2 BLOWN ENGINES & $37,000+ in REPAIRS in LESS THAN 1000 MILES on my 99 996

I've just about had it with porsche.... In my life thus-far, I've owned over 20 vehicles, including many semi-exotics, with the exception of a porsche, and have never, ever encountered the problems I've had than with this vehicle. When I purchased my fully loaded 99 a few months ago at 48,300 miles, it passed the carfax check with flying colors, brought it in to an authorized porsche maintenance dealer for a checkup and they said it was in excellent condition, with no problems, so I fell in love and bought it.. I've owned many european cars with 150,000+ miles and have never had any real problems, so I didn't think it being out of warranty at 48,300 miles to be a major issue... boy was I wrong... 300 miles later - clutch, flywheel, pressureplate explodes on me into pieces without knowledge - $3,200 for repair, parts, and labor. (Also had an oil change, at the same time to make sure car was in the best running condition.. possible) 350 miles later - temperature gauge starts getting higher and higher on me.. get it towed to repair shop... radiator and misc parts around it needs to be replaced... $700 in labor and parts.. 400 miles later - starter goes bad on me - $600 in labor and repair 650 miles later - while driving on the freeway in 4th gear at 70mph with all the other traffic, all of a sudden, the check engine light comes on, and before I have a chance to pull over to the side, a huge plume of smoke comes out of the rear of my vehicle... I pull over to the side, and notice fire coming out my exhaust... I notice my entire engine compartment on fire from coolant and oil completely inside and outside the my rear of the vehicle... someone called the fire department and had to put out the fire on the side of the freeway... - $13,000 for repair, labor, used engine with 9k miles, since porsche wouldn't take back the core, because it threw a rod and cracked, (tried to save $6,000) electrical housings, etc.. and everything else that blew up in the engine compartment... 900 miles later - while backing up into a parking place, I notice smoke coming out of the rear yet again... my car is on fire AGAIN... the police drive by and call the fire department, and they put out my vehicle again... apparently one of the coolant hoses had a leak, which eventually caused the fire... - $1300 for replacement and repair Add another $2,000 for misc parts, service problems, oil changes, etc.. in my first 1,000 miles of driving.. 1150 miles later - while driving, my temperature gauge starts flashing red.. everytime I drive after 15 minutes or so... first they told me it was only the temperature gauge that had gone bad... only $200... so they fix it.... ..then yesterday I hear the news... the essentially brand new rebuilt engine from porsche with only 9,000 miles on it (from a previous 99 carerra owner that had to have his engine replaced at 19k miles that got in a front end wreck at 28k miles).. would have to be replaced, as coolant was leaking out of the exhaust pipe when they started it up.. which as we all know, is just a matter of miles before the engine explodes AGAIN.. having the fire department have to put my car out again, for the 3rd time in under 1,000 miles... this will be another $13,000 in parts and labor for another engine with only 9,000 miles on it... I actually am considering driving this car off a ledge, if I can get to the damn ledge without it either breaking down on me or blowing up on me first.. I am sick and tired of this, and porsche of north america is unwilling to do anything or compensate me for their piece of sh*t, unreliable 1999 carerras... which they will not admit to having any flaws in their mechanical design... This should not happen with a 5 year old vehicle with 50,000 miles, regardless of how it was treated by it's previous owner... Right now I'm disgusted, as I've put $10,000 in exterior modifications (body kit, wheels, suspension, etc..) and $25,000+ in maintenance in the vehicle already and will have to put another $13,000 in it now... and i've only driven the car for a total of maybe 2-3 weeks and 900 miles... the rest of the time it's been in the shop... and the rest of the miles are miles by the porsche dealer.. many more minor things have happened, that I don't feel like listing or remember right now, due to my mind being clouded with anger at the thought of a new engine after only a few hundred miles on my already new engine... I strongly recommend anyone that even considers purchasing a 996 carerra out of warranty to get an extended warranty.. or not even buy one at all... right now, i'm about to go burn the car myself as I'm so fed up with it and the way that porsche of north america tells me to "write a letter" and they'll see how they can help me response, instead of offering to pay for their faulty craftsmanship in this horrible example of german machinery... I went into the dealer the other day to pull up a history report, only to find out that this car had been in the shop, not 5, not 15, BUT 47 TIMES within the warranty period to fix problems with the vehicle before I purchased it... until it was finally gotten rid of by the previous owners at auction as soon as the warranty expired after 4 years... after then, it which it fell into my hands.. which would also explain, why it appeared that every single mechanical part appeared to be brand new when I bought it.. because it most likely was, after having to be replaced... Is there anything anyone recommends I can do, before I have to shell out another $13,000 for another engine for this horrible excuse for a car? porsche... never again... - Bob - Future Ex-Porsche Owner Forever

I don't know what to tell you, except that I would probably be just as pissed if that had happened to me. Porsche NA sucks ***** with their customer service...I just consider myself lucky i've never had to go them for anything. I'm not really sure what you can do, except to complaine to Porsche or start a big online bruhaha like that guy who got ripped off by Savage BMW did. If you plan on dumping the car, what interior/exterior mods have you done to it and would u sell them separatly?

Not to belittle your problem, but why wouldn't you have pulled the service history on the car at the Porsche Dealership that looked it over. In the 20 cars you've bought have you not done this? I've also never heard of a coolant leak causing a fire...strange.

Any car that was in the shop 40+ times is by definition a lemon. Porsche should have labeled it as such. Get a lawyer. If porsche replaced your engine with a remanufactured one, it should have a warranty. Get a lawyer.

You have 1 post on here - flaming Porsche. If you did your homework and searched this website you would have found many threads about used 996's out of warranty. Almost all the threads recommend getting an extended warranty.

kinda with MRPC12 on this one. Not diggin the fact that your first post just happnes to be a bitch session (although I do feel for you) and advice to rest of us--remember we did all the background work before we bought like using this board, etc. You first posts should be quesitons about a 996, what to look for, warranty, PPI, certified, history, etc. etc. etc. This is a web forum not a place for a single posting to express how pissed you are.

This whole post is just too weird to be credible.

Yes this is my first post to this board, as I have known about it for some time, but just recently signed up after finding out about my second engine going bad... and for advice... and more or less to vent at how upset I am about this situation... Don't get me wrong, I love driving the vehicle when it runs... for those rare few days it does... it's the best feeling in the world to have the top down, driving this vehicle on an open highway... but at $37,000 for every 1,000 miles of driving, wouldn't anyone else in my shoes be quite upset at this situation? When I purchased it, I brought it to an independant porsche shop, as it wasn't local to an authorized porsche dealership.. I only recently pulled up the service history... which you're correct, is a bit negligent and I should have done earlier as soon as the problems started arising... In terms of an extended warranty, I thought Porsche does not allow purchasers of used vehicles to purchase an extended warranty due to the fact that I am not the original owner? Am I able to do this? When I purchased the vehicle, I did expect to have potential problems.. I did my research and history on the 99s... so I knew the problems with them... but I found a great deal on a 99 cab fully loaded with an MSRP of $96k originally.. got it for $39k earlier this year... so I decided.. why not.. just to have as a toy, as it wouldn't be my primary driver... I didn't expect to have all the problems i've had, considering I would only be driving it 2,000 to 3,000 miles a year.. i'd be lucky if I get 1200 miles in this year.. it's been a total nightmare... In terms of understanding why I haven't made any posts to this board, feel free to visit the roadfly board, and you will see many posts by myself about porsche... I knew this board existed, but never signed up until I found out about my second engine problem... to alert others and more or less to vent on the mechanical failure, and for others to continue to advise that a 996 without a warranty is a timebomb waiting to explode... in terms of the coolant leak causing the fire... the coolant mixed with the oil both times, which ended up causing the fire... If anybody doesn't believe me, I'd be glad to scan in copies of all of the receipts i've paid for all this work to be done.... the only upside to this, is I now have a free flight anywhere in the usa with all the miles on my credit card i've accumulated in the repair shop.. sigh...

The first give away was getting a 996CAB with 48K for only $39K. By the way, what are you "alerting" us to? " ...to alert others...."

I can certainly understand your frustration, I must have misunderstood when you said you took it to a "authorized porsche maintenance dealer ". You can get a warranty from any number of providers I think. Did you buy it from a dealer, private or auction? I would wholeheartedly disagree with you on the generalization that a 996 w/o warranty is a timebomb..some have serious issues, but it sounds like you bot a butchered car , very sorry.

Bad luck. Where are you located? Did you buy from a private party or a dealer? Do you have any recourse due to lack of full disclosure when you purchased the vehicle? Do you have any recourse with the authorized Porsche service center that told you the car was in excellent condition. They should have pulled the history and that would have been a clue. I think "lemon laws" generally apply to new cars, but is there a possibility that the previous owner went down this path, and that should have been disclosed? Just trying to help.

I purchased the vehicle from a used ford dealership... they bought it from an auction 2000 miles away in as-is condition... unfortunately, I fell in love with the vehicle and the $25k in options it had, that none of the others had, along with the price... and the fact that it checked out perfectly with carfax and the maintenance shop... I figured driving it as a 4th vehicle 2,000 to 3,000 miles a year, what problems could I possibly have? Now that I've invested so much money in it... it's a catch 22, as if I should just get rid of it and take the $35,000 loss, or keep it, since it's essentially a brand new car after all that's been replaced... In terms of alerting others... basically, that if anyone can't afford the potential problems of a 996, to consider something more reliable and cheaper to fix... If I had a job paying $50k or even $100k a year, I would pretty much be out of luck and bankrupt by now... a used 996 can be a maintenance nightmare, as one can clearly see, and while my problems have been much more extreme than i'm sure most of you, it's fair warning, that this can and has happened to other potential 996 owners out there who do not have a warranty with their vehicle, or are considering purchasing a used 996...

unbelievable story. you should have let the car burn to the ground in the frst go 'round your 996 must have had a very stroried past. $39k for for a '99 cab would have been a red flag to me. good luck to you!

Got any pictures of the fire damage? If you had "fire out your exhaust" , that would be unburnt fuel, not a coolant leak..

Well both times that i've had fire out of my exhaust, it's been a coolant and oil related issue from what the service shop has told me.. I don't have any pictures of the fire damage, but will take some when I go visit my porsche today if you want me to post them... luckily the fire was put out before it got to the electrical wires the second time, but the fire damage is clearly visible from under the car... and the fireguard around the muffler area protected most of the area that could have been burned.... even though it, itself appeared to be quite burned... I have been running a fabspeed muffler bypass, so I don't have any mufflers on my vehicle... could this be responsible for any of this does anyone think?

I was chatting about your problem(s) with my mechanic, I only asked as he has only ever seen actual "fire out the exhaust" from unspent fuel...they used to throw fuel enrichers into the old turbos to get them to belch flames Anyway, I would get your leawyer to go after the guys who okayed your car and never buy another car without having the full service history printed off first. I see Porsches and BMW's forsale at Ford dealers here and always wonder why .....now I know. I was looking at an SL55 until I saw the 19 pages of service hostory on a 14,000km car...pass.

Bobporsche996: I had a nightmare experience with a used Ferrari I bought without a warranty. I will never buy or own a high line car without a warranty again. Your story just reinforces that. Hopefully, you'll get to enjoy the car someday.

Man, what a horror story. I can understand your frustration, but let me tell you: all Porsche are not like that!! In fact most run very well with minimal problems, so don't let this experience turn you away from another Porsche. That said, if you have to change engines again, could you go for the 3.6L? Or is there a problem with the e-gas and engine management?

39k is a flag? Geez. When I traded my pristine '99 Cab in on the C4S, that's about where the wholesale number was, if even a bit lower. I was looking for low 40s by that time. 35k miles, 94k list price with options, one owner, immaculate condition. The fact that a ford dealer had this, bought it at auction and was possibly as clueless as a rock about it, THAT would be the red flag for me. They might have paid low-mid 30's for the car just to generate some traffic and make a buck or two. But surely they didn't have the knowledge or experience to truly examine the car. Really bad luck Bob. Hope it turns around for you.

996 has an RMS problem. Like PMS but for cars I have a 993

I had this happen to me, I bought a used Ferrari Testarossa from an authorized Ferrari dealership. The car had 14k miles and I decided for them to do the 30k service which included taking the engine out to change the belts. I bought the car in 12/00 sight unseen, I did not get the car till 6/01. Then after I get the car I drove it the scond weekend I got it and the car kept shutting off, I got it homw and noticed that the exhaust was bright red (buring red). I had my local authorize Ferrari dealer pick up the car to service it, they checked it over and found $10k worth of work needed, now my question is how can a car have a 30k service done and all of a sudden it needs more work. Well after they worked on it for 6 months (got it back and had to go back several times), I get the car back and it starts overheating, it goes back again. Then after 1+ year of ownership and less thank 100 miles driven I decided to get rid of it and buy a Porsche. I called Ferrari of North America and guess what no help what so ever. I guess what I am trying to say is there is no guarantee for used cars regardless who you buy it from. Sometimes it comes down to luck

Bob . . Sorry to read about your nightmare. Your evidence is at the dealer. The 13k you were/are going to sink back into that POS "Get a LAWYER" 47 times back in the shop = LEMON! It won't hurt to talk to one. The Porsche community is pulling for you. Give'em hell!

Well, as someone who just bought their first Porsche, your freaking the crap out of me! I did the work, lurked around Rennlist, Carfax, had the inspection, got a warranty and even called the dealers from the service manual. I even got them to replace the clutch. Regardless, I am not digging this. There is no way of telling, just how the car was driven in the past. I know in the Audi S4 world, people seriously mod their B5 s4's, cranking up the boost, changing the intakes, etc.... Then they will reverse all the mods, reinstall the OEM parts and sell it or return it as stock a couple years later!

Your purchase story sounds very similar to mine. I found a local 911 C2 Cab on e-bay, went to see it and fell in love. It has almost every option available with 43000 miles for $41,500 plus tax. I took the car to Scottsdale Porsche where I had purchased my 98 Boxster new. The car checked out beautifully. I have only had the car for 1 week but so far it rides like a dream. After reading your story, Im considering getting the extended warranty. What do the rest of you think? Diamondback Automotive, where I purchased the 911, is owned by a Porsche enthusiast ( I saw his 2001 TT) and there are several Porsches for sale at his garage. He had a good rating on ebay, when I asked about extended warranty, he said to save my money and forget about it. If I do decide on a warranty, which one do you suggest?

I agree with others; you should get an attorney involved. If you have any documentation regarding getting the car checked out, I'd go after whoever checked it out. I don't know what an "authorized Porsche Maintainance Dealer" is? Is that a Porsche dealer or a 3rd party? If it's a dealer, I would think you have a case. If it's a 3rd party, it might be difficult... Roy

Bob, I am sorry to hear about your bad run of luck. For other used 996 shoppers I am glad to say that I bought a used 996 coupe for $40 grand that checked out perfectly by my local independent Porsche shop. It had 35,000 in March now its got 40K miles on it and other than the (common to 1999) coolant tank repair has pleased me to no end. I did my due diligence by looking at a lot of cars. I have not bought a warranty because I have faith in my mechanic. If it fails I'll pay to get it fixed. This is common sense. By the way a 996 is infinitely superior to a 993. A much more usable car besides being faster. My 993 reminded me of the 1966 VW we had when we got married 37 years ago. The 993 guys go on and on about the handbuilt 993 and so forth but the truth is it's an old design that needed to be retired.

Carfax is useless. Sellers use the Carfax report to suggest that their car was not in an accident. Carfax does not pick up all of the damage history. I have been the victim of this on one of the LS 400's that I bought used. After I owned the car for a week I realized I had been stupid. The (California) dealer showed me the Carfax from the getgo. I never asked "Has this car been in an accident" because I had the Carfax. I bought the car on a rainy day and did not detect the damage. In the future the use of Carfax is a red flag for me.

Hum lets see, buy a new carrera and lose 30k in first 3-4 years or buy a used one that is 2-3 years old and then have to pay for a repair or two...even if you replace the engine you still come out ahead with the used one. Do you own a black cat? LOL... Robert

I would also like to know if you had your repairs done at a dealership or an independant shop.

I love it. Lets go after everyone.....Hell lets sue....hmmmmm.....foodtv.com...they just had a porsche ad! you buy a used car....guess what you get?....yep....a used car!!..... I doubt this guy spent 37k on repairs!.....paleaaasseee...... along the same line of thinking......I bought a pair of Levis a few months ago....over the course of a few months I gained some weight!!!!.....the jeans no longer fit.....Do you thing I should sue LEvi strauss....I mean they sold me a pair of jeans.....

Just an FYI.... Car Fax does not pick up squat...I had a brand new car that my wife wrecked a few times and when we went to sell it I did a Car Fax on it...Nothing showed up...

DAMN, Phil! I have 5 pair in my closet... and none of 'em fit. Have your guys call my guys... "This should not happen with a 5 year old vehicle with 50,000 miles, regardless of how it was treated by it's previous owner..." Are you kidding? Forget oil changes. Forget changing filters and checking for coolant leaks. Forget spark plugs and low-quality fuel. Forget routine maintenance and the quality tech spec that picks up the early dreaded RMS. Maintenance is key to the success of any vehicle. On a more serious note, Bob, if your story is truly credible, then I am sorry to hear about your long, frustrating Porsche journey. A used car is just that... a used car. If it was previously owned by your best friend with immaculate service records, then your post would probably never exist. However, you chose a 48K mile '99 from a Ford dealer as your first P-car. Then, after the fact, you go to the local dealer and pull the service history and find that it had been in the shop 47 times. After 20+ cars including "semi-exotics", perhaps you should have done a little more homework or even purchased a different vehicle with a certified warranty. Why would you continue to dump tens of thousands of dollars into a blackhole? Every mark has lemons. Heck, my first Benz was a nightmare. It's too bad your car didn't burn down to the ground the first time. You could be sitting pretty in another 996 or even a 997. Cut your losses and move on... Cheers

Get a lawyer at least to sort out your rights. Whatever the outcome might be - get rid of the darn thing. Next time you buy a car, don't buy with the heart, but think twice after doing proper homework first.

Thats a ****ty situation and I feel bad for you, but here are a few pointers, advice etc from me, I have worked at the dealer for a long while so you can take it for what its worth on any one line. A PPI wouldnt have indicated any of the problems you experianced, just to let you know the general condition and care of the car and if its had any accident I confirm carfax tells you absolutly nothing of real importance. Getting a lawyer will do nothing in this case as the car is out of warranty by time and lemon law doesn't apply $39K for a 99 996 isn't a red flag, they dont hold thier value especially when aftermarket stuff is installed like alarms, radar detectors, body kits, wheel (cheap ones anyway) etc. You chose to go with a wrecking yard motor and not a new one. No porsche wont take back a non rebuildable core but neither does any manufacture. Thats why you have to pay the CORE CHARGE for them to locate another rebuildable one. these cars have motor problems, not all of them but most all of them. Some I see with high milage and no problems, others have engines at 3000 miles. there really is no giveaway or indication, its just luck of the draw. Get an extended warranty, and get a GOOD one as I have seen some real messes with lesser know companies where a car (a couple for that matter) have been traded in to us while laying in pieces in the shop because the extended warranty company doesnt want to pay for a new motor, wont call us back for weeks (i had a 996 sit for 1 1/2 months for an OK for a motor) or wont cover it at all. If you cant get an extended warranty, get rid of the car if you cant afford it such exspensive repairs and buy a honda (I see alot of guys who buy a Porsche because they can squeeze the payment but give no thought to the possible repairs of the beast) Porsche will not help you as 1) you didnt buy it from an authorized dealer 2) you arent the original owner 3) the last motor was a wrecking yard motor (i wont even install these for this very reason) A new motor comes with a 2 year 24K mile guarantee good at any dealer accross the country your already in it this deep so just keep the damn thing with a new motor, or if it still really bugs you and you cant get the bitter taste out of your mouth, go backwards (forward in my book) and get a 993. Not to say the 996 isnt a nice car, just that after 35 years of 911 development and finally getting it right, they completely change horses in the middle of the race.

This is a hoax. No way this guy has this kind of luck and then spends this kind of $$ on the car. This guy is just "F"ing with is board. Go away Bobporsche996.

fixnprsh When you say they have motor problems, do you mean problems other than RMS problems? Thanks

It might be B.S., but, then again its totaly in the range of possibility.

Well I hope your happy.....I am gonna sue you!.. you called me fat! On another note......what size are those levis?..... I justs don't see this alleged "poster" being real. No one in there right freaking ......mind would drop 37k into repairs!.......If so.......I've got some really really good property.....postive cash flow, ocean front...and almost cheap.....!!!best of all its.......for sale......step right up.....don't be shy.......you will not believe your eyes!!!

Yes, the 996 does do everything better as its slightly lighter, much stiffer (coupe) and faster. Just not nearly as reliable and lacks the ability to retain resale value compared to any year 993. Then again, the 993 is the result of 30 years of evolution where the 996 was Porsche's attempt to maximize profit. So it may not be fair to compare the two models as their M.O.'s differ. I guess thats why the 997 has returned back to the styling cues of the 993 At times, I think it would be nice to own a 996 variant since it is more modern etc. Its reliability record is what scares me away. FWIW

The 993 was a very good car, some would say the pinicle of 911 development. The 993 is better in some aspects the the 996 and vise-versa but personaly there is nothing the 996 does so much better that I would chose to deal with its "issues" to own one. 993's have been very trouble free and when I see them its for maintaince and valve cover gaskets. Thats a far cry from RMS, coolant bottles, MAF's, motors, air bag light, etc, etc, that plague the 996 and my guess the 997 as well. The already dwindling resale has now been made worse with the release of the 997. I see 10 years from now a 996 parked on a used car lot in a shady downtown area parked between a 2001 chevy truck and a 2003 civic with $13999 on the windshield in bright green numbers as was the fate of the 928. Its unfortunate as it is a damn nice car. I wonder if I could swap in an air cooled 3.6 out of a 993? Hmmmm, project car for Photoshop.

Don't want to create a 993 vs 996 thread out of what may be a very real posting but I have to agree that 39K is not a flag. When my last Porsche was totalled by a VERY careless driver, I was P-car less for about 6 months. About half of that was spent deciding what model to move into. With the off-lease cars available, a '99 would have been an easy catch for what I paid for my car, but with the exception of the secondary air system gremlin, the 993 series really seems to have it together. I would just offer, don't give up on the marque just because you bought a used car from the first year's production of a major change (water cooled) after 35 years of development and it is an immense problem. Maybe a different model would be a better answer. That and best of luck with whatever path you take to resolving this mess.

MORON

I feel for you..sounds like a horrible experience that I wouldn't want to have to go through. As for the people giving you **** for having your first post a flame I would tell those guys to lighten up. I don't think it's any member's business to tell another member what is acceptable on this board. He is looking for guidance (sure he made some missteps) and those that can help him should..those that have nothing constructive to say should stay quiet.

For all that seem to not believe me that I have spent that much on this vehicle, how much should 2 engine replacements cost, both with cracked heads, making the engine core not returnable and add another $8,000 in repair costs, and how can this figure not seem reasonable? Right now as said i'm on my second blown engine in 1000 miles of having it, and that's why i'm so upset about it all... Looking at the service history, yes it had an abundance of problems, BUT the previous owners did the best they could to take care of the car to the best they could while it was in warranty, and did everything apparently as indicated in the porsche service guide in relation to service at authorized porsche dealers. If anyone lives in the Seattle area, feel free to contact me and i'll give you the porsche repair shop the car is at, and the owner of it himself, will indeed verify everything I say is true... Being called a moron is not appreciated, and to go away, is very ignorant and/or a very fortune 996 owner who hasn't encountered any problems as of yet.. and why someone would say such a thing is rude and immature, as most of you know, what I say has happened to many people, just not all at once in such a short time period. As said, I expected to drive this car 2,000 to 3,000 miles a year... so I never really looked into having such a nightmare on my hands.. The service history indicates the previous owners brought the car in for all scheduled maintenance at authorized porsche dealers, the car appeared completely stock with no modifications when purchased, and there was no reason for me to believe that this vehicle would be a total nightmare that it is.. While many tell me to sell the vehicle and get out of it as soon as I can... i've already put a fortune into it exterior wise, and essentially every mechnical part is relatively new... so it's a catch 22 situation... I know if I did keep it, an extended warranty would be mandatory... I just don't know if I want to deal with the hassle of having the damn thing break down on me every 100 or 200 miles.. In terms of my thoughts about porsche, it's not necesarilly the vehicle, or the driving experience which I feel is bad.. I love driving this vehicle and it's been the most enjoyable car to drive i've ever had... (in the rare instances it hasn't been in the shop) but service at porsche, speaks for itself.. and they've already told me all I need to know about this car company... since I didn't want to pay $15k more for the vehicle from a "porsche" dealer for a car with less options, or pay $150 an hour for service, comparable to how much a lawyer makes.. which is ridiculous ($135hr + Tax) and labor and 50% more for parts when I can get them at near cost and work done at 2/3 that price at an independant porsche repair shop, porsche wants nothing to do with me... and their customer satisfaction speaks it all... "pay twice as much at an authorized porsche dealer, or we don't care about you or your problems" is their motto it appears. Having owned many mercedes and bmws, even at extremely high mileage, I have found them to be very accomodating, reliable, and understandable of all situations... the only thing porsche will do, is deny the fact that they have created a faulty product, and make me pay ridiculous sums at their overpriced dealers for their overpriced parts as it is, to correct the flaws that they dont' admit even exist, when they clearly know they f**ked up, to be blunt.. in terms of buying a honda instead of a porsche, the money isn't the situation, I can afford the repairs, but I also do not like to throw money down the drain. Even if you made millions a year, would you like to spend $37,000 a month on a vehicle in maintenance costs? Put yourself in my shoes.. this is a fourth vehicle, and simply a convertible toy for the summer season, I found no reason to purchase a new one at the time with a warranty for 2k to 3k of miles of driving... when this would depreciate at much less than a a new 04 with all the options and tax, which would cost 3 times as much as I paid, for essentially the same vehicle.. the company that represents the product purchased, speaks all I need to know about them, and that is why I will most likely never be another future porsche owner again.. I refuse to support a company that acts in such a manner towards owners of their product. If they expect future business from me, I would atleast expect some assistance, other than "Write a letter". well.. onto my third engine on monday... wish me luck...

Yep, I knew it. Nothing but a troll. Last post proves it. No one in their right mind would do what this guy claims to be doing. Wait a minute. Maybe he isn't in his right mind.

I have had 2 friends sell their 993's because of engine problems. One was looking at 4-5k bill at 40k miles and the other 4k at 30k miles...some people make it see like the 993 is like a Toyota Camry or something... It is true the 996 has had troubles and their are thousands more on the road than the 993 as well so law of averages is in effect. This guy bob is an idiot...

I'm on my second 996, my first was a 2001 C4 and now I have a 2004 C4S Cab... a few things about this story don't make sense to me. If it's true, then it's just really poor judgement. How could you spend 39K on a car and put another 30+k into it? If you could casually drop that kind of cash why wouldn't you get a newer car (70K buys you a very nice 996). The other thing that bothers me is the initial cost. Isn't 39K a little cheap for a 99 Cab? This is by no means a reflection on Porsche or the 996. My first 2001 had 51,000 miles on it before I go my 2004. Now my 2004 has 16,000 miles on it and it's had zero problems - nothing. Rob-

I think if this was my first Porsche experience I would definitely be afraid of owning a "P" car. However, I have owned three of them in the past 20 years and have had my share of frustrations with each. But, that still did not deter me from buying a used car. I knew it wasn't going to be perfect....and I took the leap! My current car is a 99 coupe and it too has had a an engine replacement (at 44,000 miles). Fortunately this happened prior to my taking possession and I still have a few minor (and maybe even major) issues to work out. At the end of the day here's how I look at it. I bought a 99 model because I wanted a newer P car and didn't want to dip into my children's school fund. So......I made the conscious decision to buy a car that wasn't perfect.....and one without any guarantee! I took a risk....and got lucky! If I wanted a no-risk ride.....and I would have, if it was a daily driver....I would have gone down to my local dealer and plunked down 90+K for a new one.....end of story! I might suggest that instead of burning the car, why not sell off some of the "new parts" that have been installed? I need a new interior.......Interested in parting it out?

This guy is full of it...No one would do such a thing....If it is true than he is an idiot and should not be allowed to have a drivers license. This thread should be deleted. R

Another thread gone sour. I smell a Lock, wheres the moderator?

Just watching.. I know a few of us are...... John D.

MORON x 2

Sounds believable to me. Some people have deep enough pockets that an $10k repair is nothing but an annoyance, particularly when it's not for a daily driver. You never know for sure when you authorize a big repair, but you figure that you won't be putting out another $10k soon after. Just bad luck, compounded perhaps by less than fully trained mechanic. And besides, what would be his motivation to make such a post? Can't think of any.

The same reason some people like to start fires............

let me put it this way. if i spend the money to put an engine in my car and within 1000 miles it blows up, i will not be here posting. i will hire a bunch of sharp shooters and mobs and torch the shop that did it. why don't you hired a lawyer and sue the shop that screwed you up? i would take them to court regardless of how much it will cost me.

I think that in cases like this, the new poster should be treated as innocent until proven guilty. Some of you should be ashamed, at least until it is proven...then you can tell all the rest of us how gullible we were and how clever you guys are....until then maybe a hot cup of something would be a good idea... If this thread is genuine, it really does suck to read through un-called for insults and other disrespectful replies. Potentially, you are letting yourselves and Rennlist down.

The story doesn't make any sense. He mentioned using a porsche authorized service center, then several posts later he says it was a ford dealer. Since when does anyone trust a ford mechanic to turn a wrench on a porsche?? Doesn't make sense. Also, he mentions his car caught on fire on three separate occasions and that he called the fire department to come put it out -- come on! In all three cases the fire department must have been less than 1 block away because by the time they would have arrived 30-45 minutes later there would have been nothing left of a car on fire... except maybe a burned out carcass. At that point it would have cost a lot more than he claims to completely rebuilding a burned out carcass. Please, someone give me a break. This story is not at all believable. Mark

If you read my posts, you will see that I purchased the vehicle from a ford dealer, it surprised me that they had it on the lot, and I later found out it was an auction vehicle... the dealer most likely got a great deal on it... especially to be able to sell it to me for what he did... which explains the $39k price for a $95k msrp cab.. I have been bringing my car to an independant porsche service center for all my repairs, as I refuse to pay $150+ an hour for labor and 50% more for parts from the local dealer up here in seattle.. my car has caught on fire twice as I indicated, but i'm most likely setting myself up for a third engine fire, as of what is happening with the coolant and head gasket is a precursor to this event.. I did not call the fire department... on the first occassion, it happened on the freeway, and someone saw my car emit a huge plume of smoke from the engine compartment and fire come out of the exhaust, so apparently called 911 for me... the second time, the smoke was emitting and apparently the police saw that or someone called and they came and called the fire department within a few minutes... Keep in mind I live in downtown Seattle, there are police and people everywhere, as it's very centrally compact.. it's not some spralled out country city.. both times they arrived within a few minutes, which is unfortunate, as it probably would have been to my advantage to have the damn thing burn to the ground and collect insurance... I'm sure many of you in the Porsche Northwest club went to the annual Park Place Limited party.. there were actually about 300+ porsche owners in attendance.. so I would think someone would have recognized the white car up on the service platform.. that was open to the public... most people that went back in the bar area, probably saw a white car about 6 feet in the air? with fire damage under it? That was my car... In terms of the shop I brought it to, they deal with exotic cars all the time, bentley, ferrari, lamborghini, porsche, etc.. they aren't some rinky dink shop.. and have been working on porsche for 40+ years, so I do trust them... what I don't trust is the reliability of any porsche parts, or porsche themselves, for denying all these problems arising from the 996 and instead of offering free or discounted parts, to overcharge for them... which in my book is taking advantage of a situation they created.. such as their cost for their plastic coolant bottles, which they know have been faulty, and instead of lowering it down to $40-$50 or so, instead charging hundreds for a part for a problem they created... of course I could go on and on about certain overpriced parts... which were created faulty originally.. which shouldn't have to be replaced in the first place.. but my feeling, of a company taking advange of a fault on their part, and not willing to accomodate purchasers of their vehicles with discounts of any kind... is quite insulting.. I didn't become successful in life by being ripped off... and as I've said before, it's not the money, it really is the principle of the situation... and how i've been treated and the crap i've dealt with in the short time i've owned this vehicle... with a $100k vehicle, one would expect $100k service... not yugo service and parts quality... regardless, I really don't feel the need to have to prove my story to anyone that disbelieves it... the first post, was posted an hour after I found out about my second engine having to be replaced, so I was quite upset.. I've calmed down now... regardless, there would be no sense for me to lie about this... like i've said many times in my posts, this has been the most enjoyable car i've ever had to drive, I think it's beautiful, and has many great aspects, that no other vehicle can compare with... my disappointment lies within the fact of porsche parts reliability and customer service, which after dealing with many other car manufacturers, from lexus to bmw, mercedes, etc... has been horrible and not accomodating at all... I would expect much better treatment... than the basically "oh well, so sad, too bad, we didn't do anything wrong, our products and engines are perfect, it's all you're fault" philosophy from porsche that they have conveyed to me through my various encounters with them... regardless, if anyone believes me or not, it really doesn't matter... what it comes down to, is unfortunately I purchased a vehicle that is not typical to most porsche 996 owners, yet not completely atypical.. and it's simply a suggestion or warning to anyone considering a used 996 out of warranty, to really take the warranty factor into very serious consideration, and to see the nightmare story to arise from it if you are out of warranty of something that could potentially happen to you... In terms of making up this story, I have no reason to make it up, and I do appreciate all the assistance from everyone that has helped... for everyone that has said less than nice things, there's no sense in wasting my time trying to convince them of the facts of the matter.. they've come to their own judgement, and they are entitled to their own beliefs, even though they are untrue.. I simply know what i've encountered with this vehicle thus-far, and that's honestly all that really matters. thanks again to all that have offered useful advice and/or opinions to assist me in this matter...

You apparently have strong opinions as far as the reliability of the 996. This I can tell from the length of your post detailing all of your problems. If you really wanted to make an impact and prove your credibility, you could easily post your invoices for the repairs. It would only take a few minutes and would prove your point. Very little is believable on the internet these days. Without proof, most would think you were doing nothing more than attempting to cause controversy - including myself.

bobporsche996, Like I said in a prior post, it's the car that's bad. Bought at auction by a Ford dealer for a song probably because no one else who knew anything about the car wanted it. Then, since they really didn't know anything about the car other than it was a cheap buy for them, sold it to you as a bargain. And now you are stuck with a car that was probably abused and neglected. Only 300 miles after you bought the car, the transmission grenades. There was already something wrong with the car to begin with. Now, based on this ONE experience with bargain car bought at a firesale, you start blaming other people, the service, the parts reliability, Porsche company, etc, etc, etc. It's like you bought a used Rolex watch from a guy at the corner with the shoebox and now blame Rolex and their service representatives for not being able to make the watch work right. You'll get a new engine, and that will work fine. How about the suspension? The steering? Brakes? It's only a matter of time befor something else will grenade. This car had the living daylights beat out of it before you got it. Caveat Emptor. It was a risk you took, and you paid for it. Sell that car from hell and be done with it. Ranting and raving here or at any forum about a bad deal that you got from buying a beat up Porsche from a Ford dealer will not get you any helpful answers. You'll get exactly what you have already gotten. Compared to other forums, the treatment you got is fairly benign. My best advice to you is to get rid of the damn thing. If you want REAL help from the Porsche owners here, the queston to ask is "What is the best way to get a used Porsche?". You'lll get a lot of real usefull help and answers. I can also guarrantee you not a single one here will tell you to go buy one at bargain price at a Ford dealr.

The last time I looked the Porsche 911 was one of the leaders in initial car quality. Having said that, it doesn't mean that every 911 is a high quality car, so it's possible that what is posted is true. It's extraordinary however that anyone could have all of those problems so quickly on any car much less a Porsche, so I can understand the skepticism. I've been reading this forum for many months since I have never owned a Porsche and I thought I could learn something from the veteran owners on this Board. Well, after reading this Board for a couple of weeks I learned that it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy a used Porshe without having a PPI and carefully investigating the car's maintenance history. So let me thank all of the regular posters on this Board for sharing their wisdom and making it less likely that I and other newbe Porsche buyers don't have the problems experienced by the starter of this thread.

porsche in general are strong cars. but once they have prob, it does cost you an arm and leg to get it right. buying used, you not only should have some due diligence on the car, i would do that to the previous owner as well. someone who never drives the car but wax it 10 times a year isn't doing much good for the health of the car neither is someone who track the crap out of their cars and never bother step up on the maintenance schedule. do your research and you will find nice used cars.

I'm sorry but this fellow is in complete denial.All this babble about fire trucks on every street corner in Seattle,coolant fires,a Porsche at a Ford dealer is ok,I've had 20+cars,Porsche didn't tell me it was a dud,the service at Porsche was lousy-ENOUGH!!!- Bob stop blaming others for your stuff up!! Your attempt at sympathy here makes me nauseous to say the least. Even if you present repair documents, what does that proove? Mistakes are one thing-trying to ingratiate yourself by way of slagging off Porsche and their wonderful cars is another. You would elicit much more kudos if you stopped your petulant whining and admitted you've made a monumental mistake.

Palting has it right. It's time to dump the car. Personally, I wouldn't have a new engine installed. If it's running at all, I'd take it back to the original place I bought it and TRADE it on something else you can sell. I would consider writing a long anonymous letter which you place in the air cleaner or hide elswehere in the engne compartment, so the next owner knows he is not alone. That way, the only party to have made a profit now has to fritter it away. Alternatively, you could just print this whole thread. The alternative is to donate the car to charity and claim the total amount you have spent as your deduction- this will probably yield the same economic result of fixing it and selling it. Maybe, give it to the local high school auto shop as a project car, or a school for the blind. Parking it in a rough neighborhood with the keys in it is risky. You might get it back. In my neck of the woods, cars like this disappear into Wolf Lake- a body of water with earthen embankments from which people fish- but a good place for a running start. See, lots of choices. Kind of like the kid's game "you're It" where the last one tagged is "It". Personally, I believe your story. Bad luck or the triumph of hope over judgement, or no blood going to your brain- all maladies that I've experienced. Good Luck. AS

Ok, we all agree that this is (assuming it is true) a bad situation, and with a 3rd replacement engine looming it is time to cut bait. Question for all you know-it-alls out there...let's say YOU had bought this car yourself (and the PPI showed no bad signs, like coolant flowing out the exhaust or bearings floating in the oil tank -- wait a sec do they even check for that?) . Where along the lines of the chronology that Bob laid out would you have called it quits? When the clutch disintegrated? When the temp guage showed hot? After the first engine fire? I have a hard time with this question because my optimism points me to "got that fixed, now everything is going to be okay now and I'm going to enjoy this car". Isn't it reasonable to believe that a second engine --assuming it is properly installed -- is going to function correctly for the long term? Many of you guys seem to think Bob should have walk from this car a long time ago - yet in other posts y'all claims how much ya love your cars and the emotional joy of Porsche ownership. So when do you know that the time has come time to take on last financial hit and walk away? How do you know it isn't ever going to get better?

Apparently the 2004 9k rebuilt engine after inspection by Barrier Porsche, they indicated that most likely one of the cylinders came out of the cylinder sleeve? Of course porsche doesn't want to guarantee or warranty it or offer any discount, or even willing to take back the core if this is the situation, even after explaining my situation... basically as said before... "So sad, too bad, now pay us for another engine..." anyways... as well as the head gasket is leaking coolant... regardless, the dealer indicated, it's just a matter of miles before the oil mixes with coolant another fire starts.. so the engine will need to be replaced... since the internals are most likely screwed up, even the core value is at question... Has anyone ever heard of a cylinder coming out of the sleeve? I'm not exactly an expert at cars, what would cause this to happen? Anyways, been debating on my options... Since I live next to Canada, and Oregon without sales tax, to avoid this being a $15,000 engine replacement job if I bring it to the dealership in seattle (since I have no core value) I have been debating on towing it up to canada or down to oregon to not have to pay sales tax and take advantage of cheaper rates? I've found out in Oregon, I would be saving about $3,500 vs doing it here. Since in Washington they charge tax for labor and parts... and the labor rate is much more expensive here as well... Does anyone know if the prices in Canada are pretty much comparable to US prices? The dealership here in Seattle wants $150 an hour for labor with tax, and 20% more for part costs than oregon dealerships... I haven't checked anything in Canada... any canadians ever had an engine replacement or bought any significant parts? More or less looking in the british columbia, vancouver area... would the us exchange rate be a factor in any of this? Any additional assistance would be appreciated.. thanks again for everyone who has assisted.. Any additional negative comments from the individuals that have done so are not needed. You that have done so have already indicated your statements, and if you don't want to believe me, fine.. but please keep it to yourself.. it doesn't help anyone on this board. thanks.

The car story is almost like this thread. It's so horrible you can't look, but always end up peeking anyway. I probably would have walked after the first engine fire. One major mishap I can take as bad luck, but if there is a second one so soon after, I can pretty much assume there will be a third one and would have said good bye and good riddance. Waiting for it to get better is like gambling at a casino. Better walk away after you've lost all your pocket money otherwise you will lose your house and home. "The next hand is the winning hand" is a lot more often a false prediction than a true one. Well, bobporsche, it looks like you want to throw more money at it. Maybe you have more money than most of us. I wouldn't take it to Canada for the new engine, because then you will have to import the whole thing back with the requisite paper work and dues etc. You're just asking for more headaches. Oregon sounds like a no brainer, unless you have to take it back there for any service or warrantees after the work. Anyway, one thing I think you need to consider is whether you will make back more of your money by simply selling the car as a parts car as-is in non-working condition, or whether you will make more after fixing it and paying for the new engine. I would very strongly suggest you get rid of the car one way or the other. Otherwise, next thing you know, the whole electronics will fry out or the whole front suspension may just fall out on you or the chassis weld seams will just break and you'll be stuck with another big bill. We've all made mistakes, some more expensive than others. The key is to recognize it and move on.

the bluebook on the vehicle with all the options I have is about $55,000.. (MSRP was $95k) not to mention all the exterior options i've added ($15k worth with wheels, suspension, body work) so a parts car would REALLY mean a big loss... I can't sell the car in the condition it's in... when it starts up, coolant starts leaking out the exhaust, which any mechanic will immediately recognize as a serious problem, and even if I did sell it, i'd have to disclose what is clearly wrong with it, otherwise i'm in for a lawsuit myself after the new owner blows the engine after driving it for 50 miles... and if the engine blows up into another fire, and causes an accident, or something... i can smell the lawyers running towards me and taking everything i have... not to mention the concious i'd have by selling it to some happy new porsche owner, that probably can barely afford the car as it is... ..regardless, if I sell it in the condition it's in, the engine will go within 50 miles or so, and i'm sure it can be rest assured I will end up paying alot more than $15,000 in damages and stress, whether civil, criminal, or what... once the new owner gets a lawyer involved... and once they see the service history of the vehicle where it will clearly indicates i have knowledge of what is wrong with it through discovery, etc.. etc..... Right now I have one useless boat anchor core sitting at the repair shop with a huge hole and cracks in it.. from the rod wanting to bust out of the metal beast... and another useless boat anchor core sitting in the car right now, playing russian roulette everytime it's driven.... what a cylinder out of it's sleeve means, I don't quite understand completely.. but all I know is that none of the porsche shops want anything to do with trying to fix the problem unless I bring them another engine... when they found this out... so i have two non-refundable boat anchors, and a car valued at $55,000 bluebook... if you were in my situation, and even if I wanted to sell the vehicle, what would you do? Put $12k to $15k into a new engine (which would have a 2 year / 24k warranty) and then sell it and take the extreme loss...? (especially since i've had $10k+ in body work done to make it look like a twin turbo...) or replace the engine, cross your fingers and get an extended warranty? All I know is porsche is unwilling to help, give me any type of discount of any kind, admit to any faults with the car on their part, or really tell me anything other than.. "write a letter"... so they are pretty much useless to me right now... as they have been in the past.... ... either way i'll have to replace the engine at $12k to $15k... since i have no core value.. even after i've already spent $20k+ on the damn nightmare already in the first 1000 miles of having it... the question is what do i do next... after replacing the engine.. i suppose is a decision i'll have to make....

Why pay $15K for an engine? There was a 2003 3.6L on e-bay last week for $4K. Check it out!

$55k is a pipe dream. my 01 cab ($90k msrp) with 15k miles (still under factory warranty) with a buttload of interior and performance mods is barely worth $55k (with or without the modifications). High $30Ks for a 99 cab with 50k miles is about right on a RETAIL basis. Wholesale is probably closer to low/mid $30Ks.

I don't know where you live, but all the 99 cabs around here are selling for $45k+ with this mileage... and no options.. mine has $40k in options.. ($25k in factory options, every factory option for 99 + $15k in upgrades by myself) the dealer trade-in value/wholesale is $44k kbb and a dealer offered $43k trade-in for the vehicle on a new 05 mercedes sl500... and showed me all the auctions in the country for 99 cabs and they all came in at $40-$45k+ with this mileage, most likely most without the $40k in addons... ...when i recently refinanced it, with all the options it has, the excellent condition it "appears" to be in from the outside and inside interior... wells fargo appraised the vehicle at $53k, so, no it isn't a pipe dream.. the vehicle is in excellent condition from looks alone, unfortunately, it's a shallow car, with serious emotional issues on the inside <g> I would love to see where you found a 99 cab in excellent condition at $30-$35k with 50k miles with $40k in options including a twin turbo body upgrade... i'll go buy it right now... thanks for the negative criticism though, it was really unnecessary...

This is a tough one. You need to get the car in a condition where you can sell it. But you really have to get rid of this one. You should consider selling it as is, with full disclosure. The new owner knowing he or she has to replace the engine and the car is priced accordingly. OR, you can replace the engine with a used or new unit. From where you are right now, what is going to cost you less? Selling the car as is OR spending money on the car for a replacement motor and selling it for a higher price? You need to put those numbers down and keep your (further) losses to a minimum. One way or the other, get away from this witch before she turns you completely against all Porsche's (which it seems may have happened already). You know you loved the car when you were able to drive it. There are other p-cars out there that won't cause you the pain but will deliver the pleasure and driving experience. Good luck. Ditch the witch and go shopping for a good one. chuck

-deleted this stuff- My 2 cents

Man it would be horrible to have to part out such a new car, but unfortunately your car is probably worth more in parts than it is as a whole. I suppose the lesson to be learned here is never buy a 996 unless it is Porsche certified. It is still hard to believe that any one car could develop so many problems so quickly. Didn't the Ford Dealer offer any kind of warranty? Almost any used car sold by a Dealer except a salvaged car comes with at least a one month, one thousand mile warranty.

Bob-- Show us your receipts for all the work that you are claiming. Until then, this whole thread is B/S.

Alright, time for me to chime in...... BOB, you say you put $37K in repairs, $39 for the car, and $10K for body work to make it look like a turbo which comes to $86K. If you have the ability to drop $86K on a car for pleasure driving (weekends, etc.) and wanted it to look like a turbo, then why not buy the frickin turbo to begin with. Not following the backwards logic on this one. THIS THREAD NEEDS TO GO AWAY! BANDWIDTH IS MORE VALUABLE THAN WATCHING THIS CASE OF JUDGE JUDY MEETS THE WEB. ...if he is telling the truth or lying, who cares? This isn't what this board is all about.

Last time I looked a twin turbo cabrio will cost about $120k+ used, and not to mention I didn't want a twin turbo, I simply love the way they look... found a salvaged twin turbo and was able to get the parts for a very good price, so I figured why not... I live in the city and have no need for a twin turbo, not to mention the engine replacement cost on a twin turbo, would drive me up the wall... if I ran into such a similar situation.. Also, I didn't exactly anticipate the repair bills at $37k. If I knew that, I wouldn't have purchased the car in the first place... so your rationalization about this doesn't make any sense to me... Regardless, you are correct, this thread has completed. Thank you all for your assistance and advice.. and to all of those with the "moron and troll comments", grow up... those posts are really unnecessary.. put yourself in my position.. and i'd think you'd be quite a bit upset yourself... one thing I think we can all agree on is in summary for everyone reading this thread and many others... ..a warranty on a 996 is something to seriously consider when purchasing this vehicle.. if you are trying to save a few bucks getting a 99 or 00, it may just be worth it to get an 01 or 02 with the 4 year warranty... if it has low mileage... because if the engine goes, along with the core.. you will be out $12,000 to $15,000 in cash. In my opinion, a 996 with 50k+ mileage out of warranty from what i've experienced with two engines myself, and read on this board and others.. is a timebomb waiting to explode... whether fully, partially, rms, etc.. just hopefully you can afford the $12k to $15k out of pocket to cover the replacement engine... the porsche salvage yard i've dealt with goes through used engines every day for the 996s.. they get about 5-6 a week, and all are already pre-sold before they even get there... that should tell you something right there... considering maybe 1% max of porsche 996 owners are on this board... one must consider all the other frusterated individuals out there having to deal with these problems that don't come online to these forums... in terms of selling this car and buying another porsche... i'm sorry, but to me, a vehicle purchase is like a relationship... once you get burned from a car and/or car company... it can take years to recover.. for me, I honestly don't feel safe in a porsche after the two fires, or can trust their reliability, or their customer service after what i've been through... and for me.. most likely I will be purchasing or leasing a 05 sl500 with the best warranty possible <g> in the near future, after I decide on what to do with my current situation at hand... mercedes has always been good to me... and it's time to go back to them for me for the time being... I've learned a great lesson from this all... thanks again for the advice and good luck to all with their 996s...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I just think its worth saying that every forum has posts like this. Bob, if your story were *common* for Porsche, they'd be long out of business. You got a lemon; it happens. If you never want to buy another Porsche again, that's your business. I just don't understand the need to come to a board like this to vent about it other than wanting to yell at "the community". A really common characteristic with this type of thread is that the legitimate advice goes totally ignored and the flames are quickly responded to. That shows that you are just pissed and want to stir trouble with people who did not suffer the hugely bad luck you did. Good luck with your Benz. I'll introduce you to dozens of people across 3 forums that have had your EXACT same situation with Mercedes. Of course, they also bought them from used car lots. You're going to buy a brand new Benz (or maybe even lease one) from a Benz dealer and then trumpet to the world how superior Mercedes is because it will be more reliable than the Porsche you bought from a Ford dealer that came via auction. Whatever man...

Bob-- If you have full coverage on your car insurance(premium), it should cover for the blown engine. Check with your insurance company to see if they will cover you for your next engine.

Anyone else catch the post where Bob slams Barrier Porsche bill rate. I wonder if had used them if he wouldn't be having these problems?

Sorry Bob but you seem to be as foolish in your choice of used cars as you are in your research of their values. I'm in S. California where a used 996 cab will generate the highest price in the entire country. And yes, only a pipe dream would have one bringing the money you quote - here or anywhere else (except when you walk in). No doubt they'd con you on what they were giving you on trade for that thing when selling you a new MB at list. As for auctions, you've been conned there too. I've seen sales at Manhiem auctions go through on average considerably below the prices you quote - a year or more ago even. And you can subtract (not add) value for a silly turbo wanna be body kit molestation. (Factory) Options in general bring $0 upon resale - especially on a 5 year old car. Incidentally, tell us more about what "excellent condition" the one you found was in.

While this thread is entertaining, I just can't get past the "bought a used Porsche from a Ford dealer" part of the story without laughing? That to me just SCREAMS problems? I don't care what any PPI showed. Am I the only one this heartless not to feel sorry? I really want to sympathize, just can't.

Well it probably wasn't too bright. Cars usually go to the auction for a reason and it isn't because they want to sell em a lot cheaper than they can retail em for. After buying and selling cars all the way through college via the then #1 or #2 volume auction in the country, I can say with conviction that most cars there are indeed there for a reason! In this case, the car couldn't be P-car dealer retailed (believe me if it was a solid car selling cheaply a P-car dealer would have picked it up to retail) because they knew from service records it was a POS.

Classic fake post

Just look at what is brewing across the pond!! http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=79209 Harry

I really wish this thread was deleted or locked......unbelieveable.

RS Man, i can't see the link cause i'm not a member there, care to give me the jist of it?

DeAd-EyE, First of all I am not here to inflame or devalue 996 since I have no interest in buying a 996 or 997. It appears that there are about 40 cases of engine failures - data collected by someone who is going to persue this legally having amassed 500K pounds stirling from various people with vested interest in this problem to take Porsche to court if they do not respond favourably. The 40 or so failures apparently wasn't due to abuse (difficult to know if this is so) but had their cars serviced by OPC. The instigator's engine blew up at 13% of the published engine life despite regular servicing at OPC. I think the attitude of Porsche is appalling. Because they are the most profitable car company in the world and the fact that they didn't have to work hard to sell their products off the forecourt has led to complacency in my opinion. I feel for those guys who had engine trouble and had no offer of help from Porsche. A brand new engine is worth at least a third of the car's value in some cases. I think a lot of the posters here thought that the original poster of this thread a liar but I am posting this to say that there are genuine problems with the engines in some cars, albeit a minute number in the grand scale of things. I was going to post the copied thread from PCGB but I am not sure if this is allowed therefore I just summarized the content. Harry

No one would deny that Porsche has some "issues" and historically a small fraction of their high performance engines have indeed blown up,mine included (flange bearing something or other last year). I believe however that the origional post was completely outlandish and most certainly suspect in its truthfulness. I personally, have nothing but Kudos for the way Porsche and specifically Pfaff Porsche dealt with my engine problem last summer which is why I have bought 3 cars from them in the last year. Seeing some of the driving habits exhibited at various DE days , track events and highway driving I would say that there must be a good percentage of engine failures due to abuse caused by stupid drivers. Again, do "some" Porsche engines blow on their own? Yes. Does Porsche deal with all engine failures with the same degree of equality? No. Does any other car manufacturer do so? No. Blow the engines on your Ford, Ferrari or BMW and see what happens..more of the same, case by case.

I'm sympathetic to your problems Bob, being a new (used) 2000 C4 owner. For other readers, I can say that purchasing a certified used Porsche with the two year warranty has been a good experience for me. I've had two problems with each control arm ball joint creaking. Both replaced under warranty at Pfaff Porsche in Toronto. I paid a good buck for this car, but in retrospect it seems worth it. The car was in excellent good shape, low mileage, about 56,000 KMS or 35,000 miles and the 4WD aspect intrigued me. It was also extremely well optioned. I had test driven a '99 C2 for a weekend and found that the introductory model year for the 996 had some aspects that I didn't like including the interior compared to the later models, so I set my sights on a 2000 or newer. When I looked at buying this car the dealer was quite clear as to how the car was reconditioned and I was shown all of the work orders and completed work on the car when it arrived at the dealer. It was fairly impressive and exhaustive so, I had a good idea of what I was getting. And I was getting a two year warranty. Now all of that cost me over $50k (US), but it seemed in the ballbark based on my research, so I went ahead and bought it. For those looking at a first time Porsche purchase, I think its a good way to go.

carbon_00, I think you are lucky you have a great relationship with your dealer and your past experience clearly has been positive and therefore you have gone back to buy more cars from them. Not all dealers have such a great service and I have heard of dreadful service from people who visited their OPC. I think if you had a bad experience I bet you will never go back. We do not know for certain if the original poster was telling us loads of rubbish but all I did was to post a reference about genuine owners who are tired of the service they are getting having forked out their hard-earned cash to buy something they aspired to owning for a long time only for it to turn out into a nightmare they'd rather forget. I think the moral of all this is that if you are going to buy a 996 then it is best to buy at an OPC with warranty. I think this in itself has been a useful education that has come out of this thread that a lot of us wished never got posted in the first place. Harry

Well said. I agree, buying a Porsche from a Ford dealer is absolutely ridculous...Cheers!

After reading all these posts, I can understand the skepticism from all the problems I have had with my 996. I as well would be skeptical as well from all these problems. In terms of purchasing the vehicle from a ford dealer, yes I was a bit baffled as to why they had such a vehicle on their lot. Regardless, when I went to go view the vehicle, I did fall in love. It had every option available for that year, with the $95k MSRP, and at $39k for a C2 Cab in excellent condition, taking my slk trade-in for $8k more than any other dealership would offer... I took the bait... ...and figured, how much trouble could this car be at driving it 2,000 to 3,000 miles a year? And even though it was a ford dealership, what would matter if it was a ford dealership, or an independant used car lot, that bought the same car from the same auction? It shouldn't really matter. I knew it was an auction vehicle, and took my chances, as I have with many other auction vehicles in the past... I learned a great lesson through this all... and in a way I'm greatful of what happened, as I learned that purchasing semi-exotic or exotic cars with mileage can potentially result in nightmares. I've heard them from ferrari, lambo, ranger rover, owners, etc... but never thought it would happen to me.. In terms of all the skeptics, you are entitled to think what you want... It really does not matter. If you believe the 996 is a top quality vehicle with an excellent engine with no defaults or imperfections, you are entitled to believe that. If you believe porsche service and support for their customers is top notch, you as well are entitled to believe that. From my experience with porsche north america at 1-800-PORSCHE and from 5 dealerships, I have had no care, concern or willingness to work with me in the least, or care. But they will gladly take my $18,000 at $150 an hour to charge me for a new engine, if I'm willing to spend my money there. For the amount of money porsche makes on their vehicles, in my own personal opinion, they have treated me worse and more unsympathetic than any other car manufacturer ever has in the past considering what I have been through. Both the dealers and Porsche North America directly. The porsche ride, is unbelievable, the handling, amazing... the feeling of having the top down, and driving at high speeds, is enthralling... yes.. I do not disagree there... but in terms of the fact of porsche's negligence in admitting any fault or concern for their customers of $100k cars is just plain unacceptable. Toyota, Chrystler, and most any other car manufacturer will gladly recall 2 million vehicles, for a minor defect in any fault of their vehicle, on cars that cost $10-$15k. Considering my car has been on fire twice in a month, and telling porsche customer service this, i've been met with a response of "write a letter" I would think a car being on fire twice in a month to be somewhat of a safety concern, not to mention all the other problems i've had. Yes, my car is a lemon, yes my 996 is an exception.. It has had all inspections, all oil changes done during the warranty period, and if it was a lemon, one would expect, porsche would offer some type of compensation, whether to replace the engine at dealer cost, or even a replacement vehicle. Nothing.. no help, no assistance. Nothing. $37,000 in maintenance from 1000 miles and a service history of being in the shop for 47 repairs during the warranty period is unacceptable in my opinion. Porsche's response to this? "Not our fault, deal with it on your own, just spend another $50,000 and i'm sure everything will be fine." No care about me burning up in a fire, no care about my safety, costs, or problems i've had. Put yourself in my position. Would you buy another $100k vehicle from a manufacturer that treats you like this? To all that have had excellent success and reliability with their 996, as said previously, that is great. The 996, 993 and all porsches are beautiful and excellent cars. Unfortunately, there are a handful of nightmare stories out there. And when no salvage yards in the country have any 996 used engines in stock, because they are sold out before they even arrive, that should tell you, that I'm not alone in this case... I'm curious to see many of your thoughts on what I have said, as years pass, and you are forced to spend $15,000 of your hard earned money on a replacement engine that was built with faults beyond your control, that you at no fault on your own decided to blow up on you. For all those skeptics, I really don't care. Comments calling me a moron and a troll for posting these messages, are just plain upsetting. If this happened to you, wouldn't you be the least bit upset? I know what has happened to me, and if you care not to believe me, that is fine, but responding in such a manner, is plain rude. Anyone in Seattle, feel free to visit Park Place in Belleve, talk to Brian or Tim, the service managers all you have to say is "White Porsche" and they will tell you that this car has had more problems than any other car they've ever experienced, none that are the fault of myself, as they are all internal problems. They will verify all the engine fires, and even have one of my blown up engines with fire damage sitting there in the back, with the hole in it, from the rod deciding to puncture the block, if you wish to view it. For those that requested postings from the http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com and wwww.911uk.com, here are just a couple dozen of some of the messages relating to the new 996 porsche engine failures from two threads alone.... as I can see from there, i am not alone... Note that all of these posts are from different porsche owners.. ------ If any other nails were needed in the coffin of my love affair with 911's, then Porsche's attitude to what is obvioulsy a major defect in their cars, is doing absolutely nothing to ensure continuing loyalty from me. However, I can see that I'm likely to keep my 996 until at least a used DB9 convertible falls within my price range, so I guess I'll be around a tad longer ------------- I guess they can try but they would have to try and explain as to why a �80k car that has been fully serviced by an OPC fails at less than 13% of its published designed mileage due to a part that is not a wear and tear item. Further this part has never been touched by anybody other than the Porsche. In my case if this part had failed while i was driving at motorway speeds then it would have resulted in injury both myself and others (ask anyone what happens if a connecting rod snaps at 80mph!) Update from Porsche AG. After a week of thinking PAG now want my independant inspectors report to tell them whats wrong with my car. After some conversation it turns out this was because i would not "allow my car to be touched by Porsche". Considering that the car has been serviced and now dismanteled by the same OPC i have no idea how this has come about. Further i already sent a letter asking PGB to inspect my car about 8 weeks ago! I am sure it does not take that long to drive from Reading to Wilmslow! ------- I understand the reticence, perhaps, of the PCGB to get too involved in these premature engine failure issues for fear of perhaps damaging future customer confidence / current owners residuals. From a non-technical perspective, and I'm non-tech!, it would appear the engine is fundamentally flawed...all the engine problems (resulting in a replacement engine) I have read of recently appear to be centred around liners or auxialliary driveshaft bearings...and of course, there is the RMS issue. I don't have a solution to offer. I'll continue to (selfishly) wrap myself in the comforting blanket of security the warranty provides, albiet at a cost (so much for buying into a marque with legendary bullet proof build quality) What does amaze me though is the inconsistency with which Porsche GB applies their goodwill. Some appear to be out of the warranty period and get the engine replacement free, some are paying a %age (variable) cost and some are left completely frozen out. I would have thought a modern, well designed engine should be good for at least 150k reliable miles before requiring any major remedial work...many of the failures I have read off occured at very low mileages. ------------ Jackie, You have read it correctly. Most of us like me have just contributed monies that we would have paid to upgrade to a 997 towards the legal costs. I personally have a retainer with the solicitors of 80k. The others have contributed various amounts Please dont get me wrong i dont want to take the marque to the cleaners, but when a contribution from the PGB is 800pounds towards a 10k bill you get PI$$ed off especially when the contribution is accompanied by attitude. You then get further infuriated by the fact that you are now listening to a recorded message read out by a gimp on the end of the phone who does not wish to listen to any logical argument. in what other field do you have the situation where you hand over 10's of thousands of pounds then get told the item that you have bought has failed due to no fault of your own. Steve I know what you mean by the attitude of some of the owners. I have to say i have met brick walls in my persuit of this matter. Mostly from those who have claimed that it was not possible for Porsches to fail or to fail so regularly. If Porsche does turn up in court then my solicitors will push for them to disclose the true number of failures. As you know the argument from Porsche "its a one off" will not stand up in court! --------------- It appears that a number of low mileage 996s are experiencing unexplained total engine failure. It�s being suggested that this is much more common than anyone will admit and that it�s caused by a design fault. Most worrying is the attitude that Porsche Service Centres are taking. If you read the posts in the forum at 911uk.com you will see that owners of cars outside the warranty period, even those with full service histories and low mileage, are facing bills of up to �10,000 for complete engine replacements. The experience of these unfortunate 996 owners is that Porsche GB have been very unsympathetic, an attitude that I find astonishing. The Porsche tradition is to build bullet proof sports cars, its one of the major reasons that it sells so well and was certainly one of the major factors that persuaded me to choose a 996 over any of its rivals. If it is now proved to be subject to major engine problems that Porsche is unwilling to accept liability for, I for one will be selling and buying a different marque with a more sympathetic approach to its customer base. ------------ Unfortunately it's not just 996 owners either - there have been a number of Boxster engine failures (identical engine to 996, just different capacity). I was one of the lucky who had their engine replaced under warranty, but was told that if I was even 1 day out of warranty then I would have been given a bill for �12K, which is a bit worrying to say the least. -------------- Andrew, I read the article in the Post too with much interest as I am one of the unhappy number. Last November my (wife's) 1998 996 C2 Cab, with 40,000 miles on the clock, two sensible owners and a full OPC service history, needed a new engine after a crank case cracked. I spoke to the chief engineer at my OPC in Chiswick who said he had never seen anything like it before and had no idea how it could have happened. I also spoke to a senior technician at Reading who told me he knew of two previous crank cases cracking, but Chiswick seemed wholly uninterested in reporting it to Germany and asked me for �9,500 for the new engine and the necessary 40 hours' labour. --------------- I started the thread in the 911uk.com forum after my car failed at 30k. I have to say that the issues with oil starvation is not really the issue for most people but 996 engines do fail. I set up a database and to date have collected about 40 genuine cases of catastrophic engine failures from owners that have driven the car sensibly and had then serviced at OPC for the duration of the cars life. The main issue is to do with the lack of help offered by the OPC and PGB and the level of misdirection and misinformation given by all of them. I am sorry but when a car costing 80K fails due to no fault of the owner then the responsiblity lies solely(if not for the great %) with the manufactuer. When you dont get the level of service that you expect then there will be dissatisfied customers. Its now been 4 months since my car failed. PGB customer service has been totally useless and actually managed to send me a letter to say that Porsches will fail at 5years even with a low mileage. I have now managed to get through to the legal department in Germany and they have untill the close of buisnesss this Friday to give me an answer. If they dont then my solicitors have already got the material to issue a summons. With thanks to all those concerned we have, so far, raised in the region of 500k towards the legal battle. Wish us luck, it will be for the good of all of us here. Those that have had failures and those of us who so far have been lucky ---------------- Right folks I'm going to add my 2p's worth as a Boxster S owner who's recently suffered a major engine failure (14k miles, full OPC history with engine replaced under warranty) You'll have to forgive me if some of the technical expressions are not quite correct - a girl on a steep learning curve! My engine failed, without warning and without being driven aggresively; the cause was subsequently discovered to be 3 split liners on one side of the engine....with no good reason for it occuring. In the space of 5 weeks or so, I have read reports of at least 5 996/986 engines failing on other Porsche forums...aux drive shaft bearing failure, liners moving and my "split liners" I have no idea what %age of the total Porsche owners belong to a marque related forum, I'd hazard a guess at not too many. I'd suggest that 5 "forum" reported engine failures in a short period of time represents a high failure rate if extrapolated to account for the non forum paticipating Porsche owners. Two days ago my OPC disclosed that they had one Boxster and one 996 in their workshops awaiting engine replacement. By way of comparison (poor I know) I only recall 2 engine failures reported on an Audi forum in two years. Rightly or wrongly, I can only surmise that the attrition rate on these Porsche engines is very high. ---------------- jac in a box is right. the percentage of porsche owners that contribute to forums must be very low. so the number of instances of total engine failure is likely to be higher than any of us would want to believe. what i don't understand is why porsche is not desperately trying to placate aggrieved owners by repairing their cars as if under warranty - they must appreciate the damage that this could do to the marques reputation - the motoring press would have a field day! many other manufacturers would have already stripped the failed engines down and found the cause, or causes, of the problem. the lack of response from porsche, porsche GB and the OPC's has shocked me. does anyone know if our club has got involved at all? --------------- I have also had 30,000mile 1999 996 c2 triptronic blow up on me the other day. The car was bought new from Porsche center(Stratstone, wilmslow) and was maintained and serviced by them. The last service was 1 month ago. The car had only been driven 6 days since the service, when clouds of white smoke came from one of the exhausts and it died on me! There were no waring lights, the car has never been driven hard (its anautomatic!), never raced and looked after. The Porsche centre feel that it would be added costs to me to find out what the cause of the problem is and wish to replace my engine. Cost, a cool �10,000++ The Porsche centre have been rather unhelpful. I am a doc on call, but they have not provided me with a loan car, Porsche GB are not willing to help financially at present. The Porsche centre have said in as many words its not their problem, i have to pay for a new engine! I note that there are quite a few reports of 1998/9 996 engines failing The Porsche centre agrees that this problem would have surfaced during the warrenty period had the car covered the usual 12k miles per year, and been covered Is this really what we are to expect from Porsche in the future? I have a new 911 on order but am now really worried by both the attitude of the Porsche Center and that of Porsche GB I would value the views of others on this matter and will keep you informed of my progress ------------------ I wrote to the Porsche centre as requested, they "wrote" to Porsche GB who came back with a contribution of �0!!!! I have since talked to Porsche GB they will get back to me tomorrow. Statstone dont know why it went wrong they just say it needs a new engine!! They feel the cost of stripping the engine down would add a substantial cost to MY bill. This is not an uncommon problem i am begining to find out. Porsche are aware of a problem with some engines built pre April 1999 so should inform owners of this but as always have not. So far i have been mailed by 3 owners in a similar position to mine in uk ----------- I seem to be gathering a few people from around the uk who have had the same problem with their car. They have all had the same response from their Porsche Centres that they need a new engine, no cause found! Porsche GB have tried to say that its nothing to do with them as the cars are over 5years old!! one of the local independants say that they have on average 1-2 cars a month Looking at the Porsche owners club in the USA the problem of cracked cylinders sems to have attracted many posts. I even have some pictures!! Porsche have known of problems with engine cylinder blocks I really would like to build up a database of those who have had such a problem would welcome just brief comments from members. While i understand that there is a point at which a car can fail, fauilures of such catostrophic nature should not really happen to a prestige marque at a low mileage --------- After a meeting with the Service manager today the following has emerged. HE does feel that its likely to be a sliped cylinder lining or a cracked cylinder. Both of which i could not have caused! There have been a few cases of these of this (4 last month) in low mileage well used fully serviced cars. I have agreed to pay for the engine to be stripped down so that the fault can be found (we all agreed that it was a waste of time and money). The cost would be for 40hours of labour! �2k++ The point of all of this expence and time...... -------------- sounds like a similar problem to what i suffered with my '51 996 - in my case the intermediate shaft snapped, sending debris around the engine and screwing it big time. this on a three year old, 16k miles car. check the thread... http://www.911uk.com/forum/display_t...PagePosition=2 porsche brushed my claims off - as it was 4 months out of warranty and an import (previous owner... err.... Porsche GMBH) it seems that a HUGE number of individuals (compared to the numbers of 996's around....) are suffering catastrophic engine failures. is it time to collect statistics and think about a way of getting porsche to take notice of these manufacturing defects? a twin track of publicity and legal action may get them to take their duty of care more seriously. continued....

wow.... poetic. Somebody has a lot of time on their hands. "...the circle is now complete"

---------- I also had the same problem with my 1998 996 after 22,000 miles again from Stratstones of Wilmslow. I had bought a warranty which covered the cost of the replacement engine but this I believe was paid for by Porsche GB. At the time there was total denial of any previously known problems with this type of engine. There seems to be a culture of secrecy and lack of openness. ---------- Check the latest issue of Excellence. Story about 1999 996 that broke timing belt (and wrecked engine) at 27K miles. Even though out of warranty, Porsche (USA) replaced engine at no cost to owner. ----------- Not sure about the US article, but there is a new 996 Turbo in AFN Guildford currently having the engine completely rebuilt at Porsche's cost. The fault was a timing belt that snapped and initially Porsche blamed the driver for over revving the engine on a track day Two weeks on and they have decided to pay for the repairs. Why the change of heart? -------------- ENGINE REPLACEMENTS FROM PORSCHE Those of you near the top of this page esp rehan and Pete a word of warning about engine replaced Porsches. Porsche GB through its Porsche centres replaces the blown engine with two types. Fisrt is the "recon" or "rebuilt" engines that are essentially old blown engines that have been "fixed". These are identified by theie vin numbers having an "X" at the end. The second is a completly new engine that does not have an "X" at the end. Both come with a 2 year warranty but neither may last that long as i am beginning to find out! The problem is commoner than you think. You need to understand that most porsches are not driven that much, cars that were going to fail in the sub 16k group were fixed by the warranty but its those that are failing at the 30-50k mark that are only now comming through. Guys the Official Porsche Centres will tell you that their cars do not fail but check out renlist.com and other sites before you buy. I have been and i guess always will be a Porsche fan but i did not expect this sort of treatment ------------- I have now had the car for 4 months and the following has gone wrong: Both lambda sensors failed, oil return bellows failed, oil/water intercooler split, oil filler pipe broke in two, RMS failed (twice), cam cover seals gone (both sides), header tank split followed by overheating problems nobody has got to grips with, hydraulic tappet failure on o/s bank, MAF sensor failure, windscreen and rear windows surrounds squeaking, front suspension strut tops worn out, front suspension bushes replaced (both sides), front anti-roll bar drop links and bushes needed replacement. Plus a host of small niggles like dash rattles, etc.etc. You can imagine my patience is at an end! Interestingly (and the reason that I feel this is relevant to the thread) is that most of the items above seem to fall into the category of design flaws, not wear and tear. Almost all the items are known issues that have been the subject of re-design. As far as I can see, the content of this thread is suggesting failed engines fall into the same category. ------------ I today had a letter from Porsche GB about my BOXTER that need a new engine!! If they cant even get right what car i own what chance have we got of geting any decent answers? May be Alessandro is right may be the next time i get a letter i will be asked if my polo needs a new engine!! The one thing i have to say at least vw group cars as far i know dont fail with 30k on the clock. -------- FINAL THOUGHTS: In the UK around 15,000 Porsches are sold per year of those that develop problems. Of these only a small fraction of owners even access the online forums. Of this small number only a minority access the 911uk.com forum. If withing this miniscule number there are so many issues with the reliablity of 996s then is it not the case that the problem is much more prevalent than Porsche admits and as a company producing cars that are in the �65K+ price bracket they should either address the issues or when things go wrong admit their mistake and fix the problem at their own cost? ---------------- I spoke to a mate last night who knows someone with an S plate 996 that had the engine blow up on him soon after he bought it - he has just spent �9000 on having another one fitted! Porsche are disgraceful - I can't believe they are getting away with this!! ------------- Hi, I was looking to buy a used Porsche 996 Carrera 4 but am now hesitating after hearing about peoples experiences with engine problems and the main dealer attitude. There appears to be a design fault in the 996 engines which can lead to them blowing up - this is not covered by the Porsche warranty and owners are having to pay �10k+ for a new engine to be fitted! I know someone who has had to do this and can give you their details if you like. ------------- Guys you may be interested in this link. http://www.europeancarweb.com/longte...porscheupdate/ Its from a US mag that had its 996 C2 loose its engine at 6K. But the main Differance was that Porsche replaced the engine with the minimum of fuss!!! ------------- Interesting post on BM3W from a guy who sold an M3 for a C4S and then moved to an M3 CSL because the Porsche was too unreliable! Search for "engine replacement" to hear his complaints: http://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/sho...b=5&o=&fpart=1 ----------- I sold my IR/IR M3 for a 996 C4S which I must admitt I had dreamed of for a while (everyone should own a 911 at some point in their life). Car was great but altogether less involving than the M3, even more so now when compared with the CSL. The M3 demands a little more respect (especially in the wet), the sure footedness of the 4 wheel drive Carrera was comforting if a little dull. However for me reliability was the biggest bug bear. Remember I bought the car with 10k miles at 22 months old and kept if for 8 months. The list of problems includes: Complete engine replacement (following implossion after one week of ownership) because of a poorly executed RMS repair (Edinburgh Porsche Dealership). Three wheel bearings needing replaced at the same time at 13k Various electrical faults, bulbs failing, etc. -------- couldn't agree more with this thread - the sad fact is that porsche engines (including the 3.6, which is carried over into at least one variant of the 997 is unreliable, presumbaly cos its a highly stressed bit of kit. the porsche attitude towards my 15k, 2 and a half year old model was nothing short of despicable when the engine imploded, the customer service department at reading a hotbed of disinformation and dissembling, something i'd be happy to take to court with them any day. i wouldn't consider a 997 until the engine is proven to be more reliable than previous. (and until the button splattered interior design is sorted out). porsche effictively called me a liar, after i've spent �55k on one of their products, so you can see i feel a touch put out. i wish i could put my views to the ceo "Wendeling w**king" or whatever his name is in person, maybe i'll see him at a trade fair and mention my issues with his products to him.... -------------- This catastrophic engine failure problem is caused by a design fault with the oil baffles which causes the engine lubrication to fail whilst taking corners. The OPC were negligent in failing to diagnose this problem before catastrophic engine failure. -------------- As a Porsche enthusiast of many years I've been following this thread with an eagle eye. Lola who told you that changing the oil every 3000 miles would cure the 996 engine problems. Whoever it is BSing. There is a fundamental engineering fault here that can't be solved with an oil change. ---------------- I'll join the list of 996 owners with expired engines. I had the 'Check' light come on and dropped my 996 into STRATSTONES (Wilmslow)for them to take a look at. I was asked to look around the showroom while they checked it out, and an hour later got a bill for 106 quid for work they say they carried out (without even asking me!). About 100 yards down the road the light came back on. I took it back and no-one could help as it was 5pm and England were about to start a European Cup match. I took it to Ninemeister, who appear much more knowledgeable and are definately more helpful, and 6500 quid later I had a second-hand engine in to replace the one that had expired through a 'cracked engine liner'. They told me that: a. this is a relatively common problem ('there were 22 damaged engines out the back of Stratstones...') b. the engineering on the new engines is very poor compared to the old air-cooled jobs, with 'flashing' very evident (I think I know what that means) -------- "Much has also been made of the 996's appetite for engines. A problem with the Lokasil process that sees the highly porous silicon liner cast into the alloy block, has resulted in the liner material part company with the local. The only remedy is a new engine, but Porsche are not exactly playing ball with owners' claims for a replacement powerplant." ----------- My C4 996 also needed a new engin at 16K miles!!!! 3 years old quoatation �9,750 -------- Was in my local OPC the other day and guess what - another engine problem - the mechanic wouldn't elaborate but he confirmed it needed a NEW ENGINE!!! It was a 2003 C2 Cab!!!

"a service history of being in the shop for 47 repairs during the warranty period is unacceptable in my opinion." Please, how did this car not have a "lemon" history? I think we have all been sucked into this thread by an articulate 14 year old with a vivid imagination! I think he's the only one laughing harder than me. I still plan on purchasing an 03' or 04' cab in the next few months and this thread has had zero impact on my thinking. Ha!

show us the car and /or receipts.

To put all you skeptics to rest.. I managed to scrounge up a few of the receipts.. right now they are all over the house, but here's a few of many, from various repair shops and dealers, parts suppliers, etc... I have many more but can't find them right now.. here's a few I found that should atleast indicate that i'm not making this all up... these are just partial cut-outs of each repair bill, not indicating close to everything that went wrong... some of you wanted, receipts indicating i was a porsche owner, and hopefully this should prove just that... I don't have a scanner, so I used my digital camera and put together a collage crossing out cc details and my name for obvious reasons... and yes many of those receipts starting out with 2s and 3s, are all in thousands of dollars, not hundreds... and i have yet to count the additional $18,000+ i'm going to encounter to replace the now blown up second engine... or the money I put on my credit card for other payments, for additional costs for the 2nd engine, from other companies and various other receipts lying around the house, cash payments, parts costs from 3rd parties, etc.. for countless thousands of dollars more in repairs, countless towings, etc... keep in mind those lists are just page one of many for most times the car has been in the shop... I don't feel like spending hours, finding and organizing all the receipts, just to prove my point.. If you don't believe me, like I said before, that's fine... I'll manage to live... keep in mind these are all from about 1,000 miles of driving... add another 3 or 4 pictures like this, and you will see why i'm so upset with porsche right now... ...and the response from porsche north america and their dealerships after contrfronted with all of this? not in the same words, but basically... "not our problem.. our 996s are all perfect without any defects. It's your fault and you will have to pay full dealer cost to get our perfectly working vehicle fixed because of the problems you caused at an authorized porsche dealer..." I have yet to hear of many high mileage 996 owners... as one can tell from all those postings of engine failures in the UK forums... within the next few years, I have a strong feeling, the number of failed engines, will outweight the number of 996 and 986s produced as the mileage gets up into the 70ks and 80ks. It's a fault engine design, and I can't wait until a lawyer brings a class action suit against porsche, for their negligent actions in not admitting fault of any kind and blaming it on the driver, and making the owner pay for their mistakes. When a single porsche dealer has 22 blown 996 engines in the back lot that haven't been picked up yet and are beyond repair, that each individual had to pay $18,000+ to replace, that should tell you something right there... (as indicated by the individual in my previous posting about his blown engine...) One must keep in mind this isn't a $3,000 honda replacement engine. If your engine blows, head gasket leaks, or any of the 25+ various problems that have caused the engine to have to be replaced, you will be out $15,000 to $18,000 cash if you're 996 is a 98(euro)-01, and is over 4 years of being purchased, regardless of mileage, unless you have an extended warranty, depending if you're core is usable, cash out of pocket... those without warranty... Insurance companies don't cover it, I checked... and most extended warranty companies, won't cover it either. I have yet to find one that will... I wish you all luck... it's an awesome car, but porsche needs to admit to their mistakes, and replace all engines that have gone bad at their expense for their faulty design... and quit blaming their customers, saying it's their fault, or their driving, etc... with 20 vehicles previously, I have never once had an engine go bad on me... and i've had several vehicles with 150,000+ miles... an engine should not go out at 50k miles, 30k, 9k, 6k, etc.. and all these other random numbers as indicated by various other 996 owners... there is a fault within the engine and porsche is making it's customers pay for the damage that they are responsible for, that they still haven't corrected yet, even in the 997, as it's essentially the same engine and will most likely encounter the same problems. it seems to be they have trained all their reps at 1-800-POR-SCHE to never admit guilt or sympathy, or indicate it is their fault by any means, and they are all like robots. All 5 times... "Bring it to the nearest Authorized Porsche dealer and after you replace the engine, send us a letter and we will see what we can do. There's nothing else we can do for you." No sympathy, no emotion, no care, no communication with a dealer, no discount in parts or labor, no assistance.. just.. "spend $18,000 so we can make more money off you for a new engine and write us a letter..." all i can say is... bastards... after reading the letters from all the other dozens that have gone through the same thing i have, porsche needs to get their act together, and they need to be sued. I'm sure there's plenty of you with 98-01 996s without warranties running scared out there.. and you will encounter the exact same treatment we all have when your engine blows... they will blame it on you, and then ask $18,000 cash to fix it and write a letter if you have any concerns.... once is one thing, but two faulty engines in 1000 miles... now that really pushed me over the limit... especially with the 9,000 mile replacement engine going bad on me.. and the dealers and porsche say that the car is perfect, and it's the driver at fault... when most all of the time, it's been proven that's clearly not the case, clearly infuriates me even more. How can a cylinder falling out of it's sleeve on my second engine with 9,000 miles, or a rod busting out a hole and causing a fire on my first engine while driving in 4th gear at 70mph in traffic on cruise control be my fault? - BobPorsche996 (for the time being.. seriously debating on an 05 sl500)

This is crazy.........I'm off to do some work !

Is this still going? Somebody get the net.....PLEASE!!!

Oh damn ...I feel sick to my stomach now. You really have some luck Bob, got me thinking if I should get rid of my car now and go back to the aircooled beasts... sorry for doubting a fellow 996 owner in the previous thread.

Those receipts look to be maybe 20% of the claimed repairs paid to date. Anyway, Porsche's position rightly or wrongly on this car is when it was a $100k car it came with a 4/50k warranty which they honored 47 times. The $39k car (60% off) did not come with that warranty. Further, you will find Porsche much more receptive when the services are done at a Porsche dealer instead of an independant. While it costs a crapload more, they see it as being loyal and are more willing to help in the case of goodwill type situations. As it stands now, you bought a very used Porsche from a Ford dealer for which Porsche received zero, then had it serviced at an independant for which Porsche received zero, and now are looking to Porsche for help. Your situation is a very sad one and I certainly empathize with you, but unfortunately it appears you will end up on the short end of the stick. Your best bet is to repair the car that should have gone through the Lemon process LONG ago and trade it in at a non Pcar dealer for re-auction. The extra $8k you were given on the SLK trade leads me to believe someone (maybe even you) knew the history of this car which may even be a previously lemoned vehicle. Are you certain the car was not lemoned? Was the title washed from another state in which it was previously lemoned? No way a car goes in 47 times without being lemoned. Those buying $100k cars aren't that stupid to put up with the time and inconvenience that goes along with 47 warranty trips (X2 to pick it up) without lemoning the car! Then again, if the state in which the car was purchased has weak (or no) lemon laws, maybe that's why the car found it's way to auction and ultimately a Ford dealers lot. Really though, you need to fix the car and dump it. While 996s are most def a long way from perfect (though my 4 year old has been), yours is an extreme exception and I'd cut my losses if I were you.

Bob Sorry for doubting your story. Did you run a carfax at any time on the 996? I was wondering if the car may have been previously lemon lawed.

I was amazed by a lot of the posters doubting Bob. If he wasn't genuine he wouldn't have come back to repeatedly stick up for himself. I for one didn't doubt Bob since he posted repeatedly at pains to try and explain the situation the best he could. If I was a tosser I would have given up by the first or second post. I hope you get this sorted one way or another Bob - a shame you will carry a tarnished image of Porsche for a long time. Harry

yeah... its pretty lame...all these doubters this guy's articulate, has a consistent story. you guys need to relax.

I'm in the same boat. I feel sorry for the poster if his story is true and more sorry for him if it's not true. A story like this one should have no affect on future buyers of Porsches. I look at sources like J D Powes when I judge a car's quality, and not one internet poster.

Bob, Good luck on your repairs.

old old old post..I read it when I just purchased my 99 996 cab...and laughed at the post...but was still a little concerned.... this is what I didn't understand about his 2 engine fires within one month and within 1000 miles....if the porsche dealer install a new engine and you pay 15K....you have a warranty on the engine and repairs done by porsche....it is 90 days or x amount of miles.....if his engine goes up in flames porsche is responsible for all repairs...so this is to me the B.S. part.......and that makes the rest of the story not credible.....but this post is from 2004..and I guess Bob moved on...to a Camry ($15K) and the best costumer service...just saw on CNN that Toyota has a callback for a couple of million vehicles....goodluck Bob and hope all is well!

I too initially believed the post was bogus, but Bob later produced receipts for all of the work that was performed. The history of Bob's car was murky, and it probably was abused by former owner(s). I would never buy a car unless the owner could produce all of the service records. Moreover, unless I knew the owner I wouldn't buy a 996 unless it was a CPO car from a nearby Dealer.

Dammit newbie!! Why did you have to resurrect this thread? Haven't you ever read Harry Potter? Bob is like the dark lord -- we dare not speak his name! Oh crap, you made me speak his name! Crap! Now he's gonna come back and post again! That reminds me, I haven't used these in a while:

FANTASTIC. Reminds me of the old days when good triumphed over evil!

Oh gawd, here we go again. Just when you thought you were out, someone pulls you right back in.

...and the hits just keep on coming For the love of God, somebody close this thread!

THE HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on Dell, I'm literally laughing my **** off right now. I still can't believe this is back and Bob has been off the forum for months now. Maybe it's the ghost of Bob.

I had actually forgotton this one.....but sometimes the old jokes are the best. I wonder how many engine fires he has had by now.....and why the concerned lawyers of America are not suing everyone for their role in this charade. P.S. Have the film rights been secured yet?

that's classic. where is bob anyways? haven't seen him around in MONTHS

Why cant this thread die, if some of the 993 guys see this , it will confirm in their heads ONLY that their old technology is better....and if Bob was telling the truth, they could have a good argument

Yea you missed the joke I love all 911's the 993 more so them most, its a Joke that if you were around when it happend you would find it funny.

Unbelievable story. Real sorry for your problems as I would be as angry. I didn't realize that one could purchase extended warranty insurance after the factory warranty ended??? Is that right?

who cares what the 993 guys think .....it is kind of funny this Bob thread!! ..... and they don't make 993 anymore for a reason (it is called evolution)...and neither do they make the 996 anylonger in a couple of years from now we..... ( not you Kilgrt, because you got a 997 TT on order!! and I am very jealous...hope you went for the TIP ...is faster than the manual!! talking about evolution!)..... are going to react the same to the 999 or 1005!? ......and who knows how many engine problems and fires we will have had by then!!

First, you are a good support for the point to be weary of 99' cars. Did you check to make sure all the recalls were made on the car before you bought it? Although a lot of people have great luck with first year 996's, they have a lot of known issues with several recalls and TSBs to correct them. When any of this happened, did you discuss any this with the mechanic/dealer who inspected it? You have a possibility of going after them if you can prove the problems did exist when they inspected the car. Next, you have been screwed royally on your work. $3200 is extremely high on a clutch and flywheel replacement. Is there something else in this you aren't mentioning? $13,000 for a used 3.4l engine is also extremely high. Street prices on these engines are usually around $6000-7500 depending on mileage. A brand new one from Porsche complete from throttle body to exhaust manifold is only $10K and would not cost more than $2K to pull out the old one and install the new one. What else was in your parts and labor bill with the engine? Replacing body parts and a repaint? Again, is there something else you aren't mentioning? So what can you do now? You are idiot if you did not turn in the engine fire on your insurance. I certainly hope you are not one of the cheap people that has liability only. Your insurance will pay the entire bill under your "other than collision" part of your policy. This is usually one of the cheapest items on your insurance bill. Depending on the inspection by the insurance company, they might have even totaled the car and just cut a check. Since you already paid to have it fixed, go back and file a claim with your insurance. Yes, these problems sound bad, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for the owner for not making sure the parts and labor were reasonable and not being intelligent enough to file a claim with insurance.

Man if I had seen this thread in 04 I would've not bought a 996.... NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dammit newbie!! Why did you have to resurrect this thread? Haven't you ever read Harry Potter? Bob is like the dark lord -- we dare not speak his name! Oh crap, you made me speak his name! Crap! Now he's gonna come back and post again! Maybe Bob sued Porsche and got a nice payoff, but one of the stipulations on the reward is that Bob is no longer allowed to comment on his car.

Man was I snookered. When I saw "2 blown engines" I thought we were going to hear about turbos. My only question at this point is did anyone get the VIN because the latest owner may eventually pop up with HIS litany of complaints. This assumes that "bob" did in fact sell it. Yikes, I just glanced out my window and saw a white tricked out 99 996 cab with flames shooting out the rear - Bob, buddy, you visiting the right coast today?

This thread is like a bad dream, it keeps coming back.

40 minutes of my life spent digesting this excruciating rant. Fortunately oxycontin just kicked in *_*

Oh no! it's back again. I feel for bo if it's true so I wont dis him cos I cant tell either way. But I have read this thread too many times.... Please no more...

Sorry guys, for barging in...I haven't understood one inch of this thread, of Bob's misadventures, of the doubts raised, of the pros and cons... can somebody give me an executive summary? Now, seriously, why would he lie? why would he lose so much time of his life reliving the situation and writing it all down and coping with peoples doubts?? Is there something sinister lurking around in the 996 's planet? Long live air cooleds!!!!

I was joking, ok? Love all 911's. But really, can someone give me an executive summary of the story, something that I could read in under an hour? Juts one small detail, if you don't mind: how come they catch fire? Don't they have water in their insides, the 996's??

Wow ... if you guys are so certain that he is lying did anyone verify with the Seattle dealership ? Its just a phone call away ... After reading this for quite some time (its like a Novel!) I think his story DOES have some crediblity. Bob if you're reading this, I really, truely feel for you. Nobody likes to throw money but hey - at least you can afford to do it without losing your house etc ! But I think there were a bunch of different things you could have done to address your problem. 1) If you're so certain his engine will catch fire again, I'd drive into the countryside and let the damn thing catch fire again - let it burn to the ground and get insurance money. Then sue Porsche for endangering your life (no-really). 2) Or park it near a cliff and 'forget' (wink! wink!) to use the parking brakes and let the car total itself. Voila ! New car ! You won't be able to sue Porsche ... but ... 3) Or get an extended warranty for $3k and let the extended warranty company deal with it. Ultimately, the car is going to BURN money (along with the engine!) - you just have to make sure its not yours. PS: Damn ... the air cooled guys need to move ahead with technology ! Air cooled engines belong in ancient museums ... oops ... they already are at the back of them !

is that air-cooled, or HOT air-cooled?

Good lord, how could one "executive summary" the rants of Bob?? The best way I can encapsulize it is for the first 6 months of my study of this car on this forum, Bob may have posted about 2,000 different times about the "inherent failures" of the 996 engine. Despite a ton of feedback from other members about the facts of their own good experiences, Dear Bob remained steadfast in denouncing the evils of Porsche. Now he may have been mis-informed and just got a bad car, but after 2000 posts there is no doubt in my mind Bob was sincere in his suffering! He must have sold his car by now since he hasn't posted in months. Perhaps Porsche has placed him in the "disgruntled former owners witness protection program". I must admit that I miss his rants and the follow up vitiol by other members sometimes.....does that make me a masochist?

Searching4996!! I was kidding!!!!I just wanted to cause a general uproar in the 996 planet!!

we welcome air-cooled visitors. we call them shoppers.

AAh, I did cause a certain reaction... You guys sure have the liveliest forum, you know that, don't you? But air cooled is air cooled. Ancient, proven, german engineering with track record. .. How did Bob's car catch fire with all that water inside? Still eludes me, this conundrum.... Cheers

And sponges grow in the ocean, what's up with that?

This is a legendary thread, I just wanted to be part of it. The Ghosts of Rennlist, Bob's blown engines roam the forums dropping seals, rods and tubes that go clank in the night. Every year on or about the anniversary of the original post, coolant and oil mix together to form a great fireball at a used Ford dealership.

Don't forget the water, Eurotrashed..and the sponges, the ocean sponges, as well.all of that ignites as Bob's Final Revenge-The sequel.

LMAO! We should commemorate the anniversary of this post by lighting a Porsche on fire in front of a Ford dealership every year

But really, can someone give me an executive summary of the story, something that I could read in under an hour? I'll give it a shot. Don't ever buy your Porsche from a Ford Dealer.

Are you volunteering yours? Super!

we got to keep this tread alive...forever..or as long we all drive 996's just for the hell of it..this is going to be classic!

What roasting Bob on it just for laughs? (only gaggin!)

So, this is the infamous "exploding engines" thread I've heard about. It's nice to have finally read it--okay, read like two pages of it. Party on.

Well done!

I think this is what happened to Bob: Could be Bob

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

Classic.

I just joined and after reading this STORY, I almost un-joined. I'm glad I decided to read the last page. I keep extra oil and coolant next to each other in my garage. Will they combust?

Perhaps Bob is the coloured guy, with his hate for Porsches....

WATER-COOLED

Don, That's awesome. An air-cooled converted 911 water taxi.

riad...Now you have the best of one world...THE HATE LIES WITHIN....

to all you water soaked guys!! Miguel

How is coolent the cause of a fire? Maybe its the water mixed into it?

Can a moderator puuuuuleeeeeeez close this thread? I don't think Bob is on this forum anymore.

wow...sad. I feel for you since I know first hand the "issues" that are at least possible with some early 99 cars. I had a Sept 98 build 996 that was an absolute nightmare (RMS twice, same clutch blow you described, electrical gremlins, leaking sunroof...and the list goes on). The car practically LIVED at Barrier Porsche in Bellevue/Seattle to the point where PCNA at their OWN request bought the car back and literally handed me a brand new 2001 (at $15K difference in ++ options and regardless of the fact that the 99 base car had 23K miles on the clock). Needless to say that even though the 2001 car had a failed RMS at 3K it was still a night and day different (worlds better) car that was fully sorted it seems that far in to production of an entirely new gen car for Porsche. Although I now drive daily a 97 993 I do think the 996 is a great car.....although I would not ever consider or recommend a 99 model (without extended warranty) but that's just my personal experience and/or two cents FWIW.

coloured guy?

Quote: Originally Posted by Miguel Perhaps Bob is the coloured guy, with his hate for Porsches.... This just shows his mental capabilities along with his 996 buddies. They still believe in segregation..I should take this as a joke...right!!!

Have I said anything wrong? Is "coloured" an incorrect expression? Pray enlighten me,,, Bob! Hey Bob, please....any one out there?

You don't refer to black people as coloured people that was during JIM CROW era.....

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I don't believe Miguel owns a 996 btw

Right. It is a camel-coloured 993. I mean, look at those hips in the Avatar!

Visualize that .... its bloody funny !!!! But yeah, I guess we're now a part of Bob's legacy.

But definitely a TT. Looks like its got alot of horse power.

Jesus, you guys are sensitive...ok, english is not my first language. made a mistake, but you did not need to be so incensed by it.. i'm off to nicer pastures...you guys react like ladies..( and badly laid ones...)

Hey Miguel, Don't take it so hard, spstchoice is just here on the 996 forum to stir up trouble - he has nothing else to contribute. Don't worry, he'll be gone once the DoodleBops comes on the Disney channel...

thankks Joe, Get nervous with "righteous" and "zealous" personalities..Couple of languages where i'm sure I could correct his choice of words... Cheers, enjoy life! And P cars ( even water cooleds ) !!

OMG, this thread has 8700 views.

and now 173 replies.... (keep it going)

That's nothing. Check out this thread in the Off Topic forum.

Wow!! So this is where all the 99 angst comes from! I'm new to the board with a handful of posts. So at the end of the day...am I to believe the mystical Bob was real or fiction?? I couldn't quite be sure . thanks, Amir

oh god.....

Oh dear Lord.....here we go again

closing in on 10,000 views!!! UGH!

Rennlist should embed some ad code in here...should be able to make a couple of bucks with the impressions . thanks, Amir

WHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

seriously, why did you feel the need to bring this back up again?

My guess is pure SADISM!

Cancer of the Porsche is a terrible thing,...very often there is no cure. I can't believe this thread is a year and a half old !!!

This is the thread that just won't die. Marc

I'll have to remember to dredge this up and post something in 6 months or so.

Where the hell is Bob? I'm in the mood to throw a few bombs.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] http://image.xcar.com.cn/attachments/day_060610/LqvI_1149852819882.jpg

Originally Posted by munro86 Where the hell is Bob? I'm in the mood to throw a few bombs Do you see him....he is standing along side the tow truck taking inventory

The thread that won't die. But a cautionary tale for those who buy Porsches at their local Caveat Emporium.

DIE, thread, DIE!!!!!

Now, seriously.. where is Bob? Should we have a debate on the several porsche related issues he raised? Cheers

Unfortunately, I think this thread is good for at least 20 pages.....

lets place bets. i'll think it'll stop at 16 pages.

no, it won't. I won't let that happen..Bob's legacy will not die.

soeone take this one off life support. DNR, DNR!! do not ressucitate!!!

We just either need to start attacking each other with inflamatory remarks and/or post a bunch of **** and it should get moved to the Abyss. Also person threats of bodily harm or rude sexual comments get the abyss treatment. Or take a page out of OT and start posting strong political statements.

Here's Bob's post from another Porsche forum. I wonder if his story is consistent. I'm too bored to check. : Bob on 2004-09-03 at 14:01:24 (posted from: Host: c66-235-9-41.sea2.cablespeed.com IP: 66.235.9.41) Subject: Re: '99 911 first year problems? anyone have stories? (662 views) Message: Well I purchased a 99 C2 convertible, and after having it for 6 months: A) It's been in the shop for 4 months B) At 600 miles it's blown an engine while driving on the freeway, causing the car to almost burst into flames, as it started a fire in the engine compartment, multiple holes in the engine block and cracks due to the rod flying all over the place. Response from porsche? Sending us a letter and we'll look into it... And since the engine is useless, I couldn't send the core back for any type of refund... $12,000 down the drain. C) At 300 miles the clutch and flywheel went out on me while driving... $3000 D) The starter went out on me... $600 E) Radiator... bye bye.. F) another $3000 in repair costs, oil changes, etc.. G) Total time in Garage 3 weeks. Total time in repair shop, 5 months. All in all, I've spent about $20,000 in maintaince on this vehicle already and have driven less than 1000 miles on it.. pretty impressive for a car with 49k miles? Definately not recommended to buy a 99.. splurge and go for atleast a 2000 or 2001... if not, you'll most likely end up paying the money you saved for it in repair costs the first year alone...

Good idea. Unfortunately, I already did it once. A challenge was raised to see who could get a thread closed, and I posted some risque pics on the open forum. Didn't take long for Papa John to make the thread disappear. I don't want to do it again, because a second offense may force Papa John to make ME disappear. You guys will have to carry the ball on this one.

Bob??!?!? Bob?!?!?!?!? Wheeere are you???? Let's please start a debate, an essay, a whatever, on bob's porsche mishaps....and the interconnection with stutugart and the cia. everything is tied you know?

George W. Bush is a spying WAR MONGER!!!! and Palting your mother smells of elder berries!!! and

Well, you think Bob has problems; I have serious problems with my 996GT3. My right front tire is leaking air. OUTRAGEOUS! Carfax and PPI did not suggest any problems with this 3200 mile car. I am truly shocked and disallusioned. I probably will never buy another Porsche again. This massive two and one half pound leak in only 6 months of driving is driving me crazier. Doesn't Porsche care about me ?? I expect Porsche to fly two technicians to my house and reinflate my tire, plus reimburse me several thousand dollars for my mental anguish. When my attorney gets out of jail we will explore ALL legal options on this POS car!!!

Good one Larry. My attorney is also in jail now,...but when he gets out he is going to start a class action suit for not equipping my car with a spare tire. While my spare solution cost me only about $800, the mental anguish is worth at least $10-20 million.

Heh-heh, funny . But, that 'aint gonna get this thread thrown into the abyss. You need risque pics. Let's see who can thread the line between "acceptable" and "unacceptable", and who will eventually innocently cross the line. Side bets on how many pages before the threads demise can also be done. It should be fun! I don't think it will get beyond 16 pages. I think this one is still "acceptable".

Jesus Christ!! You call that acceptable? I would accept her in a nano second!!!!!

OK, one more...

Why did you guys resort to showing pictures of Bob's wife just to keep the thread alive? I understand he met her at some Ford Dealership.

This thread cannot die!! Much less now, that some gorgeous chicks have started to show up!!!! Thank you BoB!

I can't believe I read 3 full pages of this junk...all to find out the good stuff was in the very last page....

More pics please

Don't post pictures like this:

I thought Bob spent $37K on repairs. The referenced quote from another forum he states he has spent $20K. Sorry, receipts or no I call BS.

why won't you guys let this thread die :'(

I vote JimG, with 2 posts under his belt, be banned for resurrecting this thread.

Get a rope.

Some of your statements seem like exaggerations. My local Porsche dealer in suburban Philadelphia charges $95 per hour....I'm sure rates will vary, but $150 sounds high. No one, including you, will have problems with your car every 100 or 200 miles if you go with a new engine. And please...no one, including you, will keep paying $37K a month on maintenance.

What in the h..e....double hockey sticks are you thinking??? This thread was dead and you've awaken the beast!! (Tim please explain the intro policy)

This was a good post Programmatore!!

cool thread... thanks for resurrectin iit.....im thinking twice about my car since it's a 99....

Actually I believe that this thread has now reached iconic status and should never be allowed to die. Maybe just let it linger for a few years as a testimony to Bob's plight. BTW I actually saw an ad for a 996 at a Ford Dealer. Could it be Bob's old car?

Yes, sir! I'll get right on it! Jim - It is customary for Newbies to introduce themselves, tell us a little about their cars, and post pics of their P-cars. You have done none of those, plus you have angered the P-car gods by raking up muck from the bottom of the contaminated nuclear waste pond! Your not getting off to a really good start here! BTW, just so you know... most of the above is a joke, so don't take offense. Seriously, welcome to Rennlist, the best Porsche site on the 'net. We would like to see some pics of your car, 'cuz we LOVE pics! Most of us are "pic ******" and a few of us are merely "pic *****" but we DO love our pics! Mister Ray, sir! How did I do, sir?

Now that's what we're talking about

I tried to add a signature but could not find an option for this. I have had a 2001 Boxster for almost 3 years now and live in Phoenix. I am retired USAF and now work for SRP as an instrument tech. I am currently looking to trade up because my warranty ran out a few months ago. I figured I might as well save the 3k a warranty would cost and put it towards a new Cayman or certified 996.

With tact and grace......

JimG, I believe you must be a member in order to create a signature. Just one of the many perks of Rennlist membership! Now, about those pics?!

Please! I beg you nooooooooooo....

Jim - As Kevin H. stated you have to be a paying member to add a sig. Here are my "can't miss" instructions for posting a pic. They have never failed to help someone post a pic. All words shown in BOLD indicate buttons. If you are just doing a "Quick Reply" you will have to click on Go Advanced button. Then follow the steps below: Down below the part of the screen where you type the text and below the Submit Reply the Preview Post and Spell Check buttons, there is a Miscellaneous Options section followed by an Attach Files section. In the Attach Files section, click on the Manage Attachments button. You will now get a pop-up window. There are 3 buttons Browse , Upload , and Close this Window . Click on the Browse button and now (in a new pop-up window) you can search on your PC to locate the pic you want to attach. Click on the name of the file you want and then click the Open button. Now click on the Upload button. After the file has been uploaded, you can click on Browse button and repeat the process to upload another pic or click on the Close this Window button. After you click on the Close this Window , you will be back to the original "message" screen. Your pic file should be listed just above the Manage Attachments button. If you are finished typing the text, you can click on the Submit Reply button and everyone will be able to see your great looking P-car! If your pics are too large, you can resize them with MS Paint, or PhotoShop software, or you can do it online at this web site. http://www.resize2mail.com/

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/drink.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/prog_let_it_die.jpg

any word ?

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

Nice to see Bob return, did he come up with a new member ID and start this thread again?

Ya, when I bought my MY2002 C4S, it only had 1 month left on the factory warranty. After reading this board and listening to my boy, Dell et el, I decided a warranty was the most important thing I could do. For $1500 I bought a warranty equal to CPO. This warranty last me till 2010, albeit only 60k miles. I figured with car that only has 17k miles and I only put about 6k miles a year on it, this warranty was perfect for me. I only wish MORE people would introduce themselved and ASK QUESTOINS HERE, before they buy!!!

Stop the madness

Let's try a new tack: Hey SR71, nice spoiler you poseur!

.....

I but the minute they ask qustions they get crucified when asking questons about rms, engine failure, etc. can't we be a kinder gentler 996 forum ??? kubiah baby.... get back on the 944 forum TD you are not welcome here

It's kumbayah you friggin' Godless heathen Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya! Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya! Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya! O Lord, kumbaya! Programmatore�s laughing, Lord, kumbaya! Programmatore�s laughing, Lord, kumbaya! Programmatore�s laughing, Lord, kumbaya! O Lord, kumbaya! Bob is crying, Lord, kumbaya! Bob is crying, Lord, kumbaya! Bob is crying, Lord, kumbaya! O Lord, kumbaya! Dell is scolding, Lord, kumbaya! Dell is scolding, Lord, kumbaya! Dell is scolding, Lord, kumbaya! O Lord, kumbaya! Riad is singing, Lord, kumbaya! Riad is singing, Lord, kumbaya! Riad singing, Lord, kumbaya! O Lord, kumbaya! Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya! Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya! Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya! O Lord, kumbaya!

oh oh oh who is a heathen ? you claim to never hang out over here I'm telling dorki you are such a ......poseur....

Just to razz you . . . just to razz you . . . kubiah my brother! EDIT: HEY goodhands . . . you edited your post you friggin poseur. Kubiah to you ****.

i've got a wife telling me to get the hell off the computer...she doesn't give a sh*t what exhaust system i am looking for. i've got a daughter asking me to put a princess dress on. and my son is IM 'ing me he needs money down at college supposedly for books but i know it's for beer. i just don''t have time for spllechick. and shouldn't you be watching american idol right now anyway ?

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

Hey, thanks!! Its my formula for avoiding catastrophic engine failure Posing definitely has its advantages.

Someone told me on another forum that if I post in this thread, that I'd be protected from engine failure for the duration of my ownership . Sorry.

No you have to go to the mirror in your bathroom and say, "Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls".

It's alive....

Porsches suck....I mean they blow.....but I think it is a stick problem and since I am driving a tip...I won't have that problem. Hope Bob has more luck with his Camry

OMG, who brought this back? Ray, get a rope!!! Never mind, I've got one!

and who jumped right on it????.....did I hear T.....I......M....????

Bob is back? I guess we are back to the Porsche bought at Ford. Hopefully Bob is driving a Ford now.

someone please let this die!

Oh for the love of Pete, this is STILL around? Dear god... C.

Great literature never dies!

///

who.....what........who in the hell resurrected this thread?

This three year old thread is Closed..... Sheeeshhhh... JD