Have you unknowingly voided your warranty

Did you know that problems caused by racing or modifications aren't covered by warranty. In this week's edition of AutoWeek, they cover a subject that may surprise a lot of enthusiasts: voiding your warranty by racing or modifications. Bob Carlson, Porsche Cars North America, stated that "When it hits the track, all bets are off". The article discusses one incident where Mitsubishi invalidated a guy's warranty because he ran in one autocross event, and the suspicion is that the company may have discovered the guy's participation in the event by using web search systems. Mitsubishi denies using the web to discover those who race. For full story see: http://www.autoweek.com/index.mv

My dealer sponsors Track Days. I guess it all depends on the dealer.

Dr. T: Keep in mind that it's the manufacturer and not the dealer that provides the warranty. The dealer may be willing, but if the manuafacturer says no, you are out of luck. Also, this is from the AutoWeek article: For instance, even though Subaru pops for a one-year SCCA membership for every interested WRX buyer, and in its marketing materials appears to encourage owners to enter their cars in autocross events, the company says autocrossing is racing and racing can void warranty coverage. The WRX/SCCA application form says the SCCA �looks forward to helping you fully experience the benefits of owning this car.� But the form also includes a disclaimer that Subaru�s warranty excludes �damage or failure resulting from participation in competition or racing events.� In other words, participate in racing at your own risk.

Sly, it really all depends on the dealer. If the dealer says it's warranty work, it's warranty work. PCNA/PAG ain't gonna check up on the dealer, unless of course, there's an unusuallly high amount of warranty work from that particular dealer. Check archives. Talk it over with your dealer, and feel him out. If the dealer says tracking voids the warrantee, well, he's not one of the good guys but he would be right. If the dealer says that's what the car is made for and they'll fix it so long as you don't drive into the dealership with racing slicks, roll cage, full fire supprssion system that has just been used, well, then you have a friend for as long as you drive a Porsche. I have a friend for as long as I drive a Porsche . And I intend to drive one for a looooong time.

this is nothing new...

Something to be aware of is that these are not made as race cars - they are 'performance' cars. There is a big difference. Even were this not the case...race cars do not come with a warranty. I used to race motorcycles and any bikes that I owned that were designed as racers had zero warranty. I do agree that an occasional autox or DE should be fine as long as you made sure that the car was well maintained before you started and didn't overrev on a down shift etc. But do you really think it is acceptable to ask for warranty work on something that you have been banging off the rev limiter and running over curbs for hour after hour? Barry

No. They are made as race cars.

Over-revs are two types. Accelerating, and decelerating, both of which are recorded and can be reviewed. Accelerating, the rev limiter protects the engine to a good degree. Decelerating over-rev can blow the engine. A severe decelerating over-rev that blows the engine will void the warrantee, whether you did it in a parking lot, on the street, or on a race track for DE or wheel-to-wheel racing. Moderation is key to a long and happy life. It is reasonable to expect some dealers will honor a warrantee despite the wording if you drive the car for autocross or DE, and it is also reasonable to expect that no dealer will honor a warrantee if you drive the car in an outright race.

A severe decelerating over-rev that blows the engine will void the warrantee, whether you did it in a parking lot, on the street, or on a race track for DE or wheel-to-wheel racing. Legally you are right. My son works as a mechanic for Audi and about two years ago, he told me about an incident where some guy had his S4 towed to the dealership. The car had a blown engine. My son told me that this guy was ranting and raving about Audi's lack of quality and was making all kinds of threats against Audi. My son got a computer readout from the S4 and it indicated that the engine blew at 9200 RPM. Apparently the guy accidentally downshifted to the wrong gear. The dealership contacted Audi, and they decided to honor the warranty in order to promote good customer relations. My son told me that he got a great deal of enjoyment when he showed the computer readout to the crest fallen owner. That owner was one lucky dude, because the repair bill came to over $5K and it was all picked up by Audi.

My car looked just like this when I brought it in (in a trailer) to have the coolant tank replaced under warrenty. That includes full cage, racing seats, removable steering wheel, Motons, mono-*****, etc, etc. No problem. The next time I pushed my luck and asked them to replace a wheel bearing. I guess they have their limits. At least we all had a good laugh.

Patrick, I would beg to differ. I believe the only (recent) production Porsches that would classify as a factory delivered race car (under FIA homologation rules/requirements) would be the Cup Cars (964, 993, 996). Any other production showroom Porsche may make you feel like you're driving a race car, but as houldsworth1 stated, you're driving an exceptionally engineered high performance street car.

Looks like you've found a dealer friend

sly, do you have a link to the article. The link yOu provided was just to the main page. I would be interested in reading it. Many thanks! Dell

I think the point is that it is not a race car... but I doubt that we are going to convince you and if you paid all that money in the belief that it is then - heck - I'm with ya! So, assuming it is a race car, do you think they should honor the warranty if you have been racing it? Barry

do you have a link to the article. The link you provided was just to the main page. I would be interested in reading it. http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?p..._code=02612566

I've never figured out how to copy quotes but regarding the "our cars are race cars thing", no way. It's fun to see all the similarities between a road going 996 and a cup car or a GT3R/RS/RSR but there are also many many differences. A 996 is a street car that's pretty darn good on the track. It's certainly not a race car.

They used to encourage track use. In the early 90's I was invited to PCNA events by my dealer. Derick Bell and Vic Elford were the instructors. The only requirement was a dealer service check-out first- before the event. Until the PCCB fiasco, the policy was pretty much unchanged. My dealer replaced 4 Pirellis under warranty when the belts shifted under track use. I was very explicit about the circumstances (Gingerman) and the problem (vibration over 110 mph). I believe the high price of PCCB replacement caused the rethink. Personally, I'm disappointed. I believe the cars were always represented as trackable. I've now stopped taking my ttX50 to the track. No point in voiding the warranty when parts are so highly priced. Using this logic, a dedicated track car becomes economically sensible. AS

I've read that some posters have really good relationships with their Dealers, and these guys appear to be more race friendly than others. I think it's important to understand however, that it's Porsche and not the Dealer that picks up the costs for a warranty repair. I think small warranty issues will not present problems even if they are caused by racing. Problems could arise however in my opinion if the repairs are costly. The following are two quotes that I took from the AutoWeek article. �When it hits the track, all bets are off,� says Bob Carlson, Porsche Cars of North America spokesman. �Technically, racing damage is not covered under warranty,� says SRT spokesman Dan Bodene. �If a guy autocrosses, submits a problem for warranty and the dealer suspects it is racing related, he�s going to huddle with our technicians to find out. If it is, our dealers are not obligated to cover it under warranty.� The key term is "not obligated." One thing for certain is that no Dealer will want to be left holding the bag for a huge warranty repair.

no

How is this for a thought? Does not Porsche sponsor the "Porsche Driving Experience"? http://www.porschedriving.com/ I count 25 events. That is quite a few track days! Now don't they sell these slightly used "executive" cars to the general public with full remaining factory warranty? So, I would void my warranty by attending an occasional autocross or track day event in order to become a better (safer) driver? We are all obsessive about the care and maintenance of our cars because we paid for them. How do you think the fully warranted "executive" PDE cars are treated? Did I miss something?

I can only begin to imagine the reaction if you mentioned this in Weissach. And to think, Norbert Singer spent an entire career devoted to a few motor sports parts.

My dealer is one of the main tech inspection stations for our PCA DEs, they have never said anything even slightly negative about tracking the car. Track days and sports cars go hand in hand, as long as you're not abusing the car the warranty should not be voided IMO. For the record I'm off warranty so I don't really care, but if I still had the warranty I would not expect them to cover wear and tear items which are my responsibility.

mim3, yep the situation with the "executive" cars is interesting indeed, eh? i've been to both the PDE and master's PDE and can tell you those cars are driven. pretty much every mile they see while in PDE possession are the kind specifically being discussed in this thread.

A very valid and well thought out argument...but, yes you did miss something. If you are the one writing/honoring the warranty you can make up your own mind on whether something that would normally invalidate it applies. Since the chances of a problem are probably low and the extra money they get for having a warrantied car is probably significant... Unfortunate but probably true. As the saying goes - remember the golden rule...the man with the gold makes the rules.

Barrier in the Bellevue WA area is very track/DE friendly. Not only do they run an annual 4-day track event, but they replaced two wheel bearings, two O2 sensors and fixed an RMS leak, all under warranty, knowing that I tracked the snot out of my previous Boxster S!