Had PPI done: Damn RMS!

at Champion. Mostly minor issues, but a couple interesting things: 1. I ran the VIN at my local dealer, and gave me a blow by blow of everything on Porsche's database, including a rundown of all warranty work. I got the nitty gritty details of everything done to the car, including fixing the RMS when the car had 7200 miles. When I asked about what they saw on the database, he said 'nothing out of the ordinary'. When I asked about the RMS repair at 7200, he said 'cannot see that level of detail'. Meanwhile, my local dealer read all the details of the service work. What gives? It would seem that the PPI *that I paid for* ended up with less information than a free database query from my local dealer. 2. As an aside, Champion mentioned that the RMS was leaking again, and they replaced it today. Am I doomed for a life of RMS failures? I started reading the big RMS thread, but the root cause of the RMS failure wasn't clear to me. Do we know for a certainty what keeps causing the leakage? 3. The car has Champion Motorsport's exhaust. Anybody have good/bad feedback on the unit?

OK folks this is yet another RMS thread in disguise. I will probably get the usual flame from the usual mob but for the record I will try to make it clear to everyone what it means to have an RMS problem in these cars. I will open up a new thread for this. Jeff for your interest, most RMS replacements are done and that's the end of the story. At least for now. The cars are not old enough to see what lies ahead for us all. My car is on its 5th RMS. I hope you are not doomed with RMS failures as I am.

You got that PPI from your yellow C4S?

No, seriously, I'm not trying to get the RMS flames burning bright again. As part of my inquiry, the Readers Digest version of the RMS thing would be appreciated. But, if it is too inflammatory, I'll return to the archives and study, and read your new thread. THanks.

Well, actually I was about to start a new thread to explain it all but then I thought there is no point. It's been discussed so often it's even starting to bore me I will hopefully (soon) be putting up the RMS Club web page and this will have all the info you require. Stay tuned.

Jeff, Simply put, the RMS is is the seal around a bearing that's around the shaft that goes to the tranny, you can see it above in scouser's sig (bearing has the holes in it). For some reason, the seal housing isn't perfectly round, and so depending on how out of round it is, the seal will fail eventually as the shaft/bearing spins. They have a machine that checks the tolerance. If you're out of tolerance, they give you a new engine, if you're not out of tolerance, they just change the seal. But apparently if you're close to the tolerance, they have to change the seal...over...and over...and over....right Bernie? The fact that the car already has an RMS is not good thing, but it also doesn't mean that it'll be continual. They'll always replace it under warranty, and after the warranty its like $600. If you have a good relationship with your local dealer, they may opt to replace the engine (under warr) if its close enough to the tolerance. Some dealers are better about it than others...

Thanks. Good tutorial. Now, I'm worried though. 2 RMS's in 30k miles. Sounds like an annual pilgramage to a shop.

Raidentech.com, I sent you a PM.

Are folks sure it's the housing? A blurb from a random website: Running the engine low on oil can cause the rear main seal to become dry, and a crack or tear in the rubber can occur. This should be another good reason to change your engine oil regularly and use a good quality oil. The crankshaft can also become out-of-balance due to an internal engine problem, and wear or "ride" on the lip of the seal in an asymmetrical pattern. The seal can also leak due to old age, or from an extended vehicle storage period that allows the seal to dry out and crack. EDIT: Ok, read the RMS thread here . Completely thinking that I should back out of the deal and try to get my deposit back. RMS's are common failure points in many cars, but this particular one seems to have had two in 30k miles. The car was a daily driver. The seal never had the opportunity to dry out. This leaves unnatural/extraordinary crank rotational movement or misalignment. How am I to think that the problem will magically go away, after two RMS' in two years? An M3 instead? Christ, just after I had finally decided on a 996.

You still have a couple of options: How about a 993-this car has no RMS issues and ther are some nice ones out there. Or, if you have a few more $$, pick up an older model 996 TT. This is a completely different engine and has no RMS issues either. Don't give up on the idea of a Porsche. If it is really what you want and you get something else, everytime you see one you will be wondering if you should have gotten a different one.

OK, I took a deep breath. A 996TT or a 996 GT3 is within reason for me, but I'll have to wait until the end of the year. I suppose I can wait, but, now, I remain really very disappointed. As for a 993, while they are beautiful, I contend that technology marches on. I'd have to have a 996 even though I'm likely in the minority.

How about going to one of the sites where people are trying to get out of their leases early. Maybe find one that's still under warranty and has 6-12 months left. You can negotiate a deal, get a Porsche 996 for the short term, and then find a TT or GT3. Just a thought...

CLL, That sounds great. Swapalease has those deals. From the RMS thread: "If you look at the MY96 engine, the biggest difference from the previous are waterways and main bearing housings. The main bearings are encased in iron casings that are bolted to the aluminum block. PAG says the advantage of doing that is to have less of a biomass differential (during high heat) between a revolving friction producing crank and the bearings. Steel &aluminum have different volumes/rates of expansion/contraction. Additionally, PAG says it quieter (was there slap in the 911s includes TTs). The trouble may lie in the bearing casing attachments. The 997 block has been redesigned. I hope they cured the problem. Your TT 996 is the old block. No RMS." ---------------------------- Does the GT3 share the same block as the 3.4/3.6l 996'S? Does it suffer the same fate?

I would pass with two RMS failures. Sounds like a potential headache or heartache.

Thanks Doug. The not so funny thing, is that if I didn't have a local dealer dig up the full report and share it with me, I would have never known about the first RMS. Champion only shared the current (second) RMS fix as an afterthought, only after pinging the service guy pretty hard on all sorts of issues. If the current owner of the car had it inspected prior to putting it up for sale, it would have been fixed before the PPI and I'd be none the wiser. This means to me that the majority of 'pre owned' 996s buyers will never know of their car's RMS history. Disturbing.

Warranty work is in the Porsche computer system and any dealer via a VIN can see it. Maintenance work is not, and only the dealer(s) performing the work can pull up the info. Some dealers will not give out the info to someone who is not the owner, without the owners consent. Some dealers will not even print out the info for a sole owner of a car. So I have been told.

My experience is that my dealer will acess warranty work on cars I have looked at if I give him a Vin #. May just depend on dealer relationship. Some dealers may not want to step on the toes of other dealers, but it seems if they are doing the PPI and the info is requested, they just make it available. The first question to ask is if there has been any RMS work. If they say no, then maybe you ahve recourse. If they say they don't know, you can say either find out or I won't buy the car. Just a thought. I still don't think RMS is as prevelant as it may seem on thee boards, but what do I know. That is just the impression I have gotten from speaking to dealers. they seemed a little in the dark about it more than they seemed evassive.

I was considering the purchase of a two-owner '99 996 and I was able to get the service histroy of the car from both Porsche dealers who had serviced it, one on each coast. The seller, here on the West Coast, did not have any service records but told me where he had the car serviced. I called them and they told me what they had done to it. PCNA told me which dealership originally sold the car. I called that dealership (on the East Coast) and they also gave me the full servce history.

Hi. Here's the vehicle Frayed was talking about http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...482951137&rd=1 Ya, the price of the car ticked me off. I was like how come so cheap, and other people on ebay are selling it for around 75k. Also, it is a one owner car, it can't be so cheap. It's nice and clean on the picture, like a brand new car. Then I saw that it's a rental company selling it. I said forget it, people screw around with rental cars. In addition, they posted the carfax report. I saw the report showing it got registered by a company. Guess I know who that company was, and what that car was used for without even asking the seller. So how much was the PPI? Did you go bring it to a Porsche dealer? Ok, I will talk to you later. Hope we can have a Porsche soon. Now after this, I'm thinking about getting a turbo instead. Latez

"The trouble may lie in the bearing casing attachments. The 997 block has been redesigned. I hope they cured the problem." Frayed - I hope this is the case. But I wonder if the "redesign" was done to the 3.6 engine as well as the 3.8 in the S version.

I consider myself fairly rational, but. . . . Due to the instrinsic design flaw in this family of engines, no permanent fix and the complete lack of information form Porsche, my confidence in the 996s is completely eroded. Add to that, the disparate treatment I've received from the dealers (there's more to the story, but I won't go into it on a public board), I'm left completely soured and not ready to take on the task of locating an RMS-free 996. How many times will I have to get my hopes up, only to find out it's got the plague? -------------------- Well, like suggested above, I could go buy a TT. This will come off as incredulous to some of you, but I don't want a turbo. I want the throttle response and reliability of a n/a Pcar, both of which lend to a great track performance. I also will use the car as a daily driver, and don't need the blistering performance in a day to day slog through rushour car. What does that leave me with? A 993 with a dated chassis? No thanks. Take a chance on the 997, and buy a German automaker's first production run of a new model ? That doesn't sound very wise. I was really excited to pull the trigger and move into a Pcar after driving BMWs for the last 10 years. I work damn hard for my money, had the ability to buy the particular C4S in cash, which was supposed to represent to me something that is completely mine. . . not my wife's, kids', business', but my toy. *sigh*

JEFF...DON'T lose faith so easily. There are MANY people on this board who have hi mileage 996s that never had an RMS leak. 996s are GREAT cars...there are not many cars out there that can drive TO the track, ON the track and HOME from the track. Excellent daily driver, good in all weather conditions. It just may take a little more time to find YOUR car. I got my baby thru Expomotorcars.com They have a few C4S's (02 in Grey for 67k)... And now you know what question/s to ask first....

Well, that car still has warranty left. You can get it, and play around for 2 more years. To top it off, screw up the engine within the warranty time frame, and get a new engine for the rest of the car's life

This is a good point for someone considering a used car and is concerned about the issue. A few years ago I was talking to a mechanic I know at my local dealer while he had a used Boxster on the lift for a safety check. It was a trade in, so the dealership owned it. It had oil in the usual place. I watched him pull the transmission. It had RMS, intermediate shaft, and oil cooler leaks. They called Porsche for the ok to fix. The car gets fixed, goes on the lot, and is sold.

Have you driven one? You may be pleasantly surprised. I have not driven a 996 but I don't think I need to from all the write ups I read re:993 and 996. Mine is the fabled 993RS and I wouldn't trade it for any 996 (perhaps the GT3RS). Harry

Frayed, I with you on the "disparate treatment I've received from the dealers" whats have Porsche dealers got to hide if their cars are so good...