My engine died today :(

Porsche owner for less than a month. 75K on a '01 C4. Car had been checked over but no compression test was run. Car died, won't start, white smoke coming from driver exhaust pipe. Car does turn over. Oil is clean and coolant is clear. My Porsche owning experience has not been a happy one.

Do not lose faith...my engine exploded while having the care less than two weeks. Have it check by a reliable mechanic and it will come back. My best wishes.

Sorry to hear this. I had engine grenade on my 996 at 5k miles on a new car. It happens. It suks, but if you can replace it you will be in good shape.

Oh man, that sucks! Hopefully it is nothing major! Keep us posted on the diagnosis.

my car didn't start either today...luckily for me I was dumb enough to leave my xm radio plugged in to the cigaret lighter......but it is enoying and hope it is nothing major! Last time my P didn't start (besides today) it was only a fuse! check all fuses!! 2x..

compression test would not have told you anything,

Sorry to hear your news. Hope you have a trustworthy independent mechanic who can help you through this. If not (one month owning a Porsche), ask on here and you might find someone others have used. Best wishes, Andy T

Will you go to an Indy or dealer to sort out your troubles?

No need to panic yet!!!!!!!!!!! Cars don't start for lot's of reasons and most of them are pretty benign. White smoke does not automatically = blown engine as some of my co=members have quickly suggested!! I am sure that everything will be fine, let us know as soon as you have some more info. All the best!

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Local dealer. I'm just abouts to put my soul on eBay; I hope it brings enough!

My condolences for your loss

My friends 01, had a starter issue, hopefully that's all it is. I've had a cloud of smoke before...could mean a few things but not necessarily a blown engine. How's the battery voltage?

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I tried starting it again this morning before calling the tow truck (over an hour away from home) and it runs for about 2 seconds and dies while billowing smoke out the tail pipe. Driver tail pipe has a white residue and smoke smelled like coolant. Leaning towards a blown head gasket which, while not terminal, is not much fun.

If you would have a badly blown head gasket or cylinder wall, the engine would hydraulic-lock and would be impossible to turn over. I think something else is your problem, maybe on the FI side.

Sounds exactly like mine I am sorry to say - cracked #1 cylinder wall. Ugly ugly ugly. That is a rough way to start. Sorry for your pain. I assume you didn't have an extended warranty?

Sorry to hear about this. Be patient and take her to a Porsche specialist. It may not be as bad as you think. C.

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No extended warranty . I really hope it isn't a cracked cylinder wall as, I hate to admit it, I can't afford a new engine. But, if the motor comes out then is there anything I can do to it to make it not so damn slow? How about cams, porting, boring? Are there higher stress components I can put in to prevent this happening again (I'm not going to deny that I can be pretty hard on cars)?

This is confusing. The engine shouldnt die out on its own if the head gasket is KO'd or a slight crack in the cylinder wall. If it leaks enough coolant in to cause a misfire, it still should run, just rough. If the head gasket or cylinder wall failed, the smell of coolant would be strong if you had plumes of smoke coming out. Are you sure it was white smoke and smelled of coolant?

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Positive it was white smoke and there is also white residue in the driver's side tail pipe. Smelled like coolant to me but I'm no expert.

"But, if the motor comes out then is there anything I can do to it to make it not so damn slow?" Buy one with a decent engine! No 996 I have ever driven has ever been "damn slow", suggesting the failure to start and smoke was the end of an ongoing problem (and possibly why the previous owner decided to sell it).

my p is also...so damn slow...NOT!!......0-60 in what??? 5 secs!!!! how is this slow??? maybe you don't know how to drive a p...or you bought a lemon!!

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I didn't buy the first 996 I saw; I test drove others and mine was no slower than the others. They're not fast cars IMHO.

I love my 996, but will not argue that it's the fastest car on the road. It's the overall driving experience that i dearly love. Just be careful, UFO996. Whatever you do to get more speed inversely affects the reliability of your daily driver.

Come on guys, UFO may be taking his frustrations out because of the car. Perception could possibly be off a little from this incident, dont you think?

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Not at all: I'm just used to faster cars. You'll all jump on me if I mention that I don't think the handling of the car is amazing either? I knew the car was slow going into the purchase but still wanted one, so that should tell you something.

I have a 2002, 4 cylinder, Highlander, with about 210,000KM on it, if your intersted...it's certainly not as fast as my 911, but it may be right for you. p.s. I just got an oil change today, so you would be good for another 6,000KM.

Let me get this straight: you bought a MY01 996 with 75k miles and can't afford a new engine, but you're somehow used to "faster" cars? Which cars are these? Sure, I suppose you can find faster cars for a little less than the price of a 996, but you'd probably be giving up a lot in terms of driving dynamics. That said, the only thing that comes to mind are GM F-body cars and modified Mustangs, muscle cars that really don't deserve to be mentioned in the same post as the 996. Care to help me out with what faster vehicles you've been driving?

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1/4 mile wise, the 996 and the F-bodies are on par to each other, the Mustang doesnt have much of a chance. I did a 13.14 @ 109 in my '02 Z28, pretty much what these cars run. Handling, not even in the same ballpark! Now that I think about it, the only cars that are more powerful are the Z06's and Cobra's that are cheaper than the 996.

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Yeah, sorry I don't have the spare $20K lying around that I've been quoted for a new engine install. Let's be honest here: if I was a baller like yourself then I wouldn't be buying a 7 year old car with 75K on it now, would I? I've driven many different cars from Catherhams to blown Mustangs to Mitsubishi Lancers. My current Lancer goes round the track faster and goes faster in a straight line too. Giving up a lot in driving dynamics? Maybe so, but I never suggested otherwise.

For $20k, I hope they are using enough lube when they screw you..... I had an engine go after having it for 6 months. Replacement was 14k.

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Yep, but don't forget that the Z06 would probably be the C5 model, which--while not a BAD car--isn't necessarily the same vehicle it is today. As for the GT500, it's just another muscle car. Here's an interesting Top Gear video I found of an Exige S racing a Roush-modified Mustang of some sort: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-NZpS_gndDE So, yeah, those cars are pretty fast, but it looks like it's accomplished through brute force, with the handling an afterthought, as you imply.

Troll ?

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Haha, unbelievable....

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If they're quoting $20k, go find another shop. It should be more like $11-12k. That's what it cost to replace the engine on this "baller's" 9-year-old 996. I guess I just think that a used 996 is about the best "bang for the buck" out there right now and I don't really consider it fair to compare it to the cars you mention. YMMV.

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I was quoted $15K for the engine alone. Obviously I'll shop around but was told by the local Porsche service guy to budget near the figure I quoted. I never compared the 996 to the cars I mentioned, nor did I question its bang for the buck value; these are all words you guys are putting in my mouth. All I ever said was that it was slow and, well, as far as I'm concerned it is. I also knew this before purchasing the vehicle so it's obviously something I can live with.

You need more than one estimate but you're numbers are high for a new motor. Maybe a Porsche is the wrong car for you. Guess I'd wait until someone diagnoses the problem first.

If it were a C4 Cab with a tip, I could see that being a very slow car but a regular manual C4 shouldnt be too much of a slouch around town.

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My C4 wasn't.

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I'm sorry to read about your problem with your engine and hope it'll turn out that it's not a complete replacement! It seems that you're relatively new to the 911 ownership but drove fast cars before. I was in the same position 2 years ago and had to re-learn how to drive with my 996 C2 Cab (without PSM). However, after 2 years and 10 days on the track I'm much faster around a track than most Lancers although a lot of them are faster on the straigths; I didn't meet anyone that drove a Lancer faster through the turns than I drive my 996 but with the heavy rear-end of the 911, you need some practise to become fast. It's not an easy car to drive but driven right, it's a very fast and superb handling car.

Here's also hoping that it turns out to be a relatively minor repair.

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Oh, I absolutely agree. Engine replacements are a bitch.

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I just checked the receipt for the remanufactured 3.4l that my local dealer ordered through Porsche for my '99 C4. This was done in December 2006. Paperwork made me laugh: Engine: $8129.56 Freight: $26.63 I can't believe the price would have jumped much in less than a year. Just trying to help!

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I believe I was being quoted on a new crate engine (didn't know they were still available). I checked eBay over the weekend and there was a 20K '01 engine for $8,650 so there's always that avenue. Thanks for all the kind words: I wasn't trying to cause an uproar with my 'slow' comments, nor was I trying to troll. This is really me, and this is really my 3 week old car that died. And, yes, I really will sit here and argue the merits of the Lancer as a track car . Not only am I trying to deal with the disappointment of my car dying on me (I've wanted a Porsche for as long as I can remember) but I'm also fighting the anger that the original owner ripped me off. I came here to learn more about my car and you guys have been a great help so far and I appreciate that.

Good luck on sorting it.

Isn't there some sort of lemon law for used cars? I'm not sure about private party sales, but if you bought from a dealer and they misrepresented the car, then you should be able to talk to them about handling the repair (or buying the car back). I'm sorry about your situation. Having a car grenade on you after 3 weeks is awful. Even if your a "baller", you don't anticipate spending $10k on repairs after a month of ownership. sucks, hope it works out.

GL with your situation. From what you mention it might be cheaper to buy another Porsche instead of replacing the engine.

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Hey, no harm on the Lancer, especially considering that I considered one before buying my 996. I'm comfortable saying that I made the right choice for myself at this point, but I'm not currently looking down the barrel of a huge bill right now. Also, in all fairness, I get some mean comments sometimes for defending the Miata that I "graduated" from and still own.

Anyone would be bitter after such an experience. I don't know what state you are in, but the dealer really should be held accountable after only 3 weeks. Was it a Porsche dealer? Make a stink!! write to Porsche AG if so. And yes, the Lancer is quite a machine for moving quickly. When faced with such difficult financial hit as you have taken, the soul of the Porsche is little consolation. Fight!

When I started looking for my 996, a few months ago, I stopped by the local independent shop in my area. I thought he said he could get a crate motor for $5k and change it out in a couple days. With a decent markup he is still going to be less than $12k. I feel for you and hope it's not as bad as it sounds. GL By the way; the Shelby replica I sold (and replaced with my 996) would smoked my butt in every sense. It wasn't as comfortable and useful.....but it was fast.

[QUOTE=UFO007;4774159]QUOTE] Where are you located

Still not convinced your car wasn't a duffer from the outset. Most of us have driven a range of quick cars and the no one can seriously describe the 996 as "damn slow". And if you though the Lancer was quick, then there really was a problem. I rally a British Gp N Lancer (V111) and while it is blisteringly quick off the mark, my 997 leaves it for dead past 80 - and my Lancer is good for a steady 300bhp. I can't believe a standard road going Lancer would get close to any 996. I think the Lancer V111 hits the ton in around 15, surely even a 3.4 996 does it in under that? Not that this helps you. But thank your lucky stars you don't live over here - $26,000 for dealer fitted new engine here. One plus side, it's basically a new back of the car and includes new starter, alternator, air con compressor etc etc.

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Yup. A 3.4 would beat your stated Lancer time to 100 by 3 full seconds. A huge difference. This is not a slow car by any standard. I realize that there are guys who miss that shove-in-the-back you get from big torque, but that's not the same as fast. If you think your 996 is slow, then either you traded a monster for it, or (respectfully) you don't know how to drive it, or there's something wrong with it.

Houston. Car's currently at Momentum Porsche SW.

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The Evo 8 does not hit 100 in 15 seconds.... My car ran the 1/4 at 13.2 @ 101 bone stock. As it sits right now it runs 12.6 @ 109 off a 1.7 60'. Evo IXs are hitting 12s bone stock. But, drag racing isn't really my thing. So, yeah, I do think the Lancer is quick. Fast? Nope. Like I have said: I did not buy the first car I saw and have test drove quite a few others. Now, my butt-o-meter is not very scientific but it felt no different than any of the others I test drove; it even felt faster than one of the 99 C2s I drove. Anyway: I'm done arguing the speed thing. It's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. I don't think it's a fast car and I'm not going to apologise if you get offended over my opinion.

Not offended just curious. My 997s leaves my Lancer for dead past 80 as I said (as it would because it's around 2 secs quicker to a 100 than even your figures) - and, by my butt-o-meter, my 997 feels only marginally quicker than any of the 996s I have driven. Let's agree to differ. Flog the rolling shell and buy something really quick like a TVR - that should last a bit longer (and I mean a bit). And get yourself a new butt while you are at it - I suspect yours is broken (has a it got a hole in it by any chance?) Whatever you do I hope you have more joy next time around. Over and out. Mark

THERES always the option of a used engine you should be able to do that for under 7k out the door

That's a decent price...but I'm guessing it still won't be fast enough because our 996s are so slow according to UFO.

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Don't forget, they aren't real Porsches either!

y'all take any hits to the 911/996 so seriously. the evo8 is a very competent car that'll give any normally aspirated 911 a run for its money and in many cases will beat it outright esp in the straights with them silly turbos. i can see how someone from a turbo car could call an n/a car "slow", but we should all be able to deduce that this is slightly embellished given we are on the internet. recognize beeeeeooootch

Oh yea. They're slow because they are water cooled too, I forgot.

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I agree with Ben on this one (oh do I really agree with Ben )! Don't take this too serious. We all know that we didn't get the best bang for the buck in terms of straight line performance with the n/a 996. But that's not the point of these cars. Comparing a Lancer to a 911 is like comparing a Big Mac to a Filet Mignon - both satisfy hunger but if you don't get the difference, be happy and stick to the burger.

You guys are seriously on something. Tell me how many cars you can find these days for around $30-40K that have around 300hp, track ready brakes and suspension and yet weigh less than 3000#? The EvoVIII / IX weighs in at over 3400#. The Scooby is the same Maybe a supercharged Elise but that would be more then $40K in the end. Even a older BMW E46 M3 weighs in at over 3200#. Do the math with all the power for each car above. Who really gives s crap what the 0-60 times are. I have seen an Mazda RX-8 in the hands of an experienced driver lap me in a 350hp track prepared E46 M3. Power shmower. A prepared 996 coupe on the track will be a serious weapon in the right hands. And speaking of which, I am fully prepared to throw out all that I "think" I know about driving to re-learn the 911/996. The days of lightweight, powerful cars is rapidly going away. More and more cars come are coming out with gobs of horsepower but weigh the same as most RV's. Cherish, tune and most of all drive what you have. C.

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"so damn slow?" HAHAHAHA Were you shifting the 996 at 3,500 RPM? LOL The 996's engine just starts coming to life at about 4,000 RPMs wich is where many blown Mustangs are starting to run out of steam. When you get your engine repaired try taking it to redline in order to get all the power out of it. From 4,000 - 7,200 RPM the 996 is DAMN FAST, and I don't care what you are comparing it to. If you have been reving the car to redline with WOT, then you may want to have the repair shop take a look at your **** dyno also. LOL Do you have any pics of the car? Otherwise, I am sort of inclined to think you are just another Troll also, with his first post being the old "another 996 blown engine BS."

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????? My 3.4l C4 Cab does the ~ same time ( low 13s ), only performance upgrades are SSK, RoW M030, and PSE.

Man, you haven't had good fortune with this car at all. Hell, when you bought it, I seem to remember you having a certain indifference towards the transaction as a whole.

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Hey man; didn't know you were over here . Yeah, it needs a new front bumper, has many more scratches on it than the owner told me about, and needs a new A-arm on the passenger front, melted buttons on the radio and just some other niggly stuff. The car had been sat for months and it turned up in **** state and looked a hell of a lot worse than it really was. After a good clean and buff job and some TLC I was starting to feel comfortable with the car.

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Your concept of fast and mine are completely different. Anybody who would like me to show them the difference between a 996 C2/4 and a fast car then let me know. I have plenty of pics. What would you like to see? What my garage looks like? Or a picture of it being loaded on to the tow truck (you'll also like the file name)? If you bothered to search you would see this isn't the first thread I've created. It's amazing how ***** hurt some of you are getting over a single comment. Sounds like some of you are rather insecure and what I said touched a nerve.

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It sucks that your first jump into Porsches will probably leave a sour taste in your mouth. The used car market can be a mixed bag at times, I guess. As others have stated, $20,000 sounds way high for an engine replacement. Best of luck.

UFO, You did get a bum wrap straight out the door from your purchase. I think the reason you are getting stomped on a bit is because you are a new guy and sometimes it is best to be a bit more democratic until folks can get to know you. There is a mere **** load of great people in a ton of information here that will do nothing but help. Yes, a few do get bent about slow, but if you are a balanced driver, you can master what Porsche has to offer in driving dynamics vs. driver skill and usually walk right by anyone around you. If you want power, 10k will buy you a supercharger and you and I can drag down the road. It sound like you should do a little research because there are plenty of 6500.00 low mile motors out there is you look. Any good Indy should do the drop and swap for around 2k in labor. Some will be more but you do get what you pay for. Again, sorry that one hit you in the face so quick, but if you jump in a call everyone a ***** when you are just arriving, chances are they are just going to consider you a douche-bag who could not afford to be here in the first place. I would **** if I lost my motor right now but I would not rag on a crew of cool folks and then ask for help. Good Luck.

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Let me get this straight. You post disparaging comments about the 996 in a Porsche 996 message board and you are surprised that you get negative feedback. Try going to a Vette board and posting that their cars are "slow" or "of poor finish quality." Better yet, go post on the 993 board that their cars are "slow" and report back to us with the type of treatment you receive. LOL After all, the 993 is even slower than the "so damn slow" 996. I do not have any insecurities about being a 996 owner. I have driven many high performance cars of all makes and models and the 996 is tops on my list. Your derogatory comments about the 996, however, does show your ingnorance when it comes to performance cars. IMHO of course. Good luck in getting your car fixed to your satisfaction. Honestly.

+1 Dream Carrera. Well said.

I would say my 996 c2 is damned fast! Maybe you are thinking of a 911 SC when you say they are slow?

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Oh sorting , never mind.

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Disparaging? Calling a car slow is disparaging? So, sue me, I want more power out the engine.... Why would I go to a 'Vette board? I don't own a 'Vette, but I do own a 996. Just the same reason I don't go to the 993 board. Derogatory comments? Plural? Slow & slow? So, now you attack me personally and call me ignorant along with the other comments about having a hole in my ****? No wonder Porsche owners have such a bad rep.

I have some thoughts about this whole scenario. When buying this car, did you research the repair costs? Meaning...a 996 is a far cry from a Mitsu Evo in terms of repair costs. I mean...one is 35K loaded and the other is $100K+ loaded. Suuuure, I could go out and buy a $40-50K Ferrari. I'd love to own a Ferrari. But the repair costs on a Ferrari are astronomical. Example: $5000 engine service. YIKES! The term is truly true. You gotta pay to play. This thread approaching hilarity now. Sad really...because at first as I really wanted to help you. In fact, if you look at the responses...pretty much everyone was there in support for their Porsche brother. A little advice. One must be careful when pissing in the wind. It's liable to blow back at you. C.

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Fricken cracked me up. Thanks for the laugh.

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Of course I looked at repair costs. However, under no circumstances did I expect the engine to let go after 3 weeks and less than 1K miles of ownership. You don't expect to buy a car and have to replace the engine in it. And when the Porsche dealership tells you it will be $20K then you tend to listen to that. You can sit back and laugh at me all you please, I'll still sleep tonight. Just to brighten your day: Stealership finally called and believes the timing chain broke and all the valves are bent. So, they're telling me it needs a new motor.

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OK now we're getting somewhere. One last question. Did you money shift? I had a suspicion about this when you posted what was happening. The smoke, not starting, etc...is a classic symptom of a money shift. A typicla money-shift is going from 5th to 2nd gear accidentally. Money shift = over-reving the motor. When you do, valves float and pistons slam into them. This sounds like what you did. In fact, the the ECU will have recorded event the second it happened. The dealer will be able to tell you if that is what happened. It's called a Type 2 over-rev. FWIW, the timing chain would have broken when the valvetrain suddenly stopped. Sounds to me this is what happened to the motor... C.

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I was at about 4K in 2nd gear when the motor let loose, not even full throttle. No over-rev.

Ask the dealer to check the ECU for Type 2 over-rev conditions. I'm curious if the motor had been at some point or another. It would explain A LOT. And...get your car out of the dealer and take it to an Independant Porsche specialist. If you don't know where...contact your local PCA and ask for a recommendation. You'll likely save a lot of $$$. C.

Based on the other problems you've had, it sounds like you got a car that was abused by its previous owner(s). Sorry to hear about the motor, I think you will find exactly what you are looking for at the link below. They can probably even set you up with TWICE the power for under 20k. because a boxer is a dog and a V8 is an engine

There is no way you should pay $20k for a new motor. The last retail price quote I had in August on a reman. 3.4 was ~$11.5k. If your engine is a suitable core you get $2500 of that back for a total cost of about $9k. Not the best way to spend the money, but certainly a long way from $20k. Todd

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/eltorrente/car/911v8.jpg

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my thoughts exactly

Hey, the guy is hurting. Come to think of it, we are all hurting. I doubt I could sell my car for 80% of what I bought it for in April. But, if the engine blows I know where I can get a new crated 997 engine for $15k. And I'm not telling any of you where it is. Nah nah. (wouldn't fit a 3.4 car anyway).

UFO, it may be some small consolation that, according to some here, the 996 engine grenade is just a myth, or happens so rarely it hardly worth thinking about.... Seriously tho, drop the hammer, shop around, get a reman installed for around 10K and you'll have a great chance at a super car that will be uniquely reliable for many years to come. IN the meantime I feel for you. Grenades were a real concern for me before I pulled the trigger on a 996.

Sorry to hear your bad news

UFO, really feel for you. 3 weeks of ownership and the engine blows up. I would not be as positive as you are towards P-cars after that...... I hope it all works out for you in the best way possible.

UFO: There are a few things you should know: 1) You are not alone. I agree with you: 996's feel slow when you first start driving them, especially if you are used to turbocharged japanese cars. The reason, in my opinion, is that the torque curve is very flat, the acceleration is, as a result, very linear, and the refined nature of the car makes the speeds attained hard to notice, unless you look down at the speedo. You really don't feel the speed building because it happens without drama and the car feels the same at 150 as it does at 45. In cars from Japan or Detroit, you notice the speed. 150 is a white-knuckled affair. Additionally, a turbo'd car produces more of a sensation of quickness, because its acceleration is exponential and, because of this, you get most of the acceleration over a shorter period--when the turbos are on full boost spooling towards red line. If two cars both get to 60 in 5 seconds, but car #2 does half of all the the accelerating during second 4 of 5, car #2 will feel faster than a car that accelerated evenly throughout the 5 second period. My freind's old Mitsubishi 3000GT Twin Turbo (a complete piece of ****) felt much much quicker than my 996 and has a slower 0 to 60. 2) Yes, some people have pride issues, but your car is also worth its reputation. Most people here are proud of their cars because they have been able to drive them long enough to find where and how the cars can be very fast and fun to drive. Once you unlock a 911's secrets, few cars will deliver an experience like it. Few cars are faster (I pass Evo's all the time at track events). I think it takes a while to really get all you can out of a 996, but once you have done so . . . you become a nut like all these people. Unfortunate thing that you did not get that chance before the car bit you. Pretty unfair, but there is hope. Read tmy next post.

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Great post- I agree with the whole thing, though I didn't want to quote the entire novel. This point you made about passing Evo's at the track events got me thinking about the show Top Gear. The Stig lapped their test course in a 996 GT3 *in the wet* faster than he could drive the Evo *in the dry*. Pretty good stuff. The GT3 obviously is more capable than a regular 996, but I figure the wet track evens it up.

Engines: I blew my engine up just two months ago and have had it replaced. Here is everything you need to know about getting a 996 engine replaced: 1) New engines are <$9,000. At the dealer. Fresh from Germany. Without a single mile on them and with every accessory also brand new: oil pumps, water pumps, air intakes, etc--all new. Comes fresh from Germany as one unit. 2) $9,000 is just the bill for the engine/engine accessories, and does not include labor. Figure a little less than $3,000 for labor and fluids. This is for the complete install; at a Porsche dealer. This is not an opinion. I just paid this and can send you a copy of the invoice. 3) The <$9,000 price for an engine assumes that you have a good engine core to trade-in. I broke my crank case (don't ask) and therefore could not trade-in my engine core. Add $2,500 to $3,500 for a new core if the case is no good on your engine. 4) Worste case for all the above should therefore be closer to 15k than 20, but that is an expensive option (even though you are getting basically a new car) and I would explore two other alternatives, listed below. 5) Porsche has a goodwill program. If you bought the car from a dealer, you may be able to get them to ask Porsche Germany for a goodwill engine to cover their mistake (i.e., free or discounted parts, if you agree to pay for labor). You need to make a big stink; this is a district manager decision, not a service rep decision. But, if they sold you the car and it blew up this soon after purchase, you could probably legitimately claim that they made false representations when they sold you the car. 6) If all else fails, I would never, personally, buy a new engine for a 9 year old car. There are plenty of used engines out there which would be just fine. Go to a local shop, not the dealer. Have them pull something out of a wrecked car or give you an engine that has minor problems but was replaced under warranty. I was able to locate an engine with a cracked sump here in Florida. It was from a car with less than 15,000 miles. The owner had run-over a curb or something and had replaced his engine under insurance/warranty. All that was needed was for the sump to be welded so that the engine woudl stop leaking oil. I was quoted $3,500 for the engine, including labor/fluids to install it.

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and you missed my second novel on engines. long posts, but I feel really bad for the guy.

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I totally agree with the turbo car explanation and, yes, it does feel 10 times faster than the 996 ('feels', not 'is') and is a white knuckle ride when the turbo kicks in. My problem? I don't think the Evo's a fast car either . Of course, I'm only talking straight line speed and have never said anything against the braking/handling of the 996. Anyway, it's really a non-issue right now as My 996 is the slowest car on the board; and nobody can argue that . As for passing Evos at the track: you haven't met me .

everything over 1000 bucks in repairs after just buying ANY car sucks!! I agree with faszinated......do your research and get a used engine installed at an independent stealer. Should not cost you more than 8-10K....which is still a ****load of money to drop after 3 weeks of ownership.

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I bought the car from a private party so I really have no recourse unless I want to go the legal route. While I'm tempted to do that I don't think I will as months of litigation only for the bloke to file bankruptcy or buy a better lawyer than me is a big waste of time. I might sell the car as-is and cut my losses. I don't know yet. I do, however, know that - should I ever buy another Porsche (unlikely at this point) - my next one will have a warranty.

Long time PCA instructor. I pass GT3s. 911's are some of the fastest cars on the road, but only when you learn to drive them.

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sorry, meant to quote your comment about fast evo's. you should get your car fixed and give prosches a chance.

Sorry to add to the list, but lost my engine about 6 months after purchasing the car. Had to suck it up and drop a remanufactured engine in it. Not fun at the time, but still enjoying the car 3 years later.

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Bah, being an instructor is cheating . I've been passed by a Miata with a demon driver . This is my 2nd Evo and I'll defend them till the cows come home as I believe they are amazing cars for the price; maybe I'm retarded but, hey, I am the same guy who just bought a lemon. With a $90K budget you can take a $30K Evo and drop $60K in it and eat 99% of the cars you'll encounter on track, including a 997S. But, if I had to choose between the two I'd take the 997. I get the whole P car thing, it's just that mine's soured me.

Back to the subject at hand: What would be a fair price to sell the car with a blown motor? Just take $8K off local list prices? From what I can tell KBB is a little off base, especially in this area.

I don't think that you can sell it for list minus 8K....who wants to buy a car that doesn't do what it is supposed to do?? Drive!! If you get more than 1/2 the list value you are a lucky man! Try trading it in a a Porsche dealership for a CPO porsche.

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For the sake of other's looking to buy a [new to them] Porsche, there is no need for a warranty, IMO. I have personally purchased 5 used Porsches in my tenure as a Porchce owner. Everyone of them (save the 1st - HARD LESSON LEARNED ON THAT ONE), has been terrific. Those 5 were: 1988 944 Turbo <--the hard lesson 1994 968 Coupe 1988 944 Turbo S 1999 996 Carrera Aero 1999 996 Carrera Aero (current) The key to buying a used Porsche is finding a solid qualified Independant Porsche Specialist and having them perform a complete stem to stern pre-purchase inspection on the car. For cars over 60K miles, that includes a full check of the engine. Compression, cooling system, oiling, etc. It is the best $200-300 spent. My advice on this - if anything, and I do mean ANYTHING comes back that involves a repair of more than $1000 - WALK AWAY. Use your brain, not your heart when buying a Porsche. 7 years ago, when I was hunting for a 968, I went through 3 cars and $600 before I found the one I wanted. It was the best $600 I ever spent. While you did say you got the car checked out, I question the decision not to have the compression checked on a car with 75K on the ticker. This car may well be that 1st lesson for you as well. My 1st one cost me over $4000 in repairs within the 1st 1000 miles. NOT a pleasant experience. However, I certainly got bit by the Porsche bug. If you are into the Turbo's and love that rush...I HIGHLY recommend a 1988-89 944 Turbo / Turbo S. With the current turbo technology out there, the mods for these cars make them VERY fast. Be patient. Don't be hasty in reaching a decision on the 996. Research what is available and decide from there. In my opinion, $20K is completely unreasonable for a new engine. I would advise to pull that car from the dealer and find a local independant. Once again...good luck. C.

I guess there is some merit to the old addage that there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche.

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You bet. Same thing applies to pretty much anything. You get what you pay for. C.

I have been driving Pcars for 20 years. I tell people to budget $3,500 a year for maintenance. That way anyone I talk with is prepared. Sooner or later you may need it....and if you don't then I am still safe Sorry you are having to feed the meter up front but that is just the way it is with these cars. Sounds like you would be better off with a Japanese car. There are other europeon cars worse than Porsche in this department

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True, but I think there are NO other German cars worse than Porsche in this department.

Meh, the BMW E46 M3 has some pretty expensive parts on it. My VANOS (variable valve timing unit) went on mine. Thankfully BMW covered it - it's a $3000 part. Then there's Mercedes-Benz. V12 turbo charged motors, SLR....ring a bell? Ding, ding, ding... C.

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IMHO yes, Mercedes. Anytime a board of directors has to tell the company to stop putting new stuff in cars and make the current stuff work first...you know you got a BIG problem. This happened a few years back and is one of many reasons they got out of Chrysler. Like Colonel Sanders siad, do one thing and do it well.....Chicken, or Mercedes.

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Yeah you're right but we're not talking about supercars. If you take the SLR, then you need to compare it to the Carrera GT. Someone could also argue that Lamborgini or Rolls Royce are "German" cars.

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That's correct but the MB's board did stop management due to the fact that the company took the hit, not the customer. I'm also glad MB and BMW test all the new stuff on their flagships S-class and 7-serie, otherwise we'd still not have airbags and all these goddies in our cars.

So, I heard back from the stealership today. We'd been trying to work something out through the goodwill program but, obviously, that didn't work out. Momentum Porsche phoned to give me the quote for the new engine & install: $16,240 + tax. I'll be sending a tow truck tomorrow to pick the car up.

So to clarify the dealer confirmed the engine needs replacing? What are they saying is wrong with it. Sorry to hear this. GL

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Give a call to a reputable Independant Tech...my bet it will be a lot less than that... C.

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Intermediary shaft broke causing timing chain to snap and the valves & pistons made sweet loving.

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Just got off the phone with one (Pro Technik) and they said around $15K out the door. I know I'll get flamed but I simply can't afford that.

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Not from me you won't. I'm a self-proclaimed cheap bastard. Keep hunting...and ask about a remanufactured motor. It will have the same warranty as a crate motor. C.

Can relate to UF007's problem. It is probably the intermediate shaft bolt that fractured, which sets off a catastrophic engine failure. This is just one of the 996 design flaws that can cause a catastrophic engine failure. Happened to my 2003 C4S at 36,600 miles, 4 months and 4,000 miles after I bought it this year. Previously, it had one owner on a corporate lease. Total cost of parts and labor was $13,000 at a PCNA dealer/service center, including a "new" (Porsche-remanufactured) engine. "Funny" fact is that I bought an extended warranty, but the fine print excluded bolts and chain reactions caused by excluded parts!

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^^^ that sounds like a bunch of BS to me. What warranty company screwed you like that?

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No flames from me--I still think that's too high, too. I'd keep checking around and hopefully someone from here will have a better idea of what to do.

Well, just as an FYI I just replaced my motor in my 1999 for the same thing... but both Suncoast and Sunset had prices for factory motors at $7-7.5k which I was able to get a local dealer to match. I found an independent shop that was able to put the whole motor in for under $1000 (friend hook-up). So the whole thing was under $10k! The good news is that the new motor comes with everything on it except a AC compressor and its all backed by a 2yr warranty. Had the alternator go out within two weeks and had it replaced under warranty since it came with the motor! If Suncoast or Sunset is close enough it might be worth the shipping to get it from them... David

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Apparently you cannot buy a 'new' motor and the price quoted by both places was for a re manufactured one that does indeed carry a 2 year warranty. I'm in Houston and I believe those guys are in So Cal? A little far . I can get a used engine from LA Porsche Dismantler for about 9K. I have friends offering help to install it if I decide to go that route but there's no warranty and none of my friends are Porsche mechanics.... [edit] I would imagine shipping from Suncoast would work out less. I'll call them tomorrow.

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No flames from me either. That is not "lunch money" we are talking about! BTW - Sunset Imports is in Beaverton, Oregon [phone removed]. Suncoast Porsche is in Sarasota, Florida [phone removed].

No flames here neither. That is an ugly situation, and the worst part is that the car will not be worth $1 more than before the motor blew. Well, maybe $1-2K more. Call Strasse Auto in Costa Mesa - they did my motor rebuild for $5500 which seems like the same problem as yours. 6 month warranty. I imagine it would only be about $1000 to have a local shop swtich your accessories to the new(er) motor. If you think you are gonna keep the car forever, pay the $12K and try to enjoy it.

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In all honesty: right now I'm so disheartened that I just want the thing gone.

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UFO, I'm sorry to hear this, I hope you get it worked out somehow. BTW, You mentioned in an earlier post that the car will start and run for about 2 seconds or so and then die. How is this possible given that the valves and pistons touched and also the timing chain is broken. Are you sure that the stealer diagnosed the problem correctly? Just a thought. Again good luck.

Sorry for your pain man.

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According to the dealer the passenger side is fine but the driver's side is throwing all sorts of codes. When I say it runs I use the term very loosely . The dealer has not performed a tear down so they're just going off what they have seen before.

UFO, I am sorry to hear of your troubles. These cars arent really that slow. Get some track time under your belt, and I am sure you'll find 911's, in general, to be very impressive cars. I sold a C4 corvette over decade ago to get my first 911 -- a 1978 SC. At first, I thought the 911 was a pig. Then, once I found that you can rev the **** out of them, my thoughts quickly turned around.

To UCrazyKid: it was a Prizm Total Protection Plan, Supreme coverage, sold through SportsTrend of Studio City, CA as an all inclusive, top of the line extended warranty. My bad for not reading the fine print. My primary point is not about that warranty, however. My main point is that Porsche AG advertises outstanding performance and outstanding reliability, but relative to world class sports cars today the 996 is only delivering the former. Moreover, the 996 engine unreliability we can encounter includes ugly, dangerous, and intolerable catastrophic engine failures caused by any one of a number of design flaws. When operating normally, the 996 is an amazing and seductive car. Given the Porsche legacy and industry leading margins, we should expect elimination of all such design flaws and extremely generous financial contributions for those who suffer these catastrophic events out of warranty. In the end, it would be a wise long term investment by Porsche AG.

Don't feel too bad, the same thing happened to me. I had to call Porsche and they came to my rescue. Porsche does not like the idea that their cars suffer from catastrophic failures. Call them and give it a shot. By the way, how come no one knows why the Intermed. Shaft. Bolt shears off? I was told by the head mechanic at the dealership that the new engines have a different bolt with a different metal? I also read articles that accuses the cylinder heads of being too porous and somehow contribute to this disaster. Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.

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Sorry to hear about your misfortune with your 996 and extended warranty but I have to say that the rest of your post is BS. The 996 engine is not bulletproof but then neither is any high performance engine. Catastrophic engine failure is RARE and effects only a very small percentage of 996s, of course this is of little consolation to those who have experienced an engine failure. Believe me, all high performance cars experience their fair share of engine failures as well as other problems, we just happen to hear about 996s because we are on a 996 board. Also, we hear from a disproportionate number of owners who have had an engine failure because these people come to this site to seek advice and to vent about their problem.

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True statement. North Americans love torque and understandably confuse it with 'fast'. These are very fast cars.

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I went up as high as I could in the Porsche ranks and was politely told that I was on my own. I'm trying to see what I can get for the car 'as is' right now and will wash my hands with it if the right offer arises. The stealership wouldn't even make an offer on the car .

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Hey, don't call me North American . I'm actually English and had only ever driven two V8 powered cars before moving here (XJ8 and A8). I'd always wanted a Mustang and bought one shortly after moving here. It was slow (260 HP 4.6 V8) and I ended up supercharging it (Vortech V2 SQ) which certainly livened the car up, but it had a strange habit of eating clutches with almost 400 HP at the wheels.. Funny that. It started to eat the gearbox too. I also threw money at the suspension to try and make it turn, but I lost that battle. The car ran a best of 11.9 @ 116 and, to be honest, I don't really consider that a fast car either, but it was close. Anyway, I swore that I would never own another American V8 again after that. Ironically, I did cross shop the Corvette C6 before purchasing the P but, well, I don't know how to describe it, I guess it just lacked soul. I guess my point is: every 'performance' car I have owned I have modded to make it faster or handle better. Unfortunately, short of a supercharger, there seems to be nothing available for the 996 short of an overpriced supercharger. I wasn't sure if the usual mods such as heads/cams etc. were absent due to the fact they didn't show high gains, or difficulty and cost of install.

UFO, Orbit racing in FL has used engines. They offered me one for $3,500, installed. You should call them. Maybe they can ship to TX.

UFO - sorry to hear about this - truly catastrophic in many ways IMO. Just curious, what was your original buy price? I am sincerely sorry to hear of your experience and really can understand why you want might to drop your '01 as a potential boat anchor and never do anything but sneer at a P-car in the future. I hope you find a way out and suffer the minimum financial loss possible. On the bright side, you may have learned that for you, a P-car simply doesn't satisfy your desire. I don't think you should have to mod a car to death to get it to be what you want. As to the "slow" issue, I run into quite a few guys who ask me to "race" and start quoting 1/4 mile ET and mph at the line. I usually just stare in disbelief. Decades ago as I kid I was into 1/4 mile drag racing and built some pretty strong cars. But I do clearly remember that as impressively fast as my cars were, they were really only good for that straight line 1/4 mile. The son of a friend of mine went for a ride in my 996, he runs a mustang, and at the end he said, "not bad for a daily driver I guess, but my Mustang would stomp all over you". His father heard the comment and saved my day. I'll leave out the expletives, but basically he told his son that if he really wanted to "race" my 996 he should race me to another town and he was sure that I would be at the diner paying the check before his kid arrived". My point is that purpose and perception are relative. I knew "why" I desired to own another Porsche, and it certainly wasn't to smoke tires off the line. It is my perception that my 996 delivers precisely to my expactations, and it actually more than serves what was my intended purpose. Again, that's based on me, not on what someone else might be expecting. Likewise, the kid I mention does have a pretty quick mustang and that was his intention. Trying to "rate" value between the two cars just makes no sense to me. And after reading what you are going through, I am no longer second guessing my decision to pay the premium I did for my '04 CPO. Best of luck to you.

I have always thought of the standard, C2, normally aspirated 911 as a Stradivarius. It sounds so good, does so many things well, has good fuel economy and mine have always been extremely reliable. I started driving at about 14yrs old in a VW bug; later fell in love with my Dad's 356 spending untold hours on winding back roads in Ohio. Engines in the back just feel right to me. I can imagine a self-taught fiddle player in a country rock band in the Ozarks might have little respect for a Strad when what he wants is a tough brick with electronic pickups. At some level, I am disappointed when I hear people talking about 0-60 or 1/4 mile times in Porsches. I think they've missed the point. It's not bad....just a path where you are gaining status/enjoyment by comparing yourself with others. A lot of rocks & cacti on that path. Choose the right tool for the job. If you want a pocket rocket--get a rice burner on NOx--they just have no soul. Big metal is also easy to find--just plan on 8-13mpg. But the music that comes from the Porsche, the feel and balance that it has over back roads....is just wonderful. If you don't value that, then you're ranting because your Ford won't float....and you Really wanted to take your friends water skiing. I wouldn't wish engine trouble on anyone...but it's also impossible to know how the car was treated before you got it...and we don't even know how you've treated it since you owned it. Hope you find a reasonable solution. But your posts seem odd in that you said that before you bought it, you didn't think Porsches were very fast nor did they corner all that well....but you got it anyway. With sound reasoning like that, I don't know what to make of anything you say.

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I paid $28,900 for the car. I'm going to head down to the Porsche dealership tomorrow and see what they have on the lot and see if we can't come to some arrangement. The P car was supposed to be a second car for me but I'm willing to trade the Lancer in also and have it as my only car.

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I've been driving since 14 too where my Dad would let me drive his car around the neighbourhood. At a younger age he used to drive and let me steer and do gears too. I started driving in a stick and that's pretty much all I've ever drove. I used to take my Fiesta XR2 and run the country lanes behind Altrincham and Wilmslow every chance I could get. I'd even drive to Wales & Anglesea just so I could stretch the legs on the twisty back roads. As a teenager I was also a pretty good go-kart racer with quite a few competitive wins under my belt. My parents paid for me to go to Jonathon Palmer's racing school. I'm 37 years old now and have driven at least 100 different cars. So, you can sit there in your armchair and claim that I broke the car, but the fact is I did nothing. Did I drive it like it is supposed to be driven? Of course. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I drove at less than 4K RPMs the entire time I owned it, but I'm also not some kid who flogged it while bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear and downshifting into 2nd instead of 4th. I'm sure after all that you all must think I'm trying to portray myself as a modern age Ayrton Senna. I'm not. Far from it in fact. I'm an average driver and get humbled every time I go to the track by someone in a lesser car who just drives the crap out of it. But to suggest I'm some 16 year old kid with no concept of how to drive is far from the truth. I've been to the drag strip about 10 times in my entire life. If you read my post you should have understood why I sold my 11 second Mustang: it's because it wouldn't turn. Why did I buy the Porsche? Because it does a lot of things well and, well, it's a 911. I surely shouldn't have to tell anyone on this forum that driving a 911 is something special. It's almost impossible to sum up, but whereas the Corvette I mentioned lacked soul, the 911 is brimming over with it. You can stand there and look at a 911 and, even without driving it, you know it's something a little bit special. I can live with its shortcomings because it's one of my dream cars. I also never said it didn't handle well. I said my Lancer handled better and it does. It's also faster in a straight line. My Lancer isn't stock in either the engine or handling department so I find it hard to understand why people insist on arguing this with me because unless you've seen it go round a track then you really have no idea. I can take a Civic and throw money at it and make it quicker round the track than a 996 C4. But, at the end of the day, it's a Civic with a lot of money spent on it; just as my Lancer is a Lancer with money thrown at it. Even if I come in second in the 996 then, well, I'm still driving a 996.

UFO - at $28,900 with the engine failure it seems like the bottom line is that you got a bum deal. That happens, wish I could say that I never got hoodwinked in a deal, but sometimes no matter how careful we think we are this kind of thing happens. I was sort of hoping you either stole the car or the PO priced in what he might of known it was going to cost to make it straight. Then again, maybe there was no mal-intent on his part either. Unfortunately, for what you paid and the cost of even a "good" deal on an installed engine, you'll be upside down value wise. Wish I had something to tell you that would help, but I don't. I would agree however that getting out from under is probably your best move. Who knows what other mechanical demons might be awaiting you with this car. Hope for the best.

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UFO, I don't know if you still need an engine or not, as I didn't have time to read thru the entire thread. But, I was at Eurocar- werk in Bellaire the other day, he has a complete 996 engine sitting in his shop. I know it's used, maybe you can get a good deal on it. Good luck

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Thanks for the heads up. They must be closed today as nobody's answering. Are they a decent shop? Should I trust them with the install or take it somewhere else?

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Don't give up on Porsche. you need an aircooled car for 2/3 the price. Seems it would fit your driving style and your budget.... My favorate car to drive is my 964 RS. It makes yourC4 feel like a boat anchor....Or step up to a GT3... It has all the goodies and won't blow up on you....Or a track preped SC... My GT3 can't keep up with them on the track.... Don't take these 996 guys to personal. They love their cars....It is not their fault Porsche has had some problems with the waterboilers.....

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I (normally) spend 99% of my car inside & driving it and 1% of my time looking at it. Therefore, the interior has to be aesthetically pleasing to some degree (yeah, I know I drive a Lancer) and the older 911s just do nothing for me in that regard. I much prefer the 996. Anyway, dealer offered me $10K for the car on a trade.... I just don't seem able to get a break.

Maybe I missed some twists and turns on this story, but if the issue is a replaced motor, isn't the most rational thing to do to keep driving it? That's the only way to get your money out. Thanks to our dollar, for example, my 996 has depreciated at least the cost of a new motor in the year and a half I've had it. The last thing I'd do now is sell it... that would turn a theoretical loss into a real one. Whereas, if you get a couple years of pleasure out of it, the eventual real loss will be reduced by the value of the use you got out of it. I fully understand being pissed about this. But the most economical move you could make now would be to fix the car and put some miles on it.

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Allow me to preface my next comment: I am not saying anything definite, these are just what my thoughts would be if faced with the same situation. Before I would make the investment in the engine, I would be looking to somehow get a level of confidence that I wouldn't be faced with any other major repair right around the corner. I would be considering that the trashed engine could be the cause of abuse or lack of appropriate maintainance and repair by the PO. If that was true, there is plenty left that could break and cost major bucks. I'd also be biting down real hard considering the following: I need to put approximately 10K in for the engine - so now I am in for 10K more than I agreed to originally. At this point I would be forced to accept that I am in for $38,900 for the 01 with 75K and a good and warranteed enginge. We don't know much else about the condition of the car, I think UFO said it had more scratches and was dirtier than he expected it to be. (Another opinion of mine is that when an owner can't be bothered with the appearance of the car, what everyone can see, he probably was less than diligent about taking care of what can't be seen) Or - if I accept 10K on a trade, I am out 19K on the deal and now I am 19k more in for a P-car that I orignally agreed to. So, my at risk on a decision would be 9k, I already lost the 10K, cry all I want to, it's my party, but done is done. Then I'd have to believe that if I keep the car it will be straight and I will not be forced to go in for 9k or more for unscheduled repairs for at least the next few years. Or, I could eat the 9k up front and risk that I will find a truly straight, and hopefully waranteed, P-car that meets what I was looking for in the first place. Sure, there is plenty more in the details that could be considered, but at a high level, this is what would really having me thinking, and quite pissed not to say the least. And of course, if I buy another one and start at retail above $28,900 - then I am even more in. Again, these are just my thoughts. I really do hope you find a way to negotiate well no matter which way you decide to go.

I'd feel the same way; I'm just saying I'm not sure how much sense it would make. There really isn't a lot of expensive stuff to break outside the engine compartment. And a great detailer can do magical things with minor paint damage and even interior flaws. Even adding those costs in, you're still not in as deep a hole as you would be cutting bait right now. That said, I understand better than a lot of people how emotion weighs into these things. You have to sleep, and you have to grin when you look at what's in your driveway. Those things are worth something, too.

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Emotion? What's that? I told myself that I wasn't going to go look at the car while it was at the dealership because I'm pretty sure the credit card would have slipped out if I had. It's a bit of a roller coaster ride for me right now: one minute I'm at peace with the situation and the next I'm mad as hell. I just feel all alone. Even $10K is a lot of money to me and I've yet to find a reconditioned engine for anything close to that. I WILL NOT put in a used engine without a warranty as to go through this again would be suicidal. I've neglected one very important point in the equation: I bought the car off of eBay. Why didn't I disclose this? Well, I'm embarrassed about getting ripped off for a start and was hoping to sidestep the 'you should never buy off eBay' comments. Now, I do get VPP with eBay but it's up to 30 days past the end date of the item. I'm passed that point by over 2 weeks (it took over a week to get the car here). Not sure how much they would help anyway. I'm just rambling here. I spent yesterday removing all the bits from the Engine in the Lancer and will spend tomorrow pulling the exhaust and removing the stereo (god damn are my hands/knuckles sore). Thinking of trading it in on a Fit or something (I was hoping to trade it in with the broken 996 on a different Porsche) so at least I have something to drive. Worst case scenario right now: buy the engine, stock up on beer & pizza, get a few mates round and see what a mess we can make. Speaking of beer: tonight I drink!

Don't feel too bad about the eBay thing. I bought mine on a freakin' impulse. From a DEALER no less. At Canadian prices! And didn't have it independently inspected until AFTER I took delivery. Then paid handsomely to get all the stuff fixed that, had I known about it, would have scared me off. And then, to top it off, didn't find Rennlist until after the fat lady sang. And yet I love it. Enjoy the beer!

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I drive by the place nearly everyday, but I have only ever used them once. I needed some tire work done. They did a good job, but I thought they were a tad expensive. The guy who runs the place is named Eric, seems like he knows his stuff. Good luck.

My engine blew without warning, white smoke blowing out the back. I read somewhere there might be a design flaw with the 1999 2000 model with regard to the cylinder walls. This 3.4 model was not raced and was the 1st year for Porsche's water cooled engine. Once disassembled there was a cracked cylinder wall. I picked up a used engine for $6000. Question is, will this happen again? Maybe its time to unload. Comments?

UFO Don't get discouraged! Spring of this year I bought my first Porsche, 02 c4s. Drove home 400mls and fell in love. Got really pissed at Porsche of north America cause they have the worst possible customer relations. It took them 3 weeks to send me a letter of recall for importing into Canada. Finally got the vehicle registered and was able to drive my dream car. Within a couple of months and some excessively hard turns I had gobs of smoke billowing out the tail pipes. My heart sank for I thought I had destroyed my motor.Found rennlist, became a member and realized all was not lost, but really was a common problem. However a moth later I noticed low oil pressure with the car wormed up, straight to rennlist I went only to realize it wasn't a faulty gage or something else someone could shed some light on. Upon parking the vehicle and inspection of the oil I noticed a high concentration of shavings in the oil. Did an oil change, similar results. Figured a spun bearing-oil starvation. My heart sank again after roughly 3 months of ownership. For the following 3 months I was exactly where you are now. Finally realized I had to do something and actively searched for a motor. Found a brand new 3.8l motor sitting at a dealership 2000miles from home. Bought it within a week and had it shipped. Bought a new clutch set and started the transformation. Project was complete and running within two weeks. Purchased conversion software from FVD had it installed and am now in tuning stage to get it to perform optimally. I was in love once again. Project price $ 15000+, end result is a faster more capable car with gobs more torque and a brand new motor. You're not alone, it's unfortunate and shouldn't have happened, but it did. I wish you the best of luck and hopefully a happy ending much like mine. Edic4s P.S. I purchased my car though Ebay as well!

Ediec4s, Nice story but many of us do not have the spare 15-20K for new engines, being able to afford the maintenance on these cars is not a problem but losing an engine is way beyond that. It's really sucks that after many years of ownership I never worried about an engine failures until moving to the "modern" 986S and now the 996. I think Porsche has really let down its customers big time.

Marc Trust me when I say I didn't have 15k sitting around, as a matter of fact it's sittin on my credit card. But the alternative would have been for the car to sit without a motor? Now who would want to do that to a Porsche? I was fortunate to have tools, some mechanical ability and a 1800sq' shop in my yard otherwise my bill would have been well over 20k. I guess what I was trying to say in my previous post is that as bad as the situation is for UFO, something really good can come of something really bad. Edic4s

Sadly the M96 and all derivatives are just not as robust as other Porsche engines. The transmissions are equally concerning, as they are "non-serviceable" with little or no replacement parts available.

Hey UFO, I totally understand your position and know how bad that sucks. As a cheapskate and bottom-feeder I have never owned a single car with a warranty. But I never really worried about it since most repairs would be a few hundred or at most a couple of thousand dollars. The Porsche is certainly different in that respect. Even at $10-12K for an engine replacement that is NO joke on a car that's only worth $25-35k. I enjoy the hell out of driving it (daily driver) but when friends ask about buying one I usually try to talk them out of it. It's just not a good car for most people, especially if you're used to Japanese levels of reliability. I've owned this one almost 4 years now and if the engine goes now it will be just another part of the love-hate nature of Porsche ownership. But if the engine had grenaded within the first 6 months I would have been seriously pissed off and disappointed. My independent has quoted around $10k for a new/reman engine replacement with install ....and while that's not pocket change I'm confident you can find something better than $15-20k. Good luck, it's a sucky situation all around.

always look on the bright side of life

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They are and have been 100% serviceable. Replacement parts are available from any Porsche dealership! At one time PAG had a warranty agreement with the OEM and so all transmissions were on replacement only basis but when that period ended, parts were made available.

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If the oil is clean and coolant clear as you stated this might just be a timing problem. If it tries to start but wont run it sounds like a spark at the inapropriate moment (late/ early) Smoke and fuel smell from unused combustion. Easy to fix even if the timing chain jumped a tooth. My 62' vett did what you discribe and it was the distributor had vibrated loose and turned out of time. re-timed it and was rockin.

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Remeber that a timing chain is for timing of the engines valves, not the spark. You have problems if you jumped a tooth.

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Exactly. Without a complete teardown we will never know the complete damage but I trust the dealer and the indie I've consulted when they tell me that they have seen this before and that it's not an easy fix. I wish it was a simple spark timing issue. So far, the cheapest I can get a remanufactured engine for is $10,200 with a $2,055 core credit, so a little over $8K if the engine is good (as in the block or heads aren't cracked) and that includes a 2 year Porsche warranty. If I could find someone to put it in for free then I'd be golden and this would be a done deal....

UFO - I'm glad you are making some headway on this process. Hopefully, you can get a decent price on the engine install. Please keep us posted on the progress.

30K mile 996 motor on Pelican right now for $8000 installed... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=379423

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Might be more expense than it is worth. If I remember correctly his car is a 3.4. Refer to this thread http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...howtopic=16945 to see the nightmare that a Renntecher is going through trying to swap a 3.6 into a 3.4 car after his 3.4 engine died.

I didn't have the endurance to read the whole thread but since you bought it at 75k and in the condition you describe, it is unlikely that the owner had the costly 60k service done on it, part of which is changing the timing belt. So you got screwed over because the owner before you was cheap. A word to the wise, if there isn't service documentation, DON'T BUY IT.

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True statement. Here, at least, a lot of 996s were leased by, shall we say, non-enthusiasts. I narrowly dodged this self-same bullet (so far, touch wood).

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Timing belt? Expensive 60K service? WTF are you talking about?

I assume he means the polyrib belt. Don't know about the 60,000 mile service... I live in kilometer land.

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I think he thought he was on the Honda forum.

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Right, that's what I was thinking! LOL!!

I think you broke your timing chain/belt bro, or jumped a tooth or two. I'm thinking it wasn't replaced at the required mileage. Tries to start but won't run? Thats a spark at the wrong time Late/Early. Smoke and the smell of unburnt fuel. Thats no spark when your piston is at top dead center and non combusted fuel and air smoke show. I hope that the rods and valves did not come down at a very unpleasant moment when a piston or two was coming up.(timing) At any rate if that the case of my diagnosis you won't need a new engine, just a rebuild. Only a couple of cylinders should be effected unless you dogged it home in that condition. You didn't force if home did you. Brew

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Also, Bro don't get to stressed about the mechanical thing either, These cars have several electronic mods that can fail, all cars do. It could be something as simple as the distributor mod. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Brew

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???

Wow, who want to handle this one? Oh, all right. 1- Porsche 996s do not have timing belts. 2- There is no "replacement at the required mileage" for the chain 3- Porsches do not have rods 4- Timing is set by the computer 5- There is no distrubutor

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My 996 came with most of the service documented, but I only cared about the last service visit before I bought it, which included the words "Reman engine install".

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All engines have a timing mechanism for spark, and a valve train dependent on timing. All engines have to distribute the spark whether it is mecanical or computorised. Regardless of how the thing is made. Belts, chains who gives a rats ****. The point is if this isn't in sinc it won't run. Duh? The fact remains and I can't wait to find out the problem, If you ain't gettin spark at top dead center the engine is going to stumble. Come on, look past my lack of knowlege of how a Porches engine is made and try and see the over all cause of lack of a smooth running motor. Oh I know, throw some money at it and it will go away. Please

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I know the thread is long, but if you took the time to read it you will notice that the car has been to the dealer and an Indy. I think they would have noticed if the problem was a minor adjustment. The whole issue is that UFO is faced with losing a lot of money. We are trying to be helpful to him here, not make him feel worse with pedestrian comments.

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I agree completely, My comments if you read my past ,was to offer help reguarding my past experience with engines, Porsche or not, and a general explanation relating to the feedback offered by UF007 of how an engine works and a possible answer to the problem he is having. Pedestrian? Buzz off. Go get a manicure and leave the engine work to real men.

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Now you are just a moron.

Yawn... Got snow

It's been a month since I've even seen the car and the car has spent around 1/4 of the time I owned it actually on the road and about half of it at the dealership. She is still sat at the dealership. I head home to England for a little while on the 18th and will be back for the new year so it will be at least 2008 until I see the car again. The dealership's being cool with me and they're OK with the car being sat there until I decide what to do with it. They're not even charging me for storage! In fact, the bill so far from the dealership has been $100 and that was just to cover the tow. They didn't charge me a diagnostics or labour fee. They (Momentum Porsche) have been very cool with me and I really appreciate that. I've been trying to sell the car but that isn't working out for me. Most I have been offered so far is $10K and considering I just paid almost 3 times that for the car it's obviously not an option. If I replace the motor then I should have bought an '04 C2 or '00 Turbo for the same price. With a new engine I'll probably own THE most expensive '01 C4 on the planet. Doesn't seem sensible to do that. Then again, it doesn't seem sensible to **** $20K down the tubes and offload the car 'as is.' I don't think buying a '01 C4 sight unseen will go down in the history books as being a sensible decision either. Why the hell am I telling you people this? No idea. Just rambling. Still pissed about the whole shebang. This was supposed to be something special: my first Porsche. Even if the car looked a million bucks and ran like a champ it's still left a sour taste in my mouth and the car is tainted. Sounds immature, I know, but I can't help it. I often think that I need bad luck in my life because without it I wouldn't have any luck at all. Like I said: just rambling. Looking forward to seeing my family again. I have a niece and nephew who are 2 and 4 respectively and I've only ever seen them once. Now, that's the stuff I should sweat and worry about; not a stupid car.

Certainly an unfortunate first Porsche experience to be certain. The only thing I could add would be, if you drop a new engine in the car at least you'll have the peace of mind of a two year warranty - you wont get that on an 01. Also, since this will be "your" engine you'll know the history, do the maintenance and feel like you have a new car. JMTC

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the most financially sound decision is to fix the car and drive it. The only way you can get any value out of it is by putting miles on it, deferring a future purchase and amortizing your loss over time. Really. Besides the fact that you'll love the car, it will reduce your financial loss. The story will be that you ended up paying too much for the car, but drove it for a few years and enjoyed it. That's way better than kissing off twenty large now AND buying a replacement. Take out of the equation the ego bruising and the anxiety about future failures, and the way forward is pretty clear to me. And your final comments are right: "The engine blew up in my Porsche" doesn't get you very far up the list of humans with problems in this world. Enjoy your family. And your car.

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+1 Tough story for sure. I find making the tough decisions as quick as possible, then focusing on the good things in your life, as you stated, is the correct path. The more you let this drag, the more it will rub ya. Do what you have to financially and get the engine in, a few months will go by and you'll start to feel better about the car, even if you decide to sell it once fixed. Sorry for your situation.

I also sunk a large unexpencted chunk of cash into my car immediately after buying it. Even with a new engine, I was a little unsure about its reliability during the first few weeks. However, the scar has healed quickly and is little more than a memory of the dip in my bank account now. Do like I did. Get if fixed and drive it. If you don't rekindle your love, sell it with a new engine - you'll recover more money that way. Stefan

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You'll never get any money out of it selling it w/o an engine. If it really sours you to look at it, just stuff a new engine in it and sell it right away (you could probably get a little more than you paid that way). On the other hand, you could snap up the 3.8 that is for sale on the 997 board and build the worlds best '01 C4. Good Luck..

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You know, in a big city such as Houston you would think there would be at least 1 person willing to undertake the task of putting a 3.8 into a 3.4 equipped car. If they exist then I couldn't find them. However, from my research it seems the extra cost of parts and labour would have made the final figure close to my original engine quote which I just can't afford. I got quite excited at the prospect of having a 3.8 but, sadly, it just isn't going to happen. I actually went to the tax office this week and registered the car so it's at least legal in the State of Texas now. It's kind of odd that I have the plates here with me, but not the car. I only registered it because it's going to have to sit on the street outside my place for a while because I'm sure the Porsche dealership will get tired of storing it for me soon.

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Unfortunately, the sensible decision and the decision I make are generally so far apart it isn't even funny. I'm 37 years old and my Dad is still amazed I made it this far. If I was sensible I would have never bought the car in the first place, or at least flown to NY to check it out first. I hear what you're saying and agree 100% but.... I haven't been home in 2 years and can't wait. After leaving my wife I spent last Christmas all alone and that kinda sucked so I'll put an end to this ****ty year by surrounding myself with the ones I love the most .

I don't know if this will make you feel better, but the whole value of my 02 996 C4S is in a loan I made. Unless I become incapable of working, I refuse to worry about the numbers if i love and want to enjoy and drive my 911. Would you mind saying what you do for a living? John

Maybe St. Nick will find a suitable engine replacement for you by the time you return to the states?!Hope it works out for you soon.

UFO007, Thanks for keeping us posted on your journey dispite of all the negative posts you have received. First I want to say that I am very sorry to hear about your bad experiences with your first Porsche, honestly Porsches are well built cars, even the 996. As a long term 993 owner (Most all the 993 owners dogs the 996) but after I bought my 996 my perception changed about the 996. Now I don't even drive the 993 anymore, simply because technically the 996 is a better car! 2nd please understand that any car owning experience is financially draining, it is not an investment. It is the fun per dollar factor that you are justifying, that's all. Cars can be just a transportation or entertainment. So it is depending on how much you are willing to pay for that entertainment. As it is the same about everything else in your life. 3rd, look at this bad experience as a chance to have a great story to tell later in your life. Cherrish this experience regardless how financially painfull it is, it is an opportunity. Afterall, what makes you and your life interesting is how many interesting stories you have to tell. With all that said, I am currently looking to buy a $100k Ferrari. Now tell me, how much financial sense does that make? NONE! But just an entertainment that I am willing to pay for. Good luck with everything! Enjoy life as much as you can afford, and cheerish everything as great stories to tell.

This story is why I decided to spend the extra money to get a CPO car. I thought long and hard about all the 996 horror stories (RMS, intermediate shaft, etc.) before I bought my 40th Anniversary. I almost went back to a 993 and then I remembered all the reading I have done over the years about 911's and their problems. All Porsches have had issues: 1970's models were notorious for severe engine issues. The SC's had various issues...clutches, exploding air boxes, cam tensioners, etc. The 964's had engine seal issues 993's have the valve guide wear problems and clogged air passages In short, virtually every 911 has had an issue of some sort. My 996 is fast (deceptively so), comfortable, great looking, and fun. I believe you will find the same thing once you get your car on the road. As I go through my mid-life crises (not just one crisis but several ), I realize that it's not the things I've done that I will regret but the things I haven't done. Put in the "new" engine and drive the car. Make some memories. You never know when your fortunes will change (up or down). The one thing that is certain is that you will never walk down this same path again. $10-15K is a lot of money, but, I've made mistakes with zeroes on the end before and will make them again. I'm sure you have too. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Robin...you and I must think alike! I was typing my response when you were posting yours!

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That's great!! I think that's what happens when you grow older, and starting to loose good friends and people you love around you.... I think back and try to analyze every decision I made in my life and try to make sense out of it. In the end I decided to buy a Ferrari!!!! LOL! But of course not giving up on the Porsches... $10k service for a Ferrari is breakfast.

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Indeed! My father died at the age of 48 when I was 24 years old and I only recently realized how much I really need and miss him.

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I mess around with computers. I guess you could call me a glorified technical support guy as I'm part of a team that provides network and desktop support to 600 or so people throughout the country. I used to be a system admin but took a 'lesser' job because my old one interfered with my personal life and made me miserable.

UFO, You have had a ton of responses and advice to try and help you out. A testament of the solid people in this forum. We have all gone through ups and downs in life and I am sure this is not the low point for yours. Turning a negative event into a positive is the challenge when going through a down cycle. I would suggest you get a better engine than stock (as already mentioned) even if it takes you time. The goal is to come out with a better car than you bought. At this point the pain of the blown engine will quickly fade. If this is not acceptable than the second choice is simple. Cut your loss and move on. The financial impact does hurt but does not have a long term impact in your life. Good health is a blessing and will not last forever. The bottom line of your problem is money, that IS the good news, you can do something about that. Count your blessings. Good luck

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All I can say is wow. I owned a 1968 911 in my early 20's. When I sold it I promised myself that "someday" I'd have another. Well, 30 years went by and after watching my father's health deteriorate to the point where he is in a nursing home, then watching how the cash he stashed from a lifetime of self-denial and frugality was drained like from a firehose, I looked at my own life and asked myself how much joy my finances really brought me. So, I decided to live now, and not keep holding out for the "someday when". And now to my wife's dismay, my standard answer when asked how I like my Porsche is "best decision I EVER made". And no, I am not independentaly wealthy, I work my butt off and earn every cent I have. Would a $10k repair bill upset my apple cart? Absolutely. But it wouldn't be the first or last time I got through stuff.

Sounds like a healthy outlook to me. Enjoy today.....and drive that 911.

for 20k just buy another 996 that has front end wreck or something, then swap it yourself. i have a few weeks of school left before i graduate, and 996's look mighty tempting for the money

You own the car, if you look at what it's worth now and what it would cost to repair, it's still worth replacing the engine with the Porsche reman unit and drive it for few more years. Then the total cost is not that bad. The next owner will know that the engine has been replaced with the Porsche updated reman unit and resale value will be higher. Please note that the reman engines do not come with the flywheel, clutch and serpentine belt so check all the parts and all the seals, gaskets, etc required are on your estimate. We usually also replace the coolant tank, level sensor, cap, coolant hose and line (from tank to heater pipe) and other items to the latest part numbers as needed with engine changes.

Sorry to bump an old post but this is a bit of a follow-up so I didn't want to create a new thread. I guess the dealership got tired of the car being there. I can't blame them as it's been there for 6 weeks or so.... I'd almost forgot what it looked like. Anyway, the car's home now: for how long I don't know. Thought you might like to see a quick vid of what it sounds like on startup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPi3V4NSuDg

so is it fixed? Your comments suggest that there's still an issue.

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They replaced the engine while I was sunning myself in dear old Blighty. No issues as yet other than a horrible grinding sound about 1/4 mile outside the dealership. There was a wrench embedded in the plastic undertray that was dragging on the ground.... Let's hope that's the only thing they left in there and that they tightened the bolt first.

Am I also missing something here Here's the 1st post in this thread as a reminder: Porsche owner for less than a month. 75K on a '01 C4. Car had been checked over but no compression test was run. Car died, won't start, white smoke coming from driver exhaust pipe. Car does turn over. Oil is clean and coolant is clear. My Porsche owning experience has not been a happy one. So now it starts, I didn't see any white smoke as expressed during the vid...so what is the problem again with your car ???

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It's like a surprise, except not as interesting, exciting, or surprising. Sorry, my dry & sarcastic humour really isn't funny 99% of the time. I had the engine replaced.

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I'm glad you explained. I thought I was a moron, because that engine sounds perfectly good. (Well, I may still be a moron, but that post wasn't proof.)

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Nice and my post was being written at the time you did the one above it saying that you had the engine replaced. So congratulations and now stop your whining (J/K)

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Good luck - let's hope that the wrench was the only issue. Commiserations on "sunning" yourself in Blighty at this time of year... hardly much sun and brass monkeys come to mind. Where were you?

Great news, and it sounds great.

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I was in Manchester (well, a town called Sale to be exact) with my parents. It's where I grew up. Amazing how so much changes yet it still stays the same (cold and wet). They just opened up a Krispy Kreme near the Trafford center; the country's definitely going to **** . But, I got to see my 2 and 4 year old Niece and Nephew for the second time in their lives. It's kind of sad that I have, so far, watched them grow up via pictures e-mailed to me by my sister. For anybody interested: the stealership did the swap for me. IIRC (without going back through the thread) their initial quote was $17Kish. We went back and forth a few times and my final OTD was $12,318.26. So, not cheap by any means but a lot better than the initial price. Chase and BofA now love me.

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Ahh, Manchester, so much to answer for... Not sure it makes much difference what time of you you visit, it's still going to be wet. I know what you mean about the kids... there are some I've never met, some that grew up in my absence and are on their own. Sadly the only thing is to get used to it.

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My Dad had his drive replaced a few years back. They sealed it with silicone or something and needed a few dry days to do so. It took 6 months until it was completed . I love Manchester to death but was also ready to leave when my time was up.

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Then the big question is...are you a Red Devil or Blue ??? (u can tell who I support from my avatar)

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Spent many a rainy Saturday afternoon stood (shows how long ago that was) in The Stretford End watching the Red Devils play. I have been to Anfield on a few occasions and can't remember a single time where we didn't have to dodge running battles in the car park to get to the car. As an aside: First time I ever visited Maine Road (Manchester City's old ground) we parked on a side street and some kid of 10 or 11 approached us. "I'll look after your car for a quid mate." I looked around at the empty of people street and asked, "Who's going to mess with my car?" He smiled a big smile and replied, "Me." I paid him....

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Nice. I can tell you without a doubt I was not one of them chasing you out of Anfield, as we always took the train from Banbury to watch LFC play at home, so it was off to the train station right after the matches. Only a quid....that was a long time ago then. mate it's good to know more brit's are on this forum, and yes Wayne I know you are too.

Gotta love it - a scouser and a mancunian talking fooball, who would have guessed.

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There are actually quite a lot of us, you just can't hear the accents over the internet.

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And here I am drinking pints of Newcastle But we all know the the Hammers beat-up on ManU today and Liverpool will defeat ManC tomorrow. The race for the prem title is going to be a good one

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Gotta admit that I've not kept up with Soccer.... I'm now a football fan. My team are playing in a little while... gotta see New England kick the pants off of the Giants.

Is the wrench a Snap-On? Did you get to keep it? Congrats on getting the new engine installed! Now go and enjoy the car!!

UFO - That is great news that you got her fixed and even better news that is was $12K instead of $17K! You don't seem very excited to have her back, and in some ways, I don't blame you. I really hope that you try to forget that the "$12K issue" ever happened and try to look at the car with fresh eyes. You may surprise yourself and become passionate about it. I certainly hope so because they really are great cars! Mine will be gone by the end of May (lease end date) if not sooner. I don't really want to sell it or let it go back to the lease company, but my situation is such that it must go. The 996 has been the most enjoyable car I have ever owned and it has been good for my soul, literally.

Congrats on the new motor. Been watching this thread since the start. Having my engine let go I know well the emotions, I went through them all. After it was fixed back on the road broken in, the love afair started all over... even got the mod bug..... Enjoy,

Hey UFO, have you had a chance to put on any miles with the new engine and if so do you like the car again?