996 C2 or C4. My wife is all concerned about traction.

I'm looking at purchasing a used 996, likely a 2002, and i think ive found the perfect c2. However, i do live in NJ, we get some snow up here, and I plan to have this car as a semi-daily driver. What i mean by semi daily driver is not commuting in it daily but will use it very often. So: how is this car if there is a bit of snow on the roads. I dont plan to take it out in blizzards, but am i going to be all over the place with the 2 wheel drive? I have my wife convinced to go ahead and get a 911, but now she's all worried about if it would be drivable in the snow. So i would love some opinions and info on experience on this topic.

Tell her she wont be the one driving it so what business is it of hers? Wow you really need to learn about women.

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Lots of cars get around just fine in snow or worse with 2 wheel drive. Remember it is not not the going that is the problem, it is the turning/stopping and all cars are equal in this regard. For the going in the case of the 911 it has a very large percentage of its weight over the rear wheels so it is not like driving some front engine/rear wheel drive vehicle in which the rear end floats on the snow rather than sinks in and bites. Turning and stopping are handled by proper tire selection and by the driver's ability to drive in marginal traction conditions. So, the biggest factor is the selection of tires. Do not scrimp on proper winter tires. None of that all season foolishness. The next biggest factor and maybe the first is the driver. The best snow tires, AWD, heck tank treads, will not save a driver who is not winter driving savvy.

Or,, a C4S would solve your issue.

My biggest concern wouldnt be the traction under acceleration but rather keeping the rear end from breaking loose and swapping ends. These cars can and will swap ends during a hydroplane/ice encounter. Im no expert, living in South Florida, but i would absolutley take Macster's advice and run a proper tire for winter conditions. If you think there could be ice on the roads my suggestion is to park the car.

i have a 2001 C2, no traction control or PSM.....in the winter I use blizzaks, and have no issues with snow at all....

I live in CT and have a 2002 C4 Cab that I use as a daily driver including in the snow. Below is my personal experience most of which is quite obvious but I'm going to say it anyway just in case you need to know the obvious. - This car is not built for driving in the snow but that doesn't mean that you can't drive it in the snow if you are smart about it. - First and foremost, more than 4 inches on the ground and the car becomes a snowplow because of the low front end clearance so once you hit 4" of snow, keep it in the garage. - The tires you have on the car now are most likely or at least should be high performance summer tires, which means that once the outside temperature drops below 50 degrees, your driving on rocks anyway so traction will drop dramatically whether there's snow on the ground or not. - These cars are heavy in the back-end and carry a lot of power from the rear wheels, even in the AWD version, so it can be easy to lose traction, especially in a turn when driving in snow so drive accordingly. AWD doesn't give you a license to drive like an idiot, it just gives you better traction when accelerating. With that said, my suggestion is as follows: - Buy the car that makes you happy. If the C4 makes you feel more comfortable than a C2, then get a C4. The price differential between a C4 and a C2 isn't that big, its when you jump up to a Cab that you see a big jump in price but either way, you want to be happy with what you have - i.e. no regrets. - Buy a 2nd set of rims and winter tires for the winter. Don't waste your money buying all season tires. For the summer, I run 18's but for the winter I have a set of 17" turbo twists with Nokian Winter Tires and the difference in traction in bad weather is remarkable. The 17" rims cut through the snow better than the 18's and the Nokian Tires blow away any other snow tire I have ever had, including Blizzaks. It is a tire made purely for cold and snowy conditions from either Norway or Sweden I think. I now use Nokian's on all three of my cars for the winter months. For the extra set of Rims, you can get imitation Turbo Twist's very inexpensively. As for the tires, the Nokian's may cost you $50 more per tire but that's nothing compared to the money you'd have to spend on your deductible when you smack the car into a curb or pole. If you need the name of a reputable place that can hook you up with imitation turbo twists and nokians, let me know and I'll put you in touch with the guys that I used. Good luck!

I live south of the Pocono's and here is my experience over the past five winters in a C2. I can't comment on the C4S yet because we really didn't have any snow to speak of last year. I do believe these cars are designed for year round use. The C2 - one of the best winter cars I have ever owned. I run proper "N" Spec winter tires. As others have mentioned, rear wheel drive and rear engine does the trick. In certain conditions you have to be as careful as you would in any car, including a four wheel drive. I actually drove the C2 on ice, not on purpose but that's the way it turned out. Had to be very careful lifting off the throttle as the rear end does want to point front, and keeping a huge distance from other cars and trucks. I would prefer to never ever do this again, but I was amazed at just how well the C2 managed these conditions. Also drove it to West Virginia for a funeral during February one year - ended up driving into a huge snow storm to a point where it was pretty much just me and a few trucks on the road. Real adrenilin pumper, but again, the car performed so well. I remember parking at the hotel and just staring at the car thinking "damn, I can't believe I made it here". Although I also have winter tires on the C4S - the C2 is my primary winter car. If the weather was so bad that I wouldn't or couldn't travel in the C2, odds are that I would also decide not to travel regardless of what kind of car was available. Take snow out of the equation and then I will say that a C4 is the better handling machine. My suggestion, just use the same common sense as you would driving in any hazardous weather condition in any vehichle and you will be fine. Hope it all works out for you.

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Also, in SFL not much snow to contend with but we do have plenty of rain. Using mine often as a DD I find that it take a "lot" to swap ends. Trust me I know I try to evey turn I take, LOL.

I have never run into someone who could not get around just fine in any Porsche witout good snow tires. Sure AWD is best (in any car), but that does not mean with good snows you will not be able to get around fine. Please give me a call if I can help.

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My friend, you should come to the track some time. You will see that's swapping ends is easier than you think. ERME has an event next weekend at Homestead. Just saying

As mentioned, 4 purpose built snow tires are needed. Don't skimp. Put them on around Dec 1 and take them off around easter. the bigger challenge will be ground clearance. As long as the snow doesn't build up under the car and leave it highsided, you will be fine. If you are already comfortable with driving in snow, you and the car will be fine. fwiw, on a few occasions I had to drive my '78 911, on all season tires, in slick wintry conditions. The car was FINE. I was more nervous about getting hit by an idiot thinking they were impervious in their AWD SUV.

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The C4 series using the VC, Viscous Coupling, is mostly NON-FUNCTIONAL for your purposes, actually, for amost any purposes. In most cases TC or stability control will have acted to prevent wheelspin/slip skidding, plowing, etc, long before you could have gained any real functionality from the VC. While the newer 997's with the electromagnetically controlled front drive clutch is a stellar improvement over the VC type, it also could use a simple DIY improvement. A switch to have it fully engaged whenever the driver KNOWS that conditions warrant same. The fly in that ointment is that the clutch must NEVER be engaged in this manner on any tractive, intermittenty tractive surface, nor above ~20MPH.

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"Snow" tires are TOTALLY worthless unless the surface is loose enough for the tread to sink into, penetrate slightly. On packed snow or ice you will be much better off with standard summer tires with more tread surface area for the surface contact patch. My Porsche doesn't go out in that kind of weather, my F/awd RX300 does. The RX300 runs all year 'round on the most comfortably riding, quietest summer times I can fit, tire chains at the ready...always.

My "two Cents", living here in Denver, is to do what most of us Porsche Pushers do, buy yourself a 4WD or AWD and park the Porsche. It's just not worth the worry, even if you have taken and passed the Winter Porsche Driving Experience in Sweden or Siberia. The problems come from the other drivers that have no clue about winter driving. A rear ender will absolutely ruin your day,month, year, and your Porsche will never have the same value when the Carfax reads "accident repair!"

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Wrong. The compound of a winter tire allows it to stay pliable in very cold conditions. This is so the tire can still grip the road when frozen. The added siping of the tires allows them to grip as well. Summer only tires have larger tread blocks for summer grip, but that does little for grabbing and pulling in the snow. If you were to take a new summer-only tire out on a 10 degree morning and do the same thing with them as a snow tire, you'll soon see that snow tires will run circles around them for grip. This is indisputable not only within the tire industry, but also those here who know the difference between the two.

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...probably from people trying to use summer-only tires.

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I don't think so. Go out in ice or snow in that C4S with your standard high-performance summer tires and you will quickly find yourself with damage. AWD is not a cure-all, a purpose made snow/winter tire is.

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What tires do you run? I doubt it's a "Summer" tire. More likely some kind of all-season that performs OK and gives that cushy ride, but a set of real "summer" tires and a set of real "winter" tires would improve the car in terms of handling during the summer and everything during the winter.

My car is a DD with Michelin Super Sports in the Summer and Pirelli Snosport 240's. The correct tires are key no matter what you drive. My C4 has saved my butt more times than I care to say. I really prefer the 4 over the 2. With PSM (standard on a C4 it tells you when you are doing the wrong inputs. The more you drive the less the PSM comes on = faster in Summer and Snow. Do I drive like a maniac..nope. But it sure is nice to know how your car reacts in special circumstances.

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I know this to be untrue because I lived it. One year I was lazy in switching over to the snows, still had the summers on after Turkey day. We got a flash freeze after rain one night, I attempted to drive home from NYC where it's often few degrees warmer -- no ice. What a mistake. Once I was into colder weather I could barely keep the car on the road. I had to dump it until the temps came back up the next day. Promptly switched over to the the snows on my winter wheel set, no problems at all when the temps dropped again. Wet weather performance also magnifies the cold weather issue of useless summer tires. To the OP, I also don't at all care for all season tires on performance cars. Car feels numb in summer, useless if you get caught out with heavy snow. Probably fine in a Corolla.

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Ask yourself....What's the effectiveness of ABS for stopping AND stearing on an ice rink with winter tires vs summer tires...?

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Bridgestone Turanzas. My RX tire chains work in ALL wintertime conditions whereas wintertime tires only function with a "soft", penetrable surface.

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They already have. Take a look. Please show us a comparison with your instrumented testing. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=167 "...To find out what sort of handling and traction the newest and best Studless Ice & Snow tires deliver, the Tire Rack team conducted a Real World Road Ride and Ice Rink Drive. We compared the new Michelin X-Ice Xi3 with the Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice WRT and two of the best already available in the category -- the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 and Continental ExtremeWinterContact. Our evaluation used 2012 BMW F30 328i sedans fitted with new, full tread depth 215/60R16 tires mounted on 16x7.5 wheels..."

C2 in snow? No problems what so ever

Remember, a C4, at most can only give 30-40% of power to the front wheels (to make it behave like a rear-wheel drive car) - so it's not quite as "4WD" as a jeep. As other people have said, a C2 on winter tires will be much better than a C4 on all-season. There is no substitute for good winter tires. I went through the same thought process when I got my car - and I did get a C4, but if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have made that a deal breaker. One important thing to remember is that the C4 came standard with PSM - which can offer a certain amount of "piece of mind".

Following Van's last post, the PSM on my car certainly helps out in slippery wintery conditions. Recent example from last week I was going round eg suburban 15mph 90 degree corners it is natural to rlease power, engine brake and the back will come around if not being careful, PSM helps even here! I see it flicker and hear it brake outside corners etc. I have Pirelli Snowsport 240's which is a true winter tire. Turning off PSM typically means a little sloppiness and backwards u go BTW it is 20" snow and 10F here.

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this is spot on - but 100% the reason to get a C2 over C4 having a car that will bite you if not driven right is better than a car that is saving your bacon all the time - but you have to learn what that means and where the edge is, how to control it, and how to drive it put on a new set of good snow tires and a C2 is a point and shoot car --- absolutely predictable and controllable with some skills - and a real hoot to drive plus in the summer, its more agile / lighter

Watch this Vid of 2 wheel drive Porsche in snow. You Tube

+1. I'm from Boulder, and when it's slick or snowy, the Porsche stays safely in the garage, and the F150 4x4 comes out.

For anyone interested, we have a great video section that shows firsthand many of the differences snow tires have over all-season and summer tires. There is a winter only tab, and yes there are several ice skating rink tests. This one is my favorite. See firsthand how well a sports car (Maserati on stock Pirelli P-Zeros) does against the same car with Pirelli SottoZero winter tires. The summer-equipped car can't get out of it's own way and would have been downright dangerous on the road. It was probably 10 degrees that day.

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Vs SUMMER TIRES....???

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Yes, PSM yields quite a bit of piece of mind, but at the same time TC aspect prevents any "solidifying" of the VC fluid.

Mr. West......Its funny you are debating why winter tires are worthless in the winter......step back and think about it for second. You will realize how foolish this is.

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17 seconds into your favorite says EVERYTHING. Not one test of summer tires vs winter specialty tires.

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+996! cant believe that this was posted on an enthusiasts forum. the general comment section of the local newspaper...sure.

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I'm by no means saying worthless, just not an wholly adequate solution for commonplace wintertime road conditions, packed snow surface, frozen snow surface, ICE surface. In my case if conditions warrant the need/use of wintertime specialty tires you'll find the chains on my F/awd RX300.

Extended use of PSM's TC mode is simply a substitute for the driver not knowing how to most carefully feather the throttle right up to the "cusp" of traction loss or even knowing which gear to be in upon start out. TC activation can be valued warning/notice to the driver of road conditions of which he may not be aware. Beyond that point it is best turned OFF.

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Your original quote back on page 1 was this: Originally Posted by wwest View Post " "Snow" tires are TOTALLY worthless unless the surface is loose enough for the tread to sink into, penetrate slightly. On packed snow or ice you will be much better off with standard summer tires with more tread surface area for the surface contact patch." The word "totally" being capitalized was YOUR emphasis. So are they "totally worthless" or are they "by no means worthless"? Can't have it both way. Then you said that if there is packed snow or ice that a summer tire is better than a winter tire. You should see if you can catch a few rides with people on different kinds of tires, it might be interesting. In the meantime I will need to look out for your cars on the highways.... Tire chains overall are a wholly inadequate solution and really do NOTHING on for example a thin layer of ice over blacktop. Never mind your significantly reduced speed limit relative to others on the highway with properly equipped vehicles. On packed snow in slow-speed conditions they are maybe equal to a good set of snow tires. And All-Season tires are NOT to be considered the same as Snow/Winter tires or Summer tires.. Your Bridgestone Turanza's are an All-Season, i.e. they compromise in every season. A Pirelli P-Zero Rosso is a Summer Tire, a Bridgestone Blizzak is a Winter/Snow tire. Any tire shop can explain and demonstrate the differences.

wwest!!! Cut the crap!!

I'm also a Colorado driver. I drive my C4S all year long, the only exception being snow deeper than 4-inches. I run summer tires on my car in warm weather, and I run winter tires on my car in Porsche recommended sizes in the winter. Typically, I aim for October 15th as the day to put the winter tires on, and May 15th as the day to put the summer tires on. From personal experience, I can tell you that tires determine whether you can drive in snowy or icy conditions above all else. AWD or 4WD helps, but tires are really what you should seriously consider for winter driving. A C2 with winter tires will do well in winter conditions. A C4 or C4S will be horrible in winter conditions with summer tires. I've been caught out in the snow once before with my Pirelli P-Zeros on, and it was scary. With proper winter tires, my C4S is fantastic in the snow. If you want a C2, then buy a C2. Put winter tires on it in the winter and you'll be fine.

I live in Upstate New York and I drive my C2 Cab all year as my daily driver. I put winter tires on and it goes just fine.

While I personally find it as sacrilege to drive a Porsche in the snow, go for the C4 Cab because it has the big butt. And who doesn't like the big butt?

http://www.porsche.com/canada-pde/en...ving/overview/

we just watched this episode today

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Actually the C4 cab doesn't have a big butt. It's the same butt as the C2 or the C2 cab. The C4S cab has the big butt, but it was only produced in 2004. The things that make a Porsche a wonderful driver on dry roads make it a wonderful driver in the snow. Great handling... great brakes... low center of gravity... all these things are good in snow. If you aren't driving your Porsche in the snow, then you're missing out on a great experience. It's your choice, or course, but you're missing out on a great drive...

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http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index...=31&tab=winter Really what am I missing?? "This video demonstrates the differences experienced in real world winter driving between a Maserati GranTurismo S fitted with Original Equipment Pirelli P Zero summer performance tires and one fitted with Pirelli Sottozero performance winter / snow tires. A jaw-dropping difference in stopping distances is a video highlight."??

I've driven Porsches in the snow since around 1970. Great cars on snow and ice with the weight over the rear wheels. PSM helps on the newer cars. Since the summer tires have become more extreme in their compounds, I run 18's in the summer and 17's with snows when the weather channel is predicting regular temps in the 30's or snow. That said, we got caught in an unexpected snow storm. My wife parked her FWD car with all season tires while the 996 did great (passing many stranded cars) on its summer tires. As others have said, snow depth is the biggest issue. Other than that, be ready for increased wear to the front paint from road sand & gravel. AWD is nice but not necessary. I've never gotten stuck or wished my 996 was an AWD.

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The post says, paraphased: TOTALLY WORTHLESS..... EXCEPT IN SPECIFIC CONDITIONS..... Turanza ER30, ER33, and ER300.

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Methinks you mean C4"S"...

In regards to wwest

All I have to add is this...if your wife is concerned about traction, don't buy silk sheets. Pic please!

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Too late to spin your words. Dedicated winter tires are far superior in cold weather. That means snow / ice / freezing rain / sleet regardless of packed snow or loose.

Let's put it another way... If I were limited to a 911 as a DD throughout the winter it would most certainly be a C4, likely a new one with the electromagnetic clutch and a DIY modification to "lock" the front drive fully if the need arose. But the following applies C2 or C4. I would NEVER put tire chains on any Porsche other than the Cayenne. Studded tires on all four corners, the new LEGAL studs. That would undoubtedly also mean wintertime specialty tires all around.