13 Days After

Ok, I bought my car on March 1. Yesterday, there was a 4" pool of oil under the engine, and she's in the shop. Guess what's busted? RMS... '03, 8k miles, after 12 days I had put on nearly 900 more miles (yes, that's 10% of the total mileage in 12 days). PPI (from Porsche dealer) did not indicate any problems. Ouch. Using an independent repair shop based on recommendations, and he's saying $900 for labor, ~$220 for parts. He's also saying that the clutch MAY be leaking, which they won't know til they get in there, and if so, that's another $1700 in parts (but the labor doesn't really change). Does this all seem reasonable to you guys? - price on RMS repair - price on clutch repair - possibility of RMS type problems also requiring clutch repairs - PPI showing no problems and 13 days later RMS blowout

i'm assuming 4/50 warranty expired?

Yeah, in January. And no CPO, as I bought private party.

MHO 1. yes 2. no, clutch should be 200-400 3. yes 4. possibly, car has probably sat too long, then driven hard

unfortunately, seems to be the prevailing accepted wisdom. is this just p-cars and RMS-related? cuz i don't hear of these issues with other low-mileage makes.

If you have not seen a discussion of this already, you will want to make sure your indy is using the current RMS part (it has a 997 part number) and the specail tool used to insert it. The newest part seems to be working much better than prior versions. The part has been out for a while now, so the indy is probably all over it, but it is probably worth a call.

Geez, I have. The degree of severity varies, but there are plenty of garage queens of all makes that seem to suffer for being left idle. Seals are the usual culprit. I'll never forget my BMW mechanic telling me that the cars he saw the least, the ones that were trouble free, were the ones that were driven hard and often.

If it were my car I'd take it to a dealer. That way you are assured you will get the latest seal (I believe Porsche is on version 5 now) and the new "tool" they use to properly seat the seal. Additionally, as other have mentioned have them check the cluch. If it is not under warranty make sure you get their price in advance.

Yeah - people seem to think that if they don't drive their car much, it'll last longer. I'd much, much rather have a 4 yr old car with 40,000miles on it than one with 10,000. Not only would it cost less, but it most likely will be running better. This isn't a myth, either. Cars need to be driven.

exp. in Jan? did you try to talk to p-car dealer to see the possible getting of some help from PCNA?

Have the dealer do the RMS, so you get a 2-year parts warranty on the repair!

agree with others here, take it to the dealer and try to have them give you a "good will" discount (be adamant and a bit pissed), especially if the new-car warranty expired in January and if they think you're a loyal, repeat customer.

I'm just stunned that it did not show up in the PPI ... A 4" pool is a lot of oil and does not develop overnight. There must have been some smearing / dripping that went unnoticed. I would go back to the dealer with the PPI in hand and ask them how they missed it. It could be that the purposely missed it, trying to make $1200 off you 13 days later. Fight the a*holes!

+1

RMS for me: parts: $17.06. Labor $509.40 so I would say charging $220 for a $17 part is a bit steep, steep on the labor as well. k

+1 on dealer. They're doing it all day long and have the latest tools and 2yr warranty. Also, they will measure the crankshaft/case gap at 4 points and see if an engine replacement is needed (I hope not of course). Just noticed your're in San Diego. You may want to try Pioneer Centres and ask for Daniel (service advisor). Both my friend and I have our RMS done there with the latest seal and no problem after 9k miles (knock on wood). Also, you can get best deal on clutch kits from Sunset Porsche. Good luck. - Ahsai

Sorry to see the problem come up so fast - I'm sure its the non-driven Vs driven scenario. Who did you go to in SD as an Indy? Was it AGA?

[QUOTE=discoganya]I'm just stunned that it did not show up in the PPI ... A 4" pool is a lot of oil and does not develop overnight. There must have been some smearing / dripping that went unnoticed. [QUOTE] Not sure what's hard to understand. The seal didn't leak, he drove it 900 miles, and then it did leak. I had almost exactly the same situation when I purchased my car a couple of years ago. Get it fixed and move on with life.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll try to answer the various questions without working too hard to quote it all... The indy I'm going to is highly recommended, hopefully I'm not making a bad choice. Dieter's, downtown San Diego, lead mechanic is also a major player in the PCA San Diego group (he's the head of the technical inspections team, I think?), and a multi-year autocross class champion (ie, he's an enthusiast and a mechanic). I got a referral to him from my Audi independent mechanic, from my buddy who is active in the PCA, and two other Porsche owners who are active in PCA. I spoke with this mechanic 4 times during my search, always gave me his time and seemed knowledgeable. I had a friend look up the clutch kit on Pelican (I was driving all day, burned a lot of cell phone battery!), and the price there for the kit was around $600. So I think the $200-300 price is a bit off. Or perhaps we are speaking about apples and oranges? I spoke with the mechanic today after the owner gave me the initial quote I listed in the beginning. He explained that the owner was giving me worst case, which is they open it up, the clutch needs to be replaced due to leaks, and the flywheel has been abused and needs to be replaced. He quoted $605 for the clutch, which is spot on with Pelican, so that's fine. He says unless one of the previous owners was a crazy abusive driver, or had a 16-year-old son who abused the car, unlikely to need a flywheel, and he even doubts the clutch is damaged. I'll know more tomorrow, but the mechanic is predicting just the RMS at $900 labor plus $200 parts. Not sure what the parts are, but I will certainly be asking and looking those up as well. The mechanic also gave me more info on the wheels, and advised me to not worry. The rubbing is only occurring under extreme conditions, and the only damage he expects is to the sidewall of the tire, not to the car. He says the contact is only occurring when I push it hard enough to flex the sidewalls, and that I should just keep an eye on it. The pool of oil was literally overnight. Not one drop until Monday morning, and Monday morning was a nice big puddle. I didn't see it, but got a call from the wife about an hour after I got to work. I went out to the car to look, and it was just about to drop the first drop, so it was coming out at about 1 drop per hour. Mechanic says that as they were looking at it, the leak got worse fast. After several attempts by dealers to screw me, I'm pretty gun-shy of getting near their commission-driven money-grubbing behaviors. Perhaps my experiences with Audi and Subaru dealers doesn't translate to Porsche dealers, but I didn't have any positive references for Pioneer, but I did for Dieter's. Also, Pioneer's pricing on cars is absurd, so I was a bit concerned. Had I been closer to Hoehn I probably would have given them a run, since their car pricing at least seems reasonable. I'd love to think I'd get some satisfaction by making a run at Porsche because of the car being so close to warranty, but like someone else said, I just need it fixed so i can move on. This is my daily driver, and the sooner I get out of this godforsaken rental the better. I am very disappointed in the PPI not identifying a few things, but I can also see how it happens. The car was probably not leaking until I blew through the seal. The previous owners probably never pushed the car hard enough to rub the sidewalls. And the lack of skidplate is not so much a defect/problem as a good idea to add. Anyway, I'm probably getting out of this for around $1500. Pretty expensive oil change, but not the end of the world.

First Sorry, I would go to the Porsche dealer at lest you get a 2 year warranty on your new RMS and would also replace your IMS while in there. As far as the clutch goes would replace no matter what since in reality not much additional labor at that point. IMHO

If you do replace the clutch, don't forget to ensure that you're receiving the newest design of the clutch actuator lever/fork. I can't recall when they swapped the design, but it's worth asking for it to be safe.

That is really the way to go Lots of horror stories at some dealers here in the Bay Area too.

Well, I got her back, and it sure is nice to have her again! Mechanic charged me $1130 total, including installing a skid plate (~$119 part plus install), oil change (which really is just the oil filters and such, given the RMS work) and the RMS replacement. The RMS alone came in around $1000 total. It's hard to be happy about spending $1130 on repairs, but it's a good price.

Can you expound on the tire sidewall issue? Are you speaking of the outside or the inside of the side walls. Also, where on the sidewalls top(near the tread) middle or bottom (near the rim lip). What kind of tires are on the car?

You've done good.

The car has: Front wheels: 19x8 with 57 offset, 235/35-19 P-zero tires Rear wheels: 19x11 with 67 offset, 295/30-19 P-zero tires The front tires are rubbing in a minor and cosmetic way in the front of the wheel well during hard turning (ie, when parking). The rear tires are rubbing on a control arm on the sidewall on the inside, only when the car is driven hard into turns or when backing up under heavy turn (ie, when backing into a parking spot). Mechanic is the head of the PCA-San Diego chapter technical inspections team, and states that the rubbing only occurs when I push hard enough to flex the sidewalls, and that the risk is that the tires will be damaged over time, depending on how often I push it. He thinks for my daily driving, performance driving school, and even the occasional auto-cross, it will be fine until the tires are ready to be replaced, but I should change to 10" wide wheels before buying new tires. I am not certain exactly where the sidewall contact is, I was not able to get to the shop while the car was still up on the rack, and I haven't been able to squeeze under and see it myself. I'm planning to get a look at it this weekend. Mechanic says I should be getting: Front wheels: 18x8 with 52 offset, 225/40-18 tires Rear wheels: 18x10 with 65 offset, 285/30-18 tires Unless I find a great trade offer before then, I'll probably buy some replica 18" 5-spoke Carrera lightweights when I get to the point of needing tires. That probably won't be for at least a year, maybe 2, as the P-zeros I have on have barely 1,000 miles on them.

Your P-Zero rear tires will be toast in another 9,000 - 10,0000 miles.

For the last 8 years or so, I've averaged 7,000 miles per year. So, I'll probably get at least another year, maybe a bit more...