Thoughts on this car - '01 C4 Cab?

Title says it all. Details and More Pictures: 2001 C4 Cab in Bellevue I'm on the opposite coast! Any thoughts/assistance would be appreciated. -Eric

I live a mile from there if you want a local to eyeball the car let me know

If you don't mind, I'd really appreciate it! Thanks so much! -Eric

Looks like a beautiful car, but they are asking too much, IMHO. q

Pm me what you are looking for, what specific things are unacceptable and what things you can live with (ie road rash, seat bolsters minor scratches) I also have a very good shop right close by that is ahas expert 996 techs and can do a very good ppi if we getto that step. PP knows how to shiip cars, they do it all the time. I can take photos and send the info via emaijl if you include thatg in your pm Ed

Yeah, I think the price is high, too, based on what I've seen in the market. What do you think would be an appropriate price assuming it checked out well? Any thoughts, suggestions, comments or whatever are greatly appreciated. I'm a long time Porsche enthusiast but this is my first actual purchase...and the 911 has always been my dream car. It's also my first real used car purchase (outside of my '73 Saab) so I'm a relative newbie in this arena. -Eric

I'm a little jealous you're still shopping, that was at least half the fun. Oh well, guess I'll have to go drive mine to work - that ought to put a smile on my face. Good luck with your shopping and searching! It's a good thing members here are willing to go deal with dealership sharks just to check it out for you!

Price too high... nice options, 37 should get you a 03or04.

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ever considered MODS twice the fun

That seems pricey for an '01. Also, I didn't realize that '01 came with a GPS option. Is that a custom stereo/gps interface or was that an option in '01. I would love that in my '02!

I guess the other question (and I got your PM with the details) is: what is it about this car that caught your eye, yes priced pretty high IMO too, but YOU are the one researching and you saw the price already and wanted to take a closer look, something makes it a better candidate than cars you have seen locally. I plan to swing by there after work with my little 3.2 supposed to be rainy off and on, if its wet I wont get a really good look at the paint and such but by mid-week we are supposed to see the sun again...

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What principally caught my eye were the color, options and potential condition/mileage of the car. I've been looking pretty diligently for the past week or so and other than a car that was already sold at a local Porsche dealer haven't actually come across a single 996 C4 Cab local to me. Do this whenever it is convenient to you. No need to go out in the rain. If you can't make it until next week that's fine. If it's meant to be, it's meant to be. and, like I said in my PM, you're doing me a big favor by even offering to take a look at the car which I really appreciate. More importantly, if you think the pricing is just way too high and the dealer probably won't come down enough to make it worthwhile then don't waste your time. I guess that raises a question about negotiation. I know it varies by dealer/individual but how much do you see dealers/sellers moving on price? Based on what I've seen, I'm thinking this car should probably be priced closer to $31K...no? What do you guys think? -Eric

well IMO.... buy the best car and THEN worry about the price. and yes with thte low miles it should be almost pristine. PP has a tendency to start high, I am not sure what they have for room to negociate but I think if it passes step #1 you have to work on them for a better price, then proceed with a PPI at the shop I am recommending THEN re-negociate using the results from the PPI as leverage (unless the PPI reveals nothing, which "could" happen, but normally doesnt) I'll let you know, I actually like looking too, so its fun for me to have a reason to look E

If it checks out I would offer $30k and stick with it. I bet you could get it for close to $30k. They are just fishing at $37k in my opinion.

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I know I know! The problem is I'm torn! With the amount most people spend on mods around here they could have just bought a 996 turbo and been done with it! I'm okay with the 320 hp, of course I would like moreeeee....but doesn't seem to be too much to gain in the power department from the NA 996. Sound could be improved but a quality exhaust is 2k+ . That's also depressing. Then a flash is another grand. If I wanted all that and a stronger transmition, should have bought a turbo. I've got my eye on a lot of things, but I'm afraid the responsible thing to do is the IMS in Feb when the CPO runs out. Until then, I can always hope it blows up and then I'll replace it with an X51 equipped core....

I paid 36k for a 01 cab with har top in 2006 So this is way over priced If u looking to spend 35k plus, and open to coupe, check out 996 turbo, the best deal in the used sports car market

A coupe would be easier on the budget, much easier to find and, like you said, open up options like a Turbo...but I'm really looking for a cab. If I wanted a coupe, my preference would be a 993TT...in Arena Red but that's a topic for a different day. -Eric

Price is high; agree with previous posts. Not only is that the price for a 2003-2004, but it's the price of an S, which this is not. The comments on options and "lowest mileage 996" are hard to validate. Many of those options ("supple leather," "xenon lamps," "bose") are almost "stock" given the number of times you will find them in a car for sale. 30K for a 996 is reasonable; I've seen at least three other cars (including my own) that were purchased at 30K miles, in "perfect" condition. Yes, I'm using a lot of "quotes," on purpose. Agree that 30K is a good price; sure it's a hard-top cab, but still....I see it as at least 5-6K over. Just my opinion.

Thanks again for all of the advice and opinions -- that's what I want to hear! I'd be very happy with an '02 or newer car but do you really think I could find a low mileage 996 C4 S Cabriolet for $36-37K? -Eric

OK I am going to be pretty nit picky with this because it has 30k miles and they are asking a premium price...it should be in premium shape... the tire are RE 760's 265 R and 225 F brand new fronts and basically new rears.there is a single nick in the right rear wheel. The right front is scratched and the left rear is lightly curbed in 2 places. both the lower air dams on in front of the tires are broken off like someone hit a curb...the bottom of the tub is pushed up indicating the same. The front clip is too clean on the bottom..so I suspect re-spray..after very careful inspection I finally found some evidence of that.. The drivers side under the door has also been re-sprayed and the blend continues up the door and rear quarter...its was extreamly hard to see but i got the light right and found the evidence that supposrted the flaking behind the drivers front tire.. there are several scratches in the paint and some scuffed areas, one door ding in the felt front fender. the motor was clean and stock it had a new washer under the tensioner for the 1-3 bank so suspect some sort of work done...otherwise nothing notable from a quick glance. trunk area is missing a couple of the little nuts that hold the battery cover (normal stuff) and otherwise fine. inside, ther rear seats are pristine except for a cracked speaker gril, hard to see. Otherwise mint in back. the drivers door has some minor wear and a scratch on top of the sill. passenger seat has a gouge in it, might be less noticable with some rejuvinator. Center console is scratched up, otherwise all OK. drivers seat has some sort of a spot looks like water sat on the seat. The top is very tired and will be needing replacement in a couple seasons, not horrible, not pristine, passenger door micro switch for window sticks too. Overall the car is nice, really nice and with some work could be better..that's were I have trouble due to the fact that it is low miles I guess it saw a lot of garage damage from bikes and stuff. Maybe didnt get used. The paint was slopped on fairly hastily and that would be my biggest concern. Looks like it was to cover some road rash, but if you are really really picky...and look really hard..its pretty poorly done... from any angle other than on your knees, it looks great... the reason I got so picky was the flaking behind the front tire that made me look real hard. take it for what it is....think hard and let me know if you want me to put my teamof guys to work checking it out from every angle you can think of.... pics included, I have high res if you want them. Ed (sorry the paint condition pics are not better,....cell phone is pretty limited on features

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First of all, thank you again for taking time out of your week to look at this car for me. I really appreciate it! I've re-read your post a few times and keep coming back to your initial statement: Price. For $38K, the car should be pristine; not really nice but 1/2 resprayed with some broken air dams. Now, to your point, none of the broken bits you mentioned sound like they're anything major. So, it all boils down to nits and gnats that might otherwise be more acceptable on a car priced $8K less. I'm not happy with the extent of respray but I'm more bothered by the fact that it doesn't sound like it was done properly and that the lower air dams are still broken or were broken subsequent to the respray. It just seems like whoever owned it probably didn't baby it -- it was just a (cool) mode of transportation. The interior pics didn't strike me as that bad...if it weren't for the price...which is, again, where my head keeps going on this car. I think it might be worthwhile waiting to see what the market bears in the coming week or so before I'd ask anyone to take a closer look at it. Do you think I'm being too cautious or ****? At the current price, I can't imagine the car going somewhere any time soon and I think it's going to take a lot of negotiation to get the dealer to come anywhere near what I think the car might be worth -- assuming they'd ever drop their price that much. What do you guys think? Thanks again, Ed! -Eric

I have a contct name for you too. I agree, it won't be going anywhere today and I am being really picky. As stated its avery nice car aside from a the little things that mos likely happened in the garage due to just not protecting it. Maybe it was a second car or the wife's or a weekend thing or maybe they bought it and found out they really didn't have the desire to really onw and use it. I would like to see a more pristine example for that money but again the low miles seems like a plus to some. If I bought it I would have ims swapped right away due to the low miles/high probability factor Anyhow let me know, ild be happy to take it out for a test drive for you

Get a C4S for that kinda money!

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I've been reading through a lot of the posts on this site and elsewhere on the Internet trying to get a better grasp of the IMS and RMS issues. Is the IMS problem the kind of thing that any 996 buyer should budget to address immediately with an IMS Retrofit Kit from LN? Is there any consensus on whether the IMS issue diminishes with newer model years? In other words, is an '02 IMS inherently better than an '01? If you venture onto Swedespeed's R Forum, you'll read countless complaints of angle gear failures when the reality is that very few R owners have had an angle gear failure. I don't doubt that IMS failure is a real issue. I've read a lot of posts by people saying that IMS failure is probably limited to 5-10% of the engines but if your engine falls into that 5-10% then you're looking at a hefty bill. I'm just trying to get a better grasp on whether its enough of a risk that I should focus my attention on newer 996es or if newer 996es experience failure at the same rate. -Eric

Get a 02+ C4S and get the retrofit kit done and you're straight. Good to go after that!

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Think I can find a nice, low mileage C4S Cab for $38K?

absolutely. i recently purchased a low mileage '02 C4 Cab for a little less than that. Wasn't an S but in '02, i'm not sure the "S" added any performance enhancements for that model year. I think it was just body appearance until 2003.

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If you have patience, you can easily find a C4S cab for 38K! Just keep looking everywhere, and take your time.

Probably; you can find a dealer non-cab for lower than that, so I'm thinking given the bump-up for a few thousand for the cab, non-dealer, yes you can. If you want a dealer-ready car, you're probably looking at or above that price, but still lower than $40K. I'm defining low miles as 5-7K per year, for a total of 30-45K.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/2460706500.html whoops, not C4 (or at least doesnt say)

The earliest C4S Cab I've ever seen advertised is a 2004 and, at least on dealer sites, they're all advertised at $49K+. I've seen 2002 coupes before but sites like Edmunds don't list a C4S Cab model as available before 2004. What's interesting is that I have a friend who swears he had an '02 C4S Cab and that he has a friend who currently owns one -- of course, he says its worth $50K. Anyway, was the "S" a separate package in '02 and not a separate model? -Eric

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Interesting. On the site they actually call it a "Carrera Cabriolet 4" but from the description (and the pictures on the BMW dealer site) it's clearly a RWD car. Nice looking car though. http://www.bmwbellevue.com/VehicleDe...-WA/1096223773 -Eric

Does it come with $15,000 in the frunk? I have no data other than personal experience and what I read. Excellence puts the C4 non-S cab at $27,900 low and $37,400 high in 2003; C4S cab at $34,400 low and 46,000 high in 2004. The S technically gets you looks, including the must-have red calipers. You are correct in that it does not get you power (neither torque nor hp). In any case, $50,000 for a 2004 C4S cab better be perfect.

My friend's friend's C4S Cab is evidently a '02 with about 19K miles. He says it's pristine but if the "S" was just a body kit in 2002 then I can't imagine how it could be worth more than $37K or so based on what you and others are saying. I'd love a wide body but I'm not dead set on it. I didn't start looking with one in mind as an option because I kind of figured it would be way out of my price range (evidently not). -Eric

There's a local(PA) dealer that has a 03 C4 cab 70k+ miles for something like 31k or something...search craigslist philly...it's silver though

I've actually seen it. Silver is fine but 71K miles is a lot higher than I'd like to consider. I'd rather spend a little more or just find an older car with lower mileage. It's also a Tip and I'm looking for a Manual. Thanks for the suggestion though! -Eric

You can get an 04 Turbo cab with a CPO within spitting distance of 50. I know this for a fact. Upper 30's is about right for a 04 C4S cab with low mileage. Low 40's if you are in love with it and the car is immaculate. Use NADA to find the wholesale and retail values. KBB and edmunds are overstated intentionally. Negotiate using NADA wholesale values as the basis if from a dealer. That is their basis in the car. I promise. If you negotiate from KBB or Edmund's you will pay too much. There is a good thread on this topic in the 996 turbo forum right now. I'm new to Porsche, but I know a lot about the car industry and how these prices are set and used by dealers. They aren't emotionally attached to the cars. They want to turn inventory at a profit. If you take the time to research and are patient, you can use that to your advantage.

I like your thinking Eric, keep in mind low mile cars suffer some failures and be ready when you buy one to be proactive about those things

Eric (sorry for the error): Prices on these 996 NA cars are all over the place. Last November, I bought a 2004 Targa with 25K miles on it for $31.5K. That was a solid price for a car that had a bit of cosmetic damage to the rosewood interior trim. Other than that, the car was damn close to pristine. I know that Cab and C4S will command more money, but prices on these cars are very fluid right now. Also, I tend to be pretty picky when it comes to selecting a Porsche. Through other circumstances (an accident and a wonderful insurance settlement) I am now the proud owner of a 2001 Turbo. I am proud of my car, drive it daily, wash it weekly and wax it monthly. The car looks like new, but when I bought it, it looked great, and a little TLC brought it the extra step. You CAN find a car that was babied by its owner. You can also find an owner that wants to sell now - even if it's a dealer that has had a car on his lot for 90 days and wants to move his inventory. Don't be rushed into a car that on the surface doesn't meet your standards. Even though I love Lapis Blue, this car has too many cosmetic things wrong with it to make me interested. Move on. If you buy it, every time you sit in it, you will look at the scratches and keep thinking of how much it will cost to fix this and that. Bad respray is a dealer trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Good luck with your search, because I don't think this is the car for you. larry

Dude, i can't believe that kind of price, thats crazy for a 2001, wow! you can get an 02 + C4s with even lower miles for that price... that price is close to a 2005 997 price even

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hey Larry, I think Sue's name is Eric

Also confused about the SuEric gender issue... SuEric, here's one to look at: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

Aaah, this always comes up eventually. lol To avoid any confusion, my name is not Sue. It is Eric. My wife's name is not Sue and none of my kids' names is Sue. In fact, there is no "Sue" in my household. "Sue Esponte" started out as an inside joke (not a very funny one either) among a couple friends years (decades?) ago. I've been using it so long that it just became old habit. Sue Esponte is a play on the latin phrase "sua sponte" (meaning "of ones own accord") and nothing more. Sorry to disappoint anyone expecting a more exciting story or explanation. There have been no transgender or cross dressing issues involved in the posting of this message! lol -Eric

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I was wondering if it was something in Spanish or perhaps a legal imperative. q

Sue - for reference, I bought a 2005 C4S in the little town in CT- just across the border from NY (exit 3 on I-95) for $35,000. It had high mileage (85k) but it came with a two year CPO.

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"My NAME IS SUE! HOW DO YOU DO?!!! NOW YOU GONNA DIE!!!!" I had too.

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Yes, kinda noticed that. Hey, if your name is Eric, why have a login ID as Sue Esponte? You've got me totally confused. Maybe that's "his" Saturday Nite name!!! larry

LoL and LOL

Porsche: There is no Suebstitute.

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I'm assuming you got it from New Country in Greenwich. That's a great price on an '05 but mileage had to play into it quite a bit...even with CPO. Still sounds like a great deal especially from a dealer. I'll definitely look more closely at the NADA pricing and see what I can determine. I'm sure it doesn't help that there are brokers on both sides. -Eric