What is the consensus around here for lowering springs...

I just purchased this and will pass on X74 option. http://www.986host.com/albums/EltonF...1118.sized.jpg Any help would be appreciated

the H&R springs are great. you'll need to match them with some bilstein HD shocks if you really want that planted feel. otherwise it rides just like stock, but lower. there's a bunch of threads on this out there already, do a search for more info.

The usual consenus around here is that springs alone are a bad idea. The best solution is springs and properly matched shocks. The H&R/Bilstein HD is popular. There are also a few coilover solutions like the PSS-9's. I am just curious...why not the X74 setup?

Congrats on the new ride. Many people lower the car, ROW M030 is one option, X74 is another, then there are other setups as mentioned above. US cars are higher than their Eur/ROW counter parts cause law states the bumper needs to be a certain height. The car was designed to be a little lower, and handles appreciably better when it is.

I'm waiting on some cargraphic springs. I don't race. Just want it lower and keep the stock ride. Lowers the car 30mm front and rear. I'll let you know how they work out and post some pics.

This is not your little brother's Civic...you should NEVER just change springs only on any high performance car.

that's an ignorant response. these aren't $49 intrax springs off ebay. the higher end springs have been designed to work specifically with the stock shock's rebound and dampening. techart and cargraphic don't sell products that don't work. there are no negative effects of using a high quality set of springs, other than possibly shorter shock life. Handling is slightly improved, ride quality usually remains the same, and appearance is certainly improved with the small drop. 30mm does not tax the stock shocks significantly enough to change their performance and if i'm not mistaken, the euro models come with the same shocks as ours except they are given 20mm drop with springs. yes, the honda springs that drop thier cars 50-75mm is a bit over board and the stock shocks could never hope to handle that, resulting in a bouncy ride. I could be mistaken on this fact, but doesn't porsche even offer a suspension upgrade that consists of lowering springs (20mm drop) and sway bars? My car handles fine the way it is. I like the way it rides. It is not a daily driver and I don't take it to the track. I don't want to slam my car down three inches and I don't want a harsh ride. I already have 19's on there and that has stiffened the ride up some. Can you give me one good reason why I should spend $2000 plus another grand for installation for a race suspension when all I want is to get rid of some of the fender gap and maintain the stock ride?

deputydog95, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I was going to get the H&R springs with the Bilsteins HD shocks installed on my C4. However, Performance Products failed to inform me that Bilstein doesn't have the HD shocks for the C4 available in the US yet and they sent me the front shocks for the C2, which didn't fit. Anyways, I now have H&R springs with rear Bilstein HD shocks and stock front shocks. I don't track the car and for street use it handles fine and I like having the car lowered.

Just a couple of thoughts: I purchased a 993 that was lowered using H&R springs (not cheap as they are around $400) and the stock shocks and sway bars. Compared to the stock 993 I have driven, it definitely degraded the ride. The car had a much more bouncy ride that took a few oscillations to settle and did not absorb larger imperfections in the road as the stock set up. I did however, have a much lower center of gravity and the car did not exhibit as much body roll as a stock car. However the degraded ride was not worth this. Additionally the rear shocks were toast at 42k miles (about 10k after the springs were installed according to the records) with severe leaking of fluid (from the looks under the car it had probably been happening for a good 2k miles). In stead of replacing the factory shocks I stepped up to PSS-9�s on the car and totally changed the handling. On the 996, the ROW std. suspension is only 10mm lower in the front. You may want to check out the following article analyzing the various factory suspensions on the 996: http://www.pca.org/panorama/sample_article_3.html Another thing to consider is the unknown long term durability of the factory shocks on the 996. On the 993 the factory suspension showed signs of wear as quickly as 15-20k miles. However, the degradation was gradual and a driver would probably not notice the wear unless he/she compared it to a fresh set up (but it was happening). The addition of lowering springs definitely quickened the process.

To each his own. Everybody has an opinion. I'm not sure what deal was with your 993. There could be a lot of factors involved there (road conditions, temp, condition of the shocks prior to install, etc). I've talked to a lot of people that have done just springs and are very happy with them. From what I've been told, H&R and Eibach tend to much harsher than the rest. On previously owned vehicles, I've done both coilovers and just springs. Other than the custom drop, I didn't notice a huge difference between the two, but then again I don't track my car. As far as longevity, I only drive my car around 5K miles a year. At that rate I should get several years without any serious problems. I've been following the PSS9 threads and it seems that you have to replace the shocks on them every two to three years, so you're in the same boat. Again, not knocking the coilover setups. It's definatley the most professional way to go. But for a weekend poser like me that does very little mileage, no track time, needs a soft ride, and just wants an improved appearance....they're perfect. Now my track weapon of choice only has two wheels and a full ohlins suspension...but that's a different story. when you're cranked over at 80 mph with your knee dragging, i won't compromise on suspension.

Assuming you have the stock factory shocks, you will not be able to keep the stock ride. In fact, with any lowering springs, your ride will change one way or another. In your case, it will be choppy and on the harsh side. Nobody, and I mean nobody makes lowering springs to match your stock shocks. This is especially true of springs that lower a given car more than 3/4". The biggest disadvantage will be a case of bottoming out. Unless of course, you just cruise around in a straight line on butter smooth roads all day long.

Nope. I'm afraid that, in this case, it is a matter of black or white.

Yes, because springs alone won't do it. On my Boxster put Eibach springs on it. It got STIFF! On my 996 I don't want that stiff ride so I did research and talked to lots of people. The PSS9's are the way to go because you can adjust the settings to your liking. From SOFTER THAN STOCK to HARDER THAN STOCK as well as adjust your ride height. So, if you want the stock ride, with a lowered look, you can only get that from a coilover setup, or specifically match springs and shocks. Which is what a coilover setup is. If you go with just springs and match shocks to them, you don't have ride height adjustability or shock adjustability. I am getting the PSS9's so on commute days, it can be nice and smooth, but when I wanna hit the canyons for a run, I can make them nice and firm. Best or both worlds.

"Unless of course, you just cruise around in a straight line on butter smooth roads all day long." Did I mention I live in FL? Seriously, I've never heard of one person complaining about hitting the bump stops. Do you know anyone on here personally that has done just springs and was really unhappy? I don't. A guy over over at 6speedonline just did a set of techarts and was really pleased.

All I can say is that the Eibach's blow. I've used them before with a coilover setup, and have heard other people complain the ride quality with just the eibach springs. Somebody pipe up that has used either techart or cargraphic. All springs are not created equal. Again, I'm not bashing coilovers. They are an optimal setup for street racing or track driving. And if you want to spend the money for street use, I say go for it. I don't need a lesson on what they are or are not. I've used them on my bmw before. All I'm saying is it's not mandatory on a non-tracked car and I think it's overkill on a street only machine.

Well, I've never been to FL. Does that mean, yes you cruise around in a straight line, yes you have butter smooth roads, or both? Yes, yours truly. That was when I was young, stupid and did not listen to anyone. Does he live in FL?

Overkill only if you want a decent ride quality and adjustability. If you just wanna drop it...Put on springs. And again, unless you add shocks, it'll "bounce"...Even the ROW M030 sport supension is harsh, that is with new springs and shocks.

Yes, it is as much overkill as a Porsche is. We could all be driving Honda's and Nissan's for less than half the price of a Porsche instead. No one needs a P-car, right?

Elton, Congratulations on the 40th! It's a great car that deserves a well thought out suspension. It's standard M030 suspension leaves it a little to high in my opinion. It handles well but the front end feels floaty at high speeds. I take mine to the track so I chose the Bilstein PSS9 kit and lowered the car about one inch from stock. I'll post some pictures when I get home late tonight and take some measurements. The car handles great! I just finished two track days at Laguna Seca where the car shined. The Bilstein PSS9's also ride better than the stock kit over sharp bumps and undulations. I can't speak for the X-74 kit.

You guys need lighten up. Yes, the roads in FL are straight and smooth. We have almost no elevation changes. At least where I live anyway. It's a very boring place to drive. You've not nice twisties in CA. Why so nasty about it? You work for bilstein or something? Isn't it possible that there are people out there who used a quality set of springs and are happy with it? I asked probably about ten people that have done it to their 996's with good results and no complaints. I've had experience doing it both ways (springs and coil overs). I liked them both. I didn't have any problems with just doing springs. I will admit I've never done it on a p-car. Maybe I'll find out the hard way because I'm "young and stupid". If you can't respond without being a ballbuster, just don't say anything. This is supposed to be a friendly place to exchange info.

Who needs to lighten up? Us or you? Seems to me that you're the one on the heavy side here. Everyone gave you a polite answer, and I was as direct as I can be. Also, no one called you young and stupid. In case you didn't realize it, that was me I was referring to. You're just upset because no one gave you the answer you wanted to hear. Good luck with your suspension mods.

I can't believe I'm even continuing this... Yes, I realized that you were referring to yourself. Yes, you need to lighten up. No, I'm not mad that two people on here do not agree with me. You being polite...No. Sarcastic and condescending...Yes. Just for the record, I spoke to the tech at cargraphic today. Their springs are built at H&R's factory to cargaphic's specifications. Their springs are also TUV approved. The tech has a 996 with 30K miles on the stock suspension and their lowering springs with no problems at all. He said ride is slightly stiffer than stock (but not diminished) and highly recommends them to someone who wants reduced ride height and does not track the car. He also said that they have sold dozens and dozens of springs for 996's with no complaints. Just because you think it should be done one way, doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. I'm done.

no. both factory suspension kits for the base 996 (row m030 and x74) provide new front struts and rear dampers that are specifically valved for the shorter--and higher rate--springs. porsche doesn't offer a kit with just springs and anti-roll bars alone. if you want to drop your car 30mm and do it right, the x74 is a no-brainer.

If some of you **** guys read the PCA article on sport suspensions yes they don't recomend mixing shocks and springs. However use some reasoning when you make your decission. The PCA is not gonna recomend mixing due to possible legal reasons. If you also look at the data the US M030 shocks were alot softer than the standard set up. The US M030 springs are the same rate as the ROW M030. The reasoning that the shocks and spring don't match is dangerous is blown out of the water here. Also the ROW front shcok was a little softer than the std. shocks. The rear shock were different where both sport suspension were stiffer than the std shocks. IMO the sport suspension shock set up the car for more oversteer and make the car hav a better turn in. I have used the Eibach on stock shocks and they did work OK. The problem was that the car was a little low for my driveway and switch to ROW. It raised the car 1/2 inch. The bouncing and mis handling as many of these so called experts are talking about will only be notice under extreme use, and I think for a street use only it will be OK. The ride is gonna get harsh, but you will get that anytime you stiffen the springs. The guys who actually believe that the PSS9 can ride as soft as stock and great on the track is delusional. 1st in order to ride near stock the spring must be the same rate as the stocks. If it was gonna handle like the X74 it can not happen unless the springs are substantially stiffer than stock. I don't know the actuall rate on the PSS9, but in order to get the best of both worlds the rates are probably some where between the X74 and Std or more like a M030. The adjustable shocks does help give the best of both worlds, it can only do so much. I'm not discourageing the PSS9, I'm sure its a great system. Look if you want to save money and try the H&R then do it. They will work OK if your not tracking the car . Its not optimal, but you can always put on some Bilstein later too. Just my 0.02

Go ahead and buy just the springs and install them. Then a year or so later when you are pissed that your car doesn't handle or ride right, trade it in to the dealer. Then a real enthusiast, who has done his homework, will buy the car and put the right suspension on it and love it.

Let me try to put it another way: I come from a family of pilots, and we have owned everything from a Cessna 172 (The Honda Civic of planes) to a BAE Hawker jet (the GT2 of planes). The simple fact is that parts for the jet cost a hell of a lot more than the parts for a Cessna. There is no way that I would try to make a solution designed for a Cessna try to work on a Hawker - not only would it not pass FAA inspection, it would be plain unsafe. The same comparison can be made with cars. Can you JUST change springs on your P-car? Yes. Will it affect you right away? Probably not. However, the ride quality would be diminished and eventually safety just might become an issue (like when you're cruising a canyon 6 months down the line and a deer is in the middle of the road forcing you to swerve...only you start to lose the car instead). The fact is that dampers are valved to respond to a certain rebound rate of a matching spring. Once you change either part of that equation, you have a mismatch and the possibility for a bad ride at the least and a fatal condition at the worst. Finally, with all due respect to DeputyDog, if all you do is drive in a straight line on buttery roads then 1. Why do you have a Porsche? 2. Why did you bother changing anything with respect to suspension? I think that most of the people inquiring about performance mods are people who enjoy driving their cars aggressively (some people might call it dangerously) , and that should be the standard of judgment for reliability and performance of any car mod.

This thread is going the wrong direction with personal attacks. I don't think I'm delusional that the PSS9's on the 40th Anniversary 911 ride better and handle better than the stock M030. Here's a picture of my car with PSS0's and a friend with his C2 and H&R springs at Thunderhill. The 40th is a special car where all of its bits and pieces have been made to work together. Why go cheap and get lowering springs at the expense of performance. Do it right the first time and get a set of springs and shocks that have been designed to work together. Go with what ever brand you like, but get something designed to work together.

Trojan: Why do I have a Porsche? Because I can. I love the way the car looks and drives. Simple as that. I had a boxster and it was the logical upgrade. Not everybody buys a porsche to race at club events or drive like a maniac on the public streets. Some of us just like to drive with the top down in a cool german car. I do my track time on my aprilia. Track time in a car just doesn't do it for me. Why would I want to change the suspension? For the same reason I put cargraphic 19's on, a cargraphic exhaust, and the turbo bumper. Just adds to the car. I love the way it looks and sounds. Looks kind of funky all jacked up on the stock suspension. When I did coilovers on my bmw, it just seemed like major overkill. I never once adjusted them. Could have saved a bunch of money even doing just springs AND shocks. You may have convinced me to at least throw some bilsteins on with the cargraphic springs. I never debated the longetivity issues with installation of just springs. The coilovers for this application just don't make sense for what I want to do. I will never crank it up to firm, and I don't want to bury the top of my tire in the fender wells. So with that in mind: In conjunction with the cargraphic springs... Bilstein HD or Sports. I have read that most people use HD's with lowering springs. However, the HD's are listed for use with oem shocks and the Sports are listed as to be used with lowering springs. So what gives there? Which is the proper one to use?

Are you for real?

Yes. Why?

Because you take over another user's thread, step on your dick with golf spikes on, **** off all the people that could help you and then turn around and ask those same people for help on the very subject that you were so against in the first place. At least be smart enough to start your own shock thread and hope that none of the other helpful people here have seen this thread.

To set the record straight: I NEVER said you have to use a coilover setup; I simply said that the damper must be matched to the spring. However, now that you brought it up, most people feel that the best way to accomplish that match is with the use of a coilover. Finally, and I say this without any malice or ill will - just common sense: It is simply unfair to call a coilover setup "overkill" for a Porsche. Unless you call it overkill in the same way that buying a Porsche for daily driving is "overkill" - in which case why don't you take the "overkill" one more step and have a bitchin suspension setup. No hard feelings

Why does it seem that the more posts you have is directly proportional to how much of dick you become? I shouldn't even sink to this level, but I don't know why I'm being attacked personally when we're talking about suspension parts. It's not like I brought up your mom I didn't take over the thread. I chimed in and this thing kept going. It's still directly related to his question. I'm not against doing the full suspension. How many times do I have to say that? I just want to do the absolute minumum to lower my car strictly for appearance. Safely and reliably. The info I had was that it could be done with just springs. I called brandywine just this morning to check on some prices, and yet again...i was told that it was fine to do just springs with porsche stock shocks and that many people do it. I can't help it if I'm gettting contradicting information. Step on my dick? **** on people... Could you be a little more dramatic? I'm at least listening to what you guys have to say. I'm not so opinated that I have to be right. I'm trying to be enlightened here, as the information I get from outside sources has been different. I can't believe you guys are getting this heated over car parts. Can you or anybody else answer my question or not? If you choose not to answer my question because you don't like me or my posts, then just don't say anything. Enough with the personal stuff. All I'm looking for is some accurate info from people with experience.

So Elton, what do you think???

DD95. I am not a dick. Far from it. I enjoy helping people who sincerely want help. Hence my tireless three year effort to force Porsche the company to issue a recall on the 993 wiring harness. Tens of thousands of porsche owners were helped by my direct actions. So I can be helpful. But to answer your question, in a non direct way: I had H&R springs on my 993 without changing the shocks. The ride was so harsh I broke a rib. Well, not exactly, but you get the idea. Of course the shocks pretty worn too, but the difference between stock shocks and H&R springs was pretty big. I sold the car before putting on a proper suspension. I have driven and ridden in lots of 996s with various suspensions. The bottom line is that you may be fine with just springs, but I wouldn't do it. Just get some beefier shocks, maybe the HD or some other ones. Plus, think of this: stock shocks on any 911 dont last too long. So you will be replacing them eventually anyway, why not do it now as preventive medicine and enjoy the better ride afforded by a proper setup? Especially since it costs the same to change just springs or springs and shocks. Either way, you'll need an alignment job too.

Let me chime in as well. I am speaking from experience with my Boxster. I put on Eibachs (not cheap springs) on it. It was extermely harsh. H&R's are said to be MORE harsh. Again, sold it before I did something about it, but my fiance wouldn't ride in the car because it was too harsh. So I want to give my 996 a better look, but don't want that harsh ride. Talked to lots of people. I thought the ROW M030 would do it, but that would be a lot more harsh than the stock 996 setup. OK...just springs and EVERYONE I talked to said don't do that. Again, more harsh that stock. AND you cannot adjust the height to where you want it. I thought my Boxster was too low in the front. So that left 2 options, spring and shock combo. Which may cost $1200-1500 for that combo. Pros....Look, decent ride, handling, performance. Cons, cannot adjust the ride height. It is what it is. Cannot adjust ride quality. Coliover setup $1800-2400. Pros. Look, performance, ride quality, handling, height adjustable to taste. Ride adjustable to taste. Cons, cost. So, since I bought a performance car that I drive 3-5 days a week, I wanted to have a decent ride. Since I paid a premium for the car, an extra $300-400 would not kill me for the ability to have the car the way I want it. So to me it's a no brainer. Yes you can do just springs, but that would cost you more in the long run. Why? Hows this....You lower it with springs. This causes premature wearing of your shocks. So you get new shocks, pay the install price twice (once for the springs, once for the shocks) and this wil pay the extra cost of the coilover setup. So unless you do it all at once, it will cost you morein the long run. Now, you can use this advice and knowledge that I have gotten from YEARS of research and experience on P Cars and others, or you can ignore. I got the PSS9 system and will install it next week. All sources say my ride quality will IMPROVE with that setup. No one is saying that with just springs...they are probably saying, "It's not too bad...."

Bilstein makes the HD and the sport shocks. They are priced almost the same, wtih the sport being a little more. Any idea which one would be preferable to use with the cargraphic springs? The springs are rated for a 30mm drop. I'm trying to stay as close to the stock ride as possible.

isn't there a spring that is designed to match the HD shock perfectly? Come as a set? Springs are just springs and I wouldn't care about the brand too much as long as they are a matched set and lower the proper amount.

What about B&G coilovers? I stumbled over these while looking for prices on Bilstein. Are they any good? I had never heard of them before and no one else here has mentioned them. They are priced around the same as what I would spend on springs and shocks. I assume you get what you pay for, so there has to be some horrible downside to them at this price. here's the link: http://www.performancecenter.com/pro...4bfe57349d6071

I once put just H&R springs on a car because I was told the springs were designed for the stock shocks. The car was so underdamped it bounced all over the place so within a week I was back for matching shocks. Note that his was a nearly new car so the stock shocks were new. Anyway, just because a spring manufacturer tells you the springs are designed for stock dampers, don't believe it; even if it is H&R. Regarding the PSS9, espeically to you Eric, fellow 40th owner, can you really adjust it so it is a softer ride than stock? What does that mean about the spring rates of the PSS9 compared to stock? Are they softer or firmer than stock sport springs?

Seems like I read that Bielstein HD and sport shocks had similar valving, but one was shorter for a lower ride height. Bielstein tech can probably tell you. I think the various shocks available have different spring mounting heights. When you mix parts you may not end up with the ride height you expected. You dont have to worry about these issues when you use the (overpriced) factory parts such as ROW 030.

Might as well throw my $0.02 into this. I am by no stretch an expert when it comes to suspension setups, but I know a bad setup when you ride in a car that is totally wrong. DeputyDog, I too went through this process not long ago. I asked my dealer what would be the best way to lower the car by 20-30mm. Their reply to me was throw a set of eibacs on and you will be right. I then mentioned to them that my A6 was lowered by doing exactly that and the car bottoms out and the ride is now extremely harsh after this change. Their comment to me was, that is right the stock shocks are made for a particular spring height/length and by changing the spring only the characteristics of the ride will change. At this point in time I said to them, I have spent US$160K for this car I dont want to do it half arsed what do you think of the PSS9 setup. They couldnt stop raving about the setup. They told me that, as I am not sure how low I want to go and how stiff a ride I want, the PSS9 setup will allow me to alter this setting at anytime I like. Unfortunately in Oz mods (and cars for that matter) are not cheap for Porsche. My option was to spend US$700 for eibacs or US$3000 for a full suspension setup which will offer me all and more. At a US$2300 premium I made the decision to go with the PSS9 but I now know why so many people rave about the setup - especially after having a vehicle lowered by just springs. As much as I loved my 996 prior to the change I now love it twice as much mainly because it is an amazing car to drive with the right setup. My A6 is great but I can honestly say that I have been preparing for it to be upgraded with a PSS9 setup. I am sick of the bottoming out when I go over speed humps or exiting drive ways a bit too fast. If you are going to spend $1400 then I would highly recommend of taking it a step further and spend $1800-$2000 for the PSS9s you will have more regrets in the future if you do not do it right first go. Apart from that it will cost more in the future for doing potential work twice. Do it right first time and never regret it Sorry for the long winded response - Also as a side note I too did the change for cosmetic reasons but I wanted to make sure it was also the best way to achieve this cosmetic change

Arthur what settings are you using? Comapre the ride quality to the stock setup....

I just realized that you have the 40th edition. If this car had the USM030 you can buy some ROW M030 springs at AJ USA in San Diego. They have a online site. The ROW spring are the same rate as the US springs. One of the reasons I probably can advocate doing just springs is unlike many of these so called expert enthusiast I can actually R&R the springs and shocks in 2 hours. So labor is not a big deal and I can always make changes if I'm not satisfied. The PSS9 is a great system, but do you really think that you are gonna change the settings that much. Remember if you change the height you need to change alignment settings. I find that unless you're a dedicated track junkie or know how to do home alignment adjustability is for braqgging rights. I doubt you will use the shock setting either. If ride is a concern then the ROW m030 is probably right. If your goal is to have the best suspension I think X74 because you can't go wrong with factory stuff. No matter what anyone says any time you lower a car the ride will be stiffer. What is your tollerance is up to you. I have the M030 and its stiffer, but I thought the standard was too Benz like. Now its perfect to me. The Eibach with stock shocks was about the same, but I found front about 10% harsher. The rear was the same. Good luck with your decission. I suggest to get rides in cars with different suspension, you live in So Cal I'm sure you can find many guys willing to let you ride in their car.

I talked with bilstein US today. Figured they could give me some good advice on this topic. I was actually considering the PSS9 setup after hearing response after response regarding that setup. He said we would not recommend using the PSS's on the cab. He said there is too much chassis flex on the cab and it will probably damage the car since there is no roof structure. He has had cab customers that have flexed their windshields. His cab customers have not been nearly as happy as his coupe customers. He told me the spring rate is three times what stock is. He told me that the ride is good with the PSS, but the severe spring rate will probably eventually cause damage to the cab. he told me that he has them in his M3 and he can't figure out how they ride so good with such a crazy spring rate. He also recommended not purchasing the european carnewal pss's. He said they change several things on them for US customers when they are imported into the US. He went through several technical aspects on things they uprade for their US customers so that they will fit properly and operate as they should (diff springs, etc). He recommended either trying just springs with stock shocks and see how it feels, or a spring shock combo. He didn't recommend a specific spring, but he did say their sport shocks work pretty well with lowered springs. He did that the spring rate should match the shock or you could even bottom out the sport shocks. Damn, back to the drawing board. And to think I was just about ready to plunk down for the PSS after listening to all the rave reviews. Peer pressure is strong in here Still don't think I would have needed it, but at least it would have been the right tool for the right job. Oh well. Not sure what I'll do now. Didn't even think about the chassis flex issues. Not sure if this applies to all coilovers or just the PSS. The bilstein guys said it's his job so sell this stuff, but he wouldn't feel right recommending the PSS on a cab. The bilstein rep didn't know if this was going to be an issue with all stiffer lowering setups, or if it was just an issue with the PSS.

That's really strange because I called Bilstein US when I was tossing up which way to go and they recommened the PSS9 setup because I could make the car as soft as the stock setup and would have no issues at all. Personally I think it comes down to the settings you choose on the system. I have heard of people installing this kit on cabs and running it near the hardest setting without any problems. I personally run it with a 3/4 config and find it not to be an issue at all. The car makes no extra noise or squeeks that it never made before. If anything I think it is quieter now. Tough call when you get so much conflicting advice I know I had that too especially when Bilstein US told me that their kit was different from the Euro kit. But it wasnt from an installation point of view more to do with warranty. Lifetime from US not from Euro.

You probably talked to the receptionist.- Do you really think that the PSS-9 kit that is sold in Europe is inferior to the US kit ? I don't think so.

Pete, I drove my car with its stock suspension approximately 5k miles and participated in 2 DE's and 1 autocross before deciding to change over to PSS9's. I spoke to as many local 996 owners and to the owner of a very well respected local Porsche only shop before making my decision. I misspoke when I said the ride is softer. The ride is more comfortable and firmer. Bumps are more muted and better absorbed but still felt. The PSS9's give it a more solid feeling. I had the car's allignment and suspension set up to optimize track and day to day handling. It's definately a compromise but I very happy with the results. We just finished a weekend at Laguna Seca and I had a blast. I've got 7100 miles on the original Rosso's and the front and rears are wearing at similar rates. They will be down to the wear markers at the end of this month. I can't comment on cabriolets and the issues they may have with lowered suspensions. There are quite a few people on this forum who have lowered their cabs with various systems so it should not be a problem getting their comments.

I'm not gonna get another argument going here, but yes the euro pss's are different.... look at some of the previous threads on the pss kits and the initial problems with them... This wasn't some joker i met on the street giving his opinion. This was the rep for Bilstein. I would have thought this thread would have a little more credibility since I posted where I got the info from. And no, I didn't talk to the receptionist. I talked to Scott in the tech department at US Bilstein East. I would be happy to provide his phone number if you think he is making this stuff up. You can talk to him personally if you think I'm full of ****. Why do you guys have to be such smart asses on this forum sometimes? He went into great detail about the differences in the ones Gert sells and the ones sold in the US. They are changed over to US specs. Again...I'm no porsche suspension expert, but he did mention changing the spings and perches and some other stuff I can't remember. He said something about clearance issues in the front, etc. That probably explains why the prices are so much more in the states for the same, sort of, kit. As a matter of fact, here's his phone number. He is familiar with Gert and Carnewal. We got onto the discussion of the differences between the euro's and the US versions when I mentioned that Gert had them priced at around $1900. Call him if you think I'm lying. EAST: [phone removed]

Apex: I think the cab issue relates more the PSS's that other systems. Bilstein said that their spring rates are much much higher than what most other systems are using. He could not comment if other systems were safer for the cab. Brandywine echoed the same comments about chassis flex and the cabs.

Personally, I don't care where you buy your suspension parts from. But, do you really believe everything you hear? Even Porsche misinforms us every once in a while. At least, they don't do it intentionally. That is the biggest hogwash I've ever heard about clearance issues. Why would there be a clearance issue on a US car when a PSS-9 purchased from the ROW is installed? The cars are identical when it comes to chassis and suspension parts. Look, the only reason Bilstein in the US is feeding you this B.S. is because some of their dealers complained about outside sources underselling the same products. Plain and simple. Now, go ahead and buy from whomever you wish.

check out this portion of the thread. 20c4s is a trusted california porsche tuner. i don't know what the difference is between the euro and us cars. maybe it's left vs right hand drives. who knows? go easy. i'm just the messenger. if you think it's such BS and you're so sure of yourself, why don't you call him and tell him he's full of **** https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...y&pagenumber=8

I would get the US spec PSS9s for the lifetime warranty alone, seems like a no-brainer to me , unless I'm missing something.

Man, this thread is making it very hard to decide between PSS9 or just going with ROW springs (which is what I did on my Boxster S and loved the setup). ARGH...

Tresspassing on the board and read thru this thread.....had to chime in, albeit briefly. DeputyDog........not sure if a factory product has value to you, but if so, do yourself a favor and get the RoW M030 and keep your stock shocks. You'll get the drop you're looking for and if you need to swap out the shocks due to premature wear (commonplace with the 993s) you can always do so later. A complete R&R, IMO, is the better way to go (RoW/Bilstein HD) but if you're trying to save a couple of bucks and are more concerned with aesthetics......you'll get what you need. I agree with you...the PSS setup is truly $$$$ overkill for Florida roads. Especially with NO track time. Not sure where you are in FL...but bank the savings and go have a blast on 5th Ave in Naples for a weekend !!!!

wow, this thread really has gotten.... interesting... so there's a lot of people on here that recommend NOT changing just the springs, but you're all talking from experience with other cars and/or springs. well, i seem to be the only person here that has put H&R springs on a 996 WITHOUT changing the shocks. so i can give a VERY educated opinion on this for a C4. a C2 and turbo use different springs and shocks so i can't comment on those, but i bet a C2 will handle similarly with just the H&R springs. so anybody that replies remember that i'm talking ONLY about a 996 C4, and supposing that similar results can be had in a C2. so, my verdict is: THERE'S VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE!!! whatever anybody says, i've experienced this setup for thousands and thousands of miles of VERY spirited driving. i'm a young guy and i drive my porsche HARD. VERY hard. the positives: less body roll lower ride height looks better the negatives: lower ride height is easier to hit your nose on parking lot entrances etc. the little wind deflectors in front of the front tires occassionally scrape the pavement on BIG bumps now, as for the increased risk of bottoming: i have NOT been able to confirm this. i live in boston, which has some of the worst roads you'll ever see, and i can't say that i've EVER hit my bump stops on a big bump. as for a bouncy feel: there MAY be a slightly bouncier feel given to the car. however, i'm not really sure, i may just be inserting this feeling since everybody says the car should feel bouncier. others that have ridden with me (and driven the car) before and after the change said it feels just like stock. they can't really tell the difference. as for it being stiffer, see above. it isn't any stiffer than stock. now, as for the shocks: i called bilstein when i was making the change and the sport shocks are the ones meant for shorter springs. However, these shocks have the same valve rate as stock so you end up with a stock-feeling ride on a lowered car. the reason people go with the HD shocks is that they provide the stiffer-feeling ride that people who swap the springs are usually looking for. the HD shocks are in fact meant for stock springs. any questions?

After reading all of this I'd say if your a track junkie who likes to tinker then go with the PSS9... ROW M030 seems like an install and forget feature which is very attractive cause if the suspension doesn't go in right your gonna feel something is wrong when driving beyond 7/10th's and then something can go very wrong!! -> these are the times you need your suspension to work as it was engineered to work. ROW seems like a no brainer... doesn't provide as much drop as the X74 but still makes the car look better than stock.. is there an X74 kit for pre 2002 carrera's? Pete

Anyone try KW coilovers?

Wow, I disappear for 10 days on a business trip to find quite a few responses. Thanks for all the input. I just got back from my first drive in my 40th Ann 911...and as you can imagine, I can't wait to hammer her. I will most likely go with the RoW option as I very pleased with this upgrade on my 030 Box S. Slightly lower, better compliance without loss of grip, and cheap! Thanks again. Elton

I concluded the same thing for my 40th; I also was very happy with it on my former Boxster S for both street and serious track; it is a good compromise, yet a better one that the US sport suspension). My ROW030 is on its way