Price Check Please

2002 C2 Coupe. Lapis Blue over grey supple leather. 22,000 miles, 2 owner just traded in at a local dealer. It needs (in my opinion) all fluids, filters, belts and the tires changed due to age. Local Porsche dealer records show an oil and battery change a year ago and an RMS fix two years ago. The tires are dated 2004/2005 and have flat spots and are hard as a rock. Very few options. Not even power seats. Just 18" chromed lt wheels, colored caps, three spoke wheel, supple leather and litronics. The option code sticker lists hi-fi sound but it is not fitted with bose. It has tinted windows too. Here are the codes: 225, 288, 411, 424, 446, 490, 601, 696, 762, 939, 982 The car presents really, really well. While it is not my 1st choice on color combo or options it is local, low mileaged and presents well. Here are pics: http://www.findlaytoyota.com/Invento...AA29972S620270 So far I have the dealer down to $24,900 plus fees and taxes, as-is (I would do all the repairs) and there is no trade involved. It is going to the Porsche dealer on Monday for an inpsection. Your thoughts, comments and opinions are appreciated. I getting tired of looking for a car and want one in the driveway. I don't want to settle or get ripped off either. Let's hear it.

Sounds like a good price. I would also add in new wheels and ditch the chrome.

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www.kbb.com gives a trade in value of $21.8K for this car. (However, I made a mistake and typed in 27000 for the mileage and not 22000 and am too lazy to redo the search criteria so the numbers I'm posting are not correct but still applicable.) Private party sale is $24.4K. Car is being offered by Toyota dealer (I gathered from the link you posted) so likely dealer lowballed owner when he traded it in on something else. Might have traded it in cause it needs lots of work. Even if just maintenance work owner was probably looking at several thousand dollars. All fluids, filters, serpentine belt, tires and alignment respresents no little amount of money in parts, supplies and tiime, even if your time. And you will need to pay someone to balance/mount tires and treat the car to a proper 4 wheel alignment. I prefer to have my Porsche tires installed at dealership. I've run into too many indy tire shops that treat my Porche's like a F150 rust bucket to entrust my Porsches to any more indy tire shops. Even if you can and do want to do some of the work yourself, have Porsche dealer give an estimate for the work the car needs and factor that into your offer. Apparently missing the hi-fi sound. This bothers me... Theft recovery, I wonder? Or has some car stereo hammer and chisel monkey (Oh I'm sorry, installer) been at the car? Frankly, based on your post I don't think the car presents all that well at all. Too many things need attention and this among other things bothers me... Be careful, getting tired of looking is a chance to let your guard down, slip up, make a bad decision. The car as you described it is not a $24.9K car, even if this out the door price. Do your own search for similar cars on www.autotrader.com . Search 2001, 2002, and even include 2003 cars and see what turns up. If nothing else it helps to be able to rattle off the details of similar cars for sale to let seller know while he has one buyer (possibly) you standing in front of him right now, this minute, you have many cars available to chose from. Don't rush: Remember there's always another car. Sincerely, Macster.

I did get a quote from the local dealer to do the work. $2,550 which includes: New Belt New Perelli Tires New Coolant Brake Flush New air and cabin filters trans fluid flush new rear deck lid shocks new wipers As for the Hi-fi sound. I thought all that was offered in 2002 was the Bose upgrade. Could there have been something else? I can't see where any modifications were done to the car with respect to the stereo.

Be Careful!! Somehow I think I saw this car when I was looking several months ago. Someone gave me the name of a top Indy shop in Las Vegas since I am in Los Angeles. It was on eBay when I saw it..... I called the Indy and he said he knew the car. One of his customers had bought it from a Las Vegas dealer without a PPI and then later found out it had been hit. He was able to force the dealer to take it back. The repair left the rear end about 1" out of square. I'll try to find the info from before. The car was cosmeticly "better than showroom"... get the frame / alignement checked in case it's the same.....

That is interesting. Nothing wierd shows up on the car fax other than it hasn't been registered the last two years. Maybe I'm missing something on the report. http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory...AA29972S620270 The only thing that felt odd on the car is a steering wheel wobble. I was contributing that to flat spots which you can feel when driving. We took a couple of turns a little fast and the rear end acted a little funny. Again, I contributed that to the tires be hard. The car tracked, pulled and braked straight though. On the interior, the air bag cover on the passenger side is loose and misaligned at the bottom. There is another thread in the 996 forum about it. Perhaps there is an easy way to figure this out. Are there vin stickers on the rear bumper and rear fenders? If so, where are they? Anyone have a picture? There are two local Indy's: Premier Sportscar Service and Carl's Place. Either of those ring a bell? This isn't sounding good but doesn't really suprise me either.

i would run an autocheck as well as the PPI. The PPI might pick up any accident history. i recently sold one of my cars and was surprised to find out my car was clean on carfax but had an accident reported to insurance under autocheck

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Don't know about Vin stickers. Most major body panels have Porsche parts lable stuck to them. Some you can see with panel on the car. Some only if panel removed. CarFax not infallible. Sometimes cars are bought and fixed as a sideline and these repairs are not reported cause it would possibly lower the resale value of the car. Check the doors, body, trunk and engine compartment panels for fit and alignment. Feel under the rubber weather seals for any signs of paint ridges from tape or any paint roughness. Chances are the car has some factory orignal panels and paint so you want to check for any differences between the various panels where panels meet each other and where the panel edge ends under a rubber weather strip/seal. Open engine compartment lid and examine the place with the cover hinges bolt to the body. Look to see if the hinges have been moved (sometimes the hinges are moved to help bring in panel alignment). Get down low and sight straight back some distance from the front tires to the rear tires. Do this on both sides, and from the front and the rear of the car. You're looking for the rear or front wheels to be shifted sideways from each other. The rear wheels want to be directly behind -- though they'll project out further -- the front wheels. If they don't car has been hit and poorly repaired. Open doors and feel long bottom edge of doors and on inside of bottom of door lip for any signs of paint runs, drips. I've seen cars painted where the paint drips have dried into tiny paint "icicles". Very poor paint work. Look inside all wheel wells very carefully. Look for differences in paint finish, texture, color, newness of paint, or any panels or hardware in the wheel wells. Even if everything checks out ok have alignment checked as part of PPI. Ask tech to note how much adjustment has been used to bring car into alignment, assuming it is aligned. If too much adjustment car's been hit and poorly repaired. Alignment adjustment used to bring mis-alignment from poor repair into spec. Porsche forbid this. If a car is aligned after a repair and too much of the existing adjustment required to bring alignment into spec car is supposed to be sent back to body shop for straightening on Celette bench. Or I'm thinking you've found enough reasons to reject this car. There have to be many other cars for sale. One of them is bound to be a good one, better than this one anyhow. Sincerely, Macster.

weird that they took pictures of it filthy dirty outside?

I think it was Carl's place. He was great to me on the phone and kept me from wasting my $$ on a PPI since he knew the car. I think it had a clear carfax. The eBay seller was a "wholesaler" in Las Vegas. Try and search eBay by vin or year. It would have been around September / October. The body looked GREAT and it wasn't until it was up on the alignment rack this came up. Was not about the sheetmetal repairs but the way in which the pan had been pulled / repaired. I certainly could be wrong but do you think it has been sitting the last 2 years? I'm guessing it was being bounced around from dealer to dealer..... Again, Carl was GREAT......

OK, so we had some free time after seeing santa with the kids and we go by the dealership. Being Sunday I knew they would be closed. At first I couldn't find the car and figured they had sold it as there was a buyer looking at it when we left on Saturday. Then my wife spotted it in the service drive which was nice as it was under lights on flat pavement. The car was locked, but my wife and I searched the car for any signs of paintwork. We pulled back the rear quarter window rubber looking for paint lines, laid on the ground looking for over spary under the car, drips on the bottom edges of the rear bumber and absolutely nothing. The panel gaps are perfect when you run the tip of of your finger through them. This seems to be the real deal. Then my wife figures out why it is in the service drive. There is a note on the dash board that says "Art, the car shakes at 65 to 75 mph, have mechanic drive it." Know I felt this too but it really feels like flat spotted/hard tires. Remember they are dated late 2004/early 2005. I'm no expert, but I would swear this car has had zero body work. If it was in an accident it would have had to been due to hitting something hard with the suspension/tires. Either way the car is going to the dealer in the am. I know Tony at Carl's and will call him in the AM too. If there is floor board damage we'll see that on the lift. I'll add checking for air bag codes to the list as well. I'll keep everyone posted.

My two cents.......carfax is totally unreliable. It might be accurate, it might not. That makes it useless. If you are serious about the car, get some different rims on the car and take it for a hard drive. You don't want to discover it still has a shake and a wobble after you have bought it........ Lastly, there are lots of clean cars out there without the drama. I'm risk averse when it comes to buying Porsches and this one would scare me away.

Walk away.

I own a small independent car dealership and can tell you that at $24,900 you aver VERY close to wholesale. Either they want to dump the car since they are a toyota franchise or they've had it long enough aand want to unload They could also be scared of the car and just want rid of it asap before they have to put any money in to it. Those saying that they probably low balled the the guy on trade so you can buy it cheaper, I can only say to that that most everybody looks up kbb and nada and edmunds before trading in their car, so why people think all dealers "steal" all their trades is beyond me.

I've been following the market for a long time, and it's very seldom that a sub ~110k mile MK2 C2 comes up for sale (6 speed coupes are all I look at), for under $26,000 and this car sounds like an outstanding deal. I would probably buy it, if it were me. You can check for accident damage thoroughly after you open the hood, and pull the carpet back a bit. After pulling some data from the on board computers, I wouldn't hesitate. If you were buying the car after all of it's issues are fixed for $28000, you're still getting a pretty decent deal.

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Do not like how quickly you are to dismiss the shake at 65 to 75mph as flat spotted tires. It is true these tires -- I have experience with N rated tires only on my Porsches -- will take a bit of a set if parked hot and if overnight temps drop down. Milder days and cooler nights seem to bring this about more often than hot days and warm nights or cold days and colder nights. But upon startup and drive off the next day the bit of indistinct roughness goes away in a just a few blocks of driving. Unless the car someplace you can drive off car lot and onto highway and hit 65mph or more in just seconds (with cold engine/drivetrain too boot (shame!) I do not accept the cause as flat spotted tires. Now I can tell you from experience with my Boxster that over inflated front tires will cause a high speed vibration that could be attributed to flat spotted tires. Just a few PSI over 29psi (the recommended cold inflation pressure for the 17" tires on my 02 Boxster) will cause this. It feels like some bit of imbalance and had it not appeared "out of the blue" I would have thought so, but the vibration was not present for a while then it was. I believe I had been playing with the tire pressures and put 2 and 2 together and lucky for me adjusted the tire pressures back to what they should be and the vibration symptom gone. If tires are questionable or worse not even N rated, or even if they are N rated but the tires are different front to back, or side to side, I'd like to have new and correct tires mounted and load forced balanced and an alignment done then another test drive. Not sure seller will go for this. You could try to negotiate a lower price by the amount this would cost, but my concern is the new tires, balance, alignment would not eliminate the shake or vibration. And the presence of this even after new tires, balancing and alignment, indicates something more serious underlying the cause of the symptoms. Sincerely, Macster.

Remember.... You said it hadn't been registered for the last 2 years.... Where was it?

OK, Called Tony at Carl's Place. Luckily he had the VIN of the car that was messed up. It is not the same car. Just need to get the car to the dealer or Indy for inspection. I'll keep you posted.

Carfax can give you a reason to say "No." But it can't give you a reason to say "Yes." Something fishy about this car. Make sure the PPI is very thorough.

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That is a very good question. Sincerely, Macster.

The car is at the dealer right now. Should be ready by 4:00pm. All I can tell you is what the carfax shows. It was leased from 2/7/2002 to 8/16/2005. That works out to a 42 month lease. then is looks like it sat at the dealer until 10/12/02005. Carfax says another lease was issued. The car was traded in to the dealer on 12/7/2009. A 50 month lease I guess. The carfax shows it was last registered on 10/19/2006. The dealer shows a service for a RMS in 2007 and battery and oil change in 2008. The mileage is only slightly higher today than it was in 2008. The tires look brand new, but they are dated 2004/2005. The brake pads have 7mm left on them. All signs are pointing the milage being accurate. I've asked the dealer to specificaly list any fault codes, over rev codes, air bag codes and the total engine running hours. The car appears to have simply been an executive car of some sort for its entire life. All the dates and milegae seem to be adding up and I can't see where the car has been damaged. Here is the original craigslist ad. You can see the trade pencil writing on the window: http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/ctd/1499621940.html

Here is the skinny. 6,000 plus type one over revs. zero type two over revs. rear main seal is leaking again. How the hell do you hit 6,000 red lines? The motor had 700ish hours so the milege is right. But damn, a redline every 8 minutes/4 miles. I'm out. back to looking

That's ignition cycles, I think my last C2 had over 8000 of them when I bought it...