Kelly Blue Book....?

How does one get around the prices shown in the KBB for our cars? Take for instance my 1999 996....private party in good shape shows $24,600. Most I see for sale (similar model) are going for high $20's or low $30's. Just curious.........

Thee KBB is primarily for dealers to get trade-ins for a lower price. Edmonds is a better source.

Maybe so, but everybody knows about KBB & looks there first....how do you get around that?

Edmonds.com showed right at $27,500 for mine, still shy of what most people are asking for their (similar) cars......

nada.com is the source that banks and insurance companies are using to determine values. these sources are only GUIDES...just search for a similar make, model, mileage car on autotrader.com they are actual market values. kbb.com isnt in the car business, theres no one there to talk do and they DAMN sure dont write any checks.

This is very true, but.....where do most people go to find out what a car is "worth".......KBB! Nobody is going to want to pay more than what they see at KBB.com, would you? I am not trying to start any arguments here as I obviously would like to get the most for my car as possible when I go to sell it.....just trying to figure out how people are pricing their cars so high as compared to KBB & why anybody would pay more than what is shown? EDIT: I guess what I am getting at is what could you say to somebody that wants to buy your car & they say...."Well, KBB shows it's only worth $24,500" when I would like to get $28,000 or 29,000.

[QUOTE=ZX9RCAM]This is very true, but.....where do most people go to find out what a car is "worth".......KBB! Nobody is going to want to pay more than what they see at KBB.com, would you? They will if they want the car and can't find it elsewhere. Purchasing a used porsche is not usually an impluse item. Most people know what they want and know how much they are willing to pay. List your car for what you would like tio get for it and see what happens.

[QUOTE=John Henry III - AZ] ------------------------------------------------------------ Second that...having bought and sold a few myself over the years, I think it's safe to say: If you are patient you will get the value you are looking for. If you are looking to sell sooner, price it at KBB and it will go quickly.

I have mentioned it to a few people at work that I intend to sell in a few months & when they ask what I want for it, knowing they will look at KBB, I was at a loss for what to say......concerned that they would feel I was trying to "gouge" them if I asked for $3,000 or $4,000 more than KBB. Everybody on this Forum knows it's not a good place to get prices (for a Porsche), but the average person looks at it as a statement of value, no matter what vehicle they are pricing.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that most people rely on KBB for used car values? In my circle, informed and uninformed alike, they all rely on Edmund's TMV as a better indicator of pre-owned value. As to what you would retort to those who quote KBB values? Perhaps the same thing the dealers would say when you make a purchase offer based on KBB?

any time i've bought or sold a car...i've always looked at what others are listed for sale for, not what some paper back publication says it should be worth, but ACTUAL MARKET VALUES !!

First, though, just because you see similar cars advertised for the high $20s to low $30s doesn't mean that is what the cars will actually go for. (In the past, I've tracked used cars for sale and after the ad goes away I call the seller up and sometimes I can learn what the car actually sold for. Most of the time -- though not all -- they sold the car for less than the asking price.) Remember too, price is not a fact, just an opinion. And you don't know the condition of the cars. (First and second hand experience is that "excellent" or "good" condition can mean just what it says or the car still has 4 wheels attached -- barely -- and everthing in between...) You have to research the market as best you can and set a price based on your research. You can start out a bit high, but you need to make sure the car doesn't fail the meet the price range you've set for it upon a cursory inspection. The car wants to be in as good a shape as you can make it. I'm not talking about a total respray to cover rock chips, etc, but the car must be professionally detailed, washed inside and out and cleaned and as much cosmetic issues taken care of as possible. New pedals, mats, tires match, any outstanding mechanical issues taken care of: brakes, leaking RMS, etc. If emissions is required in your area, have car checked and have receipt to show car passes all emissions tests, safety/insurance tests too. Have copies of original Marooney window sticker and hand those out as buyer comes up to view car. Have stack of service/repair receipts handy and make an outline -- date/time/place/mileage when you had what done. If anything done recently that is still under warranty, have the invoice that shows this and that it is transferrable to new owner. Best too if you can show good care recently and not only for major services but for small items like trim, light bulbs, etc. to show you spared no expense keeping car up and in top shape. Then when someone shows up to look the car over and mentions your price vs. some other source of prices you have to be prepared to reply that those are just guidelines and your car is priced fairly for the market and then point out its good points of you car, whatever they may be. It helps too if you've checked out other used cars like yours in your area and can point out areas where those cars come up short against your's. You don't want to be too negative about the other cars -- you might be talking to one of their sellers who's doing a bit of market research on his own -- but you need to know where your car vs. the competition stands. Remember, you're selling a used car. Sincerely, Macster.

Just a caveat here... The asking prices of cars are not "market value" -- the selling prices are. There are guides, like SCM (sports car market) that compile their data through actuall sales. Instead of looking at Autotrader, a more accurate search would be the completed auctions on ebay.

Good stuff....thanks guys!

Yah - it's tough selling cars,especially if you are in a hurry or something close to it. To make matters worse, buying a 996 (especially a 1999) is easy nowadays for reasons that have been WELL documented here. I for one used kbb as a starting point when I was looking at cars earlier this year. In the case of the 3.4 litre cars with original engines (especially 1999) I would be real hesitant to pay more than the lowball price. As it was, I paid *below* kbb for a mint Mk II because the seller was motivated, so your concerns are real. That all said, you do all the thing macster said, you set a price, you wait for a buyer who wants your exact car and is willing tp pay what you want. Simple really, but time consuming. Fact is, it helps if your car is silver with a black interior, and with moderately low miles. If it's got a Savannah interior and is teal or something, it's ging to take a LONG time to find the right buyer who is also colour blind or whatever. What's the story on the car?

I have really bad news for you if you think KBB is listing lower. Here in NJ most dealers I have talked to, go by Galves and that is usually showing lower prices than KBB. Anytime I shop a car for trade in and mention KBB, I get told that their prices for trade in are too high. I have gotten that same response at Honda, Chrysler/Jeep, Audi, and Porsche dealers. For trade in, the local auction house prices really set the standard and Galves is much closer to that than anything else. Galves is a subscription service and most dealers subscribe.

No "story" just wanting to upgrade to a TT & will be wanting to sell this car I have had for almost 2 yrs......bought it as a weekend toy to replace my Motorcycles & liked it so much have been using it as a DD, put ~25,000 miles on it in this time....Color is Paladio Metallic I believe with Boxster Red interior. Picture below.....

I've seen much much less nice (is that right) cars than that list for over $30K. More importantly I've also seen them sell for $30K. I was chasing a few which slipped through my fingers. The 1999 has a couple of things going for it - a bit lighter, faster throttle response on account of the cable setup. Yours in particular has the clear headlights and the upgrade wheels. Should be possible to sell for $30K pretty quick. The red interior will put off half you buyers. Case in point - there was a boxster red interior 996 in Texas I was looking at. I liked the interior, but my wife refused. The thing about the $24K kbb price is that it only is a factor if there are other cars for sale for that price. The "trick" you originally were asking for to get around the lowball buyers is to tell them to go and buy a $24K 996. When they realize they can't (cuz there's none available) they'll come back to you - provided your car is desirable to them. Good luck anyway - post it in the classifieds here. That's where I found my car.

I like the Boxter Red interior myself, but I know what you mean. You gave me what I was looking for as far as your "trick" is concerned. That is what I was needing to see.........thanks!

When people say "but the KBB price is <fill in the inadequate price>" you respond by saying "KBB isn't accurate for Porsches". If it's their first day shopping for Porsches they won't beleive you. But if it's their 3rd month shopping for Porsche's, they'll know you are absolutely right. It's not necessary to go into a bunch of explanations. If a buyer is running around offering people KBB for their Porsche, they're going to accumulate a collection of "no deals". Eventually they'll figure out that they're not going to get a decent Porsche for KBB. +1 for Ebay on judging what the cars are going for. Be sure to select "Complete Listings" so you can see how much cars sold for, and didn't sell for. But be aware that lots of Ebay cars sell off-line, for a little under asking, after the auction closes.

If you look at the "retail" vs the private party value there are normally huge swings in value- obviously even though it is a private party sale the prices they normally bring are between these. As I state all the time- a car is worth what someone will pay for it then and there which is why most dealers do check auction prices on trade-ins which are still fairly strong by the way on a 99 996.

Cam, when you give them a price, explain that KBB and Edmunds value them well below what they actually sell for. Give them some examples from this site or even Cars.com. Send them to some of the well knows Porsche specialty dealers sites. They will soon understand what the Porsche label does for the prices. After they miss buying a few cars because they sold for close to the asking price, they will learn to up the ante. I think we all learned it this way, didn't we?

We know that, I just didnt know how to handle (for example) my co-workers who asked about it & then checked KBB, etc.....it is difficult to explain to the non-initiated about Porsche values. Thanks guys for all the replies......

Are you sure you did it right? I just ran KBB using zip code 77373 (Spring Tx) for a 99 996 20k miles, premium wheels and it came up with $27,575 for private party, good condition. When I run the same here in soCal I get $30k, and frankly cars are sitting at $30k around here, but move at $27k. The market is very very soft on 996's so be careful not to fool yourself just because it is a Porsche ~$27.5-28 is probably not too far off the mark to be honest.

In California where I live, I would never think of paying more than KBB private party for any Porsche. In fact, since the 996's are so soft on the market, I would more than likely pay back of book. The prices you are looking at in autotrader, for the most part, are totally unrealistic. People think that since they own a Porsche, they should get a premium price for their ride when they go to sell it. Those same people, have their car listed for months on end and never figure out why no one is calling them, or buying their vehicle. Yes, Porsches are great fun to have, but when it comes down to the time to say bye-bye...you need to be real about it. A Porsche is just another car when it is time to sell and KBB usually hits the nail right on the head when it comes to value. Tom L 2002 C2

WOW, just checked Edmunds and NADA on my 2002 C2 and they book it out for $5500 less than KBB. Guess the market on 996's is softer than I thought??? Maybe I'll just keep it. Tom L 2002 C2

My experience has been that KBB is on the high side. I don't know about the Dealers in other areas, but the Dealers in MD go by auction prices and not by any kind of books, be it KBB, Edmunds, Black Book, etc. As one Dealer told me when I went to sell him my car, why should I pay you the X price quoted in KBB when I can get the same car for .8X at an auction. Of course the dynamic changes if it's a trade-in. Many Dealers especially at the end of the month, will pay you a premium for your trade just to move the new car. If I were selling my car privately, I'd begin by finding out what the local Dealers will pay you for your car. Let me warn you, it won't be much but this will set the wholesale value for your car. As noted above Dealers go by auction prices, so you'll probably find that the Dealers will offer you just about the same amount for your car. As an example the last time I shopped my car to Dealers, the prices ranged from a low of $31,900 to a high of $32,400. Again I want to emphasize that this was not a trade-in but just a sale to a Dealer. BTW KBB good on a trade-in for my car was $36,900. After establishing the wholesale price, multiply that value by 1.2 and you'll have a price that should sell rather quickly in your area. Good luck.

20,000 miles............on a 1999...I have put 20,000 miles on mine in the 2 years I have owned it. Mine has 81,500 miles on it....re-run with that mileage. Oh, I did run it again with "20,000" miles & it showed a value of $27,995 in zip code 77380.

I have shopped my '99 C2 at a few dealers for trade in and the prices offered were all uniformly awful. And they were all within the same range. On a higher mileage car, they are only going to auction it off and they all know exactly what the price is. Here on the east coast, 996's are just not getting much at auction. If I were buying I would not offer much above trade in value plus the sales tax difference. The only people paying top dollar are not doing their homework. You can find pristine cars at a very good price. Most people tying to privately sell a Porsche are operating on emotion. Luckily so are a lot of the buyers.

I think fast1 is also giving you a good selling point. That is, if you buy from most dealers, despite what they tell you, where has the car really come from? A fax report won't tell you how it has been treated. Part of the value of buying from an individual is that you can trace the actual owners to get a sense of its condition and treatment. In the past when I have been selling a car for an above-average price, I have been prepared to wait and also Politely tell people that they get what they pay for. I know how reliable and well kept my car has been. I have the records to support that claim. In contrast, if a dealer got a car at an auction, someone probably wanted to dump it. Fast. So, the new buyer may get it for a lower purchase price, but may spend a lot more in the long run in repair or the embarrassment or even danger of breaking down in heavy traffic or on a narrow road. They need to decide if it is worth the gamble. If you argue that Porsches retain their value, then all the lower prices (regardless of the source) is evidence against your claim. Your strongest positon is that your price reflects the value of your car. Used cars are easy to find. Good to excellent used cars are harder. The fantasy is to find an excellent car for the price of a beater. Among performance cars, that amounts to a good deal on swamp land in Florida. So, do they want to pay less for something with an unknown history and take a greater gamble with their cash and possibly safety, or pay a little more from you for one that is in more of a known condition and history of use? (btw, a custom red Boxter interior is more Rare than a "plain old black interior"...not unlike some of the Ferrari red interiors. Makes it more unique; stands out with more character.)

I'm selling a BMW currently and I priced it based on similar year, mileage, and location. Yet, KBB is considerably lower and it just gives potential buyers leverage to work the price down. My experience with KBB is that the prices listed are unrealistic. When you go for a trade in, the dealer offers you even less than KBBs trade in price, and when you shop of cars, higher end cars that is, the asking prices are typically higher than KBB. However, I agree with the orininal poster in that buyers all seem to know KBB and talk about it.

I am living a fantasy like this - although by now I deserve it! I bought a seal grey 2002, black full leather, 18 inch wheel, litronic car with no PSM (my preference,) and a year of CPO left for $35K last april. It had 41K miles on it. By all measure a smoking deal and man do I L-U-V that car. Thanks Bob if you're reading this btw. Let's remember it's only money though guys. Really what's $5K when you're driving a late model Porsche and you have a big house and all the crap that goes with it. Let's face it...if someone said to me I'll give you five grand if you spend the next year trying to sell a slightly overpriced luxusry sports car in a glut market - I'd tel them no thanks. That's 50 hours of work at $100 per hour. Normal overtime rates. YMMV I agree - neat colour. I'd have to see it in real life before I make my mind up whether I'd own it or not though.