Oil Analysis - High aluminum and iron, what does it mean?

Just got my first oil analysis back, car is a 2003 C4S with 115,670km. Anything to worry about? blackstone.jpg

Uh bruh, why do you have 9500 miles on that oil?

looks like it may really be 9500 KM

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From Canada, only 9500km on it. Considering Porsche Canada recommends oil changes every 20000km or every 2 yrs.

I think you may be leaving the oil too long before changing it. 9,500 Kms. Thats just below 6000 miles. From what I read 5000 miles is about right under normal driving conditions. Half that milage if you are tracking the car. I know synthetic can be pushed up to 7000 miles but I wouldn't even push synthetic beyond 5000 under normal driving conditions. Why risk even the slightest of unwanted wear on our engines by pushing oil to it's limit. Thats only in my honest opinion. Bollox to what Porsche Canada says. They are talking a load of crap and delight in selling engines to unsuspecting customers.

I completely agree. Oil and filter is cheap compared to +$20K for a new engine.

I knew you guys would get along.

Like the report says " a bit more piston scuffing than average" is where your excessive aluminum is coming from. Iron may be rings, piston pins, cams, crank, chains or possibly bearing material. I might consider doing a flush if the oil has run long mileage cycles. This would be to get an inexpensive oil, paraffin based 5w30 or 5w40 and run it for a day or two then change it. If running another than recommended weight I'd not push the car hard. The mineral oil will be a great seal conditioner and lifters like it too. Then change it back to the synthetic that you usually run. In the '60s we would flush motors with a mix of kerosene and motor oil 50/50, run for half an hour and flush out the sluge. This was before detergent oils were popular.

Your oil's numbers are in line with the averages. These engines are alum. and a bit of flashing in the oil gets pulverized and can bump that alum. number up some. Or if the oil gets acidic it can start to corrode the alum. and this can bump the number up too. As for iron the pistons are coated with the stuff to prevent alum. piston the alum. cylinder wall scuffing. Metals that would be present if an IMSB wear coming apart are not present. About the only thing I would go along with that others have posted is the oil is probably about 1000 miles past its change by date or miles. 5K miles is about all I'd run an oil. (Do not read in the Turbo forum where I posted I let my Turbo run 10Kmiles between oil changes... I'm so ashamed.) There's no sludge to remove. I'd never run any 5w-30 or mineral oil or kerosene in these engines. All this would likely due is cause accelerated wear to the camshaft lobes, lifter tops, and VarioCam hardware. Approved oils for these engines are all high detergent oils. The engine's interior is fine. Just change the oil/filter and go back to driving your car. I mean it is running ok right? Just keep doing what you've been doing, except running the oil for 9500km.

i wouldn't worry at all. those average numbers do not reflect different engine design and material used. as for oil change frequency, i actually think you are changing it fairly frequently at 5k miles or 10k km. i changed mine at 10k mi every two years. engine holds 9-10 qts and this extends the service interval greatly. changing it at 5k miles is even a waste imo. there are those that still subscribe to 3k miles, which is a complete waste of resources.

For comparison sake, I just had my oil tested. 5,300 miles of use on a 93,000 mile engine. Blend of M1 15W-50 and Castrol Syntec 5W-50. My alum was 4 (and very close to previous report) Iron was 6 (ditto)

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Macster - An awesome response! Detailed, helpful, and easily scannable.

Thanks everyone for your reply, I did the analysis more to prevent IMSB issue. The engine runs fine, more preventative. The engine has already been changed under warranty, and has about 52k km on it. I guess I will try to change it more often at 7500km. I store the car in the winter, so I just changed the oil in Nov. Good to have fresh oil over the winter to prevent any corrosion.

I'm really not sure where you guys get the idea that synthetic oil will only last 5k miles during street use. While it agrees with random people on the internet that repeat what others say, it disagrees with the oil manufacturers, the engine manufacturers, oil analysis from these engines, and SAE reports on oil durability. When not tracking the car and doing more than 10k miles in a year I ran 10k mile intervals and my oil analysis looked fine (I'll need to look up the Fe and Al levels for the OP). In general I'm never against preventative maintenance, and these are your cars so you can do whatever you want, however suggesting that someone is doing something wrong by following a 9500km change interval is inaccurate.

Mobil 1 every 5k miles no matter what has served me well for last 2.5 years

REGARDLESS OF MILEAGE, annual oil changes for me for all vehicles (hardly exceed 5,000 miles/year with any one of them)).

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Good point! yes the 3.6 is a known cylinder scuffer so extended oil change intervals are false economy! To the OP halve your next oil change interval & have the oil anaylized at the same lab then choose which method you prefer.

Quit wasting money on oil analysis, instead use the money to buy more oil. Every 3000 miles or 3 to 4 months. Cheap peace of mind. The oil in all my vehicles always looks new when I check it.

What if the fresh oil from frequent changes caused more engine wear? Would you go for longer intervals then? See http://papers.sae.org/2003-01-3119/

If seem that oils have come a long way in the past 20yrs, yet attitudes to oil changes havent

I believe that, in part, the interval debate for our cars is influenced by the IMSB issue and published recommendations. Such as, change the oil at 5,000 mile intervals, run the engine at higher RPM's to promote splash lubrication of the bearing and keep the IMS running concentric. These recommendations have been published on the LNE website, excellence magazine, panamera magazine, and I'm confident published elsewhere as well. I had the IMSB replaced on the C2 but will still change oil around the 5k mark, but it sure is nice to stop thinking I have to drive her harder than necessary to prevent a problem. As to oil analysis, makes sense to me and I have them done at each oil change. Again, the IMSB was the promoter for me, consider Jake's "Guardian" as an example. Yet I also like knowing that I have no fuel or moisture present as well. For the OP - my first oil analysis on my C4S also showed high aluminum and Blackstone commented that as a low mileage engine I might expect the aluminum count to drop as mileage increased. Next change, 5300 miles later, and indeed my aluminum count was closer to the universal average.

The way I see it, the more often I change the oil, the more time I spend under the car checking for problems, finding oil contaminates, leaks, etc. before disaster strikes. I bought my 996 to work on it not drive it into the ground or into an early grave.

Quite a debate going on about intervals. I will try changing it at a lower mileage next year and send another sample to the lab to see. Unfortunatley we get to pay much more for Mobil 1 up north, so each oil change becomes quite expensive, $250-300 depends on where you go. So the oil analysis for $25 is good value to see the condition of the oil before a change.

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I change the oil in my TDI every 35 000km interval and the internals are spotless. This is over twice the factory recomendation. Changing the only like a maniac, doesn't guarantee anything. I never changed the oil before the recomended interval and never had any oil related issues with any of my cars. Something worth thinking about.

To the OP, I took a look at my old reports at roughly the same mileage on my engine. On that particular interval I had ~9000 miles. My Al level was only 1/5 of yours and my iron level was a little less than half of yours.

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Thanks, so looks like there might be some abnormal findings. Will do another one next season to see what we find.

Why dont you look inside the engine to see what is really going on?

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Any low cost way of doing it?

Other than the usual oil filter inspection and pan removal, you can easily scope the bores if you want.

Love me a good oil thread. Been awhile!

Based on four oil changes and four oil analyses, here's are the facts for my '99 996 (currently w/67K miles): mileage Al Fe 9K 7 22 5K 3 7 4-5K 3 8 5K 2 5 The oldest event is at the top and the newest is at the bottom. All changes are annual changes and fills are Mobil 1 0W/40W. Conclusion? The data clearly suggests that long oil change intervals should be avoided to minimize wear, and 5K is about right for daily drivers. relinuca

Oops...the posting kind of messed up the columns. To explain, 9K 7 22 means 9,000 miles on oil, Aluminum ppm is 7, and Iron ppm is 22. The ppm could be converted to mg/kg if someone wants to do the math. relinuca

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Have you torn down the engine to confirm the internals are spotless? When I had a TDi even after 5K miles the oil was black as the ace of spades. Normal with a diesel engine. Soot. I can't imagine how much soot TDi oil that has been in service for nearly 4 times that many miles would contain. I'd find it hard to believe the oil's detergents could keep the soot in suspension that long. BTW, VW changed the oil change interval for my TDi (02 Golf) from 10K miles to fewer miles -- I can't recall the miles now -- because VW USA classified the area i which I lived/drove as a harsh usage area. The area? KC MO. Seems the humidity, temp changes, and dust in the air from at various times agriculture activity led VW USA to recommend (in fact specify) more frequent oil/filter services. How did I learn of this? No phone call from VW USA or the dealer where I bought the car. Nothing in the mail. No text message. There was a notice on the VW dealer service manager's desk, a placard/sign, stating VW USA's change in the oil change interval.

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That may not be conclusive or worse give on a false alarm. There was a users ride write up in one of the UK published Porsche mags about a Cayman owner who's car smoked a bit more than normal and a borescope inspection found "scoring". Being the car was out of warranty the owner continued to drive the car and after some miles (several thousand, around 10K IIRC) the smoking was gone and the engine was running just fine.

So, what's the best oil to run?

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When the timing belt jumped I tore the engine apart. This was at 375 000km and it was spotless. I sold the car at 550 000km and it still had the original turbo. Diesel engine oils get pitch black in less than a day but that's just a tint and has nothing to do with the condition of the oil. I had the car for 8 years and bought it with 200 000km. What I wrote is my personal experience and not some recycled internet info.

Best cure is grab wallet after oil change and get on the trans canada hwy once in a while for long drives to keep the contaminating gasses from polluting your oil by letting the engine blow them off during the long drives. Short around town rides heat the oil good enough to create the bad oil aspects but not blow the stuff off. It takes some lengthy riding to get the stuff to gas off.

Imoo With your background you know better than to compare a diesel engine to a gasoline. Diesels run into the millions of miles without rebuild. Diesel is a lubricant. Gasoline is a solvent. To compare the two is absurd.

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One of the Porsche approved oils. If you chose to run something else, to stray off the Porsche approved oils reservation, you can make your oil selection by walking into an auto parts store and tying on a blindfold at the oil aisle and using the first bottle of oil you grab. Your choice would be about as scientific and valid as any one's off the reservation oil recommendation.

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You are taking things out of context. My two posts are relative to each other and are related to the discussion. But to be fair, I never change the oil ahead of the manufacturer's recomended interval either.