Buying my first 996

Hi All I have been lurking here for a while and by the looks of it, this is apparently the place to be concerning anything relating to Porsche. As the title reads, I'm going to get my self a Porsche 996. It's a bit of a treat as I have never owed a car before (and I'm born early 1970's) and the reason being I have always lived in city centers and haven't needed one. Now I have the opportunity (both financially and location wise) to get the car I always wanted since early childhood. I borrowed my cousins 911 (a 3.0SC from 1976) for a weekend in the early 90's and will never forget the smile I had on my face when I turned the key for the very first time and heard the engine turning behind me. It was an experience that has stayed with me ever since and I promised myself to own one myself one day and this day is coming up when I have found the right car at the right price within the next 3-4 months. So, my taste has changed since the air-cooled engines were in production and my other half is ok with me getting a 911 as long as it is not too noisy (i.e. engine sounds) and smells of oil, rubber and all the other lovely smells the 3.0SC I drove back then produced as extra's. What am I looking for? Well my short list is down to a 996 3.6L preferably a C4 (it doesn't snow much where I currently live in Switzerland but nice to have extra stability, and winter tires is the law here) and either a Cab or Coupe. I have found two (one coupe and one cab) in the same price range I want to pay both with 110'000 to 132'000 km (or 68'750 - 82'500 miles) and from 2002/2003. They both look very clean with full service history and 12 months warranty and the Cab has a hardtop as well. Oh and both are with automatic transmission. Both the internal and external colour is what I want and the seats are not the saggy looking ones but the ones that looks like they have been enforced with lines through the bottom part (if it makes sense?). The PCM unit doesn't make a difference to me but I think one has one the other not. In the meanwhile an early 2001 996 Turbo has popped up with a little higher price tag but with 145'000 km on the clock (or 91'250 miles) and manual shift. There's also a 2002 C4S with about 110'000km (68'750 miles) also manual shift with service book and all which looks very clean in deed, with the same price tag as the turbo. Basically, I'm a bit lost of what to go for tbh and am hoping to get some help from the experts in here How am I going to use the car? 1. Not any racing days for me (either on or off the track), 2. Might go on long trips during the summer (around 3'000 miles), up through Germany to my home country in the Nordics . 3. Maybe drive to work once in a while (1 hour 30 min each way) on motorways. 4. Sunday drives around the country, and 5. During the winter maybe once or twice a week to the local skiing slopes (roads are always spotless clean for snow in the area)... So if I get a cab, the hardtop is going to be on during the winter months with a ski rack OR I might not be driving during the winter at all. One thing, It seems like people take very good care of their belongings in this country in general and cars look more or less spotless both inside/out. I know it can be superficial but never the less, the 996 is not "cheap" and I could imagine there's a bigger chance that a 996 is better looked after than a cheaper mass produced car... Still, I'm getting the car checked before purchasing. I know it costs money to own a 996 and I have this in my calculations but of course I want to keep it down as much as possible. I'm buying the car because I love Porsche (and I know I'm going to look after the car as it was a child) and would like to get some input what you may think/tips etc? Cheerio, Frank

at that vintage you must find similar near you: http://www.porscheinspections.com/po...nspections.php

In my view (having owned 7 Porsches), a manual transmission enhances the pleasure of driving these cars.

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Hi VGM911 , You're not the first one who's told me that , so my question is: How long (on average) would you say the clutch lasts before it needs to be changed? How does this compare to the Automatic? I know it depends on how the car is driven but just looking for a ball park figure... Cheers

If it's strictly for pleasure driving, I'd go for the cab. But that's just me.

I'd estimate the clutch life at 30K to 55K miles. Depends on how it's driven.

My 911 had 84,000 miles on the original clutch.

Great, thanks for the info... That means that cars I have an eye on might need a change soon, unless it has been done earlier.. What about tiptronics?

As Frisbee said, the useful life of any wear and tear item depends, in large part, on how it's used. Highway driving, for example, is less stressful on the clutch than stop and go driving. If you're asking about tiptronic, I suppose the same principle applies; however, I have no direct experience with tiptronic.

Frank: You're not going to get much love here for the tiptronic; but, I'll give you the opposing viewpoint. I came from the air-cooled 911 manual transmission world & have driven those 100s of thousands of miles everywhere from Southern California to the Swiss Alps. But, my current Porsche is an '04 C2 Tiptronic and I think it is phenomenal. The transmission is reputed to be (and feels) robust with very low failure rate. It shifts very crisp and the automatic can be overridden anytime with the buttons without touching the shifter. It's all very subjective and a question of personal preference, but based on your described driving plans, I definitely would not count it out. There was a tiptronic manufacturer change that has been discussed fairly extensively, you might take a look at that as well in connection with cars you consider. Good luck with your search and purchase.

Good luck in your search. Shopping for a Porsche is a luxury that few people ever experience. I've got a manual transmission, and I prefer that. I'm currently at 113,500 miles on my C4S, and I'm on the second clutch.

I would go with the turbo. Stronger engine design, incredible power. Downside is more cost if you break it. Although not that much more than any Porsche if you don't DIY.

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Frank996 wants 4wd so yes a turbo is certainly an option. Turbo don't feel as good as 2wd on the track but the OP will never track it. whatever you buy get a leakdown and compression test done and ask the owner how much oil it burns; also listen to the transmission for any funny humming noises that increase as you go through gears or even present themselves when off throttle... 85,000 is high mileage in my opinion... look for something with 50,000 max

Tbred911 and all others, thanks a million for the advice/views. Can't buy this for money really so double thumbs up and highly appreciated for sure. One thing I'm not happy about concerning the Turbo is the fixed spoiler which in my eyes are not very nice looking so as you may have guessed I'm more to the sleeker looking "standard" C2 or C4. Yes, a C2 (also 2002, 3.6L) has sneaked itself onto the short list at a good price, pre-owned by a pensioner with 100'000 KM on the clock (62'500 Miles) and tiptronic. It ticks all the boxes concerning interior and exterior colour, seats etc but the only reserve I have is that it is a C2 and not C4 (can't give any specific reason why other than the AWD VS RWD). Will the PSM have any impact when driving in snow, meaning it will stay as stable (driving as one should in light snow conditions) as any other car with winter tires (which again is the law in this part of the world) would. I'm from the Nordics so used to winter conditions, but have always driven cars with front wheel drive. Having a rear drive car with the engine even further back is new territory for me. Any advise on the C2 v C4?

Yes, PSM is the "hi tech" version of a limited slip, in snow or slippery conditions. PSM was on my must have list when I was looking for my manual '02 996 coupe, 4 years ago. Obviously not as sure footed in snow as the all wheel drive ones, but with winter tires the difference will be relativiely small, as neither car does well in deep snow at all due to the clearance, but the rear engine biases traction over the real tires rather well. As an older driver (54 now), I prefer the relatively simpler, more traditional and less flashy lines with the retractable spoiler myself, but I am in the minority, I'm sure.

Hi perryinva , Thanks for your feedback. So basically, the difference between the C4 and C2 both with winter tires will (more or less) behave the same way on well prepared winter roads?

Frank996. Tough choice(s), eh? lol. If I might make a recommendation for you, I would suggest a C4. Why, if you are a skier, it will be much better in the winter on the way to the slopes, regardless of whether or not the C2 has snow tires. If you intend to take your car through the Alps, and experice driving throught some of those amazing European mountain passes that we see in pictures and videos, the the C4 has better traction and if you like to row the gears, you will simply love the 6 speed. However, if you would like your "other half" to enjoy the same experience, consider their ability to drive a manual, depending on that answer, that may help you to decide which transmission to zero in on. I would think that a Cab with a hard top could pretty much seal the deal, especially if you have a garage to store the hard top in the winter, this way you get the best of all worlds. Top down crusing in the Srping/Summer/Fall and protection and mountable ski rack for the winter. It is truly about having it all and the whole epxerince ,once you decide on your criterion...why limit it? And, as has been mentioned in here numerous times by many others, while mileage is the "key factor" this is only to a certain extent.You need to get a PPI done and find a vehicle where you can got the most information about how it has been maintained...and make sure that you have some $$$$ left over to hedge against and pay for unexpected repairs....cuz it does happen. Just my .02 Enjoy and GL in the hunt.....oh yeah, pics, please once she's in your stable.

Thanks Country911 . I think you have moved me closer to a decision. I'm now very much leaning towards a C4 cab (with Hard top) and as you say getting the best of both worlds. We have long warm summers and long enough winters for skiing (where I live anyway), and I'm lucky enough to have both indoor parking and an area to keep the hard top during the summer periods. I'm still a bit uncertain about manual/tiptronic shift tbh. I can see the fun in having a manual, but worried about the beating it may have gone through before as this would not have happened with a tiptronic right? Btw, if test driving a tiptronic, how will I know/feel/hear if there is something wrong with the gear(s) in general? (almost getting there lol)

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the c4 cab sounds like what you want.... as for the tiptronic for the type of driving you do this is probably best suited for you and longevity is higher than with the manual... (as long as it's been serviced)

Thanks again Tbred911 . I now have three C4's tip's in the limelight, but think I'll wait until later this summer (end of it anyway) as cab prices will go down a tad... Leaves med with more money in the Porsche 996 contingency fund, which my other half is not very impressed with...

I think a C4 will do really well in the snow, especially with proper winter tires. My C4S does really well in most conditions, the only exception is deep snow. PSM is a very nice option for slippery roads, and it does make a difference. I would insisit on it for a car to be driven in the winter. One thing you might check - does the hard top option for the cabriolet allow for attachment of a roof rack? I know the coupe allows for this, but I'm not sure about the hard top for the cab.

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Hi Dennis , Thank you for taking your time to post your views. Highly appreciated :-) I saw a C4 Convertable for sale some time ago here in Switzerland where the seller specifically also included a ski rack for the hard top, so it is (or at least has been) available. This is something I'm going to look into once I get the car (and knowing me, I won't take it out when it's too cold, too warm, too wet, too dry, too dark, too gright ). Now, it didn't say what type of rack so maybe one of those magnetic things... I know Porsche made some racks early on in 996 history...

Porsche does offer a rack for the 996, but I'm not sure who makes it. I don't have one. I bought a Thule rack for my Cayenne and it's very good. I'd probably start there if I were looking for one for my 996.

Frank, Please feel free to visit our website and browse our Porsche listings: Porsche 911 - Porsche 911 For Sale

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Morgan to you over the Pond Frank! I still can't believe I have her! Mine is a 2001 Cab C4 with the little "hard hat" Hubby and I are like two kids both wanting to drive her! Everything about this car was well thought out with every attention paid to the details. The C4 does feel a little more solid in the corners and I will drive year round and she will make a fab snowmobile Just like my meeting my husband, it was smitten at first site - love at first feel. I did not want a cab - we already have a convertible Sky. But every other detail was perfect - I do not track I love driving it and it has so much horsepower for being the 3.4. Anything above 3 grand and it's raw power - My brother had it up to 140 and there was a whole lot more pedal.. I'm not a great driver so I think that the PSM will be to my benefit.

A C4 with snow tires is of course the ideal arrangement. On the other hand if my choice was between a C4 with all weather tires and a C2 with winter tires, I'd opt for the latter. AWD with good tires is outstanding in the snow when you are travelling on a relatively flat road or when going up a hill. AWD offers no advantage when going down hills. The type of tires and the amount of tread on the tires is decisive when travelling down hills in the snow.

I absolutely agree that tires are the most important thing in winter driving. Additionally, the C4 and the C4S utilize a viscous coupling to drive the front wheels. It typically delivers 95% of the power to the rear wheels only, and only when the rear wheels slip does it distribute more power (up to 40%) to the front wheels. Both the C4 and the C4S drive very much like a RWD car.

Thanks again for the feedback and tips. I'm now more sure than ever to get a C4 and as a cab as I see it as getting two cars in one (coupe - w/ the hard top and as a cab).

Frank996: as for the transmission, both are pretty good. I have a 6 speed, wouldn't change it for anything...we'll see about PDK when the time comes, but right now, not in my cards. If you spend time in a lot of city traffic, the triptronic just might be your answer. If you are going for mostly long pleasure drives, thru the hills n' moutnains.........I would find it hard to believe that the 6 speed couldn't fir the bill, perfectly. As long as the previous owner took good care of the car, the 6 speed will last for a long time. As for the clutch, depends on the previous driver/technique (as in no resting foot on the clutch pedal)...and it should last annd last and last. If you row the gears real hard, or miss a shift, yep, you'll put alot of wear on it on worse, the "money shift" but I suspect that this car will be a recreational driver. My .02, C4S (always opt-in for more horsepower) and it would definately be a 6 speed (also a bit more control in the winter)......GL

Hi Frank - I was in your shoes about a year ago when I bought my 996. I had been looking for several years, just trying to find the right car. I ended up with a red 2WD Cabriolet, even though I was looking for a coupe. I would strongly recommend a thorough inspection - you are better off spending 300 or 400 dollars and walking away from a problematic car than buying it. Most Porsches are in good shape, and kept well, so I bet you won't have any problems. The key is finding a good mechanic - maybe your cousin with the Porsche can refer you to one. You'll read a lot about the IMS and RMS here - they're worth knowing about, but there's not much you can do about them. My car is a daily driver, so I replaced them before they could become a problem. The car didn't need it, but I sleep better and it will help on resale. Transmissions - if this is your first Porsche, I'd recommend the 6speed. I've read very good things about the automatic, but for your first Porsche, and being in the mountains, I'd recommend the manual. Lastly - since you mentioned you're Nordic, you HAVE to take your new ride out to the Atlantic Road by Kristiansund, up north in Norway. I rode as a passenger on it, and it was stunning. I'll never forget it, or the nice people we met. Keep us posted - let us know what you end up with! Rob

Hi Rob, Thanks for your input as well. Highly appreciated in deed. I have come to the conclusion that a tiptronic might be a better option as most towns in Switzerland have some very steep streets which could have some unnecessary clutch usage from time to time and also suffer from heavy traffic. I haven't driven myself here yet, BUT have my eyes open where-ever I go. If for some reason I can't get a tiptronic but all the other boxes are ticket, it wouldn't hold me back unless it needs changing very soon, which I guess I will notice when changing gears during the test drive. Btw, should one ask the seller to let one test drive the car from cold or does it not matter? How will I know if it drips oil (yes, I could ask, but is there anyother way to find out)? Thanks again all for your views, replies, input and especially own experiences. This is worth gold tbh... //F

Regardless of what kind of car I buy, I generally ask the buyer to leave it overnight, unstarted, for when I get there. Few sellers would refuse you this, and it lets them know that you've done this before. The first thing I do is pull the dipstick and check the oil - but what you're really doing is this confirming that the engine is indeed "cold." Also gives you a good chance to check the other fluids and check for any serious leaks that would be fresh if the car hasn't moved. On start, a little roughness is okay as the smog pump is generally running and the engine is settling in -but you shouldn't have to adjust the throttle, and there should be no visible exhaust (unless it's cold outside, of course). It's also nice to see if the car has any hesitation when you first pull out of the driveway. It shouldn't, but if it stalls or requires high rpms, something is probably out of adjustment. I always try to remember that I'm not trying to make a $30,000 decision - I'm just trying to make a 300.00 decision ( to keep from bringing a car with serious problems to my mechanic for an unnecessary pre purchase inspection). Rob

Also don't forget to ask for service records ... see how frequent oil was changed ... this should give you some idea of how well car was maintained .. look to see if windows drop when you pull door handle to open door ... does cruise control work ( if fitted), do all 4 tires match, does indicator stalk return to off pisition after turning .. easy things to check before ppi and will give you some more idea of how fastidiously it was maintained (these are relatively cheap issues to fix and should be checked in ppi anyway but gives you another view into how well maintained car is) others here can probably add to the list

This is great info guys. Highly appreciated in deed. Saw a grey 996 cab (with matching colour canvas) passing me this morning as I was walking from the train station towards the office... Another sign

We only live once ( unless you are Hindu .. but then you come back as a dog and cannot drive anyway) . The best thing about being in Bern is you are close to the autobahn for weekend blasts ... enjoy ...

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And this being Switzerland, should you go 3 mph above the legal speed limit you are gonna get a hefty fine... That said, Germany is not far away should I wish to drive fast (which is not my thing really ) Btw, my avatar is the car I have in sight... A C4, 3.6L, 2002, Tip (yes I know) and 132'000 km (82'500 miles) on the clock at a reasonable price with 12 months warranty. When the avatar changes, it means it's my current want

So, the time has finally come... Going to view a 11/2003 C4 Cab with manual transmission with only 40'000 miles on the clock and with 12 month warranty on Wednesday in Geneva. Its with a hardtop and the photos from the dealer looks good. The interior "matches" the milage by the looks of it and seems very honest in deed. Getting very excited tbh... Any last pointers?

Congrats on getting closer. You will love it. As far as tips, I would re-read Rob's posts. Good luck!

Typical! The same dealer who has the cab just got in a stunning 2002/03 C4S with 50'000 miles on the clock. This is also a manual but in the darker antracite grey with black leather sport seats. It is USD 4'000 dearer than the cab and as I'm already over by USD 6'000 with the cab I'm thinking what the hell. Going to check both cars tomorrow after work but am now leaning heavily towards the C4S... Steve's MLC, thanks for your feedback. I'm doing as recommended and getting a manual 6 speed as you are right, it will be more fun and have also re-read Robs recommendations.

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Just when you thought you'd be happy with the C4! I've never owned a C4S, but can attest to the fact that a Widebody IS a great visual improvement for a 996! I say go for it! as long as you don't get too emotional about the purchase, and of course, if there isn't a demand for the C4S in your area, then negotiate a bit better on the price and make sure you have a contigency plan to get the car thoroughly inspected by an independent Porsche tech. You do mention that the cars have a 12 month warranty, which is a plus. Transmission...Manual...once the engine is warmed up, just keep it in the lower gears all the way through to about 3000-4000 rpms ( as needed) before upshifting. There is no need to row past 4th gear in city/suburban traffic. less time working the clutch. good luck, and post pics.....

No one here has mentioned getting a read on the DME looking for over revs? Not a big thing on an automatic but a must on a manual. I would buy a higher mileage turbo over a regular 996 any day. Depreciation on a turbo is about done from this point forward on a 996.

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Thank you very much Now I'm getting even more confussed There is also, elsewhere, a 2002/01 996 Turbo with 108'000 km on the clock with tip for the same price as the C4S... Damn it... Now I'm back to square one. I think it would have been much easier had I gotten a car loan as the attachment to my savings over the last 5 months makes it harder somewhat. I'm very much warming up to a Turbo as I believe they cause less problems than other 996's BUT will cost me more in maintenance...

OK... Went to check out the car ( 2002 - C4S ) in Geneva yesterday and the place was of course closed Sent a mail (in English) to the mail address they have advertised on the front but didn't hear back from them Have asked a colleague at work to call them today and ask if I can check out the car on Saturday... Cross my fingers and if no go, I'm heading to the German speaking part of Switzerland to check out a Turbo I also have my eyes on at the same price Lots of luxury cars parked in the showroom, Ferrari's, High end Audi's, Maserati and Porsche's...

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Since the hardtop is skinned in aluminum -- a magnetic rack might provide more excitement than you had in mind. That said, it really is nice to be able to switch from the soft top & open motoring, to the hard top with more interior room, better insulation and quieter for the winter. Like having two different cars. James

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Turbos may have a bit more maintenance involved because its more complex but they are ultra reliable. There is a member with over 318,000+ miles on his as a daily driver with only regular maintenance. People get into trouble because they start modding it to get more HP and then it blows up. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...ge-996-tt.html

Frank, Slow down, relax, and research. Read everything you can find about the 996. I noticed you said this is your FIRST car? I was where you are (except the first car part) but I seached for over a year for the right 996 before I bought one. Each car I looked at could have been "the one" if I would have impulse bought. Each time, I thought there were none better out there, I found more to look at. Look at all the versions before you decide. C2, C4, C4S, TT, auto or manual, get what you like best. Do you have any mechanical ability? If not, find a capable person you trust before you even waste money on a PPI at an Indy (not the dealership). Bottom line is RESEARCH!!! and DONT GET IN A HURRY!!! (patiently waiting for more insults from IM0oo)

Hi KrazyK, I have researched Porsche ever since I sat in a 1979 3.0 911 25 years ago but you're of course right. I need to calm down I now have a shortlist and was for a while quite keen on a Turbo but have decided against it, mainly because I don't get overly exited about the extra HP and I can't get to terms with the spoiler and air intakes on the side. Maybe with time it will change but I must say I love the design of the C4S eventhough it is based on the Turbo. I shall return and maybe the viewing on Saturday will not bare fruit

I believe Frank has been researching this for over 6 months - no hurry on his end, other than a typical buyer's enthusiasm. Frank - any luck on Saturday?