Why don't we hear anything about the RMS issue here in Europe?

I've been browsing and posting the Swedish Porsche Club forum over a year now and you can barely find anything regarding the RMS issue! I asked a friend who used to own a 996 if he was aware of this problem but, nope! But however, he did recall something about a small oil leak Porsche Center discovered themselves while doing a service on the car, it wasn't a big a deal at all though. I find this very strange, what's different with the American models other then the bumperettes and minor modifications really? Does Porsche Europe take care of the issues in another way then the Americans? Maybe Porsche Europe is more keen on solving car issues faster then Americans? Is Porsche America going downhill due to not taking care of their cars?

how many european 996s are on the road and of those, how much are they driven? i was in europe lately and saw very few porsches, nevermind 996s. it's all in the numbers.

You're kidding right? Well, to put it the other way around, I've been to San Francisco twice and I barely saw any Porsches at all?

I believe in GB there is a major initiative underway to survey owners to determine the extent of the RMS issue and then begin to make the information public to put some pressure on Porsche to address the issue. There has even been some discussion of a lawsuit, but I'm not sure where that is. Check with Scouser. He has a lot of info on what is going on.

If you look at the UK message board boxa.net you will see the same reports you see on this board.

Same for PCGB. Maybe it's called something different in Sweden ;-)

i'm using your logic. because you have a friend who once owned a 996 and you've checked the "swedish board" for the last year, this hardly makes a consensus. i don't have an rms problem (yet) but i know of too many people who've had one--and it's not because pcna is going down hill....

Got a phone call from the workshop today, informing me that I qualified to be the latest member of the famous "RMS FAILED CLUB". 4 Months old and 10 500 Km. Fortunately I don't have to pay anything.

How long does it take to fix?

I think there would only be a basis for a lawsuit if Porsche did not take care of the problem. As far as I know, no one has complained about Porsche not being responsive to the issue, at least in the US. My recollection is that Porsche fixed cars with RMS issues that were out of warranty. So, Porsche has been responsive. It's just unfortunate that they haven't been able to come up with a permanent fix.

Here's a link to the PCGB thread regarding the survey. http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=51667

Hmmmmm.....I thought I had read somewhere (poss on RennTech) that the problem had been fixed on MY04 onwards cars !!!! the post from Stef above is very worrying !!!!

Purscha just had an RMS leak in his '04 C2 with 7k miles.

Speaking to an engineer about this matter. He told me that porsche has made a sealing considering cold weather and also dry. When you use the car on higher temperatures, it might be a leak. The material was not design to suport high temperatures. So I guess this could happen to anyone that lives in a Hot point.

Except that I have had 4 and I live in the UK.

Well, first of all, it isn't PCNA's fault that we have so many RMS leaks. And I don't think many people are complaining about how PCNA handles these. Mine went at about 800 miles. I got profuse apologies, a new Cayenne S to drive for a week, and my car was fixed. So that's not the issue. And AFAIK, I think we do get the same engine as the rest of the world. I remember when the 03s came out people said it was fixed, but it was just a matter of time (little time) before the 03s started leaking, too. In my case, mine started leaking in the winter.

The RMS problems seem to include some 04 this had me think twice about a 996

Are you kidding? Last I checked PCNA was the authorized body representing Porsche in the US therefore they deserve to hear every single rant and rave any 996 or Porsche owner has. Even though they may not have designed the problem they are the ones we must hold accoutable; who else should we voice our problems to???? PCNA is not doing anyone a favor my acting nicely and giving out loaners, etc, when they have KNOWN ABOUT THIS PROBLEM FOR YEARS . When my Mitsubishi 3000GTVR-4 is in the shop they also apologize and give me a loaner car. The issue here is that Porsche has a MAJOR design defect in their basic engine design. This problem seems to be prevalent in the Boxster engine as well. My understanding is that the Boxster's engine and the 996 engine are very similar and therefore share the same RMS problem. The other day I read on rennlist about an new 997 in the shop suffering from RMS leak. The 997's engine shares the same basic design of the 3.4 and 3.6 liter engines found in the 996. If this leak is the case, we are not complaining loud enough and holding PCNA accountable because they clearly did not fix the problem with the 997 redesign. Remember, North America is, by far, the largest P-car market in the world and has the most influence with Porsche in Germany. Because we have so much market pull, PCNA has immense influence in Stuggart, they have known about this problem, and did not address it by finding a lasting solution to our problems or redesigning a problem. Before owning my 996, I didn't even know what a Rear Main Seal is. Now, everytime I back it out of the garage, I take a look and see if there is any oil on the ground. Although Porsche makes incredible cars, they are really failing the faithfull with solutions that seem to be temporary rather than permanent. I wanted to keep my 996 for a long, long time, but don't know if replacement parts and engines will be available for an RMS leak 20 years from now. Bobby

I don't think you are the only one. I look when I pull into the garage because I have a power steering rack leak from the seals, and when the rubber boots for the tie rods get too full of power steering fluid it goes past the clamps and dumps a load on the garage floor. Then I know it is time to fill up the power steering reservoir which is a pain to get to on a Boxster. This is a problem with the early Boxsters. My Boxster friend Jean had 5 replacement seals. He finally bought a floor jack and if he saw what looked like oil he would take a picture and email it to me. I think for a while he was sleeping under the car.

The temp thing makes no sense. I live in MN!

the main issue which I don't think anyone knows is if the RMS is the cause of engine failuires... if an RMS is replaced 3 or 4 times.. porsche finally replaces the engine... which doesn't make sense to me.. that's $15k vs $800.. it's hush hush at porsche about it all... the main question and concern is, is the RMS the cause of engine failuires? regardless if porsche fixes RMS out of warranty or not.. they DO NOT cover replacement engines out of warranty (trust me i know) so if porsche fixes 4 RMSes under warranty, and then the engine explodes after the warranty goes out.. the question is.. is this the fault of a faulty engine/rms issue? it seems like nobody really knows what's going on.. nor anyone has taken apart a faulty engine or rms ravaged engine to see the correllation... porsche is absolutely no help whatsoever... they won't admit to anything.. it will require a lawsuit with "discovery" to bring these details to fact... a lawsuit will be the only way.. otherwise porsche will continue hiding everything and bandaiding it all... honestly, the future of the 996 in 5-10 years.. it's hard to say... when the cost of the engine replacement, costs more than the car itself... what will become of these cars...

I think it's because there are more whiner's here in america that care to share their problems with their Porsche than there are those of us who have positive experiences. As I have said before, I do not beleive the RMS issue is as major of a problems that some of these boards make it out to be. I also believe that we have alot of incompetant Porsche Techs here in the States that wrongly diagnose ANY oil leaak as a RMS problems because the book says it is. Of the more than 100,000 996's sold, a few RMS problems does not define the car. I feel bad for those that have experienced it, but the majority of Porsche owner's do not have the problem and should not worry about it.

The sound voice of reason emerges again from the mist of the RMS paradigm!!

bobporsche996, An RMS failure does not cause an engine failure. When the Porsche technician diagnoses the problem, he (or she) uses a special tool to measure the concentricity between the seal bore in the engine case and the crankshaft. If this measurement is beyond specification (0.3 mm I believe), the engine is replaced with a remanufactured one, as putting a new seal in an engine with excessive out-of-concentricity will just lead to another seal failure. I know because I am in the "Failed RMS Club" with a remanufactured engine due to this phenomenon. I hope this clears it up.

My 04 C2 with 20,000 kms , failed. It happens.....Should it NO , but are we to do? They fix it under warranty.....8 hours later its not the dealers problem anymore , until it happens again.I have been told that the same will and has happend in the 997 .Porsche knows this is a problem , but what are they to do redesign the motor and replace it everycar that had the issue?? Somehow i can't see them doing that. As long as they are fixing it everytime it happens (warranty cars only) we cant do a thing.I would like to know whar percentage does leak tho.

Well, they had the ability to fix this problem when they switched from the 3.4 to the 3.6. They definately should have fixed it in the new 997 design but did not. Warranty work is fine, but what about when the warranty is up????? Bobby

[QUOTE=JustAnotherPorsche]I think it's because there are more whiner's here in america that care to share their problems with their Porsche than there are those of us who have positive experiences. As I have said before, I do not beleive the RMS issue is as major of a problems that some of these boards make it out to be.] I think that a lot of people on this board and the 986 board would disagree with your statement. I had a 996, and it didn't have RMS issues, but there are enough people on this board complaining of RMS problems to raise a red flag... of course on any message board like this you hear more about problems than anything else...that is why a lot of the people come here, to solve problems they are having with their cars, not because they are a bunch of "whiners" as you put it. That said, it is quite alarming how many people on this [compared to the oodles of people not on Rennlist] small community have had problems--how many people out there have RMS issues and just complain to their dealers about it? Looking at a relatively small production run for the newer H20 cooled engines, [compared to Ford, GM, Audi/VW, etc] it would be interesting to see what the percentage of cars coming in for RMS repair are and how many get rebuilt engines. Imagine if Honda Accords had engines that grenaded in 2-3% of their annual production--people would raise hell and a small percentage of a huge production number means lots of people blowing engines!

See thats the point when your warranty is up, so is your faith is Porsche , I have heard before that they have repaired this problem out of warranty but that doesnt matter...This is just another example of putting profit befor the client.I guess the question is what are we as endusers going to do about it..........NOTHING ......we buy the new P-CAR when it comes out

I think that a lot of people on this board and the 986 board would disagree with you. I had a 996, and it didn't have RMS issues, and of course on any message board like this you hear more about problems than anything else...that is why a lot of the people come here, to solve problems they are having with their cars. I have no doubt that many people on this board and other similar forums would disagree with that statement about the RMS issue. The fact is that these type of boards are used primarily by people who have problems. Most Porsche owners don't have problems and don't even post on boards like this one. If you go to an automibile service department, what are you going to see? Probably cars that have problems and are being repaired. It's like taking a "how do you feel" survey in a Hospital's Emergency Room ad being surprised that most of the people don't feel so well.

I've been on many car boards myself for various other models of vehicles i've owned, many where not a single problem has been brought up in months with any vehicle... thousands of members posting messages, where less than 1% were complaints about anything... simply enthusiasts of the vehicle all brought together in an online forum... I don't see how rennlist is any different... ..to assume that the majority of people on this board are only here because of problems with their vehicle is quite a biased statement imho... of course, i of course don't have much room to speak, but for everyone else here i feel it's a fair assumption

I routinely talk about how much I love my car and so do many on this board--I was merely trying to put things into perspective for the new poster with 11 posts who came out attacking people who had RMS issues "whiners" and trying to downplay a very real problem in my eyes--I probably did not word my statement well above, so sorry if there is any misconception; I have just noticed that a lot of the newer posters come here to ask about advice for a problem because of all of the knowledge here... Didn't mean to paint a picture that everyone here complains about their cars, but merely inferred that in an online forum like this one may see more frequent posts about problems than people putting up a post just saying "hey just wanted to post that my car is great and no problems"...I think I'll just cut myself off on that one since I am having trouble expressing myself today [too much beer last night I think ] At any rate, I love Porsche, loved my 996, love my current 993 and I'm happy to be a part of this forum--just didn't want to let the comment that "I think it's because there are more whiner's here in america that care to share their problems with their Porsche than there are those of us who have positive experiences" slide without identifying the fact that I think the people that complain about RMS have every right to think that there is some inherent design flaw given as many problems as people have posted here..... OK I'm done

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Right on dude!

Having been to Sweden several times when doing work for Ericsson maybe Americans complain more because we are becoming a service economy and expect excellent customer service...something I found lacking in Sweden I think that more problems exist than we know because most 996 owners are not like Porsche owners of old. When I had my 993 I learned every detail of the car and knew that any technical question I posted on the 993 forum would receive an immediate correct answer. I have met many 993 owners in my daily travels and virtually every one of them knew about Rennlist. I have encountered even more 996 owners, however, who know NOTHING about their cars. They don't know the evolution of the 911 or even that the previous generation cars were air/oil cooled. I suspect that these owners don't know anything about Rennlist, don't ask their dealership to check for RMS issues (especially true for cars out of warranty). That is not true of the people on this board but I would venture that this board and others represents a much smaller percentage of 996 owners than the percentage of owners posting on the 993 forums. I'm not here to bash the 996. I like the 996 and absolutely love the 997. The latter model 996 is a better car than the 993 in virtually every way (there, I've said it). I can't help but feel, however, that the RMS issues have yet to run their course. Say what you will about the CEL issues, valves, etc. on the 993's...at least they can be fixed at a somewhat "reasonable expense" and don't involve engine replacement. I'm looking for another 993 because I feel like I can predict what the car's maintenance requirements will be. If Porsche can get the RMS issues fixed I'll buy an '03 right now...seriously. Until then, I'll stick with the 993. BTW: The December '04 issue of 911 & Porsche World has a great article on the potential affects of this issue on future collectability and resale values.

The Swedes don't have time to complain about Porsches, They're too busy trying to get their Saabs started.

So I am starting to wonder when these newer 911's will become the "high maintainence" Porsche models relieving the burden from my 928 I would like to buy either a 993 or early 996 but jeez, this is scary! I have to take a little issue with the 993 valve guides, I don't consider a $6,000+ repair on a low milage air cooled flat six a "reasonable cost" for repair. At this point you are getting close to 20% of the cars value. Is there a feel for what percentage of 996's have RMS issues? It seems to get talked about here a whole lot. I just find it kind of hard to believe nobody can put a fair number to it. I would just like to know what my approximate odds are.

Unfortunately, with odds - Murphey's law rules; at least in my experiences. If the chances are I won't get it (whatever), I will........... Go figure... :-(

I don't feel that $6000 is very reasonable either...it's just a lot better than a $15K (the current figure which will probably go higher when Porsche quites subsidizing the replacement) engine swap for an incurable RMS problem.