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YOUR RESEARCHWhat's it worth - 00' C4 w/ Flat 6 Stocker
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Tonight it gets it's transmission back but has to give up it's coilovers in return (while my Moton is getting repaired.)
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All 4 O2 sensors and the MAF were replaced proactively.
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I'm glad I'm not trying to sell used 996s for a living.
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Dumont's is probably the best shop overall in OKC.
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Suggestion
I've mostly been thinking about a 997 or 991, but have been hesitant to buy because of the potential for huge repair cost related to bore scoring and IMS failure.
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2000 Carrera4 Coupe 6MT w/ New Flat 6 Innovations 3.4l Stocker Engine
With the date looming for bringing home this car, I was starting to panic a bit. It was kind enough to provide the donor motor for my track car upgrade and my plan was to install my existing track car engine into it. But there is a difference between my wife knowing I own a 3rd 996 and actually seeing it in the driveway. So I started thinking about what the best way would be to get this beautiful 996 back on the road. And installing an engine with 10k track miles on it probably wasn't the answer.
With the objective being "the best", I naturally thought of Flat 6 Innovations. Even though there is a 1 year back log in their finally tuned machine, I know slots open up from time to time due to customer circumstances and sure enough, there just happened to be a slot for a 3.4l Flat 6 Innovations Stocker engine. Perfect!
The 3.4l Stocker has the same power and displacement as a stock engine but with all the Flat 6 goodies. This includes a better balanced engine, Nickie cylinders, LN IMS Pro single row bearing and more.
So I'm very familiar with the used 996 market. But obviously adding a Raby engine changes everything. The only reference point I have is watching the 40AE "roller" bring $20k! And wishing I'd bought it myself. So I'm curious on everyone's opinion of what you think it's worth?
photo250.jpg
Or I could part it out and drive up the value of my other two. But where's the fun in that? It's a really nice car and it's going to be whole lot nicer when I'm done. And did I mention that it's a 4 spoke '00 which is up there with the '99 as the greatest 911 ever made?
I think the only way to price it is to look at how much the Raby cost, decide how much you think someone else will think it's worth, and then decide if you're willing to eat the difference.
For obvious reasons, it's going to bring a higher price to people who know what you're talking about - which eliminates 99+% of the population.
There's been a 1999 996 W/Raby motor for sale for months now. He can't get $29K I know that...
Or better yet, you can park it in my driveway and come drive it any time you like...Both our wifes will be happy!!
I'm only a thousand miles West, barely even a day's drive!
Seriously, I'd put it on BaT as a follow up to the 40th AE auction. Guessing $20-$23k since the market will pay for unique specs (mk1 aero, 40th AE), but a lot of quality 996s pass through the cracks. Ex. Mk2 with 17k in recent receipts went for $19k. You should do better, but not by more than 10-20%.
Unless... we do DEFCON & all raid BaT & juice the bidding :O
Side note, that other Raby build that's up for $29k is a deal imo. You more or less zap much of the internal woes of IMS/bores/rod quality, basically the meat of the tail risk in these cars. Longevity improves & you just need to plan for peripheral updates. I want a 964 Targa to tool around but a 996 is a different level of performance. Not really reflected in pricing right now given the available fun.
133k miles. I need to double check options. As far as RWD, it would definitely have been the first thing I did to it. But I think a lot of people see both stock and C4 as a plus. And I think with the Stocker engine that this car can still be considered stock, don't you think?
Wait, you waited all this time for Jake to get to it and put all the money into it, but you left it as a 3.4?
What was the reasoning for not going to a 3.6 or 3.8 (4.0 can't be done from a 3.4 right?)?
Not being snarky for a change, serious question.
That beautiful, not-ubiquitous color, the emergent rep of the Early cars, and a fresh FSI engine each will move the BaT needle.
But I'd sell something else-- my neighbor's Infiniti, my ex-wife's kidneys -- and keep that one for 30k all-purpose miles. Looks like Fun.
It is really really tempting. The only reason I don't is because my other '99 has basically become my track car's slave. I'm consistently robbing it for parts or using it as my backup track car.
Always good to have redundant backups.
I'd offer to swap the blue for my silver, but I don't think that would help you much... other than with multiple silver 996's, your wife might just think she's seeing things.
Wow, that color is gorgeous! And with a fresh FSI engine??? C'mon man, you gotta find a way to make it so you can keep that car!! You'll 100% regret it if you don't...
But if you do list it on BaT, I think it has the potential to sell for upwards of $24k. Especially if you can get dyno, compression and leakdown test numbers when finished. Load up the auction with as much techno-data-detail you can and you'll get top dollar. Especially if you get a bunch of RL'ers on there talking the car up... Would be a fun week for you and the crew here.
Then two weeks later you'll be kickin' yourself in the ***...
Lol! Great feedback. With the May 15th due date for the 3.8 FSI in my track car I should be good for now. It won't be until 6 months down the road that I will be thinking "damn I should have kept that!"
Excellent points, our confidence interval in the engine is much different than the average BaT guy with $$ & little contextual knowledges. Spelling it out for em = $$$
I didn't know about the 3.8 also underway, maybe you won't be kicking yourself quite as hard as I originally thought.
I will say that I like that shade of blue better than silver. It seems a really rare color. But with the added detail about the other engine revealed, selling the blue one makes sense in terms of taking the easier path of least resistance.
I just hope for you that you don't end up losing money along the way. Actually, you may even come out well ahead.
Good luck either way...
Selling the silver street car (stock engine?) and keeping the stocker 3.4 isn't an option?
I can't help but think you'd get better relative value putting the silver car on BaT.
I had actually planned on keeping this car all along. As stated, the blue looks awesome! I was even on the lookout for some anthracite CCW wheels for it. Then the wife chimes in "don't sell the silver car, I'm kind of attached to it." For my mega cab diesel driving wife to show any interest in one of my "sports" cars was jaw dropping.
So my plan is to move the track car engine over to silver (20hp more), drop a couple hundred lbs tastefully, and see how quick I can make it without spending any real money. Then I won't feel guilty as I continue scavenge from it as needed. Tonight it gets it's transmission back but has to give up it's coilovers in return (while my Moton is getting repaired.)
I'll PM you 808. We could even work part of the deal in trade for surf lessons for the whole family!
This car is ready to go! Will have updated pics and dyno results to upload tonight. Will wait a day or so to see if anymore RL'ers are interested then it will go live on BAT.
photo985.jpg
I love this car, and the color.... I put 110 miles on it, and all was flawless! Didn't make it on the dyno today due to some research that we decided to do when we happened upon a new occurrence with a track car.
SOON!
OMG... we'd never hear the end of that!!!!
j/k
And..... it would take away all of the anticipation and fun we'd get from watching the whole thing unfold on Bring A Trailer.
HOLY COW!
We have a new record for a Flat 6 Innovations "Stocker" 3.4L engine! Just finished the dyno session and it made 261 RWHP and 226# of torque at the rear wheels! These engines typically make 243-247 RWHP and 225# of torque on our dyno.
Graph this evening! I knew this one felt really strong on my 110 mile test loop, but I am blown away by this!
The engine is all stock, right down to the intake, tune, and exhaust. Nothing is modified at all. The most this combo has ever yielded before is 251 RWHP and that came with aftermarket exhaust and an IPD plenum!
Hell, it still has break in oil which usually costs 5-7 RWHP in my experience. Now, someone buy it before I have to listen to those weenies on BAT that think they know everything as they sit at work on the boss' dime making comments.
What is it they say, "Why is divorce so expensive?" "Because it's worth it".
Amazing numbers. If / when the motor in my ME needs surgery, I know where it's going
It went to the detailer yesterday and as soon as it's back Flat6 will snap the photos for the BaT listing. They've gone above and beyond to help me on this and I'm extremely appreciative.
Thanks man. Turning on the pressure aint ya! haha This is like dangling a carrot in front of a rabbit's face.
That car is so close to me, I could reach out and touch it. And... That color blue is also my favorite (such a rare 996 color) and the fact that Raby had his expert hand on the motor makes this beautiful gem very attractive. No doubt about it, Raby is the virtuoso of M96 engines and I'm sure it will bring a premium at auction which I don't have unless I want to live in the preverbal doghouse. I do wish Slakker the best in the BAT auction.
After selling my 996, driving my Volvo seems like driving a prius. Oh well.
From his previous comments and pics it looks like Jake might be thinking about adding this one to his stable! He could set one of his assault vehicles outside. That would also eliminate listening to his "friends" on BAT!
Nah.... All my Porsches are aircooled these days, but if I ever own another 996 it will be the earliest one I can find, and I'd love this color combo.
I haven't bought a Porsche in the last year or so I've been busy adding European Military Vehicles. I just finished this Unimog 1700, too. Of course a daily driver like the Ferret is hard to beat, especially with a live 30 caliber in the turret!
Is that zenith blue with grey interior? Nice! Mine has a Boxster red interior. Not much of a red fan but I love the Zenith Blue! What is on the roof above the windshield?
Nice play there Jake... way to park Slakker's car in front of Xavier Robert's place. ha! Did they notice or are the accustomed to your photo-ops? I know you said your mom used to baby sit Roberts back in the day.
When the car goes live on BAT, let me know... I want to make a comment early on that says "Do not email me about this damn car, the damn engine, the paint, the tires, or the seller! In fact I will delete any email that is sent, upon receipt!"
But people are dumb (sorry, stupid) and some rocket scientist will say "I'd like to pick your brain about this car thats for sale on BAT."
I'm a local OKC guy and would like to know a little more about the car. I've been contemplating a 911 and the idea of one with a new and better motor is intriguing. Other than the motor, has much else been done to it? Btw, where is the best place to get porsche service in okc
All 4 O2 sensors and the MAF were replaced proactively. Besides that, I don't have much service history. But most of the weaknesses of the 996 are in the engine and those have all been addressed.
Dumont's is probably the best shop overall in OKC. They charge as much as the dealership but they do better work. Planet 9 eleven does really good work but they stay covered up and are hard to get ahold of.
It would be awesome if this car ended up at OKC, and more importantly, Hallett!
Mike Dumont is a great guy... he's attended many of my classes and is very sharp. I'm ready to invite him to my Certified Installer program, too.
Slakker's 996 does have a new battery.....
Thanks for the info. I've mostly been thinking about a 997 or 991, but have been hesitant to buy because of the potential for huge repair cost related to bore scoring and IMS failure. This one shouldn't have any of those issues. I'll have to keep an eye on the auction
My first p-car was a 997TT. It was a good DD. But if you want a car that is truly a blast to drive on the road or track, you can't beat the 996. It's all the feel of the air cooled cars but with the hp of the water cooled. All of the evolution from there was to make it more comfortable or easier to drive. Neither of which lend itself to improved driver experience.
agreed! I just sold my modded 996tt and went back to a 40thae. I have only been able to drive it a few miles, but the sound alone (fisters) is worth giving up 150hp.
There's some real keyboard warriors on this one.... Wow.
With the car at 12K in less than 12 hours, I think this will be interesting. Kudos to Slakker for having the ***** to post this car without a reserve..... BUT I believe it was genius!
Lol. I do believe no reserve will generate more interest and bidding but genius or goat will only be determined by the outcome. But the 40AE proved that the BaT crowd understands the value of an FSI engine and that's what I used as my basis for taking the chance. And it's definitely off to a strong start.
I hate to be cliche but I do hope it goes to a good home.
Seems that beyond the doofus -types there are people out there that understand enough about these cars and FS_i to make this a successful bidding session. Whatever the car sells for it will be "cheap", but I hope that you, Slakker, will be happy with the results. It is a beautiful car! The one guy who said something to the effect that is great that this car was not stripped due to engine failure was on point.
Not to hack into this thread, but there is a 99 996 on Autotrader with a Flat 6 Innovations engine for high 20s. Slakker's car and the Autotrader one are good reference points for the value of such beautys. Good luck Slakker! Here is the Autotrader ad: I thought you would like this 1999 Porsche 911 for $29,500 on Autotrader
http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/1A076083
If this keeps up, I may have to think about selling upgraded 996s!
Oh wait, nope.... Can't do that without regretting it later!
This is as close as you'll get to buying a car from me, and there's 4 to choose from at the present!
And before you think about it, don't ask me or anyone at FSI questions about these cars!!!!! Email the dealer!
That 22k mile Boxster S with the new engine is da bomb!
http://stonegateautosales.com/?vehic...tuses=for-sale
Well..... Looks like the first jackass has arrived on the BAT comments for the car. Took longer than I thought, but this guy appears to be a real winner!
Another passive commenter that obviously has never owned or maintained a Porsche 911 and is clueless about normal bolster wear on seats that are more than 18 years old.
"Stoopid is as stoopid does..." Maybe he's trying to suppress the bidding hoping to swoop in at the last minute and grab a bargain! Don't think it's going to happen with this one.
As the original owner of his car it sounds like gnat still needs to learn how to drive a stick.
And since when did the transmission become a major point of concern on a 996? The MT is really one of the strengths of the car.
It is HER car, I just signed a big fvcking check for it
We've both put multiple 100s of Ks on MT and have never had issues. Don't know what the deal is, but I'm far from the only one to have to rebuild/replace the trans with less than 100k on it.
Honestly had we noticed it sooner the detent fix may have pushed it out longer, but we didn't so we chewed up that synchro.
I'm not saying you are the only one but I would say it is an anomaly or driver induced based on the rarity of MT issues we see on this board. There are a lot of non p-car guys that will look at that and think the transmission is lucky to have made it 50k more miles than yours did. I didn't know if you were poking at Jake, truly concerned about the potential buyer, or just forgot that it's a for sale thread that I may get my *** kicked on. And I own that it will be my own damn fault if I do. I expect comments like that from your average BAT lurker that has no intention of bidding, but it caught me off guard from a fellow Rennlister that I have a great deal of respect for.
Ok, I'm done venting. I don't think it will make any difference in the outcome so no harm no foul.
Nah it was nothing about your car. Jake just said he doesn't see C4s with 2nd gear issues. Was just giving him a data point and clearly pointing out that it wasn't the classic detent fix that it required. Nothing more.
I was about to make a wisecrack in the BaT comments about the strange interest in trannies. It's about the last thing I think of on the 996.
Over 20k with the last 24hrs and potential for a bid off is a good spot to be in Slakker. Good luck with the end!
The comments keep getting better and better.
gnat, I owe you an apology. I over reacted.
And thanks for not turning the BaT comments into a tranny joke train guys. I don't think they would have understood.
No worries, we all do it. Honestly I didn't know what that PM was trying to say anyway
There's flinging **** around here for fun and there is money to made over there. Anyone that can't tell the difference and what's appropriate needs a good smack
And where the bidder is in his "menstrual cycle".... Those guys!
I'm glad that I vet my purchasers, about 2/3 of the people on those comments would never be pleased!
I bet the buyer ends up inventing something with this car to bitch about when they receive it... I will guarantee it! Better you than me, better you than me!
It's amazing how nitpicky people are when buying cars that are 15 plus years old these days. Our 996 had a few minor cosmetic things, but overall for its age it is in awesome shape. German cars really outshine the rest of the world when it comes to interior durability unless left in the sun to die.
For 20kish right now, it's hard to beat a 996 for performance, quality and fun. That's why I picked one up. The only other car that might be similar to me would be an '01 to '04 corvette zo6, but its not nearly as nice a car. They are fast though, but I already have two Corvettes.
I'm glad I'm not trying to sell used 996s for a living. Dealing with the customers would be too much of a headache and not near enough profit on each sale. The moaning and crying about door sill scuffs and the like would push me over the edge of sanity too.
current high bidder here. it would be a steal at 20. i could sell my 99 and be into this for a few thousand.
whats with these 4 things coming through the front trunk floor?
http://13252-presscdn-0-94.pagely.ne...IMG_2846-4.jpg
I feel that if someone gets this car for under $30k they should be happy, do whatever it needs and drive the crap out of it! An old timer used to tell me "Son, some people would b--ch if they got hung with a velvet rope!"
^This is certainly a seller's concern, there are a lot of p-car (and other) folks who obsess over these minor interior imperfections. The good news is that many of these can be addressed fairly easily if you are going for a top dollar sale - refinishing the plastic bits is not that hard, and the seats can be addressed with a professional upholsterer or DIY leather repair and redye (I find this work tedious though). In the case of this car, that effort was left to the buyer - which is fine and there will be many who can look thru the "problems" (those are air quotes) with the car and buy it anyway
Been watching this for a week now! Feels like it is my car up for bid! Last minute B.S.! The wife used to be antique dealer and we would go to auctions for product. These games irritate the crap out of me. I'm holding out for at least $25k...
And those two were hammering each other fast... Looks like one of them noticed it, and is now trying not to show his hand till the end. I see this with Government Auctions all the time when buying toys.
Yeah so many tactics...scare-em off by going big or dump on em at the end or just walk away after you drove em up too high...Actually it was kinda fun, but I over paid for a few things cause I got pissed! Just hoping Slak gets what he needs to be happy!
I'm with you. I have to exercise a lot of restraint when bidding. I do admit if I am going up against a jerk that hits me back immediately, I will usually run the damn bid up on purpose, and keep hitting him back. The first time I see him hesitate, I stop bidding. I did that last week bidding on a Unimog and cost the other guy 4K!
Well, I was only 750.00 off, BUT it still sold for 24K, just plus 750.00!
Great auction, makes me want to sell a couple of my pieces on BAT. Local dealer I do work for has a Boxster Track Car with only 22k miles and the same new engine this car had (just 3.2, not 3.4) to list next week on BAT. That will be interesting too!
Yeah I figured it would fetch another 1-2k more. Bummer.
We know it covered the cost of the engine build. Hopefully it covered the other sunk costs too.
It was a fun experience and I'm happy with the outcome. I talked to the buyer and he's been shopping for a 996 since last fall. I think he made a great choice.
Personally, I think the car should have brought closer to $27 with that fresh Raby engine.
But in the big picture, I do see what looks like a slight upward trend for 2000 Carrera prices here...
http://bringatrailer.com/search/2000+911/
Lets not forget that the real cost to the buyer includes the auction buyers premium.
http://bringatrailer.com/about-bat-auctions/
"How much is the buyer’s fee if I win? If you win the auction we charge 5% of the final bid price, with a minimum fee of $250 up to $5,000 (5% of a $100,000 bid). The fee for sales higher than $100,000 is capped at $5,000."
So add 1,237.50 to 24,750 to get a real selling price of $25,987.50 (is that 987 a hint?)
Lets call it $26K. Then at least $500 to ship it. Now $26.5K
The cool thing is 26k was my bottom dollar to everyone I discussed pricing with and what I had sold it for to the guy that backed out. Looks like I was pretty close to market value.
