LN engineering single to dual row IMS

So I will be upgrading my IMSB this month along with my clutch. I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on the single to dual row conversion that LN has come out with? Anyone running it? Any failures?

I don't know anyone running it, and I do not believe it has been in circulation long enough for any failures to crop up (not that we'd hear about them anyway). If I had a single-row IMS, I would absolutely have selected this bearing. Increasing the load-bearing surface by adding the second row makes great sense mechanically.

My thoughts exactly. I was just nervous because of it being reletively new. I am planning on keeping my car for a long time and the solution is simply out of my price range at this time

Plus, "The Solution" is fairly new as well so not a lot of data there as to whether or not it really is the SOLUTION

I have "The Solution" in my '02 C4.....hoping it turns out that way.

I heard from a local indy that has done a few "direct oil feeds" that have failed due oil starvation. No word as to whether it was LN's or not. I would assume the feed line diameter would be the culprit?

I have "The IMS Retrofit" with only a few hundred miles on it in my 2001 C2. Had it done a month ago. Only time will tell on stats. It replaced my old bearing at 115K - which was alsolutely fine ... so if this last as long I will be happy.

The original is the only one with a significant amount of data. The rest is speculation. LN does have a good track record though. I would check what the service interval time is. Briefly looked at the website and could not find this. I know the double row for the early 996's has a longer service interval than the single. If it has a longer service interval then it may be worth the extra $150, unless it costs more to install.

The only added cost is the $750 tool. But if I end up buying the tool I will rent it out to anyone else who does it so I may make it back up over time.

The Tool for this is the clincher, an extra $750.00, I already have the tool for the other style of bearing Kit from when I did my Sons Boxster so I think I will try to find the best solution I can to work with the Tool I have. I do agree though that the dual row bearing would be the best bet here for replacing the single row set up on the 996's

I am interested in the comment on the Direct Oil Feed failures as I am in the process of installing the Tuners Motor Sports/Pedro's Garage unit now. If there have been failures of. An oil feed IMSB systems it would seem that they must have been the. LN Solution system. This is a plain bearing that depends on a pressure feed of oil to work like any plain bearing. The Tuners DOF uses a ball bearing, either the OEM steel type or a replacement ceramic hybrid with the outer seal removed. In this configuration the bearing gets both the splash lubrication and the DOF so a failure of the oil feed would not necessarily mean a bearing failure. Also I would think if there had been failures of the LN Solution, or for that matter the Tuners version we would see it on one of the Porsche blogs.

There have been zero IMS Solution failures. Plenty of units are in circulation and though many of you may believe the IMS Solution is a new product, it certainly isn't. Please do not confuse the IMS Solution with another technology that employs an oil line to spray uncontrolled volumes of oil onto a ball bearing. The IMS Solution utilizes a plain bearing. There have also not been any failures with the Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit that fits a dual row bearing into an unaltered single row shaft. I am at the top of the food chain for both these products and if any had failed I'd know about it. NONE have failed. Both the Single Row Pro and the IMS Solution are not easy to attain for the DIY crowd and this has been done purposely. These are the reasons why fewer reports have existed on forums that are grossly populated by those who are the DIY type. We can't make enough of either technology to fill the demands of our distributors and Certified Installers. A typical order to any distributor is 100 units and that sometimes doesn't last them a month. Plenty are in circulation all over the world. These are truly developed components that are generally installed by professionals with specific training. Development and training has proven to be the key to avoiding failures. The biggest key is for the technology not to be applied to an engine that has another mode of failure underway, or hasn't been "patched up" from an in process IMSB failure. I originally invented and developed the IMS Solution only to be fitted to my engines. Today it's being installed globally and we just shipped one 996 back home to Seattle that was shipped over 3k miles to have the technology fitted under the same roof where it was invented and developed. We have another inbound from Anchorage Alaska, if the weather would cooperate. That said, in many ways I wish that I would have kept it for my own engines and not allowed it to be circulated... Then we'd not have to engage in these conversations.

It did seem strange that there might have been a failure of the LN Solution that. Was not publicized. Word of such a failure would travel pretty fast. But Jake, is it not true that if the oil feed to any plain bearing fails the bearing itself would fail quickly?

Anything that would cause a loss of oil pressure to the plain bearing would either destroy the underside of the engine at the same time, or would create damage that would take out every other plain bearing within the engine simultaneously. That's just another statement that's leveraged by the opposition. When I review those statements on their forums, I laugh. There's an IMS solution installed into a Rally 996 C4S in Ireland, the car has launched 10' off the ground with the system employed- no issues. With hundreds in service already that are seeing road hazards everyday, if there was a concern you'd already know it. In testing I purposely shut off variable amounts of oil volume and limited pressure to the point of failure. I know exactly how much pressure is required to operate safely, as well as fail and at different rpm ranges, too along with different loads. I spent 4,400.00 in less than one minute when proving this and gathering the data. There's a reason why it took so many years to bring the IMS Solution to market.

Thank you for clearing all of that up. As I said I was not sure who's setup it was that had failed. I didn't get into too much conversation about direct oil feed or The Solution as I am more interested in doing a retrofit. I am stoked to hear there have been no problems with the IMS pro dual row converaion, that is probably going to be the direction I go.

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I'd rent it from you. I plan on DIY'ing the IMS on my '04 later this year and had considered the LNE dual bearing retrofit but rejected the idea due to the cost of the tool. Having the option to rent it makes it more feasible. It would be awesome if you would document the bearing replacement in order to have an opinion on the complexities of the job from a DIY'er.

There is a steep learning curve with the Faultless tool.. Once an installer has one job under their belt it's simple. One installer has already completed 13 Single Row Pro Retrofits using the Faultless tool. I expect a DIY installer to have problems with the proficient use of the tool. That's why we train installers who are professionals. It's also the reason why we don't market the products to the DIY following. Don't complain when it's a tougher job than you imagined, you have been warned! Advance at your own risk.

I'm not planning to do it myself, mostly because of a lack of experience. A freind of mine with 20+ years of porsche experience is going to do it. If it is really that difficult, maybe it would be better to go with the classic LN bearing and just replace it in 40-50k miles.

All his experience won't help, it may actually hurt things.. We see this all the time. It's a procedural installation that requires situational awareness and extreme attention being paid to the fitment of the tool. The classic retrofit is easier, but the Single Row Pro adds 90% more load carrying capacity. There is no free lunch, you have to work for it.

Oh geez...

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Quotes like this make me never want to do business with you. Nothing like assumptions and a heavy dose of smugness. Ken

It's not assumption, it's statistics. We have to train installers specifically to work with these components and our experience has proven this. Primarily we must instruct installers in regard to pre qualifications of engines to be retrofitted, as these components must not be used to repair a failing engine or an engine that is experiencing an in process IMS bearing failure. People have to know what to look for, and they don't unless we share with them what we've learned from our experiences. You may ask why we don't share al this online? We would if there were not those who have joined the band wagon that we created and would use the information to further their own programs at our expense. These people already have robbed my process and use the extraction tool that I developed, so I refuse to train their installers, too. Instead I spend weeks of my life instructing technicians in private courses and now we are even training the sales staff of our distributors so that can assist technicians and shop owners in choosing the best IMS Retrofit technology for their application. Each year as my instructor roles for Worldpac Training institute take me all across North America, I interface with 600 Porsche Technicians. These people vary from the 40 year experienced veteran to the kid who just dropped out of Wyotech and even include current and past Porsche dealership technicians. I spend between 16 -96 hours of my life with these groups of people and try to share with them the weapons they need to wage war with these engines and their unique issues and symptoms. The shortest training session that we offer is 16 hours and even then we have to jam the info in to cover it all. It's a fact that the more previous Porsche experience the technicians have, the less they understand even the basics of the M96. In my classes the best technicians that have the best answers are time and again the guys who have cross trained from Asian vehicles. I even have a session in the class called "Old dog, new trick" and I specifically address the seasoned veterans during this period and point blankly tell them that all their experience won't help them with the M96. It's entertaining to watch a 30 year old Subaru technician absolute school the seasoned Porsche veteran thats been working on 911s as long as the 30 year old has been alive while in my classes. This is especially true in my hands on 4 day class where a group assembles an M96 engine from scratch, and its all real as the engine will run as a developmental power plant. In that class I have actually had a prior dealer tech that was "Gold" level walk out after he was schooled by a kid who was souping up Subaru engines in his basement and decided to see what the M96 was like so he could by broken cars, fix and sell them. I know these things, because all my previous aircooled Porsche experience is what has led to EVERY M96 mistake that I have ever made. Trust me, I have made lots if mistakes and this engine schooled my *** for 2-3 years before I finally learned that I couldn't treat it like something it wasn't. During that period I was only developing my program and components, and luckily wasn't offering anything to purchasers. The DFI engines are even tougher and consume the veterans even harder. I just finished putting together material for my Worldpac Expo DFI engine class and the main focus of that class is to prepare the technicians for the change they'll experience when cross training from the M96 or other Porsche models over to the DFI engine that we've already been developing for 4 years now. Over and over the support calls that we have to deal with come from a certain group, and yes, we do log each and every one of them. This is done just in case a component fails after install as we'll know that person or shop had a difficulty. No, it's not rocket science. It's also not something that can be done via keyboard interface, and today there are too many technicians, and not enough mechanics. One of our better DIY installers works on restoring old John Deere tractors. He used the faultless tool the first time with perfect results and bragged about it like crazy. As far as not doing business with me due to my firm statements, that are not sugar coated, well that's your perrogative. Others do share it, but that doesn't stop me from telling it like it is. People either love me because they think like me, or they hate me for being blunt, abrasive and determined. Neither group will ever change me. The first thing you have to realize if if you do a retrofit you won't do business with me as I am the developer and have zero to do with sales. By the time a product hits the market I have received my last dollar from it. I care nothing about selling parts, anyone can do that. You won't deal with me unless we carry out the Retrofit install here, or unless you buy a turn key engine, which will be fitted with all my developments. Hope this clarifies a few things. I only care about accurate information, and not about the manner in which it is presented. That said, to sit through one of my classes is as entertaining as it is informative :-)

wow

Most real gearheads worked on many different cars over the years. Looks we are the perfect candidates to work on these engines. Jake, your writing style is too high level. It makes people feel like they are inferriornwhen reading it. Writing at a lower level is more effective when it comes to getting the message across and to capture the audiance. I read and write technical reports every week and the simpler a report is written the better it actually is. Using words like " I interface with..." when a simple "I deal with..." does a better job of getting the reader to easily understand what the message is. Also, using high level technical words/terms will disconnect you from the reader. It comes across as an person that thinks he is better and smarter than anyone else. Even if you are, reminding the reader will do no good.

+1. Like a good trial lawyer to a jury or effective teacher conveying subjects in a class room. The simpler you can breakdown a complex topic, the better you will be capturing your audience.

I consider Porsche owners to be intellectuals. You guys are right. Not too bad for a guy that was in Special Ed i Since 3rd grade, huh? :-) Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I realize that even though we do everything we can to keep these components from getting into DIY circulation (at the cost of huge sales volumes) that this is still happening. It's a fine line that must be walked concerning how to support these efforts. As the developer I am happy that those decisions are made by others, after my part is completed. In times past I offered paid consulting, which didn't work either because it just pissed people off when they were told that it cost them money for answers- when one person whined about that online I cut it out completely. If it would ever be possible to train an individual to now what we know about the dynamics if these installs they could sell to and support a DIY market. That person doesn't seem to exist.

Really exhausted from the pissing contest between individuals who claim that their solution is THE solution. Ceramic bearing, 2-row, cylindrical, direct oil feed, plain bearing plus oil feed...everyone claiming the other guy's product is crap. Sheesh! I paid $1700 (plus a clutch kit) to have the LN single row bearing put in mine 20K miles ago and I'm betting it goes the life of the engine. My OEM bearing probably would have been in the 92% that don't fail. It came out at 30K miles with seal intact, full of grease, and no oil in the IMS tube. I'll be damned if I'm going to spend another nickel on the IMS or lose a minute of worry on it. I've got an extended warranty for 3 more years if the engine blows. I'm so done obsessing over this thing.

Please post pics of the grease filled OEM is IMSB. I have only seen one engine that has had any grease left in the factory bearing and the engine had 4k miles on it. We have completed over 400 IMSR procedures here and one out of 400 had grease.

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Wow, you post some serious BS on here but this one ranks right up there at the top. Are you seriously stating that in your professional experience(as the self -proclaimed god of the M96)that you have only seen 1 out of 400 factory IM$Bs still containing the factory filled grease??? This is complete BULL $HIT!!! If this were true, the rate of failure(remember, all mechanical things eventually fail) would certainly be much higher. Statements like this are why you have absolutely zero credibility in my book. I, as a mere 996 owning mortal, have seen countless perfectly fine bearings needlessly replaced that still contained the factory grease(yes, the grease was documented as still being contained within the bearing). I have seen it many times and I don't even regularly pay attention to this topic. How is it possible that you have not seen these? Please note, this is a rhetorical question as I already know the answer. For those of you that have not progressed beyond the level of SE(of which I am sure there is no one here, but just in case) the answer is: JR uses this forum as his own private infomercial...BTW, is that really an option when you sign up to be a RL sponsor. If so, JR sure gets his money's worth... It is hard to visit RL's 996 section(BTW, many of the other RL sections are great) without being inundated by JR's hysteria/fear mongering created aftermath. Between the BS statements like the one I quoted above and the ridiculous/unscientific poll that appears at the top of this forum, the 996 forum has become(for many years now) a laughingstock of a place...Congrats RL. BTW, JR, I particularly like your story about the young Japanese brand based mechanics schooling the veteran Pcar mechanics when it comes to the M96 engine. HAHA I don't care who you are, that is some funny stuff...I particularly like the way you state it as an absolute fact, as though there has never been a veteran Pcar mechanic who could comprehend the M96 engine. If your gig as a self-proclaimed Porsche guru doesn't pan out, I think you may have a real future as a fiction writer.

Josey Wales pwns a suit - YouTube

I wondered how long it would take you to show up. Yes, one grease filled bearing is all that we h e seen here, and that is a fact. How many IMSR jobs have you done? Without direct, first hand experience on the topic at hand don't challenge my personal experiences. Would you know what a failing IMS bearing looked like if it fell out of the sky and whacked you in the head? Probably not. Rennlist my own personal infomercial.. That's hilarious! I can't think of a single person who has stated that they sought out our services because of this forum. I have not once ever posted an ad here like other forum supporters do, either. I slowed down posting here over the last few months and life was better when I did that. The only reason I posted in this thread and the only reason that I post on forums at all is to set the record straight. If I did not pay attention and did not post inaccurate information concerning the IMS Solution having experienced a failure would be in this thread. Have a great Sunday.. This thread has spiraled into having no quality technical content even though I tried to get it back on track.

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At the time (3 years ago) I didn't think there was any reason to take pics of it. In fact I didn't even ask the installer (recommended by LN) to show it to me. He only did so to address my concern that there might be swarf in my engine from a failing bearing that could compromise the longevity of the open ceramic replacement. I was not at all upset that the OEM bearing was intact, in fact just the opposite. I was happy I got to changing it out proactively before the eventual breakdown of the seals and washout of the grease. Like you yourself say, the retrofit is a proactive, preventative measure, not a fix for a failed or partially disintegrated bearing. So by your criteria, I had my retrofit done at an ideal time.

I got a lot out of this thread: 1) OEM IMSB's have a .25% probability of retaining their grease 2) Seasoned Porsche mechanics know less about the M96 than young Subaru mechanics 3) Seasoned Porsche mechanics cannot be reliably expected to properly use a "Faultless" tool Very enlightening...I'd hardly call it a waste.

I am due for an oil change.....should I use dino or synthetic

Ben Z, We love to hear that engines are being retrofitted proactively. People get all post when their old bearing is NOt failing and they say that they wasted money and this is all hype. What they don't realize is that if their old bearing began to fail that the rest of the engine has already seen other collateral damage. This is due to the design of the factory oil filter bypass system. The new bearing is also seriously put at risk for future failure and this is why we recommend proactive procedures. The guys that get mad because they "wasted money" are the guys who will get the biggest return on their investment from the retrofit. They don't know what they don't know, and many won't listen or don't understand. Did your shop that carried out the IMSR complete the warranty registration process by sending in the old bearing? If so, then we can find that bearing in the data base, cross reference it to your IMSR serial number and go pull it.

Is JR blunt? Probably. I can't blame him for circling his wagons, the world is full of idiots (or in this case, idiot P car techs). There are plenty of veterans making the transition to M96/97 smoothly, I'm sure. But there is always the lowest common denominator to be dealt with. I don't think he needs to change his narrative to "easy reading" either.

The problem is the tech should have made the "transition" at least a decade ago. They didn't because engines were too cheap, then came the downfall in the economy and prices doubled in two months time. Now they are so far behind by the time that they do decide to learn that it's not worth it to very many to take the risks to learn and apply themselves. I see this because the guys in my classes are very vocal on this subject. Out of 600 people a year I'd probably hire 5 of them, a huge majority are just there because the boss paid for it and they'll get another certification to hang behind their toolbox.. I stopped issuing certificates for my hands on class, because I didn't want that breed to show up, waste my time and their boss' money.

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I'm one... I'm glad you post here online as that's how I heard about you. I have personally learned a lot from your information posted here and benefitted from your original IMS bearing replacement which I installed in my 03 daily driver, and when my 02 track car's engine blows I'll look to you guys for help... hopefully not for a long time, though! Being a specialist is often tough, regardless the business/profession.

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Thanks for the post. That said, you still haven't become our customer from these posts.. Again, I may have developed the retrofit that you have already applied but it's been 7 years since my work on that product was finished. I did that work for LN Engineering. Hopefully you won't ever need us, but if you do bring up this post and I can state that Rennlist finally stimulated my business.:-)

OK, after sitting on the sidelines I thought I would just jump in with my experience with Jake. I have an 02 C2 purchased last year with very low mileage. Well taken care of but the impression I got was that it wasn't driven much so IMSB was of some concern. Indy told me after the first of the year that the RMS was leaking so I began a search comparing all of the options. Decided that any technology that was good enough for the water cooled GT2, GT3 and Twin Turbo with no discussion of failures was probably a pretty good way to go. Decided on The IMS Solution. Also decided that I wanted the individual that invented it to do the work. Prior to my car heading to GA I found a puddle of coolant underneath the car and found that the water pump was going. Prior to having it replaced I sent an email to Jake on a Sunday night asking if this could be backed out of the preventative package. Not only did I receive a quick answer back with yes, I then receive a personal phone call from Jake because he wanted to make certain that the plastic impeller blades were all intact and if they weren't, they had to be found. Impressive customer service and passion for his profession well before I am even a customer. I have had the car back for a little over a month and received a professional package back with pictures and great technical information about the car. I also had a small question last night (Saturday) and sent an email expecting to hear back on Monday. Within 15 minutes I get a response and Jake has been assisting me with my question today (Sunday). This my friends is off the charts customer service. I have always been treated in a courteous and professional manner. Of course I have also treated Jake and his staff the same way. Bottom line is that I chose the person I wanted to have work on my 996 and I couldn't have made a better choice for me. There are many options available and it is a free country.

Jeff, It is a free country... At least for now. Thanks for the kind words and trust with your Porsche. You have been great to work with.

I had my IMS installed by Porsche dealer. I guess I got lucky mine has not blown up yet. I mean Porsche what do those guys really know, probably don't have a certificate from Jake

I had a double-row LN installed by my Indy. We didn't know which bearing I had (1 or 2) until he got into it. I requested a Single to Double row adapter if I had a single. He steered me away from the adapter, saying the singles work fine. (Pretty sure he didn't have a "Faultless" tool, and didn't want to charge me for one...hell, I could rent it out like a pony in a circus and make a few bucks...or put it in the next time capsule that goes to the moon ) Turns out I had the double row anyway. He'd be delighted to know what Jake thinks of him after 20+ years pulling on Porsches...and he knows nothing about Subarus. This whole tool thing is ridiculous.

I was just nervous because of it being reletively new.

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HAHA Well, I�m not a rocket scientist(my friends and family will attest to that) but I certainly can identify an IMS bearing and I am also very confident that I could remove said bearings seal and identify whether or not the factory grease(or motor oil) is still present within the bearing. Get over yourself; you are not performing brain surgery. Any time you would like to provide empirical evidence to substantiate your wild claim(s), I�m sure many of us 996 owners here would love to see it. Not to mention, I�d love for you to supply evidence for your many other wild claims posted here, which I have asked for, that you refuse to provide. The ***** in your court, let�s see some real facts to back up your repeated doomsday claims posted to RL�all of us 996 owners will be here waiting with bated breath�

Why? Just give you more to argue about. BTW Porsche dealers were the very last to adopt the IMSR and yes I have at least one or two dealer techs attend my class at every location. Some mention they are from the dealer, others don't and I still find out. If they come to WTI classes then they do get a Certificate, they can do whatever they want to with it. I have an engine from a Porsche dealer at my shop right now after an IMSR went bad. The bearing is fine, it only ran for about 3 minutes before it shot a piece of debris that was picked up by the IMS drive chain through the block. They sent it to me for repair, it must have had some underlying condition present before the IMSR was carried out, who knows if it was pre- qualified for the job or not. They didn't even call first, the engine just showed up with a hole in the block.

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I won't be, I'll be on a twisty backroad in PA driving my car.

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Blink or wave if you pass me...

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Typical response when questioned ...very informative...thanks!!!

Jake, I have ben on here about 4 years and I am so tired of your FUD tactics and self promotion at the expense of us all and especially those who are new or just looking for information. All I hear now when I read one of your posts is blah, blah, blah. I mean every single one is " every M96 / M97 is going to blow up", "my shop has 996 / 997 lined up from Georgia to Key west with blown engines", "no one on the face of the planet is as qualified as me", enough. Tone down the rhetoric and the self promotion or hire a PR person to respond for you and you will not come across as such an abrasive, know it all! You lost me as a prospective customer a LONG time ago as I am sure you have turned off many others on here.

Jake I'm saving towards sending you a core motor to build into a 4.0. Keep up the good info flowing here. Thanks for the real info you share here and the good actionable knowledge that help clarify a decision when my motor blew. If in the meantime issues arise in my 4S, you will be my first call.

So much for the fact that I am here to advertise and secure new purchasers :-) Lost one and gained one.. The good cancels out the bad :-) A PR person would tell people what they want to hear, which is completey *** backward from whats built this business. To quote the Porsche Post (UK Porsche Club official magazine) in March of 2006: "He's the last of a Renegade Breed". Maybe I should simply post a poll here and ask two questions to determine if the majority of Rennlist following appreciates my input. Many will post in a poll that do not post in threads, because they don't have to deal with flack. Generally I have found that those who support what we do are the lurkers that aren't vocal, because I get PMs thankjing me all the time and the users have less than 10 posts in some instances, yet have been members for 2+ years. The question for the poll would be simple, should I stay or should I go. Let the members spek, make it a bit of a democratic atmosphere and I'll live with the findings.

That sounds like a plan Jake when will we see this POLL go up?

I'll probably do it tonight.

Since you have your own website (which includes its' own forum/blog section) I think you should showcase your brilliance there. You suggest that you generate no business by being here, so this should be seamless. If a guy wants to wade through your photos and videos they can...your website gets traffic and we aren't blasted by fear-mongering. Win-Win

I would be more likely to buy from you if you had a warranty longer than a year. Even for a factory rebuild, that is a very short warranty. Porsche stood behind the original design more than that. Also, there is no reason why tracking should void the warranty. I understand your concern about someone missing a gear and over reving the engine. Okay, then why not allow tracking when the car has a triptronic? You can't over rev the engine with a triptronic. The car won't let you do it. For as much as you trash our cars and brag on your engine, you seem to have little interest in putting your money behind yours. If the engine is as good as you claim, there is no reason why the warranty can't be at least 3 years and 36,000 miles. Hell, old Fiat engines lasted longer than that.

stay

Some of you are going to keep ******* him and he will be gone. Why not read his FREE advice and decide for yourself what to do. I dont think Jake has ever forced anyone to purchase anything (unless his products are part of the AHA).

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+1, great idea

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agreed...best advise

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I had that from 2006 through 2013. There was no benefit to this so I closed it down, even though we had about 9,000 members. It took a lot of my time as I made 20,000 posts there over that period of time. It was generally a place for people to visit and parrot information to other foriums as their own. So I killed it and haven't looked back. Then you'd not be purchasing an engine, you'd be purchasing a piece of paper. Those who realize that the best warranty is the one that you never have to use place the development of our engines above that of what a piece of paper can provide. We don't offer a stock engine built with genuine parts, the last stock engine I built was shipped to Russia and that vehicle could not have any modifications made to it. Because they had to. Also, if you buy a new Porsche crate engine today (hurry up because when the current inventory is gone there won't be anymore) you'll receive a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty. No one will tel you this, but if the engine fails and you make a claim and the engine was not installed by a dealership, then you have no warranty. Those who choose to go to the track have chosen to risk their life and the life of their car and it's engine at the expense of some fun. I refuse to engage in finger pointing exercises, and with a vehicle thats tracked my word would be against theirs with no proof, this is known as a finger pointing exercise. No one wins, and people are only disappointed and pissed off when it occurs. In my direct experience putting a warranty on a track engine INVITES problems as the driver doesn't care about taking care of the engine, because he thinks I'll pay for his problem and it'll be a free lunch for him. Lots of people think this about warrantys and thats why they want them, because they want someone else to be accountable for their own responsibilities. I'd much rather deal with a guy who knows that he is ending his warranty when he goes to the track and is the right breed to be ok with that, than selling an engine to someone who is going to the track with a false sense of security that a piece of paper will keep his engine alive. Going to the track is risky, my most intelligent customers refrain from track time for the one year (unlimited miles) that the warranty is in place. Also, one more point: How many glorious warrantys are worth a damn? Most all of them include absurd conditions to adhere to and things that will void the warranty. There is so much BS that you really don't even have a warranty if you really sit down and read it. With my warranty there are 3 conditions, and only 3 conditions and no excuses. 1- No track service 2- Use only our engine oils that we developed. Hell, we even GIVE this oil to the purchasers while under warranty and the car is returned with a fresh sump fuull of intermediate break in oil when they receive it. We then put another case of oil in the trunk for the 2K mile service as well as a filter and an oil sample boittle thats already filled out with all the data that will be important for that sample. Further, we then give the owner 2 more coupons for more free oil throughout that year. 3-No over revs. We screen capture and time stamp ECUs when the car s being loaded and we photo and video document this. As long as there are no over revs then we are all good. Trust that I put a whole lot more into making the engine good enough to sell with a 1 year warranty than a warranty or a few claims would cost me. Less than 5 times a year I am asked about warranty, most people don't even expect to receive one and they are shocked when they do. I put no value in a warranty, when asked at an electronics store if I wanted an extended warranty for a new TV I bought my respinse was "No, I take chances, if the son of a bitch stops working I'll just take it out back and blow it away with a 12 gauge".. The guy looked shocked :-) That said, we do work with a very good extended warranty company that will extend a discount for a bumper to bumper warranty (including engine) to our customers that have our engines. They extended a 500$ cost reduction to each warranty after we fit an engine to the car, and the best part is that we do all their repair work, so if the engine fails they pay for it and we repair it. Here's something to ponder: Last week I was testing a car that had my 3.6 big bore engine installed. I personally drive each car around 150 miles and pay very close attention to it. On my first test drive I feel the engine losing some throttle response above 5K RPM. I test these cars across a mountain here near the shop and its a 60 mile round trip across it. On long up hills the engine would speed up if I slightly lifted off the throttle. I knew what this symptom was so I looked at the long term fuel trim and noted that the ECU was adding fuel and it was within 1/10 of a value from popping a CEL. I strapped the car on the dyno and carefully watched the fuel adaptation values and lambda, all the while the AFR sensor for the dyno was in the tailpipe backing up my numbers. Once it hit 5,300 RPM the engine would go fuull lean and the fuel trim would wig out. The engine ran fine and made decent power, it had zero symptoms that were notable while driving it, except liking less throttle input. Based on these things we determined thet there was a fuel delivery problem. I consulted with the customer and told him that if his car had a fuel filter we'd think its clogged, but since it was too new to have one the fuel pump was going bad. He authorized the new fuel pump.. We installed it and the AFR numbers flat lined back to perfect, shirt and long term fuel trim values went back to 1 and 1 and the engine picked up power. It would no longer speed up if the throttle was lifted. Had that engine had a warranty that fuel pump would have cost me a claim, when it wasn't the engines fault that it wasn't being fed with the proper ratio of air and fuel. These cars are getting older, every 996 out there is approaching 10 years old now and sub systems don't last forever. Anything can kill an engine that feeds it fuel or ignition. Here's a testimonial from the one and only warranty claim we've ever had to support. While we are on this topic I figured I'd post it. We offered to repair the engine before the owner ever asked us to. I take pride in doing the right thing even when no one is looking, and often times even though I don't have to.

^Very satisfied customer testimony there. It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently. Warren Buffett Seems to me that Jakes shop lives by that advice.

Jake, ignore the noise. You are hearing from the minority, albeit a very vocal minority, who more than likely fall into one of two categories - their car is the perfect performance car and has no problems (see the Corvette forum for a similar example); or they worked on their own and/or buddies engines a few times and feel they are now experts. And the internet is the perfect forum for them to flame anyone who voices a different opinion than their beliefs, with little or no accountability. The internet, for all the good it has done, has spawned this person. Do you want to promote your business? I hope so. Capitalism is still the model last time I checked. And most successful business owners are proud of what they have built. Is that really surprising to everyone on this forum? However the contribution to the discussion is also way too valuable to lose. People can deny the IMS issue all they want, and some on this forum do so every time the topic comes up, but Porsche, the company who invented corporate secrecy and stonewalling (read the GT3 forum), didn't enter into class action settlement because of rumors and hype. They had to. Sorry boys, a failure in maybe 8% of the cars, which grenades the motors at a cost of about $20k is a real problem. Every car may have achilles heals, but very few rise to that level. Porsche made the conscious decision to move away from a race ready engine and build cars to a price point in their water-cooled cars, and they need to own up to it. Porsche is still the legend, but the gap has closed and they need to up their game if they hope to stay there.

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No one claims this car is perfect. We just like our cars. If you don't like them, don't come here. I don't like Nissans but I don't spend my time n the Nissan boards telling them how awful their cars are. Beyond that, the 8% figure is in no way scientific and is at best a SWAG. Did some of these cars have IMS failure? Sure but many more of them didn't and haven't. Why that is the case is anyone's guess. The fact remains even by your SWAG, 92% of the cars were fabulous. Lastly, Porsche have always been quirky high strung cars prone to catastrophic or expensive failure. There isn't a single generation of 911 that doesn't have something wrong with it. How many 993s have valve issues? A lot higher percentage of 993s had valve issues or leaked oil by the quart than 996s had IMS failures. They sold a ton of 996s, many more than any model of 911 ever made to that time. So the number of failures in raw numbers is going to be higher. The "Porsche used to make bullet proof cars that never had any issues until the evil 996" is just a load crapola and any honest air cooled owner will admit that. Again, if you don't like 996s and think they are horrible, don't buy one.

Jack, If you are so sure the cars will never break, then why not offer a longer warranty? And I am sorry but "we have only had to fulfill one warranty claim sounds great until you realize YOUR WARRANTY IS ONLY A YEAR LONG. I would hope you have only had one claim. if you had more than that it would mean your engines couldn't even last a year. And a warranty is more than a piece of paper. it is an expression of how much a company stands behind their product. A warranty is you betting your money nothing bad is going to happen.

Following this post is like watching an episode of Housewives, I just can't wait to see what is going to be posted next. Not that I have ever watched an episode.

My experience at Flat 6 was above and beyond for a preventative service. Jake, no point in getting frustrated with posters. The 8% rate mentioned above was indicated in the docs for the class action lawsuit. Who knows the real number but the legal stuff is available to read so you can come to your own conclusions on the lawyer's website.

I sold just as many engines when I had zero warranty as I sell with a one year warranty... We maintain a minimum of 9 months of backlog on all reconstructions and we did that right through the worst part of the recession. That's with zero advertising in any publication. We can't do the work that we have, I sent away two jobs today. I am taking a break from here. I take what I do too seriously to debate about it. I have to prepare to instruct my classes at the Worldpac Expo in a few days and those people deserve all that I can give them. They are paying for it. See ya when I see ya.

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I can now rest my case.

The Emperor now has no clothes. This isn't about Jakes' work, or even his expertise, or even yet his satisfied customers. It's about carpet-bombing this site with horror stories and pictures of catastrophic failures coupled with what I can only describe as a narcissism about ones' experiences with the engine. You'd think Jake has built a spaceship or something... I'm sure he's a fine shop owner/mechanic/M96 savant...whatever. He has or had a website where he publishes all of his horror stories and triumphant endeavors...I think that's exactly where that stuff belongs. It's fatiguing (and I'm new here) and hurts us all by fertilizing this website with his hi-def horror pictures...It hurts those who may be trying to sell their 996, and frustrates those of us who tire of having our cars verbally trashed continuously. It's obvious that Flat6 benefits from this dynamic, but it's more than that...to be sure. " There was no benefit to this so I closed it down, even though we had about 9,000 members" ...( Jake Raby on his own website) There is something exceedingly passive-aggressive about this whole scenario.

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You case for what? That you don't know much about Porsches? The facts are what they are. If you are unaware of them, go look on Pelican Parts of Total 911 and you will find all kinds of tales of woe about leaking 993s and expensive top end rebuilds. Doesn't mean the 993 isn't a great car. It is. It just means that every Porsche is a Porsche. That is not all bad. It is not all good either.

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Amen. You said it better than I could have.

Well...it's silly. I think I caught a glimpse of Jake walking across the lake as he left (for the night, in a so passive- aggressive way, but he'll be lurking and "back" shortly, because he can't stay away) "I am taking a break from here. I take what I do too seriously to debate about it. I have to prepare to instruct my classes at the Worldpac Expo in a few days and those people deserve all that I can give them. They are paying for it." -(Jake Raby) This is so 11th grade...it's beneath every single one of us who log on here. If you run a good shop, your reputation precedes you.. .and you don't have to frighten people to impress them . Using your logic, I'd dive my airplane towards the ground and pull out at the last minute, so that I save everyone. Absurd.

I agree, this is absurd: you guys are really telling someone who is passionate about a technical aspect of our hobby how to run his own business, telling him how he should communicate with others, and that his spaceship isn't a really spaceship? Why? If you don't like what is posted here or it frightens you or you get offended, then why do you read it and comment on it? If you don't like the warranty offered on his product, why don't you shop elsewhere? Or better yet, if what he's doing is so wrong, why not seize the opportunity you supposedly see, and create a comparable product and offer a longer warranty? I don't understand what comments about seeing someone walking across water have to do with these technical discussions. What's the point of discounting his passion for what he does? I've been a part of this site for a lot of years and don't understand what goes on here.

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I must agree with you, you really don't understand what goes on here. The fact that Jake uses this site to post unsubstantiated 996 fearmongering, all in an effort to advertise his business, is tiresome to some of us 996 owners who visit this site to further the employment of our cars/hobby. Enough is enough. Most of us visit RL simply for entertainment and to discuss the cars we own/enjoy, to be continually bombarded with anecdotal doom and gloom by Jake and his disciples is a real drag. No company does this on any of the other car forums I visit(even though these cars all have serious issues unique to their model) and if they did, they would be run off by the enthusiasts who populate the site. For some reason, many 996 owner's seem to be into S&M and welcome the never ending duplicated/redundant horror stories by Jake. Everyone by now knows of the potential 996 issues(real or not), in fact the 996 has become a redheaded stepchild due to them(in large part due to Jake carpet bombing the internet with BS hysteria, IMHO). To continually have to listen to Jake's BS serves no purpose to us at his point!!! BTW, I love how Jake says he doesn't use this site as an integral part of his ad campaign, yet a few posts later he posts positive customer testimonials along with more fearmongering and chest beating. The irony is almost too far-fetched to believe, although it apparently goes over the heads of many here. HAHA

Just a little more time and the majority of the onwers will be DIYers. When this shift happens, people will have more saying into the matter of these engines. People will figure out a way to keep them going and WILL share all their knowledge how to do it. This is what a true gearhead does that is not bound by running a bussiness. This is what always happens when cars get cheap enough that real DIYers will start buying them. The demographics will shift and the current owners will move to the newer models and so will Jake because that's where the money/future is for his bussiness. He sahes some info here but very little, I and a few others, share everything that we know or learn.

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Oh please don't go before the poll you promised....

It's amazing the level of individual personal jealousy envy and hate directed at Jake. Seems to me many here envy his success and try to tear him down. Why not go out and build your own successful companies instead of attacking a guy done good ? It's wrong to gang up and bully him in an attempt to drive him off. Only cowards do that.

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I call bull****e. I've owned a 944 daily driver that turned into a scca racer, a hot rod 930 and 3 3.2 Carreras, many 100k miles over 15+ years including track days and never ever had a engine failure like I had in my first 996. I like my car, no love my car but your head is in the sand because you are afraid it might blow up.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q661/dtm999DTMiller/yoda_zps0491cbd8.jpg

Seeu911, You got a bad 996 and had better luck with other cars. Your single experience doesn't mean other people haven't had different experiences. Tons of people have had to do top end rebuilds on 993s. Tons of people had timing chains break on the original 911s. It just happens. Sorry you had bad luck with your 996. Your bad luck, however, doesn't mean all of us have bad cars. It just means you drew the short straw. If it did mean more than that, than the people who had issues with their 993 would mean that wasn't a good car and of course it was. It was just a Porsche and Porsches are wonderfully reliable and amazing cars, except for the once in a while when they are not.

Seeu911 file your blown engine under the "**** happens" category. I too have been screwing around with cars since I am 16 and have blown and engine or two. Chevy small blocks, Chevy big blocks does that mean all Chevy engines are bad and susceptible to blowing up? Sorry, yours did but hey **** happens and if my engine blows it will suck and I will be just as pissed. However, I am certainly not going to blame Porsche or the 996. That is why I proactively maintain it to minimize the chance of me having an issue so I can continue to drive and enjoy my car. As for Jake. I don't hate him and I am certainly not jealous of him. My issue's are more with the methods he uses on these boards to disseminate his message of gloom and doom as well as the reliance on quasi scientific and unsubstantiated claims to further his own agenda.

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I agree. I am sure Flatsix makes a fine engine. I don't wish them ill. Hell, if my engine ever goes or I keep my car long enough to want to do a rebuild, I may go there. That said, I don't understand why "I make a great engine" isn't good enough and that message always has to be paired with "you guys' cars are terrible and Porsche should be ashamed for having ever made them".

Ok I get your sentiments. No one wants to hear their kid is ugly or going to die an early death. I want to support the guy, flaws and all, poor bedside manner or not, that can keep my car alive and viable in the used car market. Leave Jake the ****kk alone. For me putting my trust and $$ in Porsche is not just a **** happens choice. It hurt. Not. Happy. I've gotten over it..not really I lied it still hurts...and made the choice of a C4S as a DD of 140 miles per day 17k miles in 6 months. Same fanatical maintenance same redline happy hard driving. My friends and family all say I'm happier with that choice. I do try to not sweat it, but I am saving for a new engine ( why the frickingtastic should I have to do that Porsche ?) or when the kitty gets big enough a 991 which ever comes first.

Or learn how to fix it yourself and 3/4 of your problems are solved. They are really not that much different than any other DOHC engine with variable timing. They look weid because of the layout but under the skin, it isn't that much different.

Been away for a while, wth happened in here? haha, I've been thinking, if the tool is called the "faultless" tool, then why is it apparently rocket surgery to use it? ...discuss

Correct, thats just what they would admit to. The real rate has been projected to be as high as 10% or more. See the forum poll for proof.

Im sure several of us would disagree. I find the pics and stories behind what caused the failures, very interesting. I would think most who have mechanical abilities would feel the same. If you dont want to read about the M96 internals, then you can just bypass that post.

The forum poll is accurate as an analsex poll on Christian Mingle.

I'm baffled. Can someone explain to me why the forum poll is even a first order approximation of the real IMS failure %? The poll shows 44 votes of failures and 407 votes of no failures => 9.7% I believe the real IMS failure % is WAY WAY lower than this number. Just think about how many 996 rennlisters here (worldwide) who didn't vote and also have not experienced IMS failure? (If they did, most likely they will come to vote "Failed') Thousands??

Because the majority of guys with no problems are not chiming in. Therefore, the data pool is skewed.

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Exactly my point. Do we know how many "active" members/users in the 996 forum currently? Assuming most members/users also own a 996. "Active" means users who post and/or read.

Oh man... Jake goes "NORDO" and KK chimes in on his defense. How predictable. Upon joining this great group of guys, I quickly perceived the glaring dynamic...shame on me. So that KK gets this: it's not personal at all. I think I know what it is...and it is surely controversial. I think the issue is this: True "gearheads" don't buy hype. For example : Only Jake can solve my problem Only Jake can fix my problem Only Jake can make the tool... Only Jake can use the tool.... WTF? Sorry, but man cards are being checked here if this is how it is. It's not how it is....

So when I went into researching purchasing my car, I pulled up information regarding the IMSB Failures from here and a bunch of Jake's posts...It factored into my buying decision...It took a bunch more research to really get a full grasp of the problem... Jake knows his stuff, I am not arguing that...However his noble intentions are hard to believe with the tone and ego that he delivers them with... The 'data' and some of his claims fall into three categories best explained by Mark Twain... "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." His overblown fear mongering of a problem (admittedly a real problem) that affects less than 1 out of 10 cars (from skewed statistics) during their lifetime is unfairly affecting the value and perception of our vehicles... No car is bulletproof...GTI's have Piston Slap...Rotaries coke and pop apex and side seals...Vettes like to lunch rods at HDPE's ...However, there isn't anyone running around posting Doomsday scenarios for everyone to lose sleep over...A concern, yes, but a fear no... It's borderline libelous and some of you are running behind him to catch a sniff..It's pretty sad... Ken

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Agreed

A family member was a "special" member of the NAVY. I was privileged to meet some of his team mates at a picnic. These guys could do things, we were at a lake I saw them do amazing things. Yet what I took away most was how they carried themselves, quietly confident in their supreme skills, any boasting was playful and limited to team personnel. Pride in ethos, accomplishment and performance is natural, believing you are the only one who is at that level is probably the first step to losing your edge.

For you guys that get all butt hurt when Jake posts, why don't you put him on ignore or use your delete key and STFU.

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Agree!!!

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Works for me!

Wow! that was entertaining...Sadly, I feel no closer to making a decision regarding replacing the IMS that has lived in my car for over 110K miles. Onward...

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Read this, then decide: http://theimssolution.com/2016/09/16...t-vs-solution/

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Thanks for the link. Already read it. Considering it for sure. Price for install is about 1/4 the cost of the car so it is a tough choice vs a ceramic...

Wow. old thread revived. Keep in mind that the engine needs to be inspected and approved before the IMS Solution can be installed IIRC. Plus it needs a certified shop to do the install, but is a can of worms I will not kick over again. Once I figure out logistics to get my C4S to a certified shop I will go for the Solution and never worry about it again. Free plug for Jake I suppose, but I admire his dedication to the craft.

I had the LN dual row upgrade installed about 10,000 mi. ago, as well as the RMS. all is good, no probs. with my C4s. I think the roller bearing idea is a better way to go in the future for me. There's a company out of Germany been doing this style for years with apparent excellent success. LN engineering are now doing one as well called the IMS Solution; lots more money for the latter. In all I am happy with what I have so far.

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The IMS Solution is not a roller bearing. It's based on plain journal Bearing technology and has no *****, rollers, or cages to fail. My name is on both of the Patents that protect the IMS Solution.

Amazing how twisted information can get on the world wide web...

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No joke. It's why I have to waste hundreds of hours per year monitoring these forums, and others.

Good Morning Jake, You can put me in the column of people who are glad you are here and appreciate your input and knowledge. You all ready know I am looking at the solution, cost be damned - it's peace of mind for me.

But please note there are are plenty of us in that column who have never bought any Raby products. We are just as grateful for the generous advice and knowledge given. If it is salted with some promotion of LN or RND products ,most of us are capable of coping with that ! Note he does not sell any products -none . Jake has helped keep the M96 alive because he has developed and promoted solutions to problems that bedevil this engine. Who else has done as much for us? Certainly nobody in the peanut gallery who just throw some disparaging ad hominem remark and flee the scene. Thank you Jake.

I'm in the process of installing a Single Row Pro in my 2001 986S with 40K miles and original single row bearing. Following the published process on this included with the LN Faultless and Pro Toolkits (both the printed manual and the additional post manual published items noted on the LN website here http://imsretrofit.com/single-row-pro-installation/ ). Followed all the pre-qualification tests, everything passed with flying colors. Got the old bearing out and it is perfect, the usual situation where the bearing is filled with motor oil (not grease) which is confirmed once the seal was removed. One thing that is giving me pause is the bearing retention method using the wire lock. For those that have not been there or have not seen these parts, the factory bearing is retained with a very beefy internal circlip inside the end of the intermediate shaft. The IMS Single Row Pro provides for fitting a dual row of ***** in this location (insert your own joke here) but that means the bearing, while a lovely engineered item, has a wider shell. So the wire lock is used to retain the bearing in the bore of the shaft by fitting around the bearing shell in a groove located at the same location as the circlip groove in the shaft. The lock is installed using the very nicely made faultless tool that takes up the slack in the wire lock and forces it to stay tight against the bearing shell until inserted into the shaft where it "springs open" and fits into the factory circlip groove during the press fit install common to the IMS bearing replacement procedure. All that sounds great, but what I have found when doing a pre-install check is that the wire diameter on the lock is very small, and when it springs into the circlip groove it is below the surface of the groove all the way around. So, the lock does not appear to provide very much "locking" of the bearing. Now the bearing has a friction fit into the shaft, and the inner race of the bearing is retained by the IMS bearing cover on the outside of the shaft and the inner side is supported by the bearing insert that is bolted to the bearing cover. There is an additional installation note (from the page linked above) that suggests using Loctite to assist in retaining the bearing: 2. Loctite (bearing mount) can be applied to the housing bore, but not directly to the o.d. of the bearing, as a secondary method of retention for the new bearing. I am planning on performing this step. And I�m not suggesting that the bearing is going to fail because the wire lock does not seem effective, but I am looking for experiences from other installers � have you also noted that the wire lock does not extend into the shaft bearing bore once it is placed?

The issue is you have a shaft with a deeper and wider snap ring groove machined into the housing bore. These are few and far between, and are the reason why the bearing mount is mentioned. These Single Row Pro units had been in development for over 18 months before we ran into the first case of this. That said, the bearing is captive. It is retained with the wire lock, as well as the bearing flange. This is one big reason why LN kits all have a billet flange, is because the factory flange is not captive in regard to the bearing. To test this one time I turned .003" off the OD of a bearing, and installed it with no wire lock. It was to the point of being loose in the housing bore when installed. After 4 hours on the dyno we remove the flange and not even that bearing had moved. Now, that said, I hope that you didn't fully insert the bearing into the housing bore, and then remove it to test this. If so, you've done more damage than anything, as ceramic bearings should not be extracted by their inner race once they have been installed. Doing this will place small irregularities in the races from the ***** contacting them with high unit pressures.

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Great, I'm glad this isn't just me thinking I'm crazy No bearing insertion was done, I just put the wirelock in on it's lonesome since it did not eyeball right. I'll leave that out of the install. Thanks Jake!

^^Again, A such valuable source for the community! Jake, thank you for keeping us educated as I know your time is valuable and you really don't have to share it with anyone...

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FWIW, I had the LN single row (ceramic) bearing fitted some 15k miles ago, along with new RMS/clutch kit/AOS by my local Porsche dealer. They charged me around $3k all in......cost of the bearing was extra but I didn't have to buy the tool. Also, I guess within the last year or so I was in contact with Jake about the solution and he mentioned getting the LN ceramic single row replaced after about 50k miles and then go for the solution. If I still have the car by then I'll do that. I trust these guys at LN, if they say do it around 50k then that's what I'll do.