IMS screw up . PLease HELP

I am in the middle of a RMS and clutch job. I decided to replace the IMS cover/seal as well since it was showing signs of leaking. I took the cover off and it surprised me that the bearing did not seem to be centered in the hole. I tried to install the new cover but it was not possible becasue it will not fit, due to the bolt not being centered (pls, see pic). I tried to push the bolt (and the whole bearing) so it will go to the center, and then the bolt got loose and the fall to the inside of the engine. it did not fall completely, but it is loose> So, how much of a screw up is this? Why is the bearing not centered? How do I fit the bolt back in the middle of the bearing? thanks in advacne for your help

Take out the tensioners, 3, that tension the chains to the cams and the crankshaft. Two are easy to be at, the one for the drivers side 1-3 cylinder cams is on the bottom of that head toward the front of the engine, the one for the IMS to Crankshaft chain is on the passenger side of the engine, on the side, not too hard to get at. These are the two that put pressure/tension on the chains at the flywheel side.The one for the passenger side 4-6 cylinder cams is alot harder to get at. It is on the top of the engine, cylinder head on the passenger side at the rear of the engine. To get at it you are going to have to remove the airbox, serpentinve belt and AC compressor. Then the hoses for the powersteering pump are partially in the way. You will have to remove the bolt in one of the brackets for these hoses to get a socket in to the area of the tensioner. However you might get away with not taking this one out as it is at the other endo the the IMS. Remember that each tensioner is specific to its location so you cna't interchange them. The first two will come all the way out. The last one only has to be loosened so it comes out of the threads and takes all pressure off the chain. They take some pressure to get them back in far enough to engage the threads. For the first two you just have to push on the socket/wrench hard enough to engage the threads, carelful you don't want to misthread them in the aluminun cases. For the last one the trick I use is to put something in the socket so the tensioner can't slide all the way back into the socket. I used a axle spacer from a harley.

Dharn55 is correct. It looks like you have the chain tensioners still installed, they are the reason why your bearing is not centered. With all three tensioners removed the IMS bearing will flop around loosely. That being said, I leave the tensioner for bank 2 installed when I'm doing this job. Removing the bank 2 tensioner is a real pain due to the A/C compressor and the P/S hard lines. With only the primary tensioner and the bank 1 tensioner removed, you'll have enough play to install the new seal with relative ease. HOWEVER THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. Before you run and take out the chain tensioners make sure you have the bank 1 cams on overlap and you have the crankshaft pinned. If you don't do this before you start pulling tensioners you run a huge risk of the engine jumping out of time. Without the tension of the chains holding the cams, the valve springs may cause the cams to turn in any direction if the tension is released. Tread carefully.

I thought that having the crank cly 1 on TDC was all that was required to change at least that's how I did mine.

wow guys, I didnt understand any of that... is the OP just as confused???

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OK, I removed the tensioners and installed the nev IMS cover, but I did not read this post until now...so how can i check if the timing was changed, because of not having the crankshaft pinned? thanks for all te inputs.

The only way the cam timing could have changed is if any of the chains jumped a tooth. Not likely, but possible. The only way to check the timing is to pull out the green cap on the chain side of each intake cam, and the greencap on the exhaust cam on the other end (where there are two caps). Then with the engine set to TDC, and on bank 1-2 the groove toward the outside on the intake cam, the grooves on the 1-3 exahust cam should be straight up and down on the intake cam, with the narrower side toward the outside. Then rotate the engine 360 degrees to TDC and look at the exhaust cam on the 4-6 side ( I forget which way the groove on the intake cam is on this side) the grooves should be straight up and down, narrow side out.

Thanks Dharn for refreshing my memory and it was easier with the eng out. MMASSE: If you don't all ready have try to get a manual it's a great aid.

Damn.... thats some technical **** right there.

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Me too! It is not that the instructions weren't clear, it is just that they were way over my head! Dharn & PETC great info for the OP! The knowledge on the 996 Forum rocks!

+1 for Tim's comment..... I didnt even have to duck it was so far overhead .... just stood in the field and looked around wondering

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Dharn, Can this green plug be taken out with the engine in the car? How do you take the off? In particular the lower on the flywheel side looks like mission impossible. I tried to pry the upper one out but I got scre to brake it. Is there any special procedure or just fit a crewdriver and pry out? thanks

Actually Porsche recomends that you use a screwdriver like tools that has selft-tapping threads on the end and screws into the plug which allows you to pull them out. But the plugs have to be replaced. Most of the time I have used a small screw driver to punch a small hole into each plug and then pried the out. But be careful, you don't want to push the whole plug into the engine. You will have to replace the plugs (996.105.215.54). They list for $9.19@.

GReat, thanks a lot

Out of curiosity, if the bolt was not centered why would the cover not fit on properly? Also if it's not centered while the old cover was on, what would change when he replaced with the new cover? Would everyone expect this to happen with the IMS cover/seal change?

The chain tensioners have to be loosened, to take some pressure off the chain and the bearing. If you don't loosen them, the bearing will move as seen in the picture as the cover is removed. Also much easier removing the cover with the tensioners loosened.

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I just finished the clutch/RMS/IMS job and when I turned the engine on the Check Engine Light went on. I checked the code and I get: code P0348 Camshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit High. I had checked the position of the cam after installing the new IMS cover (following the instructions above) and the position looked correct. What could be the reason for the code? is the cam timing screwed? Thanks in advance for your help Thanks

Yes, the tensioners MUST be removed before ANY IMS procedures can be accomplished without complication. You must also rotate the engine to TDC #1 and lock the crank to ensure the crank doesn't rotate during the procedures, thus altering the cam timing. The reason why the IMS bearing becomes off center when the flange is removed is due to the forces being applied to it by the chain tensioners. Now that the engine in question has had the IMS bearing flange pulled while the tensioners were in place I would verify the cam timing. I have done this in the past and experienced a 4 degree cam timing alteration on the 1-3 bank of cylinders. Never assume. Always verify. These engines have very tight piston/valve clearances and you don't want to experience what happens when things collide.

Jake, I understand I screw up. Now, I want to understand how much!! For me it is clear that the timing has been affected, because I am getting the CEL and the mentioned code. Now, I am stuck on how to proceed, or what the implications are. The engine starts and there seems not to be any noise. I drove the car around the block to test it for the clutch and there were no signals on anything wrong. So, I guess that the timing could have been affected by a small amount, because if not I should have destroyed the engine, right? Is there any other way to check the timing other than to take it to a dealer? Thanks again

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I hope this turns out for the better buddy! That's got to be a sinking feeling.

Well, it is clearly not nice, but there is some cost associated with learning...I am just happy it was not the full engine!! Maybe I can now learn how to adjust the cam timing :-)

I could rent you my cam timing tool and walk you through the procedures. The dealer probably doesn't know how to do it. (seriously) They are experts at changing engines out!

If Jake will rent you his Cam Timing tools that would be very helpful. You can also buy a tools for this, the Porsche tool is the 9612. The first link below has the exact tool that Porsche uses (or an exact replica) and the second is a ebay source for a tool that does the same thing. I think the Baum tools one is over $400, the other $216. http://www.baumtools.com/pdf/porsche_timing_tools.pdf http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Tool-...motiveQ5fTools The way these tools work is to lock the exhaust cam in place while you set it to the crankshaft/IMS. To do this you have to remove the green caps, one on the intake cam on the driven end of the cams (front of the engine/car on 1-3, and rear of the engine/car on 4-6) and two on the opposite ends of the cams. For 1-3 you lock the crank at TDC, you don't have to buy the tool for this, I use a torqueX wrench that is the same diameter of the tool that fits into the pully on the end of the crank. (if you don't have service manuals you might want to get a set) You can tell that 1-3 is at TDC by the grove on the drive end of the intake cam, it should be pointing to the outside of the engine, if not you need to rotate the crank 360 degrees. Then you have to remove the scavenger oil pump to get at the sprocket that drives the exhasut cam off the IMS by chain. There are four bolts that hold the sprocket to the end of the cam. You have to loosen these. Porsche says to use special pretensioners, that replace the tensioners (3) on the cam to IMS chains and the IMS to crank chains. But the actual tensioners should be sufficient for this unless they are bad. Now the 9612 tool bolts onto the head at the non-drive end where the two caps were removed. Part of the tools fits into the head opening on the intake cam where the green cap was removed to help hold the tool in place. The other end of the tool fits into the grooves on this end of the exhaust cam. The grooves are slightly offset, and the smaller side is towards the outside on the engine. The tool, which is very heavy duty, allows you to rotate the exhaust cam and locks the grooves straight up and down. Remember that the rotation has to be done after the bolts holding the sprocket in place are loosened. Now once the camshaft is held in the proper position, with the grooves straight up and down, narrow side out, and with the crank at TDC, you retighten the sprocket bolts, and the cam timeing is set. I tried to make a tool from a socket to fit into the grooves to do this. The socket fit, but there was no way I could get enough pressure on the socket to hold the tool on the end of the cam, the valve springs put alot of pressure on the cam rotating it. I do have a shade tree mechanic approach that accomplished the same thing without the tool. Not sure if Jake would approve, but here it is. After I reinstalled my head after having a crack fixed I also had a cam timing error. So I set 1-3 at TDC as described above and removed the green cap on the driven end of the intake cam to be able to see the groove on it, and only the green cap on the exhaust cam on the other end (remember that you will have to get new caps as they are hard to get out without damaging them, and they go for about $9.00@). The cam appeared to be 10-20 degrees off. So I loosened the bolts on the sprocket and then took out the pin on the crank pulley and used a socket to rotate the crank in the appropriate direction, you have to figure this out by which way the cam is off. Guesstimated how much to rotate the crank, retightned the bolts on the sprocket, returned the carnk to TDC and checked the end of the cam to see if the grooves wer straight up and down. On the 1-3 side I got it about a perfect as possible on the first try. When I went to do the 4-6 side it took two or three tries to get it just right. Obviously the tool is simpler, but this worked and I did not have to buy the tool. So if Jake will rent you the tool, and it is available when you need it that is the best bet. Or buy a tool. But you can get them set with my method. By the way, the dealer near me had the tools, and said they had not used it in several years. A mechanic showed me the tool so I could see exactly how it worked. He said he would like to let me borrow it, but the dealer would fire him if they found out.

Jake, Dharn55 THANKS A LOT for your inputs. Jake, it would be great if you could rent me the tools. I could give you a deposit for the total value while I have them. I will send you a PM with my email and phone. Dharn55, I do have the service manuals, but I have normally found that unless you have done the procedures at least ones, the manual is difficult to follow. So, once I have the tools, I will rely on you and Jake to do it. Today I reset the code to see if it came back on, and indeed it did. I also got the following info from the scantool, but it only give me info on the cam on Cyl #1, which I guess is not very helpful. But, I guess I will now learn how to set the timing

mmasse - What is the Scantool that you are showing? I have the Durametric, but yours seems to show alot more info than my Durametric.

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Now, now Jake... Not all the techs in the dealer network are retarded!!!! Some are, but not all. I get your point, but I also take offense, because I am at a dealer and know how to time all our engines. Kudos to you guys and your IMS products. We have installed several, very nice product.

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Quick question. Is the cam position sensor plugged in. The fault description you wrote down is incomplete, Circuit High..... high what? resistance? "open circuit". "Above limit value" With your scan tool, can you look at camshaft deviation? If the cam timing is off, you will see it with this value. All the values in your screen shots are of no help. What year is this 996???

I am using a a reader from ScanTool.net What I posted is all the info i get. There are some other pages but the data would show as N/A Porsche52, where are the sensors you refer to...anyway after my scrw up in taking out the IMS cover, it should be no surprise that the timing is of, I guess.

This is the fault printout and diagnosis steps for fault code P0348. Special tool 9637 is a electrical pin-out box. Special tool at Dealer, maybe some indy's have one too. My guess is you have a faulty bank 2 cam sensor and or the signal wire from the sensor to the DME control is indeed shorted to B+. The camshaft position sensors are located next to the green cam plugs you removed to check camshaft timing. They are a two pin sensor, monitor intake camshaft position for each bank. Bank 2 sensor would be on the transmission side of the motor, next to green cam plugs. P0348 Camshaft Position Sensor 2 – Above Limit Diagnosis conditions • Engine running Possible fault cause ♦ Short circuit to B+ ♦ If both CMP sensor signals are missing, the start will take at least 10 seconds. ♦ For safety reasons, the ignition timing is retarded. Affected terminals Terminal III/18 Diagnosis/Troubleshooting Note! Work instruction Display OK If not OK 1 Check signal wire from DME control module, Pin III/18, to CMP sensor for short to B+ ♦ Connect special tool 9637 to wiring harness (DME control module plug). ♦ Remove connector of CMP sensor 2 ♦ Switch on the ignition. ♦ Measure voltage between special tool 9637 pin III/18 and ground. 0 V Repair wiring harness → End. → End.

Porsche52, Why are you guessing the issue is on Bank 2 (passenger side, right?), is there anything on the default code that tells you that. From your previous post I get that the fault description is incomplete, but unfortunately its all I get. Btw, my car is a '02 C4S. I wiil check the sensor just in case. Best

I'm am not guessing the issue is on bank 2, I'm telling you it is. Fault code P0348 is for camshaft position sensor 2. if you had fault code P0343, that would be sensor 1 (bank 1). Pretty cut and dry. If you want to check for short circuit to B+ on the signal line without the pin out box you will have to A. disconnect plug from camshaft position sensor, Bank 2. Turn ignition on. B. using a DVOM (meter) check to see if the signal line is shorted to B+, it should read 0 volts. If you have anything more than that, you have a problem within the wiring harness between senor plug and DME control unit, (chaffing etc...)

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Unfortunately, the tool rental will Jake will not work because of time. He can only send them to me the week after Christmass and i need the car before that ....THANKS A LOT ANYWAY JAKE!!! So, if I don't get this solve this weekend I will have to take it to a repair shop. Dharn55...Can I ask you more details on your shade tree mechanic approach? I do have the factory manuals, but they are really confusing to me. What do I have to disassemble to start the adjustment? From the manuals it seems that you need to disassemble half of the engine. If I understood it correctly, you said to remove the cap Which sprocket are you referring to and how do i get acces to it? In the meantime, can anyone tell me how much would charge a shop to do this? As much as i want to learn ...i need my car back running next week, so I want to be ready for plan B Thanks

Porsche52 - I think you have bank1 and bank 2 mixed up. Bank 1 is the 1-3 cylinders, drivers side (in US) of car, front of car (transmission side) on the top near the green plug, and a real bear to get at. Bank 2 is the 4-6 cylinders, passenger side, top again near the green plug. To get at it you have to remove some misc stuff, maybe the AC compressor, I forget.

Dharn55, can you specify which sprocket are you refering to. Please, check my previous post with your quote. Thanks Porsche52, this means that is the code is P0348 I will only have to check/adjust the timing on bank 2 and not touch at all bank1? Thanks

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This is a 2002 vario cam plus engine.!!! You are thinking of the early vario cam engine.98-2000, The cam position sensors moved from model to model. When standing at the rear of the car, looking into engine compartment. Bank 1 (1-3) is on the left, the Bank 1 cam position sensor is next to the green cam plugs, right behind the main coolant hose (crank pully side of engine). Bank 2 is on the right, the cam position sensor for bank 2 is on the back of the engine (flywheel side). It is next to the green cam plugs as well, very close to the body cross member. The sensor reluctor wheel is on the end of the intake camshaft, (opposite of the sprokets and chains) On the early vario cam engine yes, the sensor wheel was located next to cyl #3 and #4 , this car they are by #1 and #6.

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I do not think your cam timing is off!!! If your cam timing was off you would have more faults than just p0348. You would have p0011, p0021,p1324, p1325, p1340, p1341, . Possible misfire faults etc... I think you have a sensor fault (wiring harness, sensor etc...) Maybe it is time to punt and take it to your local dealer and or independent and have it properly diagnosed. I think if you attempt to adjust cam timing you will not have a good time. DO NOT attempt to adjust cam timing using Dharn55 shadetreee method!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A. it is the wrong method for your engine!!!!!!! B. You cannot adjust Bank 1 cams in car!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is talking about early 98-2000 996/986 engines. The 2002 engine is the first year for vario cam plus, DME 7.8. Totaly different cam timing procedures!!!!!!

Ok, I will check the timing visually again and post findings....you might be right. I was just assuming that it would be much of a coincidence that the sensor or harnes started failing right at the same moment when i screw up in replacing the IMS cover. I assumed that a tooth jumped when i took the IMS cover without taking the tensioners and that was triggering the code...but maybe I am lucky and it is just the sensor. I will report back...THANKS

I apologize, my experience is with a 3.4 engine with VarioCam, not a 3.6 which has VarioCamPlus. Is your car a 3.6 with VarioCamPlus?

yes, mine is a 3.6. Ok, I guess I will keep the appointment at the repair shop!!

Wow, just read through the service manual for the 3.6 VarioCamPlus and they are quite different. The positioning of the grooves on the non-driven ends of the cams is similar, the grooves have to be straight up and down, with the narrow side out when the related cylinder is at TDC, put there are more adjustments and different tools involved for the sprockets on the driven end. Sorry if I caused any confusion or problems.

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How are you visually checking the cam timing. Like I said Dharn55 method is wrong for your engine. The images below kinda suck but they will do for this purpose. When you pull out your green cam plugs, (only pull the 2 shown) opposite end of camshaft sprockets. So for Bank 1 they will be on the front of the engine, below the alternator etc... for bank 2 they will be on the back of the engine (flywheel side). Once you have the plugs removed, you will see the ends of the camshafts. Rotate engine to TDC #1, the crank pully is marked "OT" and there will be a notch in the pully that lines up with a casting mark in the engine case the reads " OT Zyl 1". Fix the pully with pin, through hole marked "OT". You are now on either TDC compression #1 or overlap #1. This is why you must pull the green cam plugs. With the crank fixed @TDC, look at the ends of your camshafts for bank 1, should be very easy to see from front of engine. If the smaller circular cutouts are pointing away from the engine then it can be said that cylinder #1 is on TDC overlap and cylinder #4 is on TDC compression. Now if you had special tool 9686, it should fit in the ends of the bank 1 camshafts at this point. This is how you check cam timing "in car" for this engine. Rotate the crank 360 deg. Pin it, now the smaller circular cutouts for bank 2 should be pointing away from the engine (bank 1 will be pointing toward the engine) you should now be able to insert special tool into bank 2 camshafts. It can now be said that cyl #4 is on TDC overlap and cyl #1 is on TDC compression. It is pretty much a go-no go setup, the tool fits or it doesn't.

If your engine is a 3.6 you do not need the cam timing tools....

Ok, this might be my personal record of stupidity. Following Porsche52's advice, I checked the sensor on Bank 2 and I found that it was disconnected. I might have disconnected it when I took out the green plug ti check the timing the first time, and I completely forgot about it.. This is pretty embarrasing, but at least it was a cheap fix. THANKS a LOT FOR ALL YOUR HELP....and CASE CLOSED

That's what you call a "pwner".

Wow -- I learn't a lot in this thread -- hope I never need the knowledge -- and to all of you -- well done

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Hey, stuff happens. I wouldn't worry about being embarrassed about this because you tackled the RMS/IMS replacement yourself, which is the hard part. I NEVER would have had the guts or knowledge to try it. I'm glad it was a small and simple thing to fix! Well done on the whole project!

OK Tim, I have a question. Do Hondas have RMS and IMS. Just Kidding!!

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No they don't. After the engine and transmission are fitted to the chassis, the whole assembly is triple wrapped in Saran wrap. Then, and only then, the body is placed on the chassis. We may have leaks, but who would know? No visible drips means no leaks! Japanese engineering at it's best! Man, I can't wait for the day I can get rid of my Honda and get a Porsche. I figure the way things are going I can get a 2009 C2S........ in 2023!

Hey Tim - here's an affordable 993 you can tool around in in the meantime (I have no connection to this in any way). This thing has been for sale since well before I bought my 996 & the price just keeps dropping. http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?paId=327918962

I have seen some 996's go in that price range. And there is always a Boxster.

Hey, if you get a 996 or a Boxster you know who can help with thr RMS AND IMS...and not even mention the cam sensor on Bank 2

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Thanks for the link, but I am partial to "water pumpers."

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+1.You tackled a job that most of us wouldn,t do ourselves. Who cares that the ultimate fix was an oversight...you found it and remedied the fix without lots of extra work involved.

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As I always said...if it was not for these forums (Rennlist and Pelican) I would have not not been able to do 1/4 of the projects I did. THANKS to all you guys who contribute with your expertise here!!

Good job on the procedure.. More and more DIY efforts are being made successful due to the forums and our support. I have a DVD that will be finished by March that goes over the entire IMSR procedure start to finish, step by step to include tools used/ needed and etc. This DVD will change the entire procedure.

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In what way will the procedure be different? Different tools? Best to wait til Mar/Apr to upgrade?

The current procedure is the same as what I'll illustrate in the video. We finally have a simple cost effective puller that does the job reliably and thats been the biggest hinderance so far. The process will continually be developed and changed to make it easier, faster and better but I wouldn't expect any further changes for at least a couple of years, thats why I am finally doing the DVD.

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Cheer up, you aren't degreeing the cam At least on my 99 it appears to be just locking it in at factory settings. I would like to see a degreeing option if it were available for the food for thought effect. Degreeing allows you to adjust the powerband up and down in the rpms. Personally I think it's best to let a Porsche mechanic handle your shaky areas. This stuff takes time to soak in. Time will go by and upgrades will get more exotic so some day after all this, your xmas present to yourself could end up being wild cams that will sink your eyes into your head after hitting 4-5k rpms. I do wonder if the timing shifts if the cams aren't removed and it's just an IMS change out. I'm not certain if the chain can jump a tooth with tensioners out. Best of luck to you. Post a pic of your car after it's back on the road and you are satisfied the ordeal is over Porsche52 thanks for the ton of typing to help the man and inform everyone. I would of lost patience way sooner and said DEALER. A thousand years of computer artificial intelligence improvements couldn't generate those answers. Best of all you got me to read my service manual some more

I just changed my IMS bearing (Monday) with the new tool, worked great. Took a bunch of pictures. I will post up later today. Rick 99 996C4 87 944S