Clutch gone already?

3 year old 2003 C4C, 19,000 miles, never tracked, driven localy and not that hard. In 3rd or 4th gear there is occasionnaly some slippage between 4k and 5k rpm at full throttle. Is this normal? Any chance to get the dealer to use the factory warranty? Only 19,000 miles... Searching this forum, it looks like cost would be up to $2,500 at the dealer but an independant could do it for under $1,5000 (like Autospot design in Huntington, LI?). Maybe an upgraded clutch is an option, but I don't race. Last do you need to change the oil at the same time you do the job? Thanks!

No, not at all.

Paul ^ is the only person I know of that hasn't changed their clutch with his milage. I wouldn't say its normal at 19 k.Now if you had 40 k that is normal. A clutch should not slip at any time..you need a new one, 1500 sounds overpriced to me.

Without tracking, you should be getting 70,000+ miles out of your clutch with ease on any car. Many will get well over 100,000 miles. Obviously, if you do not engage the clutch properly, your mileage may be reduced. If you are slipping only occasionally, it may not be the clutch disc at all. I just replaced mine at 50,000 miles and half the material on the disc was left untouched. You could have binding of the clutch slave or the actuator arm (lever). Or you could have occasional oil on the disc. Other than the slave, you will have to have the tranny removed to look. Cost, with Porsche clutch kit should be around $1200 from an idependent and $1500 from a dealer.

Call around for price quotes. They will differ dramatically.

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like the best approach from here is just to go to the dealer making sure the clutch job isn't north of $1,500, and to try to get some warranty coverage. Anyone on the "oil change is part of a clutch job?".

No oil change.

Just had my clutch replaced a month ago and i have 57K on the car and track it regularly (as does my wife). 19K sounds really low to have to replace the clutch but I not out of the ordinanry. Your clutch is a wear and tear item (like brake pads) and I can't imagine ANY dealer replacing your clutch under warranty at 19K. Many have gone out well before 19K as well. All depends on your history with the clutch. You may not drive the car hard but hovering on the clutch and slow releases, etc., over time with greatly reduce the life of that bad boy. And if you need a clutch you do NOT need to "upgrade" your clutch. The standard clutch is very good. Unless you are needing to shave weight and you track ALOT then you will be very unhappy with an upgrade.

Check and see if your RMS is leaking at all, if it is you can have Porsche replace it under warranty and while the trany is down have them install a clutch kit at the same time, you wont have to pay labor because they need to pull the trany anyway. Thats what happened with my 02 C4S with 23K on it. It cost me $465 plus tax for all that work.

If you live in a metropolitan city (read, NYC in yours and my cases) with LOTS of stop and go traffic, then you are surely going to be changing the clutch a lot sooner than 70,000 miles. When I blew through mine in the mid 30's on my old Boxster, the service shops all said (yes, I consulted 3) that it was par for the course here in the city what with traffic lights every block, stop and go traffic every time you try and go anywhere (and forget about the Hamptons at anytime on weekends in the summer), and my own little propensity to 'pound the rock' in spirited driving on weekends in Westchester and Connecticut. Does 19k sound low? Yes, but maybe you're just driving hard as heck in the city?

A new clutch friction plate is under $200, and at that mileage, the pressure plate and throwout bearing are most likely fine. Check to see if there is any oil collecting at the bottom of the bellhousing between the engine and transmission. If there is, then you will need to have your RMS or IMS replaced, which on your car would be a warranty item, so all of the labor in getting at the clutch plate is on Porsche. BTW, R&R for a clutch plate can be done in under 3.5 hours, so if your mechanics labor rate is $125/hr the entire bill should not be over $800. Porsche dealer service technicians routinely do an RMS R&R in under 4 hours so they can do a clutch in the same or less time. I would be very surprised if the friction material on the clutch plate was below minimum specification. And it is very unlikely that oil seeping from the RMS/IMS would get on the clutch plate. I would look at the master and slave hydraulic cylinder actions to make sure that they are releasing properly. If it is that they are not releasing properly, that is a warranty item.

Replaced mine in my 99 C2 at 43k miles for slipping. Wasn't that noticeable to me at least until I took it into my independant shop and they called me while doing my 45k service to let me know. Cost me $1200 for a new clutch and labor. Drive in city traffic in Washington DC Metro area so much like New York I can imagine to some degree. Rob

Car is 3 years old 19K, RMS was done at 1 year 12K. I will check if there is oil under, but there is no oil on my garage floor so I doubt it (who would have thought I wished they didn't fix the RMS properly ). Is it worth waiting a few months to see if the RMS reappears, or will the clutch just get worse along with possible other components failure?

Have your Clutch master, and slave cylinder checked out first. If one of those items are not completely releasing or if the slave to throw out bearing arm adjustment is not set correctly, the pressure plate may not be completely engaging. Since the transmission has been out once, this cannot be ruled out. I find it amazing that anyone could waste a clutch at such low miles unless they pop it at every light. Even my daughter who lives in the hollywood hills gets 100K out her clutch, and that with consistent starts and stops on inclines. Stop and go traffic is no excuse for a clutch friction plate to be used up at such a low milage. Short of a improperly adjusted release arm, the only excuse for such a short life is poor driving technique.

Nice car, very close to my combo (guards red/savanna beige). Regarding my driving, it is my second manual porsche and 5th manual car in the past 17 years, never had a clutch problem. Maybe the wife but she drives very well and drove my other cars too... So should I wait or get it checked quickly? Thanks

I'd get it checked out with the complaint that the clutch does not seem to be engaging fully.

i agree with orient express 19k is real low for a porsche clutch especially since the tranny has been out and they were working in that area with the rms otherwise we've all got honda civic clutches and owe! that hurts to think about : 99 with 62k tach all the way up to 72 and never slips ever something is amiss take orients advice it's sound repost to let us know how it went

I will.

996 clutches are sensitive as hell, only the slightest pressure on the pedal will open it up a bit and you will get premature wear. be sure to keep your foot off it when not using it. I know its the obvious thing but just having your foot on the pedal can open it a bit. www.red964.com/html/dyndex.php www.projectsonly.co.uk

So what is the safest method to shift in order to prolong one's clutch? I'd be interested in hearing some drivers' preferences....

Same as with every manual transmission car, spend as little time as possible with the pedal anywhere in between all the way in, or all the way out.

Good Gear change technique is based on smoothness in matching engine revs to gearbox revs. If the rotational speeds of the engine and transmission are synchronized, then the clutch plate does not have to slip as much when it engages. This translates into better gear changes with less wear on the driveline components. Ease out the clutch and build revs smoothly, keep you foot off the clutch when not in use is my mantra I drive aggressively, but I still get 100+K out of a clutch. The only time I got less was when I was 16 and stupid. I thought that dumping the clutch at every light with wheel spin and smoke was really cool! Until... the clutch would not engage at all, and I had to go begging to the parents for money to replace it.

Follow up: new clutch, but the flywheel was good... Got to have a little talk with the wife about her driving... Also new front brakes, rotors and front tires, ouch...

Ouch is right! Unlikely you need new brakes at 19,000 miles unless you are riding the brake pedal al the time. Brakes should last 40 -7-,--- miles easily is you do not track the car. Dealer probably just took advantage of someone who wouldn't question them. I tell this story all the time: I changed my brakes on my Toyota SUV and a few weeks later I got a recall for replacing the lower ball joints. Dropped the car off and a few hours later I got a call from the servive adviser saying that I need new brakes and rotors all around. I went over to the dealership and asked the manager to have the tech show me my worn out brakes. Needless to say, he was speechless. Normal scare tactics by some dealers. Verify, verify, verify! Currently have 50,000+ miles on my brakes with 30 -40% remaining.

Well 20,000 miles for front brakes sounds normal for 911 front brakes, you mean you could get 75,000 miles with your original brakes? Do you drive a lot on the highways? I do mostly local driving with some hills. Anyway Porsche brakes now have indicators, I guess everyone could just wait until it lights up in the dashboard. As for my dealer, I trust him, I bought several cars there and he knows I am more mechanicaly knowledgeable that most of his customers, and they always warrantied things that could be questionnable. They have more to loose by not doing the right thing as there are other Porsche dealers around where I live. About your Toyota story, I would have asked for a refund of your original brake job as they obviously tried to gouge you.

That's what they are hoping. How do you think they sell sell sell?

Small price to pay for the peace of mind.

Peace of mind or lighter wallet? The latter increases HP by 10 so I could understand your rationale

Yeah, Ignorance is bliss for a fool and his money. As 1999Porsche911 said, 40-70K for brakes is normal. For any less, one should consider a evaluation of their driving technique. I have 48K on my brakes, and have 50% of the Pad remaining.

You must do a lot of highway driving... 100K with the original brakes? That must be some kind of record. Only local roads for me... Also why would they lie on the brakes? They warned me before hand the flywheel could be messed up, much easier way for them to make much more money instead of the brakes... They could also have pushed for an alignement because of the new front tires (one was damaged) on a 3 year old car...

SciFrog, people that drive in long commute states (ie. not around New York City) get a lot more mileage on their brakes and clutches. I routinely get over 50k on brakes, but my last clutch only lasted 35k miles. Damn that stop and go city traffic.

Do you keep you foot on the clutch during stops? Or put it in netural and let the clutch out? Like all other have said 19K is not normal....replaced mine around 48K with 20K ot that in track miles.... and my clutch did not need replacing...I did it to get the light flywheel...!!! clitch had a lot of life in it.

I put it in neutral and let the clutch out during stops...but that happens quite a lot around here.

I leave the foot on except for long lights... Well at least I enjoy the car...

Keeping the pedal to the floor while stopped does not, in any way, cause additional wear to the disc any way and it is the proper and safe way do drive.

Yeah, but then you wind up walking around a with a left calf muscle that is twice as big as the right.

Try driving the car WITHOUT the booster spring like I do. No assistance whatsoever. Having grown up with muscle cars, a Porsche' clutch is hardly difficult to keep pressed down.

Amazing how much softer is the pedal with the new clutch, now I can really keep it down for all lights ah. Seriously, I checked the rear brakes and they only have 40% left, so the fronts were really close to toast. I also found other people who have replaced their clutch even earlier (20Km). Anyway, I guess I just follow the saying "just drive it everyday like you stole it". Thanks for all the inputs.