C2 vs S4 vs M3

I want to compare those 3 cars on straight line and track. 320hp C2 runs 4.6-4.7 for 0-60mph, right?

I don't know about the S4, but on the track the C2 vs. M3 comes down to the driver in my experience.

www.track-challenge.com you can compare cars (even 3.4 996 & 3.6 996) to eachother in terms of acceleration, track times around the "ring" and "hockenheim" the c2 and m3 will both take out an S4 no problem... in any acceleration test.

I've owned an 03 M3 and currently have an 05 S4, both 6 speeds. Don't own a C2 yet. M3 slightly faster 0-60 than S4 but S4 beats it 0-30. S4 has great just off the line (4wd). S4 is an awesome daily driver/street car. It's not a track car, weighs 3,800 lbs.

Depends which model S4 and if any mods. I've had all 3 cars - currently a highly modified B5 S4 and a C2 cab. My S4 can pretty much do everything better than the M3 or C2. My M3 was an SMG cab and I think faster in a straight line than the C2. The C2 was better in the turns than the M3 IMO. Stock for stock, no question both the M3 and C2 beat the S4 in a straight line and in turns (B5, B6 or B7 model).

Is this a trick question?

996>M2>S4 The difference between these isn't all about 0-60. Most of it is about how the car feels. If you care about performance alone, get a C6 vette and you'll beat or come close to all of them with more HP to brag while saving money.

great observation. although for some reason a lot of american drivers just look at the $$$$ when deciding what car to buy 'the corvette is a great value...'

If you're considering buying one, drive them all. You can mod any one of these to make it faster on a straight. Mod the C2 to make it handle better than the M3 on the track and visversa(sp?). Think about what you want to do and go from there but drive all. If all it's about is 0-60 and fast on the track get a 2002 Z06 and your faster that all with less $$. But for me I'll stick w/ my 996. But I can't stop modding!! k

Ditto. Though looking at the trackchallenge comparison of the e46 M3 and the much older 3.4l 996, the 996 takes the M3 pretty clearly (with similarly skilled driver?). A newer 996 would smoosh it badly.

[QUOTE=jasonfreed]My S4 can pretty much do everything better than the M3 or C2. QUOTE] Hey, you sure about this?

I have a *mildly* modified B5 S4 (MY 2000-2003). It'll outrun most M3s and 911s in a straight line but the moment the road gets twisty it looses out. It's a highly tuneable platform however and with enough mods can do some amazing things. Nonetheless, when it was pitted against the 996 (standard C2s, not GT3 Cup cars) in GrandAm cup racing it more often than not lost that battle. The GAC cars weren't as highly developed as the Champion World Challenge cars which competed favorably against GT3 Cup cars. Both of these series are managed/equalized racing series. It's an easy car to drive fast and since turbocharged it has tons of torque when chipped. If you swap turbos it can generate a lot of horsepower as well as torque.It's a great street car. My race car though is a 996 C2 and my modded S4 can't touch it! -KJ

the B5 S4 is tired and shouldn't even be considred here. not the most reliable kit. heavy. understeers like a fat chick on ice skates. a lot of cars can be made to go fast in a straightline. that's easy to do.

My '04 996 with X51 (345 HP) is clearly quicker than my '04 M3 was...has a bit more power, more midrange tourque and is of course 10% lighter than the BMW. The M is easier to just jump in and go fast, however, with the 50/50 weight distribution.

I want to compare those 3 cars on straight line and track. In stock condition: 1. C2 2.M3 3.S4 Does this mean that the S4 is a piece of garbage? Of course not. My wife has a B7 S4 and it's an outstanding GT car. It provides decent acceleration, comfortably seats four, handles well, and has a gorgeous interior.

I have a 02 Z06 as well as the 05 S4. Yes if you are just looking at 0-60, the Z06 made my M3 and S4 feel slow.

One thing people don't realize about the "ring" times is what types of cars were actually tested. The 99' Carrera that ran the 8:17 was a coupe. The 02' that ran the same time, was a much heavier Euro Targa. Obviously a coupe with the sports suspension would have been faster. There is also no official time for a 997' Carrera, only for the Carrera S. When people saw Walter Rohr ran a 8:11 in a Cayman, they responded that the Cayman was faster than the Carrera. When they asked Walter Rohr about it, he said back that the Carrera is 5 seconds faster. Back in 2004, I drove 3 of the cars in question on the same day: a 2003 Z06, a 2002 M3 on 18" wheels and a 2004 40th An Carrera. This was the 2nd time I had driver a Z06. The first Z06 I drove earlier ran like a bat out of hell wanted to tear the tires off in 2nd gear. I had to drive a used one because the Chevy dealers will simply not let you drive thier precious Corvettes new. So they take you over to the used car lot instead. This particular MY Z06 already had dozens of cracks in the seats, a multitude of squeeks and rattles and a hood that would shake in the center at the cowl. It drifted badly from side to side on the highway, as did the first Z06 I drove. It was very much a disappointment, especially for a car less than a year old. It could be that this was just a badly abused car or that GM's build quality is just that bad. I will never know since I have never driven a new one and now driven 3 Z06s used with the same disappointing results. With this type of sales tactics, it is no wonder why GM is going under. Bottom line GM, 3 strikes and your out. I drove the 40th An Carrera next. I wasn't really looking to buy it, I just just looking at used Carreras. They had one with less than 2K miles on it and the salesman just suggested I drive it. I couldn't afford it at that time, but I simply could not refuse. I drove it for about 40 minutes around the Turtle Creek area of Dallas. Lots of tight windy streets. The car was wonderful, very tight, accurate and responsive. It felt stronger than the Z06 I drove earlier with better brakes. The only thing I did not like was the vague shifter with the long throws. It was a very enjoyable drive and still sits in my mind today. Last, I drove the 02' M3. This was a low mileage car with less than 10K miles. The interior looked new without a single mark or crack in the interior. It even smelled new. It was fairly tight. I noticed more chassis flex than the other cars, yes more than even the Vette. It has a smooth amount of torque and power, just less than the Carrera. The engines actually feel very similar. What really stood out was as you shift into the next gear, you could feel a surge of torque immediately. What did not stand out was the rest of the car. The interior is...cheap. At least that's how it looks and feels. The brakes were mushy and the shifter was vague. The handling was extremely disappointing. It understeers badly, particularly at slower speeds. Turn-in is poor at best and worst of any car I have driven in the last 5 years. Only on 1 turn I took fast, over 50 mph on throttle, could I get the car close to neutral. I got out of it and back into my G35 and the test drive just made the G35 seem a lot better. It has a nicer interior, better handling, shifter and brakes. It just lacked the power. The M3 was a big disappointment, especially since I have driven an E36 M3 before and they are very neutral with great turn-in. I drove a 2nd E46 M3 a week or 2 later on 19's and it was ever worse. The ride grossly deteriorated and even at high speeds it understeered horribly. It was actually this series of test drives that kept me in my G35 coupe for another year and a half and what infuenced me to only look at a 996 for its replacement. I haven't driven an S4, but I am curious to how it compares to the M3. I have not been looking at a sedan, so it is not on my list.

taking "ring" times as absolute values is .... laughable. they're just fun numbers to throw around. grain of salt at best. and the G35 interior being better than the M3's? The carrera's interior better than the M3's? totally beauty is in the eyes of the beholder deal. M3 a horribly understeering car? wow. Carrera > M3 > B7 S4

I'm contemplanting a move from M3 to 996. I think I'd miss the M3 'hooligan' manners. Having owned a 993 and a B5 S4 I'll say the C2 is my fav. Ben - yes the M3 is an understeering pig (at the track). Needs a stiffer swaybar.

I also test drove those 3 cars (S4, M3, 996, and many, many others, hey may as well enjoy the process) whenever I was shopping around. These are all fine cars, without a doubt, and the choice ultimately comes down to what you are looking for. Strangely, I was not shopping for a P, but a "fun" car. After I test drove a 996 C2 it became crystal clear that that is exactly the feel I was looking for. There are things about the 996 I am less impressed about, the interior, the radio, but that is not what that car is all about. The M3 is fine car, has more space, is more practical, uses more fuel, but it's heavier, and I don't like heavy cars. Power seems to come on much later than the 996. Chances are that the M3s are marginally more reliable than the P's. The clever electronics impressed me as well though it concerned me as well. I like simpler cars. The previous poster commented on the M3 brakes. Something must have been wrong because I felt that the M3 brakes were significantly grabbier than the 996s (at least when cold, can't comment on hot). I liken the S4 (the one with the V8) as an A4 with a hemi. It's a much bigger heavier car, not as tossable as the 996 though the AWD may give it an interesting advantage in some situations (note that I did like the 996 C4s as much fun as the C2s). Unlike the M3, low end is better, and the price is less as well. The interior left me cold though. Audi's reliability is below that of BMW. My #2 choice of all the cars I drove was the VW R32. It's a blast to drive, very practical, but ultimately the build quality and reliability left me a bit concerned (pieces were already falling off before the car left the lot), service quality is still a problem. So ultimately it comes down to what you like best, or what you want to do with the car.

it surely doesn't take track time to know it's a pig at the track, on the street, in the garage, on your bathroom scale

preach

Benjamin Choi - I'm absolutely 100% certain my S4 does everything better than my C2 or my M3 did. I like my C2 a lot - handles great, cab, fast enough, etc....I've just modded the weak parts of my S4. They are obviously completely different cars meant for completely different purposes, but, with mods my S4 would better my C2 in a straight line and on a track. A modded C2, forget it, it would turn circles around the Audi on a track. My C2 is stock. Put some bigger turbos, suspension and brakes on the Audi and you have yourself a pretty incredible all around performer. Again, stock for stock C2>M3>S4. In my S4s current state: S4>C2 (stock)>M3 (stock).

I have two of them myself a 02 M3 and 99 C2 and straight line the M3 beats the C2 in my experience. My M3 does also have a Dinan Software Stage I Performance Upgrade but otherwise still revs faster and is slightly faster in a straight line to 60mph. After that they get to be pretty even. As for handling, the C2 does it better...feels like I am on rails and one with the road. The M3 is nice especially in sport mode but the C2 is better. Both beat the S4 I'd think...but haven't ever owned or driven one.

How about the RS4? different beast.

M3 beats C2... that's questionable... they are both pretty close... comes down to driver... if you do a timed run... the 99C2 is faster... 4.6 to 60 for my 99 c2. from a stoplight the rear weight bias of a C2 will *always* give you a better launch... but I'm stopping right here cause I didn't buy the C2 to dragrace... lol... handling yes... C2 is miles ahead... especially with some type of sport suspension... I raced a V8 S4 last night... in gear acceleration I pulled on him and then we had 2 stoplight drag races.... at the lights I raped him; but then drag racing comes down to driver skill...

The Audi is a great performer and with turbo tunability it certainly is fast and has great daily utility + winter capability... can't go wrong with that... The RS4 looks like it would pull a 1/4 mile time in the high 12's.... from the numbers I"ve seen that car is seriously fast and handing to boot!!

what about that sound fellas? esp when you're cruising at 15mph... that boxer engine sounds like a damn rolls royce jet engine on the boeing airplanes. THe M3 sounds horrible and the Audi is just OK.

I just compared a 997S to GT3 on that web site, and the 997S beats the GT3 in every catagory except ring time where it was 2 seconds slower. How can that be for a car that is 5 hp less and 70Kg heavier?

that's because you compared the MK1 GT3 to the Carrera S... if you go back in the dropdown list there is the newer gt3 listed.... (2003)... the newer GT3 blows the "S" away.... so the new Carrera S is impressive when you see it's faster (by a hair) than the MK1 GT3!!! the list also shows 99 3.4 996 and the newer 3.6 996... enjoy

You are correct, I just saw the GT3 and assumed it was the latest iteration. . Interesting that the newer GT3 gained 21 hp AND 30kg. That being said, I wonder how the X51with the extra 30hp will hold up against the GT3 .

carrera s with x51 should be *very* close to MKII GT3 in terms of acceleration... the x-51 package should bring down the 0-200km/h time by 1.5 seconds putting it right with the MKII-GT3.

true but the accel isn't everything. If you intend to track GT3 is the car. If you want GT3 power for the street then the 997SX51 is the car.

I agree... the 997SX51 is well suited for double duty.

The car in the dropdown listbox in the "comparison" section is *not* the targa but the lighter 02 3.6 coupe. if you go to the "tracktest" on the LHS of the page you will see that a Targa was indeed tested and is still slower around the hockenheim than the 99 3.4 1:15.9 vs. 1:16.6 both the coupe and targa 3.6 have been tested... on *different* test dates... and for some reason the 3.4 beat them around the track... not by much though.

AMS has built alot of its business on modifying B5 S4's (we make alot of 450+HP S4's) and our time attack S4 is a monster (having the most wins in NASA Time Trials) but.... <start comment>The following comment is Daniel's comment, and in no way reflects AMS C'MON! HOW CAN YOU COMPARE AN S4 to a PORSCHE?! ITS A PORSCHE! </end comment> unless ofcourse, your S4 is an RS4:

nice audi