin or Bridgestone.

Guy with picture of vain guy - Yes I am a student on loans currently, and bought the car before school paying cash for it. It really irritates me that people chose to focus on irrelevant details like an idiot instead following the topic and actually being either helpful or not saying anything at all. Cab- I was told basically it seems that individual tread blocks on the inside of the tire will have this problem. Why have none of my other friends had this problem running simular setups and the same tires???? It is all a bunch of BS. Why the hell does tire rack sell and recommend it for Porsche then? Sounds like breach of warrant for fitness for particular use to me. Oh, btw the reason that BFG initially would not warrant the tires is because it is lowered! Such bastards!

One thing is Tirerack "recommending" them or saying that it would "fit" and Porsche approving of this tire is another. Make sure that the next tire you chose has the "N" rating. It will save you lots of headaches and the car will handle the way it was designed to.

Sorry to hear about your troubles with BFG. I've met several owners that have been very happy with their near R-compound performance. Unfortunately, it looks like their quality control and customer service have let you down. Thanks for sharing your experience. It's going to help me make the right tire decision after I wear out my very noisy S02's.

SPR - I was still an automotive engineer student when I bought my first (I had two) M roadster with its high mantainance bills and at the time was very annoyed when people asked me "how can you afford that car???" It's kind of a jeolous comment really, but I reckon you lost your point by replying the way you did man... anyway, thanks for sharing your experience about BFG I once had the same issue on a set of Goodyear F1's on an M roadster and I returned them the shop who sold and fitted them after taking them for a (scary) ride... ;-)

No need for your comments SPR. I was more surprised you're a law student, with such an immature vocabulary. You might want to lose the attitude before you practice in a court of law.

I just thought it was a funny comment coming from someone who has a picture of themself as their avatar. How is my vocabulary immature?; if anything it should be deemed insensative, Moron. You think i would carry that attitude in a professional sense? Obviously I meant the comment in jest, again because of the avatar was coupled with a rediculous tangental comment. People need to grow up and understand context. Sometimes these forum are just too much, and you wonder why everyone posts primarily on 6speed where people stop to think of the context before they become upset over nothing, and then assume that the joke was not only literal but commonplace in a professional setting. Rediculous

SPR -- I think it just boils down to you not doing your homework. Quite frankly, I jujst purchased a completed set of Yoko's AVS Sports knowing that they were not the best out there but thought the performance and life of tire fit what I was looking for at the time. There were plenty of "Reviews" on Tire Rack both good and bad. Don't know what you did for your research but given you chose BFG's, I don't think you went for quality right out of the shoot! They were really low on my list and wouldn't have bought them. With respect to people on 6Speed, get real, they're just as goofy as you.

Your post really made no sense. How should I get real? I wouldn't characterize what I said or that forum as goofy?? I will agree however, that on 6 speed people consider what other's say more and give more lattitude to context. For the reasearch side, my friends have the exact same tires on the same car with the SAME setup, and noted they gave the best handling over all other tires.

and we wonder why lawyers have such a bad reputation...

Just what is it that doesn't make sense? You obviously chose the bottom of the price range with BFGs. Obviously you wouldn't characterize yourself as goofy, but why did you have to attack someone on a personal level "gay guy"? So the dude has a picture of himself. The "Get real" only gets better with your statement "For the reasearch side, my friends have the exact same tires on the same car with the SAME setup, and noted they gave the best handling over all other tires". NO WAY and BS! You and your "friends" get what you pay for. You now want others to believe that BFGs are supposed to be as good if not better than others? Yeah, GET REAL! Understand now? The statement about 6Speed was over the top. I also see you put your ranting post there too. Too much fella. You go cheap and you get crap. Seems like that's what happened to you and now you have to live with your mistake. That's it. Oh yeah, what's "lattitude"?

Lizard -- I'm an aspiring law student and who said that fellow was one? If so it looks like someone didn't do their homework.

I guess you'll be eating noodles this month for a new set of tires... Cya son...

Let's see...the initial post was to "vent" and ask us not to buy from BFG. What response do you want? If it was to ask what would be a good replacement tire, we'll gladly give our opinions. Being a statistician, I'm afraid the "due diligence" of research should have included a much larger sample size than 1! I must admit when I did the research, BFG never even came up?! I switched from Bridgestones to Pilot Sport PS2s. I'm very happy with them so far. Perhaps your first law suit could be with BFG. Good Luck.

Very insulting to Leedav.

Following rules should apply to SPR from now on prior to posting! 1. SPELL CHEK - OOPS I MEAN CHECK! 2. DON'T INSULT SOMEONE WHEN THEY HAVEN'T INSULTED YOU! 3. DONT' MENTION DETAILS OF YOUR PERSONAL LIFE, (LAW STUDENT, LOANS...) IF THEY DON'T PERTAIN TO THE SUBJECT AND IF YOUR NOT READY TO GET COMMENTS BACK ABOUT THEM. 4. LASTLY, PLEASE INCLUDE A PHOTO OF YOURSELF FOR YOUR AVATAR, (THEN WE CAN ALL HAVE SOME FUN POSTING COMMENTS! FEEL FREE TO COMMENT BACK ABOUT MY POST, I CAN TAKE IT!

Moderator....I've never asked this before, but I bet I'll be supported......why don't you ban the creator of this thread.....his biggest input so far has been to insult some respected, well liked members here.....please don't tell me to block him......I'm asking you to DUMP him!!!

HERE COMES YOUR FIRST SUPPORTER, COUNT MY VOTE!!!

SPR - what I don't understand is you have more than once mentioned knowing people who have great experiences with this tire, yet you insist on going off on BFG. Maybe rather than yelling at them, it's time to look at why your tires are wearing poorly. Start with the condition of your shocks. Worn out shocks will typically cause cupping.

SPR, I feel very sorry for you, and for any clients who might hire you in the future as an attorney.

Not cool SPR.

Firstly, unless you have facts to the contrary, you are presuming that a person who is pictured standing next to his car is "gay". Secondly, making such a statement in a public forum is potentially defaming to another. As you will recall from studying torts, "defamation is a statement communicated to another person which tends to harm the reputation of another so as to lower him in the estimation of the community or to deter third persons from associating or dealing with him". (Ref: Black's Law Dictionary). An argument can easily be made that Rennlist is such a community. Again, and as you will remember, there are two types of defamatory communications: 1.) libel and; 2.) slander. Libel is a method of defamation expressed in print, as, I would consider the accusations you made about a member. As you may also know from your legal studies that defamation does not require wrongful intent or negligence. (Blacks, supra). It merely requires that one �print� it or cause it to be printed. Slander is the speaking of base and defamatory words tending to prejudice another in his reputation, office, trade, business or means of livelihood. (Blacks supra). Would that not be the case here? The danger of making such comments in public fora such as this is obvious. You are, in effect, communicating, what may be a harmful untruth to potentially thousands of others who read these threads. Would not calling another person unknown to you a derogatory name in this forum tend, perhaps, to prejudice another from communicating or speaking with him or result in similar defaming name calling? I would think, yes. As you move further into your legal training, you will begin to see how a lawyer most effectively communicates to others. This takes time and practice to learn. Understand that as a future officer of the court, you must respect those with whom you may disagree and you will be called out of order for outbursts and short sighted responses such as the ones you have made in this public forum. I would also suggest that you proof read your posts and learn to use the spell checking features of this site. Syntax in written form is terribly important for a lawyer and a law student. I am a big stickler with my law student's being able to write correctly, spell correctly and express themselves eloquently in a non-hostile or aggressive manner. This �art� takes time to develop. It will serve you well. I will say this, as a law student, you are very fortunate to be able to own and drive such a wonderful and costly car as a Porsche. I could never have afforded such a car as a law student. Lastly, as for the tires you are complaining about the answer is simple. Select a different make, such as Bridgestone or Pirelli's and start to enjoy your Porsche again. Good luck in your further legal studies. Pay attention to the details and learn to control impulses placing others in a bad light. Jim

very eloquent

YEAH! WHAT HE SAID!

What a joke. I didn't chose the bottom of the line tire at all. I chose them because of Ben in LJ's testimonial on how great they were as he was running the same setup on his supercharged cab. You are a moron indeed. I never said they were better than any others in any respect, and if you really had any reading comprehension you would understand that I am saying that they are inferior with such a high rate of defect. Don't you understand what lattitude means? I am done wasting my time one someone with as little education as you must hand if you don't understand the syntax. You are indeed again, pathetic in your arguments.

What's with the name calling? There really is no need. You can disagree without getting personal. This whole rather pathetic yet entertaining thread is b/c of the child like tantrums and name calling.

haha, are you high? Dude, you have got to move on to another forum.

i stand corrected, you give lawyers AND Pcar owners a bad name pls go back to your own world where you think it all revolves around you. can't wait till your eyes get opened up to the truth

SPR...close to 2000 posts? I think it is time to become a dues paying member...don't you? You could use the money you saved on your BFG's.

Jim, I of course know what simple defamation is. However I hope that you are not a practicing attorney as you miss torts II pleading requirements. The statement was not arguably defamatory on it's face period. Therefore you must plead inducement-descriptive facts explain allegation, inuendo- explanation of why statement harms P�s reputation, as well as Colloquim- extrinsic facts that lead RP to conclude about P. Please don't tell me about my profession, I do quite well in that arena. I don't really care if I have a spelling mistake as this is my leisure time, and doesn't reflect in anything professionally. I love how people on here just want to try and prove someone wrong at least you tried to do a better job and understood what I was relaying in my post. I do agree that I will never use a BFG product ever again. The purpose of the post was to warn people of this problem. Why do I even waste my time anymore?

To the original first post....We are hooked up with BFG and Michelin and run all our cars on them. I ran BFG KDW GForce II on my EVO for 2 years. Best tire I have ever run next to a falken. Great handling and long life. I run Michelin PS2 on the 996 now. Sometimes there is a bad egg in a batch...

That is what I was trying to focus on as I have had numerous kd's and 3 rears were defective! The front cupping IMHO is defective as I have new pss9's and have had the car corner balanced and aligned and had the alignment checked twice after that. The only possibility is that the shop that did the aligment set it up improperly, but I was there watching and gave them the numbers in person. Instrument inaccurancy might be the culprit if that is the case. The car honestly is unsafe to drive as hard as I do and load and unloads strangely-

Well I have the Corporate hook up...so if you hate them, then get a new tire brand. If you want help to replace it, get me all relevant info by email and I will pass it along. later [email removed]

Are you a 1L, or just making fun of 1Ls? I for one am very impressed with your brilliance! Front cupping sounds like your suspension is out of alignment, regardless of whether you trust your shop. I cannot imagine that one brand of tires will experience cupping while another brand will not. Different brands may wear at different rates, but cupping vs. non-cupping? Please . . .

I'm going to say it again (I DON"T know why I'm bothering) but HAVE YOU CHECKED YOUR SHOCKS? My god, you run around here blaming BFG but by your own admission your car "unloads strangely"?

My apology to the forum in advance (for past and present). I hate to put fuel on the fire, but for SPR, you would be better off getting your facts straight. Just go back and read what you wrote over and above the insults. You did make a comparison to other tires on the market based on what your friend(s) or whoever or whatever said. How can one with half a brain hold BFGs to other tires on the market, let ALONE Porsche approved tires? That's beyond belief! What's also beyond belief is your claim to being a law student or lawyer (whatever). Outside your poor grammar and spelling (ahem), you don't seem to be very bright or educated. Yeah, it seems you can open a book and make reference to some law, but I don't buy it. Too lacking in many areas. You read like a hot-head -- kind of easy at getting your buttons pushed. You would be too easy of a target in law school and especially in law school. You should take special note of the free advice by the law professor on this forum. I can say if these forums had more people like you it wouldn't be around too long, but I have to give you this -- you're entertaining and perhaps we're all laughing. Now go do your research and buy some good tires and stop your belly-aching! Lastly, the gentleman you insulted early on because of his picture on his avatar is head and shoulders above you. As I stated above, IF you are either in the legal profession or aspiring to do the same it will undoubtedly be short-lived unless you grow up and improve your vocabulary along the way.

Yep, I'm likely one of those friends that steered him into the BFGs based upon my experience with them (same suspension - PSS9s/GT3 sways), but mine were on a cab. The tires have fantastic grip, and I don't recall experiencing cupping (though noise was probably more than the other 3 sets from different makers - Mich,Pirelli, and Conti). Anyone thinking these are bargain tires should check the prices. They were the most expensive ones available at the time I purchased mine because they are indeed great performing tires - in the dry. That said, I've decided a while back that I'm only interested in approved (ie: recommended) Nx rated tires by Porsche. However, those N ratings incorporate considerations such as tire wear, comfort, noise and performance (both dry and wet) - among other things. Since the very only thing I'm interested in for my Pcars is dry performance with all other factors being a distant second+, I opted to go with the BFG KDs as well because they offer the best dry performance in a street tire. On top of that, I rarely get more than a year or 4k miles out of my tires on my sports cars and figured if I didn't like them, I would be replacing them soon enough anyway. FWIW, after putting turbo brakes on the 996C2, I experienced tire lock up way earlier than with the stock brakes until I put on the BFGs. With the Contis, I was exceeding the tire grip way early leaving me with worse brakes than I started with - again until I put on the BFGs. Owing to SPR's experience though, I'm not sure I have the same level of confidence in the tires I once did. One of my BFG rears also had a belt problem. PS. Any chance we can keep this thread civil about the topic so others can learn from other peoples mistakes and experiences instead of being left to their own trial and error?

we do?

bfg kd are quite sticky for street tires and indeed not cheap. however, it's very difficult to get manufacturers to admit it's thier QC that failed. most likely you will have to eat it. i love RA1's but i have had some very bad one and they won't warranty it. spr, you may have to get to know the supplier better and they can pull some strings for you. else, i fear there's nothing BFG will do for you ;-( however, as good as bfg has been, currenlty i feel the PS2 is one of the best street rubbers you can put on the 996 chassis. SO2a's are nice too.

Ben, You seem like a reasonable person, however, your friend is not. Perhaps he'll listen to you about keep it civil, otherwise, I'll stand up for those on this forum who more often than not are terrific and informative. You're friend is not.

Yep, I was very pleased with the PS2s on my ex-996. They were also terrific on our ex-M3. And apparently, Porsche thinks they are the best for the CGT as well. I've not tried out any other tires on the CGT since I believe the only other approved tires are the Pirellis and I'll take PS2s over those any day (though I'm trying the Pirellis on the Cayenne since the Michelins Diamaris wore out way too soon), but with the correct hot pressure they are terrific given what the CGT's handling and braking capabilities ask of them.

PS2's are incredible... RA1 are great for track, you can run them on the street, but watch out for water I ran RA1 on my track tires for my EVO. I will be running RA1 or Michelin race tires on my 240sx race car. The PS2 work great on my 996 for every day driving....

I don't know why, but I keep coming back to this post. When I was researching tires, I asked a friend for a favor. (Of course this friend is a research/design engineer for a company that makes carbon fiber and deals directly with Ferrrari for their Formula cars.) I had him ask the Ferrari test drivers which, commercially available, street tire is the best. They actually emailed him back and he forwarded it to me. Now I know we aren't talking Ferraris here, but just the same, they recommended: 1 PS2 2 P-0s 3 Bridgestones For what it's worth.

I'm obviously between a rock and a hard place here because SPR is a friend of mine (spent quite a bit of last week with him as a matter of fact), but I think he is acting out of character this evening owing to the situation. He has spent quite a bit of time and money on this issue (neither of which he has in abundance owing to being a student), and is very frustrated. After both venting and sharing his experience here, he was immediately (first response) met with something that had nothing to do with his post (his mentioning of being a law student was likely offered solely to support his claim that he doesn't have the time or money for this tire situation). As a law student, retaliation, arguing, and adversarial type behavior is something that consumes a bunch of time (that mindset and attitude is precisely why I chose a different path half way through law school myself). It snowballed when people started talking about his experience being his fault (he did have 3 defective rear tires after all - regardless of the cupping on the fronts) as a result of him allegedly trying to scrimp on cost (how this is accomplished through buying the most expensive tires available is not yet clear to me). Further, he has spent a crapload of time at the alignment shop (again time not being one of his biggest assets), and is likely (and rightly) having a hard time seeing himself as the problem instead of the victim in this situation. One of the worst things to do when someone is venting about being wronged is to invalidate that wrong by accerting it's their fault. That pisses off anyone. I'm not saying anyones behavior is justified (there is more than one person responsible for this situation IMO) by that of others, but I do see how it happened and how it escalated to the point it did which again I find out of character for SPR. Hopefully everyone (including SPR) can see their part in the situation and learn from it (if not apologize). I'm sure everyone involved in this thread just let the situation get the best of them.

Now that was a lucid, leavelheaded, articulate explanation-----except for one thing.......how do you explain the "gay" comment being hurled at a decent, well respected, well liked, gentleman in our community? There IS no explanation which will be accepted...... Once again, moderator......please read this thread, and do the OBVIOUS!!!!!

He obviously realized that was offensive as you can see by his changing it to "vain".

Ben... I think you raise some very good and valid points. Putting everything said so far in this thread aside I think we all have to respect Rennlist's Charter which appears under the Support forum. Whether we have read the Charter or not we constructively agree by entrance to these fora to, among other things, not post any material which is knowingly false, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law nor post comments that are inflammatory, fraudulent, libelous, defamatory, racist or demeaning manner. That being said, perhaps an apology to Lee by SPR would settle this issue down. Jim

SPR - What type of BFG tires did you get ? I recent mounted the BFG TWD-K2 and they work great, no problems at all. Sorry to hear that, I also experinced a problem with my AMG and Conti's - Nothing I did seemed to work and no one was going to make it any better also, So I know your pain.

Getting back on the initial topic; I had cupping issues on an '02 WRX 3K miles after new KDWs with proper alignment were installed. In retaliation, I just sold the car.

Anyone with this venom and name calling should be trown off this web forum. That he's not a paying member is even more insulting!

I'm sorry to hear about your tire problems, however if you spoke to either a Tire Retailer or BFG rep with the same level of restraint and intelligence you've used here, I am not at all surprised you came away with the results you did. Someone once said you catch more flies with honey. It works and you'd do well to learn that, especially in the practice of law. Go into each case with guns blazing and you'll have a very short and not very noteworthy career. Actually that holds true in almost any industry and its something most people fail to ever learn. Regards

I am puzzled (apart from the unpleasant tone of the posts). Cupping is normally caused by an unbalanced tire or a suspension problem such as loose joints or bad shocks. If the PSS9 is new, it seems unlikely but, manufacturing defects are not limited to tires. Could there be a loose joint or a bad shock? The comment about "the suspension unloading strangely" makes me wonder. Cupping can also be caused by a defective tire, an expect can read the inside of the tire for evidence of belt slippage. It is also common for a tire which has belts moving out of place to be impossible to balance. Often this is the only sure fire proof of a defective tire, i.e., it will not stay balanced. Has every possibility been examined? It would be a shame to buy new tires only to suffer the same problem.

Tires are close to a black art (no pun intended).. Some tires will cup with certain cars, some don't and it is not entirely clear what the cause is. I am sure if you did a careful analysis you will find that certain tire parameters are simply not suited for certain car/suspension set ups. The big problem is that many of these tire parameters are hard to reverse engineer. For example, if you look at the tire tread you will see that the pattern changes slightly in size as you rotate the tire. You will also see repetitions of the pattern. These are all measures to reduce tire drone and vibrations. I hate to revert to generalities, but BFG tires are or were notorious for being hard to balance, and not always perfectly round. I generally avoid them, as I do most BadYear tires. What the original poster should do about his tires? Write a letter of complaint to BFG and where the tires were bought, with documented proof, and hope something comes out of it. Chances are they'll blame your car, like what they have been doing. I have had similar issues, and tire rack was willing to give me a pro-rated discount on another set of tires. If that all fails, take a couple of DE and a-x events, have lots of fun and buy new tires. Jan

Bob Rouleau - don't bother...I said the same thing back in posts 21 and 37, and he never responded.....

Hey Bbailey, Why do people assume that I would merely blow up at someone when I want something from them? Again, how is that going to be productive? Of course I was very diplomatic in all respects at first with both the BFG rep as well as the distributor examining the tires. Unfortuntately it was for naught, and I then went up the chain at BFG and started to be more persuasive again to no avail. Thanks FlashingBlade. I basically have done the aforementioned to no avail, unfortunately. I then went to the canyons and beat on the tires, only to have them become out of balance! What a waste! I am going to have the alignment rechecked by another shop, and probably will replace them afterward. I know this topic has obviously gone on to far and beyond but a few points. I was extremely upset when I posted after getting the door shut on me. I actually could have lied ot the discount tire guy when I was on the phone with the BFG rep., as the manager asked if he was authorized to replace the tires, but I did not. The comment about me being a student on loans with a P car is also irritating and I admit that people may take it the wrong way instead of taking someone down a peg as a low blow equal to the tangental comment direct at me instead of furthering the post. Further, the comment meant to assail my character poured fuel on the fire. Eveything was taken out of context by these people and assumptions were made and built upon. I think some people sit on this forum just to insight just this behavior and the response that might follow, just as a tangental comment or character prodding will result. I always try and help people on this forum as my posts hopefully reflect and rarely do I find it necessary to reply to insults. What I think is most interesting is that everyone jumped on the bandwagon to slam me instead of actually consider other members behaviours and motivations, and give reflection on the context in which I made my comment in jest. If people thought I meant it in the literal sense I assuaged that notion by further comment. Obviously people wanted an effegy and they created a falsehood. Simular comments have been made with neither the scrutiny nor the consideration of motivation and context in which they were made. For those that chose to comment on my problem thanks, all others they need lighten up.

Rlandis... Just wanted to let you know that the same BFG thread appeared over in the RennTech forum with pretty much the same FLAME intensity. The moderator closed the thread with the comment below: Best... Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ BFG Topic, Discussion on BFG Tires and Related Thread deleted becuase of language and because it was getting a bit personal. Sorry about that. If you want to stay on topic w/o the language and personal references you can start here again.

I never even commented other than the initial post and the flame war was over a student having a Porsche-

I believe the "flame war" was over you referring to a well respected member of the Board as "gay" in a public forum, something for which you have yet to apologize. Once you made that reference, I, for one, lost interest in your problems with BFG. From your recent post, it is abundantly clear that you still don't "get it".

Perfect!

SPR, guys, romans... just chill abit. The guy was venting... SPR - you need to vent in a more restrained manner..I expect "Screw BFG!!!" is a pretty acceptable thread title on 6speedonline...but here, we probably respond better to : "Anyone else had cupping probs with BFG" "or "BFG customer services problems"..etc IMHO, I think you have what they call in the UK a "not fit for the intended purpose" issue with BFG. I expect that you probably can show that the tyre (tire in your case!) may not be performing within spec and get a replacement - especially if you've only covered a few 100 miles on them. Either way, good luck.

FWIW, I've have perfectly good tires cup because of an improper balance job. The tires felt balanced at speed, but they were not. Once the tires are cupped you can possibly salvage them by having the tires shaved. There are not many people who can shave cupped tires properly. Vilven Tire in Royal, IL is the only one I know of and I can vouch for the quality of their work.

A CHILL PILL Is Much Needed HERE ! As for the BFG - I am driving with the KDW and I love them, Grip is great and they look awesome. Nothing Else. Are they better than the PS2 or Conti they replaced, maybe, but I am not losing sleep over it. Let's all chill, I think SPR was simply venting, but the name calling should not be, this is a PORSCHE forum, not Honda. Come On Gents we are better than this.

That pretty much sums it up. And I was personally offended by the statement: Originally Posted by SPR I just thought it was a funny comment coming from someone who has a picture of themself as their avatar. There were other insults in other posts, and basically I'm drawn to the conclusion that some people are born on 3rd base and think they hit a triple. Peace, Rob

ok so i've read this whole thread killing some time right now and can't believe how this whole thing escalated... my thoughts below: (1) calling somebody gay or not is unacceptable (2) Making fun of somebody's avatar in retaliation is also unacceptable after all his/her ONLINE/FORUM presence is summed up by his/her posts + avatar. (3) Now having said that we live in a FREE world and I believe everyone here is expressing their opinions hopefully FREELY. I mean if I say the Boxster is a hairdresser's car it's my OWN opinion I don't have to worry if it offends a Surgeon who's driving a Boxster. I say that cause I feel SPR should be allowed to make comments or even generalizations about people that have their faces in avatars (in the same way I might do myself about people driving boxsters or wearing boots or ..... whatever it might be. PEOPLE who he didn't explicitly insult SHOULD NOT BE INSULTED (i.e. riad). (4) Lastly, why is it that everyone feels like Batman or some superhero and comes at somebody's help? If you've taken everything into perspective SPR was pissed off about something - yes he did use a foul language and acted in the spurr of the moment but come on give me a break 6 pages of posts and 80% of those are defending the "poor" person who got insulted. (5) I have to admit that I'd get equally pissed off if somebody said to me "wow law student and you can afford this?". My boss drives an Audi A4 convertible and I have a Porsche C2 Convertible and a Cayenne S is this something to judge me by? I'm 27 and I bought my first Porsche now, my dad had to wait till he was 40 - bottom line is - WHO CARES and why is it your business to make a stupid comment like that ? (6) To Moderator: I think this post should have been CLOSED long time ago... rgds, SM

I feel like I should be standing saluting the flag in honor of free speech! I gota tell you that this thread has been entertaining. The law school comment by Lee I thought was very humorous. I would not of taken it as Lee faulting me for my decision to buy a particular tire. I put my wife through law school and can tell you I never would have been able to afford a 911. I am not in any way puting down SPR. He is very lucky that he can. Bitch all you want 67 replies and counting! We all love this forum. BTW, I have seen Lee hold is own on this forum so I would not catagorize him as "The poor person got insulted" I think the folks on this forum are great and I enjoy all of you every day as I read through.

that's more like it.... " I enjoy all of you every day as I read through" now turn around and hug your fellow RennForum member

I would definitely give you a hug, just one problem...

SPR--chill man. JEEEEEZ. There are so many things in life we all lose sight of at times, but typically apologize for, later. Become a member, man-up and apologize for the previously mentioned comments.. Its the least you can do at this point.. You did crack me up with the notion of seeking civility on 6speed online..LOL!

Man up to what? I explained my position and made my retraction. Go find another scapegoat for your persecution. If you had any reading comprehension you wouldn't have made your comment.

Sheesh...digging a deep hole here.. Anyway, What's your recourse now with BFG?

Apologize. You were wrong.

Amen!

SPR- I was in law school a few years ago and I bought a 1997 BMW 5 series (E39), and when questioned about my "nice" car on "Roadfly" I just told everyone the truth....my parents helped me! No need to get defensive..... BTW, if you are having tire problems with BFG and no-one will help, sue in small claims court. If you are a 1L you should know that you can sue for breach of warranty, however, once you become a "real lawyer" you will realize that as soon as you file suit, it is very likely this case would "settle" anyway. Just my $.02. RVP

Dude, please know Decaf is available these days... BTW, your High School Principal called, he needs a note for yesterdays absence

High school huh? I graduated in 95. I have dual degrees in law and Econ with a minor in accounting. Now I am in law school. Your comments are so apt. I bought the car myself with my own dough as I ran a corporation before I went to law school as CEO. I am well aware of a small claims suit for breach as I am a 2L, but my time is more valuable in many ways. I will also not be around as I am going to summer school for business law classes in France on international business transactions etc. The problems is that many tire manufacturers blame the cupping on some aspect of my car- mechanical or aligment or shocks or whatever, so proximate causation on a defect for PL is fun to prove. A better suit would be to pursue tire rack for breach of warranty for fitness for a particular use, as they recommend the tire, as I noted before if you bothered to read that. This is the last rebuttal I will make as the people that are replying are sadists and are a waste of my time.

Dude, Are you on any personality modification medications?

SPR, you really don't want advice do you?? Yeah people are bashing you a little, because you deserve it, but you also fight against all the suggetions people have given.... what was the purpose of your original post.....a warning??? Again, file a "small" claim against Tirerack or BFG, under any cause of action you think is appropriate, believe me, TireRack or BFG do not want to pay a lawyer/take the time to defend the case and will probably refund your money/give you new tires just to get rid of you..... It's worth $20-ish and 10 minutes to fill out the form (which probably is available in PDF on the web). Just free advice, take it or leave it. RVP

I have this morbid curiosity and keep clicking on this thread, it just keeps getting funnier and funnier.

Hey comrade rennlisters, strap this on. " He that will not reason is a bigot. He that cannot reason is a fool. And he that dares not reason is a slave." - Branch Rickey, American baseball player.{1881-1965]

Huh? When did this get into sexual perversion? When you are constructing your replies with that dictionary by your side you really should look up some of those words as well. While I find great humor in this thread and how easy it is to sit back and watch the fireworks....it really is sad b/c you could have avoided this from the very beginning had you refrained from the name calling and the over reacting. Let's sum up this with a simple formula....... short fuse + over reacting + name calling + 2000 posts and not a member = NOT TAKEN SERIOUSLY

**reaches for popcorn** the drama keeps continuing

Hooray....best news I've heard from this mentally challenged freak!!!!

The funniest part is that there is only one person whose standing and credibility has been damaged. I guess spittle-flecked invective just never really reaches escape velocity

I do find it amusing that SPR uses phrases such as "Your comments are so apt." I don't even know what that means, exactly. I am curious which law school SPR attends, and whether it is ABA accredited?? I must say, I would have loved to go to France to take some classes, doubt that I would have done much studying though.....

This is like checking out the political threads in the Off Topic section...a very entertaining train wreck. Backn on the original topic of the cupping....while the tire is a possible problem, more than likely the problem is in your suspension geometry. Just ask all those early Nissan Z owners if the tires make a difference. While someone may have the same �setup� as you it does not mean their suspension is �exactly� like yours, especially considering that the PSS-9�s have a completely adjustable ride height. The slight variances could have caused the problem. Additionally from my understanding, once the tires are cupped a fix of the suspension geometry is not going to solve the problem on that set of cupped tires (unless the cupping is �fixed� on that set of tires). I know you indicated you have had the alignment redone, but have you installed new tires with the new alignment? The cupped tires will still cause the problems even if the alignment is correct. Ok back to our regularly scheduled entertainment

The manufacturer's party line of blaming the car is not true in every sense. My '02 WRX cupped with the same suspension that the non-cupped stock tires came off of; with a proper alignment. Just to give a little credence to the intended focus of this thread. SPR, the more of your ego that gets put on the internet just feeds the agents in the Matrix. It is a keyboard interface. Take nothing personal and give nothing personal that can hurt you. Better yet, sticks and stones.... Remember that one. Just $.02.

Heck, I may do this myself... Let me guess SPR.....Western State law? No? Back to the original, original topic. Cupping, as others have suggested, typically stems from worn suspension components, bad alignment, improperly loaded tires etc. Many times it is not the tires themselves, just that tires are the result of such problems and is the 'wear item' and the louder 'tattletale' of the whole assembly. FWIW

Can we all just get along

Chris, I offered the same comments regarding cupping as you did, only about 4 pages back. SPR prefers to denigrate BFG and various Rennlist folk. Trollish behavior I think. He has no desire to learn what causes cupping since he has DECIDED it's the tires. His DECISION is FINAL. Will his next rant be about Michelin because their tires also cup? Best,

Bob, I thought echoing the previously mentioned, great advice would help. I hope so, really. Yes, his decision is final. Now lets go tally the votes.. After which, the person voted-off will be asked to leave tribal council immediately..

Who knows but stay tuned! Same Bat Time-Same Bat Channel!

Strangely enough, this fellow is beginning to sound a bit like GhettoRacer. His initial rant is called an ejaculation of frustration. Sort of the type that builds up like an org*sm, but you cannot hold it back....

Very entertaining indeed.

Arthur - I agree - similar style but the choice of language is too erudite for Ghetto. "can I drove your car?"

Agree. Perhaps some tires depending on tread pattern, treadwear rating, or some other composition variable express the inherent suspension problem quicker than others. Thanks for spinning this back on course to give other than entertainment value to the thread.

Speqaking of Ghetto - can-I-drove-your-car, his open letter thread on the DE forum was 2 yrs old this week!

I swore, mean sware, or is it swear, who cares anyways, its not like this is a spelling bee? Bea? B? and SPR is grading me. If he was, i think i would get an "A" three times. But, i haven't had this much fun by meself, myself, damn there i go again!!! (i am not trying to be mean, its just that i am laughing so hard i cant even tipe, no wait i mean type, i think at one point i even leaked a little.LOOOLOOOLOOOL!!! As far as the original tire problem, until you type the following 7 letters { IM SORRY} to the respected gentleman, who cares about your out of wack? whack? Whak? rubber. Maybe its not the tire thats out of round??? You did fill them up with air right? LOL! If not just stick an air hose from your overinflated ego directly to the tire, and fill. P.S. please feel free to make any comments you chose, i mean choose.LOL

Wow, now that was entertaining...I think I know SPR and this seems a bit strange...SPR if you see this, go to Mirage International in San Diego and see Jae Lee...Best Porsche suspension specialist in town.... Ben, Is SPR who i think it is?

yes, the black 996 C2 that day.