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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHGT3 Suspension on 996 C2 (before and after)
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Install exactly what came
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Basically I installed exactly what came from the GT3 stock, parts wise.
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I installed a GT3 Suspension on my buddy's C2 last month.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Took me a little while to figure out what to do but the car is having a 3.6 engine with X51 installed into the 1999 996.
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Don't feel bad........The Racers Group ordered my Kinesis K-28R wheels to spec, they then installed JRZ coilovers and Ben said the same thing.
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Another fact is TRG ordered the wheels from Kinesis and installed the JRZ coilovers at the same time, so even though you THINK its not a proper set-up...it most certainly is.
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Another fact is TRG ordered the wheels from Kinesis and installed the JRZ coilovers at the same time, so even though you THINK its not a proper set-up...it most certainly is.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I don't want to mistate my experience with the other suspensions...I did not have them installed on my car and my comment was based on my impressions from driving or riding with someone during a track session.
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the extra pump and return line supposedly fixed the problem.
Recently I completed the install of a take of 2004 GT3 suspension into my 1999 C2 Aero. All the parts fit right in and don't require changing the wheel carriers, etc. These bolt into our cars just like the ROW M030 does, bolt for bolt.
My car came factory with the US M030 suspension and while that was a nice upgrade from stock after 1 year of playing on the track I wanted a tighter suspension that would provide higher handling limits on the track, but still wanted a streetable daily driver type of car. Also, I wanted the suspension to allow me to align the car and balance it as I deemed necessary.
I test rode in cars with the PSS9s: too soft, X73: more like it, JIC: even better but didn't seem to handle corner transitions and bumps well (my observation as well as the owners) and then JRZs: sweet, perfect but way more than I wanted to spend. Never got to try Motons which I am sure are great.
Overall I am really happy with the results, both from a handling stand point and how the car looks (low). Also, I like the GT3 Bilsteins because if you later want to go to stiffer springs you can simply send them into Bilstein USA and have them revalved to match the new spring rates.
First pic: the GT3 Suspension.
A side by side of the GT3 rear assembly next to the US M030 rear. The GT3 units are much shorter.
Front shot of my car on the alignment rack. Lots of negative camber.
Rear shot on the alignment rack.. guess I can definitely fit wider wheels with more aggressive offsets.
The car profile on US M030, slightly lower than US stock but not much.
Initial alignment settings are set to
F: -2.7 Camber, 0 Toe, Stock GT3 Ride height
R: -2.5 Camber, 4mm total Toe In, Stock GT3 ride height
GT3 front and rear sway bars are set to 1 from full Hard, for now.
And Finally the After shots. Tried to match them up the stock shots as much as possible
everything thing that I used came stock on the GT3. So yes, GT3 and GT2s use H&R springs. The GT3 suspension is height adjustable since the lower spring perch is threaded (just like PSS9s, JRZ, etc). FWIW from the pics of the 4 GT3 shocks you can see that there is still almost 1" left to lower it if you were so inclined. I did it for the handling so decided to leave it at the stock GT3 ride height based on feedback on the GT3 forum.
I bought these used from another member who upgraded his GT3. Sway bars came from Brandywine and the drop links were sourced from another member on this board.
Well suspension feel is very subjective. To me a firm chassis that communicates what is going on between the tire and the road is ideal. I didn't want a plush ride, softer than stock, etc. I wanted what would work better on the track. The GT3 uses much stiffer springs than stock 228 F/573 R and the shocks themselves have very aggressive valving. Some have said the the GT3 shocks are over dampened relative to the springs that they come with. I did not test them on a shock dyno so I can't say. The rear end feels significantly more planted and stiff. Overall it is not harsh to drive on the street at all and I have no regrets in how streetable it is. IMHO this should have been the Sport Suspension option from the factory.
I don't really want to give too much driving impressions based on street driving. I'll be at the track this coming weekend and will post impressions after that.
On the street they feel very good. The car is very crisp on turn in and stays perfectly flat. Right now at the limit (much higher than before and than I really care to explore too much on the street) the car exhibits some understeer. I plan to fine tune the balance on the front and rear sway bar to get this where I like at the track.
I don't want to mistate my experience with the other suspensions...I did not have them installed on my car and my comment was based on my impressions from driving or riding with someone during a track session. My impressions are that the stock GT3 setup (and sway bars) is slightly better for track use than the PSS9 or X73. It is at least equal to if not better than the JIC/Cross but not at the level of the JRZs, Motons, etc.
You need some spacers or aftermarket wheels with more aggressive offsets.
And I'd rather run PSS9s or the X73s than the GT3 suspension on a non-GT3 car. Your car doesn't have the chassis, engine, tranny, nor brakes of the GT3.
Regardless, thx for sharing.
interesting observations and great job. Are you considering lighter wheels? I think your current wheels at 18" are closer to 30 pounds than the Carrera 5 spokes. Shaving 10 pounds of moving weight at each corner will enhance your current set up all the more.
p.s.
if you call Tower Paint and provide them with the paint code they will send you a color match in a decent aerosol spray can that you can use to touch up the stoning on the front of your skirting.
perfectlap
Will absolutely be looking for lighter, wider wheels with considerably more aggressive offsets but for the track not street.
Thanks a ton for the tip on Tower Paint. Will definitely follow up on that.
Ben,
I guess I couldn't expect much more from you than your usual mis informed, over opinionated and cocky responses.
FYI: would love to know what you are basing your statement about the lack of suitability of the C2 chassis for a stiffer suspension like the GT3s. Is it that no one races a 996 based C2 in Grand Am or Koni Challenge using Cup Car suspensions, Motons, etc? I assume they all throw away their brakes, transmissions and engines as well.
I do state in my post that with the aggressive camber the car could use wider wheels with a more aggressive offset, but I'll likely do this purely for track use in order to fit more rubber as opposed to a cool blingy street look.
There ya go.
KJ,
I hope your car comes together. Let me know if I can be of any help. I'll be there this weekend with the SCCA guys instructing at Shenandoah. I'll come by and visit you guys on the main track. Your setup was actually my inspiration for what I wanted to achieve after I felt that I was able to exploit the car in it's stock state. Although what I have done, didn't get anywhere near to the level that your setup has, but was as reasonably close as I could without resorting to a trailer.
what does that have anything to do with it? i've got motons (better than oem gt3) on my car, even before the supercharger, and it totally transforms the car. why wouldn't he want that for his car. are you saying his car is undeserving of such a suspension? look at grand am cup 996/7s (non gt3 cars), they use suspensions better than oem. he obviously tracks the car, unlike your boulevard cruiser. makes no sense.
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Paul,
The car looks great. I considered this myself but wasn't able/willing to pull all the parts together so I went x74. Enjoy, it should be a blast dirve.
Ignore the criticism.
UCrazyKid,
Thanks man. I know a lot of us thought about going this way and the info at first was steering us all wrong regarding what needed to be changed to make it fit. In a word...nothing. It just bolts in and aligns up perfectly. X73/74 was at the top of my list as a 2nd choice if I couldn't go this way.
Hey...this is an Internet forum. When we expose our self's we must be prepared to listen to others opinions, even if they don't match ours. I don't see what is the problem of that (I'm not talking about cheap bashing). If it wasn't so, this place would soon became a very boring one.
Livenupe. Yes, Summit point now has three tracks. 2 of which matter much; Summit Main and Shenandoah circuits. the 3rd is Jefferson and is mostly a course for 1st time track folks and had a skid pad which can be a great learning tool when soaked down by the hoses.
Looking good Paul! Where did you go for the alignment? Sorry, I've been busy with work for past few days and couldn't catch up with you much. Didn't even have a chance to go to Chick-Fil-A meet last friday.
Carlos: I re-read post 9 and frankly I don't see any wrong whit it. IMHO he politely disagree, thats all.
Paul: nice mod. Your car looks much better now.
Paul I'm guessing you're using the stock GT3 monoballs at the front and they're rotated correct?
I'm curious to see your caster values from the allignment...I'm on the fence with the stock upper mounts with all of the talk about possible negatives from rotating them....but I would like more negative camber than I have now.
Did you go monoball in the rear or keep the stock mounts?
Andy
Andy, what negatives are you talking about? You realize that the car comes with ADJUSTABLE strut plates for that very reason?
As for the rear, I would definitely go monoball in the rear. Makes a huge difference.
Andy,
Yes I had the upper struts mounting studs moved to the extra holes to get more negative camber (it's why they are there). My Caster came in at 8.40 and 8.30.
I kept the rear stock. Basically I installed exactly what came from the GT3 stock, parts wise.
Dell, so you removed the rear spring spacer (blue aluminum part) and put in a monoball mount? What happens with all the extra spring slack in the height? I assume the rear dropped by nearly the height of the spacer?
Paul,
Beautiful car. Makes me miss mine. My car was set up very similar to yours except my car had the PSS9s. My car had the GT3 control arms to achieve negative camber. What a hoot to drive.
I can't wait to get another and do a DE at Summit main.
Pete
The whole debate on rotating's effect on caster. My car with extended slots is around -2.25 with 9 degrees of caster but I think that I'm going to do the stock mounts and rotate anyhow as I need more negative camber and the stock mounts are cheaper than 'camber plates' from other companies.
As for the rear...what monoballs are you running back there? Does it make the suspension any more harsh? (my 900lb springs are already pushing it with the wife who daily drives the car!).
Rotating does not come close to effecting caster like shimming does. Think about the suspension geometry (control arm and leading arm) and what rotation versus shimming does. Shimming pushes the CA outwards which in turn moves the leading arm forward and creating an increased postive caster setting. Rotating moves the top of the assembly inward minimally effecting the CA/LA assembly.
Don't feel bad........The Racers Group ordered my Kinesis K-28R wheels to spec, they then installed JRZ coilovers and Ben said the same thing.
He commented on how the offset was wrong....blah..blah..blah....I guess I should call Ben Choi instead of TRG next time I mod my car!
Paul,
Looks very nice! I started down the GT3 path but got cold feet after I assembled the front struts. I ended up going with the M30 instead and have sold most of the GT3 stuff. My front will sometimes scrape unless I enter the concrete entrance gutter to my driveway very slowly with the stock suspension. My guess was the GT3 would lower by about 1.75 inches. I just couldn't go this low on my daily driver, especially during the winter. Just out of curiosity, how much did the GT3 setup end up lowering the car (measured from the ground to the fender lip?
I have no idea what the specs on the wheels are, the front tires are 225/40/18 the rears are 285/30/18.......Austin at TRG would know the specs on the wheels.
My point is my car is set-up for the track, not for posing with the fart-can crowd in the Fast and Furious.
Ben how many track days have you spent with your 996 so far? I'm assuming you have tracked your 996 more than the all the guys combined at The Racers Group??
Since you know more about suspension and the proper tire and rim set-up than they do right??
Here is a picture of a TRG 996 set-up for the track, wheels are tucked in tight just like my set-up.
www.theracersgroup.com
I think I'll call TRG and tell them that according to Benjamin Choi they don't know what they are doing and that they should have installed wider wheels with a more aggressive offset or at the very least some wheel spacers.
Ben if you don't have anything nice to say about peoples mods....then keep it to yourself.
Just because Paul doesn't own a GT-3 doesn't mean he shouldn't make it handle better, your comments towards him were condescending as were your ignorant remarks about my car when I posted pictures.
Ben lets see some pictures of your modified 996 so we can critique your god-like choices.
Thanks Paul. I am at about 26.5" with stock 18's and new tires with the M030. The GT3 would have been too low for me. If only the front did not have such a long overhang...
Had the car at Summit Point Shenandoah Circuit this past Saturday. The car felt absolutely brilliant. Turn in was crisp, neutral thru the corner and exit. Basically everything it did well before but all done at a much higher limit. Since it was only one day event and I also had 2 students I didn't have time to make sway bar adjustments and I was also getting used to the new handling. Hopefully next 2 day event will allow me to make a few tweeks... front could be softer/rear could be stiffer. Aiming for balance.
Unfortunately, I don't previous lap times from this course but the new lap times were 1:40 which is Redline Time Attack winning time for the course. I'll be at Summit Point Main course in a few weeks and will be able to compare old to new lap times with the only difference being the suspension. (hopefully it won't rain).
Let's stick to the facts instead of trying to compensate for something you're lacking cuz again, you ain't talented/skilled enough to make racing your 911 a career just like 99.999999999999999% of the rest of us in the world. my tracking or not tracking or going to a super sweet shop like TRG has nothing to do with your car's wheels looking off kilter as set on the lowered chassis.
Fact: You bought a set of wheels from the vaunted TRG shop, yet you have no idea what specs the wheels are. and a simpleton like me can easily visually see that your rears and fronts... are in-set RV car styles. pics don't lie.
Were you guys like one of the hs nerds who never got any and now that you've run into money all you did was spend it on cars v. some must needed therapy?
j/k
Dude if you have so much advice, I have a question, are you going to move out of your mom's house soon...
I think people on here are pretty nice to you despite your constant rudeness, once in awhile your pretty funny, but not nearly enough to put up with reading the rest of your posts .... Does rennlist have an ignore feature???????????
Oh and by the way when you said "vaunted TRG shop" it made no sense since to vaunt means to boast???? I doubt even you understand what the hell you are talking about.
"Main Entry: 1vaunt
Pronunciation: 'vont, 'v�nt
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French vanter, from Late Latin vanitare, frequentative of Latin *vanare, from vanus vain
intransitive verb : to make a vain display of one's own worth or attainments : BRAG
transitive verb : to call attention to pridefully and often boastfully <people who vaunt their ingenuity>"
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/vaunted
Why, yes it does.
Click on the offending poster's Username,
Select View Public Profile.
At this screen you can add the poster to your "ignore list".
Want to guess who prompted me to use this feature?
From the looks of things Ben is up to his same antics that I placed him on my IGNORE list for. It's quite the nice feature. You never have to see anything again that he posts. God bless the ignore feature
All you have to do is click on their name and from the drop down menu select "add 'x' to your buddy list". That will actually take you to the buddy AND ignore list page. Just place the offending person in the ignore list and VOILA!
the IGNORE feature is useful BUT sometimes you just have to read it so you can drop some REAL knowledge. it does a disservice to the board by staying quiet. in the end, any educated person will be able to distinguish what is good information and what is trash.
Finally! After more than 1000 posts by Mr. Ben, we get to see pics of his rider.
The comments/criticisms comes down to the authority of the source. Understand where it's coming from and take it for what it is. Although, the "gangsta" speak is pretty hilarious in the context of p-cars.
There are a lot of performance "upgrades" out there that can make these cars "look" fast. Plenty of "upgrades" will make these cars "sound" fast. Some "upgrades", just fall under the "bling" category.
Finally, there are genuine upgrates that "are" fast.
This upgrade falls into the final category. Nice job!!
The facts are you know nothing about a proper track set-up for a 996 and TRG knows EXACTLY what works for a tracked 996.
Another fact is TRG ordered the wheels from Kinesis and installed the JRZ coilovers at the same time, so even though you THINK its not a proper set-up...it most certainly is.
As far as you being a simpleton..............whatever.......... and I guess we now know where your vast expertise lies...............in R.V cars!!!!
As far as nerds go.........your the guy wearing a "wifebeater".
Hey everyone... yeah I did hit the track I think 2 times after the susp swap. Car handled really really well as one would have expected. Unfortunately my motor did go poof. Took me a little while to figure out what to do but the car is having a 3.6 engine with X51 installed into the 1999 996. Should be a whole bunch to report there.
My car has been down since Aug 4th, miss it.
Was all ready to do the 3.4 reman and then my buddy with a 3.4 in his boxster started the evil tempation of a bigger engine since the shop he used knows how to do it.
I signed up with Roock in Atlanta to put a standard 3.6 in and then got really really lucky when a very reasonably priced 3.6 x51 popped up and we snagged it for my car.
The car is going to stay throttle cable (gets port matched to fit the x51 opening) and my dme will be reflashed with the 3.6 x51 programming and then dyno tuned. The VC+ is managed by a seperate soft controller. Electronically the only thing that I lose is cruise control but that may be solved before it is all done.
Mind you I am just the guy paying not the one doing the work. I am in DC and my car is in Atlanta getting this done. Wish I could stop in and watch the progress.
-Paul
Paul, I didn't realize that your motor went (or I plain forgot in my old age
). Do you know the cause of it? Could it be due to the new suspension ability outperforming the limits of a wet sump system?
Here's wishing you a speedy return to the track!
It certainly is NOT the case of the suspension outperforming the limits of the wet sump system! JimBs race car and my race car both have much more aggressive suspension set-ups than Paul. Also, the old Grand-Am cup teams ran the wet sump 996s effectively and reliably in a pro-series.
That was such an "odd" question Dell. I expect better from you.
-KJ
I'll take advantage of my low status on this board and the fact that the Rennlist community doesn't have high expectations of me and ask......
Did the Grand-Am teams make any modifications to the engine to compensate for the lack of a dry sump?????
Yeah, I don't know about the higher lateral g's causing the problem. But could they have contributed to it... I am not qualified to say. For the record, I have spent a lot of time this season at a counter clockwise course with a few connected left handers. So it did cross my mind.
My engine malady started as an all of sudden dash lighting up, with serious engine shake/mis and whump whump whump noise. To a later terminal diagnosis of the Cam Chain breaking and internal naughty bits touching and the engine no longer turning with some help.
doesn't help dell. just adds fuel to the fire.
i have jimB's old motons, 700/900 lbs springs, nitto nt01s and kumho v710s. no wet sump problems here. forgot to mention... i have ~10 track miles and the odo is reading 98K. leakdown test all show very good numbers. i do have an x51 sump baffle for added insurance though.
Geez, some of y'all must be working hard this week to see past dry humor. And from me no less.
Yes, I know what fire. Yes, I know the wet sump engine can do well on the track. Yes, I realize that I need to add a smiley to make humor implicit. Yes, I realize it is friday and people can get a bit lost.
Time for an early retirement to the bottle
...and you are right. the argument is BS. While the dry sump system is superior on the track, it does not meant the wet pumper can't run well. People just infer that.....ignorantly.
Bbailey (used to run a grand am 996) said most 996s were equipped with the oiling kit from PMNA. comprised of the x51 oil pan baffle, oil pump and return lines. on hard left and sustained turns the oil can accumulate on the right side of the engine. the extra pump and return line supposedly fixed the problem. if you are running ovals then get the kit (if it is still available, i think 997 GAC used them) otherwise just upgrade to the x51 oil pan.
Carlos, you really are making no sense today but I will just pretent like this dialogue hasn't happened. I'd like to think that some people are smart enough to know either a) there is no possible way somebody that has been around as long as I could be "trolling"; b) that it was a joke and didn't take it personally; or c)believe it to be an honest question (which it CAN be) that DESERVES an answer.
Everything ok today with you? I know we have a great mutual respect for eachother so forgive me if I am a bit stumped with your interpretation of my attempt at friday dry humor.
i am perfectly fine, thank you very much. i was not the only one who thought your comments was not even a remote attempt to be humourous... especially without any emoticons.
trolling, as i see it, is one's intent to stir things up. your "question" was inflammatory since you knew it wasn't the case and that you even confessed that you were just playing around.
i have respect for you too dell but i was just calling it like i saw it.
Stir things up? Imflamatory? My, you wet pumpers sure do get your feelings hurt easily by some trivial comments. I made an attempt to claim that his new setup was so far superior that his engine couldn't withstand all the grip it offered. It's more of compliment to his setup rather than an attack on his oiling system. Geez, so sensitive. Did Paul get offended? That should help explain how far you blew this out of proportion.
With that said though, I thoroughly apologize if you are offended by my comments.
haha dude, no apology is needed because my feelings have not even been remotely hurt. you give yourself waaay too much credit...and i'm not the one who's being defensive
my, you've gotten uppitty since you've gotten that gt3
. BTW, your gt3 is a wet pumper too
oh please, now you are really diggin deep.
you don't hold a monopoly on calling people out when you think they are wrong, nor do you hold a monopoly on yanking someone's chain
. just a taste of your own medicine.
Hey, I didn't get offended. And I actually took Dell's post as a semi serious question that I tried to answer. After all, It is not like it is a myth about oil starvation with high g-loads or the factory wouldn't have invented an oiling kit and provided an opinion on the matter. But of course tons of folks take their car to DE's and more importanly have campainged their 996 in a race series and have not had engine problems.
However, is a baffled oil pan; x51 or brey krause cheap insurance and piece of mind. Absolutely if you have an improved suspension and push your car on the track.
These are cars. Things will break on them when you use them the way the engineers really meant. No car of any brand or make is bullet proof.
BTW: I have a real strong opinion now about the 996s and supposed engines blowing up....By and large, I still feel that they are pretty darn reliable and that they don't just blow up, but lots of people have had things break on the engine that no one knows how to diagnose and fix and simply get a new engine. In my case, my engine could have been fixed (anyone ever break a timing belt on any interference car and get it fixed? sure ya did), but the problem is that it would have cost as much as replacing the engine so why bother.
All righty then.. I have been up for 2 days straight.. See all next week.
-Paul
Hey folks sorry to resurrect the dead. I got my car back yesterday. Drove it to DC from Atlanta with a 3.6L singing where the 3.4 used to be. 1st impressions after a 10hr drive. Noticeable torque increase in the bottom end and when the Variocam + kicks in it is a nice big push to the redline much more so than with the 3.4. Overall very happy with it. Will start up a new thread and post some more info about what was done and a picture of my old engine with a connecting rod trying to escape from the engine block.
-Paul
Paul,
thx for the update.... the 3.6 must really haul in your 99 c2... I hear that conversion quite arduous.... what was the total co$t if you don't mind me asking?
I'll start a new thread with all the info... It cost about 1K less than just getting a 3.4 from porsche and having it installed. Many will dissagree but to me it was worth it as opposed to just replacing like with like. After all, if I am going to drop 10-11K then I should at least get some newfound performance.
Cruised home at 80-90 plus where traffic allowed. Of course I had more than a few runs up the speedo when no-one was in sight for miles. Used my cruise when tired. The temps stayed put and got 27mpg at that speed. Oh yeah and it is fast as heck.
that's great. i am thinking of going to a 3.6 when my 3.4 blows but it doesn't seem to want to give up.
your car is a 99 right? i am very interested in how you integrated the cable throttle to an egas engine.
totally... the 99's were quick already due to lower weight and cable throttle.... the 3.6 must be a nice upgrade... and I bet its so trorqued out you don't have to modify it at all via chip or anything like that...
Inspired by Paul, convinced by Dell, I did the same modification as Paul to my 2000 C2 Cab. I got Dell's used stock GT3 coilovers and had them installed on my car (I did already have the GT3 sway bars). The GT3 coilovers replaced stock shocks with H&R lowering springs. Thanks to both Paul and Dell for their patience; I had a lot of questions!
The ride height and sway bars are set to stock GT3 settings. Latter means middle of 5 holes up front and 2nd to soft of 4 holes in the rear.
I went for an extensive test drive yesterday afternoon through the mountains of the Shenandoah Valley (45 Fahrenheit, dry roads). It's amazing how precise the car now handles! The ride is harsh but not worse and much more balanced than with the H&R lowering springs on stock shocks. IMO, that's how every 911 should get delivered! I really look forward to my first DE event with the new suspension in early March.
Below pfd shows the initial and final alignment numbers and the garage pictures the car before the install with the H&Rs, the other pics the car after the suspension upgrade.
The difference in ride height is not much (a little lower now) but the feel of the car has completely changed. It's worth to mention that the new suspension reduces the dipping of the nose under hard braking so I do have more control over the car while braking which clearly helps to reduce understeer when trail braking into turns.
I did further swap my spacers so I'm now running 15mm in the front and 7mm in the rear. However, I still had one episode of brief rubbing in the rear over a high speed hump downhill so I might get my fenders rolled.
FIY: Stock sway bar setting is actually 1 from full stiff both front and rear. So you'd need to go 1 adjustment stiffer both front and rear to be at the stock GT3 settings.
Good to see you're enjoying the transformation of the car.
Andy
Andy, the Porsche 996 technical manual defines stock/street settings for the GT3 sway bars that the front bar needs to be set to the center position and the rear to the second softest (see below pdf). That's what I was referring as stock GT3 setting. Harold
Weird...maybe the MKI specs and MKII specs are different? I was under my friends MKII GT3 on delivery day checking it out with him and noted one from full stiff both front and rear.
They're there to be tuned with anyhow so I'm sure you'll be changing them around a bit just to get a feel for what they'll do.
Sorry if my info is wrong.
Gents,
I'm getting ready to make this transition. I currently have the Bilstein Sports and H&R lowering springs.
One question I have is are the GT3 upper mounting plates direct bolt on to the 996? Particularly '02 for me?
One of the listers is passing his 2004 GT3 Springs and Struts to me.
Thanks
Mike, I'm positive that the GT3 front upper mounting plates are direct bolt on to any C2 (MK1 and MK2) but Paul should be able to confirm as he used the original GT3 plates. I did use Tarret front camber plates as a lot of the GT3 guys re-use their plates when they upgrade their suspension.
http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...lta-detail.htm
In case anyone is interested, I have cup car Bilstiens available. I'm about to have them re-built by Bilstein and can have them valved to any spring rate you want. They would not come with springs or perches.
You'd need the rear sway bar bracket if you wanted to set your C2 up like a GT3 or Cup.
Mike,
Did some checking in the box and you will have to get the front upper plates. Reused stock OEM GT3 for Motons. Rears are complete however, sitting on OEM rubber disc at the top (Not monoball).
Hope this helps.
Mike,
I installed a GT3 Suspension on my buddy's C2 last month. Do your GT3 shocks come with stabilizer blocks (where you hook up the droplink)? If not, you can order them direct from Porsche motorsport.
I followed all the measurements from GT3 spec. In order to get the lowest front ride height (about 650mm), I need to drop the pre-load on the front spring to max (almost no preload when the car is on stands). Which made the car not as stiff as GT3 ride!!
Paul and hwk72, did you have same issue? I wonder if we can drop the strut another inch into the wheel carrier and have an extra inch preload on the spring for more front end stiffness?
thx
MTB
Thanks for the info MTB. I'm still weighing my options. This sure is one of the best setup we could do on our suspensions. I'm planing to stick with all OEM parts. I made this list below of what I think I need:
996 343 011 91 FRONT CAMBER PLATES $238 EACH (2 ea)
996 333 059 03 REAR CAMBER PLATES $140 EACH (2 ea)
996 343 701 90 FRONT ANTI-SWAY BAR $248 (1 ea)
996 333 701 90 REAR ANTI-SWAY BAR $224 (1 ea)
996 333 069 90 DROP LINKS 2 $167 PAIR?
999 984 624 09 NUT, DROP LINK (2 ea)
996 333 792 21 BUSHING $8.90 (2ea)
996 333 777 01 CLAMP $3.00 EA (2ea)
900 378 055 09 BOLT, CLAMP $1.75 (4ea)
TOTAL $1429
Mike,
The GT3 set up does not come with rear camber plate. The mount/rubber mount (996 333 059 03) is exactly the same as C2/4 or 4S, so do not waste your $$. For the front, it has more parts go with the camber plate...
Also for the swaybar, you do not need new clamps and bolts, they are same as what you have on your car.
FYI
MTB
not sure who quoted you those prices but Suncoast quoted me $150 each for the front camber plates just a few weeks ago. If you didn't already check with them for the rest it might save you a few bucks.
I just did the automated price check @ PelicanParts.com with those part nos to get an idea of what will my total expense will be to do this upgrade.
Thanks for the tip.
Both swaybars. The swaybars are bigger in diameters. The outside diameters for the bushings are same as C2, just the ID are bigger for bigger swaybars.
FYI
MTB
Carrera Mike,
Just to be clear.... MTB is saying that you only need the corresponding swaybar bushings to go with the bigger GT3 swaybars... The bushings are thinner to allow a thicker bar to sit inside the same bar mount/clamp that you already have today. Hope that helps.
