26 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHIMS FACTORY UPGRADES
Reported or suspected cause
less than accurate
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
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Reported cause
Mid year 2000 some engines began using the single row bearing, 2000 model year cars can be either single or dual row, there is no rhyme or reason to these and directives that state what the engine is equipped with have proven to be less than accurate.
Leading evidence: 'less than accurate' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'less than accurate' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Install 997 water pump in my 996' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I changed my IMS/RMS and water pump as Jake recommended and RAC Performance installed the 997 water pump in my 996.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
We installed the first one for a customer last week.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
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0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
When I fitted the LN IMS upgrade a couple of years ago, it was found to be fitted with the (early) dual row bearing.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I changed my IMS/RMS and water pump as Jake recommended and RAC Performance installed the 997 water pump in my 996.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
We have an engine at the shop now that was built by a competitor that had to come to us, they charged the guy 16K and never even replaced the water pump, and guess what?
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Suggestion
I've read elsewhere in the past that 997 water pumps have metal impeller blades and can be used in the 996 engine which had composite/plastic impeller blades, one of the on-line store Autohausaz has p/n 99610601153 from Pierburg OEM using 2000-2004 996 as the car, using the 2005-2008 997 yielded p/n 997-106-011-05-M100 Porsche OEM or much less expensive 997-106-011-05-M59 from Laso:
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
less than accurate
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
Mid year 2000 some engines began using the single row bearing, 2000 model year cars can be either single or dual row, there is no rhyme or reason to these and directives that state what the engine is equipped with have proven to be less than accurate.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
26 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261027T171335Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Does anybody know the exact chronology of the various IMS Bearing upgrades made by Porsche? I believe there were three.
I am curious as to the dates of these production changes.
Also, is an 05 M96 engine, in effect , a Gen I 997 ?
99 duel row bearing
2000 - 2001 some built with duel row and some with single row bearing
2002 - 2005 single row bearing
2006 - 2008 larger single row bearing
97-early 2000= Factory Dual Row
Mid year 2000 some engines began using the single row bearing, 2000 model year cars can be either single or dual row, there is no rhyme or reason to these and directives that state what the engine is equipped with have proven to be less than accurate. Until a visual inspection of the flange is carried out there is no way to determine which bearing is installed.
Post 2001-early 2005= Factory single row with the standard outside diameter. These bearings were not an upgrade at all and they have the highest instances of failure with the most radical damage since the bearing is 1/2 as large as the earlier dual row bearing.
2005 Model year- Can be either the standard single row bearing or the later, larger diameter "upgraded" bearing. Like model year 2000 these cars require a visual inspection to determine which bearing is installed.
Late 2005- end of M97 production= The "upgraded" bearing that is generally referenced. These are the bearings that can't be extracted.
In reality there was only a single upgrade, the larger bearing applied in 2006. These also fail and I have one at the shop now that beings to a client who has experienced two failures in the same car.
The 97-99 dual row bearings are the most robust. All generations of the bearing fail, 01-early 05 are
by far the worst.
I honestly have no idea.. We receive calls from all over the world but over te past year I have been out o the office and in my lab more finishing the IMS Guardian and the new IMSG Jr. as of late.. The new DFI engine developments have also taken a lot of my time.
I will say that the current leading failure we are seeing is cracked heads and intermix.
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The system is designed for the 2005-2008 cars as the current IMSG cannot be applied to these cars due to the drastic differences in the dash interface.
We installed the first one for a customer last week. Details concerning cost and availability will be released in the next newsletter.. We are not taking pre-orders like we did with the standard IMSG, we won't release anything or receive orders until we have 500 units in stock and ready to ship.
All testing is complete and we are now building units in anticipation of an April release date.
Thanks for the info, randy and jake.
My C4S with large diameter bearing (late 05) is asleep, awaiting installation of the IMSG I received last month.
I expect this gizmo will became a personal 'sleep aid'.
Joe
Is there anything that can be done preemptively to ward off a cracked head failure..?
I'd like to buy a 996 but there seems to still be unresolved issues.
Interesting chronology - according to the build date on my chassis, my Boxster S 3.2 engine was manufactured in late 2000 and installed in January 2001. When I fitted the LN IMS upgrade a couple of years ago, it was found to be fitted with the (early) dual row bearing.
So nothing is in concrete......
I have the 99 C2 with no issues.. what do you have?
The 97-99 dual row bearings are the most robust. All generations of the bearing fail, 01-early 05 are
by far the worst.
That statement coming from Flat 6 Innovations to me is good news. No engine issues with mine either and its done 53,000 plus.
There are a few of us on here with the 99 996 models.
The cracked cylinder heads mentioned is probably down to sustained 7000 rpms or dropping back into 3rd instead of 5th gear during top speed and cranking the *** out of the engine and gearbox or some ******* revving the hell out of a cold engine as it stands on the driveway to impress his friends. I see it on youtube. I have never molly coddle my engine. I drive the hell out of it year round daily if the weather is right. Its a clear day today and I can't wait to get out on the roads for a blast.
Cracked heads are from a head design or material flaw issue. Millions of cars get the **** beat out of them everyday without any of these odd issues.
Really sucks these are even issues on such an expensive "well engineered" vehicle.
You can proactively replace the water pump (every 4-5 years) and install a low temp thermostat to keep the temps more in line. LN makes a low temp stat and you can pickup an OEM water pump at a bunch of online porsche parts places.
The best way to ward off cracked heads is to change the water pump every 3 years and if it is found to have a missing impeller blade flush the entire system! The plastic impeller blades are exposed to coolant all the time, so driving the car 50 miles in 3 years is just as hard as 50K in 3 years
We have an engine at the shop now that was built by a competitor that had to come to us, they charged the guy 16K and never even replaced the water pump, and guess what? It has a broken impeller blade.. To make it worse, the engine is boosted and was built with 12.5:1 big bore JE pistons and LN cylinders.
Risk a 16K engine on a 450.00 water pump.. thats the definition of "short cut".
Hah, I can think of a lot more terms than "short cut", but I might get banned for a while, LOL.
Reminds me of a guy over on 6speed that said he was going to rebuild from the bottom up for $5-6k. Snicker snicker.
(Apology in advance for the OT question, but hopefully it can help confirm some useful information)
I've read elsewhere in the past that 997 water pumps have metal impeller blades and can be used in the 996 engine which had composite/plastic impeller blades, one of the on-line store Autohausaz has p/n 99610601153 from Pierburg OEM using 2000-2004 996 as the car, using the 2005-2008 997 yielded p/n 997-106-011-05-M100 Porsche OEM or much less expensive 997-106-011-05-M59 from Laso:
- Can the 997 water pumps be safely used on 996 engines?
- Is it safe to assume the 2005-2008 water pump will have the metal impeller blades and will fit the 996 engine from 1999 to 2004?
- Is the Laso version reliable for the long run?
TIA
metal impellers kill crankcases if you ever lose a water pump bearing. The steel impeller chews into the case and you'll never build coolant pressure ever again.
All the pumps are pretty much equal and none should be trusted for "the long run" IMHO.
Water pump impellers can also spin on the shafts and slide up and down and contact the crankcase, if that happens with plastic impellers you are out a water pump and maybe a cracked head if you don't catch it.. With a metal impeller you are out a complete crankcase.. I have been working on a "fix" for this for a while but the IMSG has taken all my time.. With it out of the way maybe I can finish what I started on the water pump development.
That said it absolutely blows me away when people fight to avoid elective, preventive maintenance on these engines.. I never experienced this with aircooled Porsche drivers who generally seek out things that need to be maintained with their cars.
I bought a LASO H20 pump. It leaked at the shaft at only 200 miles.
Traded it in for credit towards a genuine Porsche pump, which is still perfect after 2000 miles.
