Dreaded RMS

Received the news during a DE inspection, that I have an early RMS leak. Came as a total surprise not even a drop where the car is garaged. My mechanic, PCA authorized, recommended they replace it with a 997 seal. I recall reading a post that mentioned the Cayenne seal was also a better fix. Any thoughts/feedback?

Rather than replace, why not try an additive to swell the seals again? Stops most seal leaks. Mobil oil is brutal on seal material.

Unless it's under warranty, why rush to fix it? It's not a mission critical leak - why spend the $$$ unless of course someone else is picking up the bill.

Is there a diagram or a photo of the 996 engine that shows where this RMS is in relation to the whole engine??

Looking at the 'back' of the engine - trans is off Drive shafts left and right - RMS center, IMS lower

As of now it IS under warranty. As of now it's not even dripping. Just want it fixed before warranty is up. How long does it go before it becomes "critical"?

Likely it will never do anything other than drip oil on the floor. People run with RMS for tens of thousands of miles - use an oil pan in the garage for drips, and check the oil level and top-up as required. That's all it needs. Urban legend says that RMS 'could' in theory, get to your clutch eventually. Seems to be rare to extremely rare based on reports here.

rms will never get on your clutch, unless the spring breaks (i ve seen it once) If your under warrenty have it fixed before your out, rms leaks will not casue your engine to blow up, or fail or do anyhitng but leave a small stain in your garage adding stop leak to you oil is not a good idea, and it will not fix 99% of the leaks on a water coooled porsche, for sure it will not fix camcover leaks, head gaskets, rms, case bolt leaks the cayenne seal will not fit in a 997/996 case its not going to happen, its about 1/2 inh to big the 997 seal is a cayenne style seal and has all but elminated rear main leaks make sure they also do the case bolts and the ims seal per the bulletion

Stop leak will stop the majority of RMS leaks short of a ripped or otherwise damaged seal. In addition, it helps rejuvinate all other seals that your oil comes in contact with. This is especially true for engines that are not driven alot. Running a quart of dino oil in your crankcase will also help your seals to remain flexable. Obviously, if the warranty will cover the replacement free, then, it's a no brainer on what to do. However, I have to laugh when I read that people are spending big bucks out of their own pocket to replace an expensive seal because it leaks a few drops now and then. For those people, they will probably find that an additive or just simply using a different oil will stop the leak for good. Many young techs only know how to replace parts and their knowledge of mechanics is nothing more that what the manual says and are unaware of many long standing remedies for problems. Seal conditioners have been used for 50 years and do no harm to the engine and work well, for the most part. At minimum, an investment of $5 to see if it corrects the problems would make sense.

seal conditioner isnt going to help a rear main seal on a porsche with a old style seal, as the spring tenson relaxs on the seal and or the seal wears o nthe crank becasue of the spring tension, the seal leaks

So that tiny little thing is the source of such misery in 996 world? Damn! I thought it was the size of a softball for some reason.

i have a question.... what if i don't see any leaks at all... but i keep putting in oil on my car.... around 1/2 quart for the pass 1K miles so far..... but if it's not leaking, where is it going?

You should get out of the shop more often. It has worked on many 996 seals. A weak spring is only one of the causes of a leaking seal.

It is about the size of a softball. The RMS is in the center if the pic in post #5. It is the cleanest looking part in the pic, almost bronze in color.

EXACTLY!!! My car has ZERO drips...but since I have had the car...October...with 22K and now it has 26K I have put one quart in..and last night after a fill up my little oil diagram shows it is on the last little square in the box. So its time to put another quart. Regarding using an "additive" or some other oil to help the leak...can someone give me the exact brand name? I was planning on heading to my local Autozone for some Mobile 1 but if its going to help I will buy the additive instead. Is it called STOPLEAK as a proper name? And I simply add it in instead of oil? or a mixture? Please clarify...as I plan on doing this, this weekend. Thanks!

so all we need is the STOPLEAK and Porsche's problem is solved......? i think we need to keep this under wrap and charge Porsche a huge finder's fee for this one.....

A stop leak if for seals, not for losing oil internally, although it does raise your oil's viscosity slightly..

and you sir should get out in the real world and off the computer more often

So is the main seal a metal disc that looks like a mini rotor? Or is it the ring AROUND that brass rotor like thing?

Have a look at http://www.maximumnoise.it/porsche99...al_article.htm It is an older article and doesn't talk about the 997 seal which actually appears to have the ability to keep oil inside the engine, but it does have pictures of the seal and some analysis of the cause of the problem. Its suggestions that improvements in the seal design prior to the 997 version were working were wrong.

If the leaking RMS isn't causing any problems, you can wait until you need your clutch replaced and have it all done at the same time. The RMS warranty will pay for all the labor to take the transmission down and so for the cost of the parts, they can change out your clutch at the same time. Will save you about $1,000 in labor.

forgive my excitement... but this has got to be the best place on earth to learn about my P-car...

^^^^^^^^^ +1000

Lots of advice here to just wait and see on the RMS, but I'll throw out that my RMS went from first drop of oil to complete failure in less than 12 hours and less than 30 miles. 13 days before it failed, I had a PPI done by a Porsche dealership, which identified no problems. My case may be different than yours, as my 2003 911 C2 had 8900 total miles, and was essentially a garage queen until I got it. I have heard many people talk about dried seals (from lack of driving) causing this type of failure, so your mileage may vary. I was not under warranty, got the work done at a certified independent mechanic, and paid around $950 (total bill was $1130 including RMS replacement and addition of a skid plate, which is a $119 part). Not the end of the world, but not what I wanted in the first 2 weeks of ownership!

sotty to hear that irksome........ if it'll make you feel better,..... i'll trade you my 99 cab with 60K on it and i'll pay you the $1130....... mine is definetely not a garage queen.... i drive it everyday......

Your car is BURNING oil, not leaking it. That means your piston rings aren't sealed properly and oil is getting by and buring off. Nothing you can add is gonna fix that. It means that you are getting slightly less compression (and power), and your engine internals probably are getting filthy. This is all a direct result of not breaking in the car properly when it was new.

Oil leaks drive me nuts. My bimmer is bone dry. This post below about a shot engine scares the dickens out of me! Does this mean that I need to have a compression check done on prospective 996 purchases?

come on now there is where the chicken little effect comes into play. the sky is falling......................... some cars use oil, unfortanlty a by product of a flat engine they do use some oil. .5 qt every 1000 miles is well under what porsche considers excessive. it does not mean the rings arent seated or that it had anything to do with break in. (it also has nothing to do with mobil one either before that one gets started again)

Whew. I feel better now! FWIW my old FD Rx7's 13B REW rotary burned 1 US QT of oil per thousand miles. Apparently the rotary engine burns oil by design.

So, just where does the oil go? If it is a result of the flat six, why do most flat 6 engine's NOT burn any oil? Using a measurable about of oil in any engine is not normal, and if it not leaking or a pcv problem, it is a result of improper fitting of componants. Burning of oil in a emission compliant car always reduces the engine's potential power because it is mixing with the fuel and if you are losing it past the rings, you do not have the maximum compression that the engine is designed to produce. But, marketing efforts by Porsche have been very successful with some. And, actually, it DOES have something to do with Mobil 1. It is very well documented for years that Mobil 1 increases the oil burned in a car that tends to burn oil compared to dino oil. Mobil 1 obtained that accurate reputation when it first came out and continues to live up to it.

Can I bring out the now?

im going to step back on this one becasue i have no need to hear you spout what youve read or heard. untill you can point out what makes you a qualified expert , a copy of a fluid engieering degree ect.is I have no reason to listen to someone who became an expert by reading the intenet and changing his own oil and his own experiences with ONE porsche with a m96 motor

hey guys..... i think some here whose been here for a while has a tremendous amount of knowledge to impart.... however, let's not get into another heated debate on oil....... there's a lot of threads out there that dedicates to this very topic......

This Mobil 1 worse-than-water thing is getting very tiresome.... Blake.....do you have a recommendation for another brand of popcorn? I'm getting tired of mine.

you should try mine....... it's carmel......... got plenty to share as you can see,,,,,,,,,

I dont think Brad should EVER have to defend his knowledge, we are lucky to have a Porsche tech on board who is trained on our cars and gives invaluable information. Brad I hope you never get frustrated or fed up and leave the 996 forum for disagreements as you have saved me money personally and not to mention anxiety.

Every engine ever produced by Porsche has come with an oil consumption specification so I don't understand how you got the idea that "most flat-6 engine's" don't burn oil. With the 356 up until 1955 it was 1qt/600miles. With the 911 starting in 1963 the limit was 1.5-2.0ltr/1000km. Past the intake valve stem seals, past the exhaust valve guides, past the rings, etc. With the exhaust running into a catalytic converter your rate of oil consumption will have to get a lot worse before you'll notice anything coming out of the tailpape. ditto

OK now I am totally confused.....=(

Your Porsche is consumning oil at ~1q/6666km, the oil consumption specification for the 996 is 1.05q/1000km. So you have nothing to worry about.

Brad, Thanks for the answer to the "original" question. This thread seems to have taken a directional change; and since it has come up, what exactly is the "best" oil for our 996. Also is their a different recommendation for a C4?

OH NO, you didn't really ask that question, did you? Blake, more carmel popcorn please! I'll supply the drinks!

If Im not seeing signs of an RMS problem, would it be benefical to add stopleak anyway and maybe nip a problem in the bud? Also How accurate is the oil gauge on the dash?? Im not sure I fully trust it

If you run full synthetic oil, adding a pint of seal conditioner with each oil change is a good idea. Some synthetics do a terrible job of keeping seals plyable, especially the Mobil 0W40. I never store a car for extended peiods with synthetic in the engine.

Its my daily driver and I am running Mobil 1

Driving it daily to full operating temperature greatly reduces the chance of developing seal leaks.

Yippee - Finally my crappy commute has reason!!!

should do what I did... put more butter on the popcorn.. it helps

Do not use synthetic butter. It will make you leak.

mine needs a quart every 2k...

I'm wearing a diaper

You guys are funny.... I am just going to put a quart in and be good until my 30K. I am at 26.5K now and when I do my 30K I am going the change the clutch anyway. I got a great deal on an EVO Stage 2 clutch and light weight flywheel. So I am going to install that...and do the RMS while we are in there. Good to know my oil consumption is within spec...

instead of a diaper, use a cork....... diapers are so obvious.......

Thanks for your kind suggestion.

With so many 996 RMSes leaking, it seems this might be a Porsche design flaw?

Oh no! Time for more ! I think I'll try some with a little fresh-grated parmesan this time.

Sorry. I don't mean to instigate an argument. It's a naive question from a potential buyer; I don't want to get in over my head with expensive repairs. Thanks!

It is a flaw HERSEY I"LL TELL YOU IMO: the new seals seem for the most part to be a better fix, not perfect but much better. $700-$900 to fix it and it's always a good time to put in a new clutch. If you get it done at the dealer you get 2 year warrarty after the fix Cost not that bad comparied to some other problems

C'mon...seriously? How's such a design flaw possible from Porsche?

I see you are a BMW owner I used to have a E39 540i. Same with the KNOWN BMW radiator failure with E39 5 series. Especially the V8 motors. BMW knows about but doesnt care..it is taken care under warranty if you are lucky...and it doesnt happen until around 50K. So why make a media scare about it. Exact same thing here....when I was researching Pcars...I was afraid to...but luckily the seller is a good friend and he had it taken care of under warranty...even then it is not 100%. Soooo....basically price of ownership...pay to play. You want a P car? You have to deal with a possible RMS issue...will it happen to you? Maybe...maybe not...then how severe is it? Some people have RMS for 10K miles and its fine...some people have a huge puddle under the car in the AM and the car is shot. Sooo...YMMV.

thats a intermedate shaft failure not a rear main rear main seal will only leave some spots on the floor

Brad why does this rear main seal leak. Is it just the way the engine just hangs over the rear axle with no subframe support?

im not an enginer, i cant tell you why, i could give my opinion but thats all it would be.