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YOUR RESEARCHWhy do early 996's sell so low?
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Adjust inflation, 996s were probably more affordable than 993s were
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When adjusted for inflation, 996s were probably more affordable than 993s were when they were new.
Leading evidence: 'Adjust inflation, 996s were probably more affordable than 993s were' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust inflation, 996s were probably more affordable than 993s were' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Two months ago I saw a silver '99 996 with 16,250 original miles, a new clutch and replaced RMS.
Repair of cylinder heads and the like by individual dealers
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They are currently not allowing repair of cylinder heads and the like by individual dealers.
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I'm determined to find one with a replaced engine, and LSD would be nice.
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It is all relative, I would not repair a broken headlight switch, and I don't suppose you'd replace an entire fuse block when you have one blown fuse, so obviously there's a balance.
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It is all relative, I would not repair a broken headlight switch, and I don't suppose you'd replace an entire fuse block when you have one blown fuse, so obviously there's a balance.
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Why is it that the value of the 99-2000 996's have dropped so much? Between here and ebay it seems like you can get a 996 for less than a similar mileage 993. Were there a ton of problems with the first of the water cooled's?
Thanks!
They have gone down in value just like other cars, I don't think any more or less really. Look at SUV's, and other "luxury" types of cars. 997's are losing value as well. But the 996 is getting old and is reaching its low point for resale. It should start to flatten out soon, especially the early model years. It's also the least popular 911 model of our generation for wholly subjective reasons. Because of that it is the best sports car bargain in the world. It's a great car to own as long as you don't care what some other Porsche snobs think. Most here don't.
The 993's hold their value for reasons unimportant to me but others find them very desirable.
I look at it like this: It's not worth less if you are not selling it! My 2000 is still a former $75k Porsche 911, even if it sells for what a 924 sells for! It goes fast, it looks great, and it's the only Porsche I plan on owning for the next few years!
Have you watched the news?? seen the economy lately??? seriously!
My cars devalued, my house is devalued..my savings are devalued..
see a trend?? heh
Welcome to Rennlist!
The 993's ain't fetching what they used to either, they are the last of the Aircooled so the value has held, not to mention they are excellent cars.
Sorry guys, wasn't trying to insult anyone. A 996 has been my dream car since '99 when my dad had one, and now I am getting to the point where I could own my own. I was just worried that there were some underlying issues with the early water cooled cars (sort of like when VW/Audi comes out with a new motor).
There are a number of legit reasons why prices are dropping.
First and foremost, the economic situation, as you stated, is causing a lot of commodities to devalue.
The oldest 996s are now just over 10 years old. Right at the "in between" age. Too old to be fresh and new and too young to be a classic.
Porsche sold a lot more 996s than 993. I don't know the figures, but it is the "supply and demand" principle.
993s were the last air cooled 911, so it marked an end of an era and to some, that made them "keepers."
When adjusted for inflation, 996s were probably more affordable than 993s were when they were new.
The 996 is the first generation of the water cooled 911 and the second generation, the 997 had a lot of improvements/enhancements versus the 996.
The "face lift" 997 has just come out (2009 models). These have more improvements/enhancements versus the 997s pre-face lift models ('05 -'08) than the 996 face lift ('02 - '04) had over the 996 pre-face lift models ('99 - '01).
The early 997 models have also seen a pretty dramatic drop in prices. Some '05 997 are available in the mid $40K and 997 S models are available in the upper $40's to lower $50's.
So there is one man's answer to your question.
The question was early vs late 996 right? That has nothing to do with 997s and 993s. Early 996 cars are 20 hp less, but that is somewhat misleading, the real under-the-curve performance is noticeably different. There is also a noticeable price difference between 2001 and 2002 996's.
The late 996's are also much stiffer than the early 996's. If you don't believe me pull up the rear seat on both and see what's different.
These are big differences on the track -- on the street there are some minor interior changes (I don't think the early cars have a glovebox or cup holders). On the street I wouldn't care about the performance differences, they are insignificant on the street.
There may be some truth to all the above stated reasons, but lets get to the bottom line here............ the addition of the cup holder in the 2001 model sent the value thru the roof. Come on, be honest.
I think its cool because its stilll the same car but with more room in your wallet for mods!(if your in the market for one)
If your not well. As someone said, "the value of houses droped, value of cars droped", **** even the value of my wife droped too! **** sucks.
The values on MK II cars have dropped significantly too. I think it is excellent, because I got a great deal on one!
I didn't buy mine to sell it or to attempt to maintain resale, I bought it to drive. I don't care about values.
I worked on mine for 12 hours today... wash, clay bar, Scratch X treatment, deep polish, wax. It looks fantastic. People that realize that I recently bought the car are frequently surprised when I tell them that it's used. The average person can't tell the difference between a 996 and a 997. I'm just happy to be able to afford such a great car and drive it every day.
Great summary. The only thing that I would add is that the 996 was the first 911 to be built utilyzing the cost reduction principles recommended by the Japanese auto consultants who were hired by Porsche. Porsche was pretty much a basket case in the mid 90s, and the profit margin on the 993 was small. Then along came the 986 and 996 and Porsche was on the road to prosperity. So some Porsche tradionalists look at the 996 as inferior to the much more expensive to produce 993.
Bottom line is that without the Boxster and 996, there probably wouldn't be a Porsche product line today. If Porsche was barely treading water in the prosperous 90s, they would surely be in deep trouble today without their shift in production efficiencies.
Yes, that is at least one of the reasons. There are some technical issues with the M96 which cause a lot of panic when people hear about "replacement engine."
awe...... where the %&@# are the pics !!!
Early 996 values are low because if you drive the cars they burst into flames like Pintos being hit from the rear while accelerating at full speed like an Audi 5000s then roll over like the early ATV 3 wheelers. Simply put they are too dangerous for the average driver and plagued with problems far too complicated to comprehend
(ps mine has almost 110 k miles on it)
Actually I'm wondering where the smoking deals are. I'm back in the market for a Porsche (my third) and I've decided on a 1999 because they're (slightly) lighter and because they have a throttle cable (call me old fashioned). My plan is to slowly transform it into a street/track car. Slow enough that my wife won't notice it happening.
I'm determined to find one with a replaced engine, and LSD would be nice. So far I've found *one* that meets my specifications and it's not as cheap as I'd like it to be.
I am also unable to find a single MkII carfor less than $30K....I find this unusual given the economy and all.
shhh. Don't tell anyone. I don't think a day goes past someone does not comment on my car, or make some reference to the price. Keep it in good condition (and with a great polish) and most will think it is new. To me that is the beauty of a Porsche 911. I really like all the body styles from intro. Some a little better than others, but nothing like the radical changes most US cars go through.
Well said. I agree this sounds kinda shallow, but if the person is not in the market for a 996 most people are going to think its expensive. I think it also has to do with class. The 996 is not much different in looks than the 997. You could get super detailed but majority the headlights and the sharp edges on the taillamps. Not many people out side of a european enthusiast would ever even know the difference. Its a damn sexy car too, and will still pull major xoxo in alot of places. Its very similar to the 98-05 GS lexus's. They still look really new and have xenons but some are down into eights now.
No comment
Sheet!@ I just noticed dennis damn near said the same thing I just said. I guess im preaching to the quire now.
Jon do you have any pics of your car for me to drool over? I have had a thing for red lately. Your avatar is very seducing
Let's play a game. Send me info on the lowest price MK I 996 you can find. I am looking for one right now.
How about a car with one of these mythical blown engines?
The winner of the game will win something. I'll figure out what the something is depending on how good the price is.
Two months ago I saw a silver '99 996 with 16,250 original miles, a new clutch and replaced RMS. Third owner, all papers - looked clean.
Talked him down to $23K but somebody just beat me to the sale after offering $24.5k
From the perspective of someone who recently decided to spend more on a 993 vs. a 996, this was my reasoning:
1. The 993 seemed like it was a friendlier do-it-yourself car as far as maintenance. I enjoy wrenching on my cars and I would not be intimidated opening up a 993 motor, the technology is pretty basic. I would be intimidated on the newer water cooled motors.
2. The interior on the 993 is simple and dated. That's a good thing in my book. The inside of a 993 has a lot in common from a look/feel to the early 911's. The 996 seems much more modern (I'm sure that's a good thing for others).
3. I prefer the exterior styling on the 993. Again, maybe a little dated, but I consider it a modern classic and one of the best looking 911's ever. Time will tell. The 996 is a great looking car also, but I really struggle with the headlights and flatter sides on the 996.
4. The performance difference was not that important thing to me. I could have gotten a 996 turbo for what I paid for my 99. Obviously, you get much more performance for your $ with a 996.
I don't think the 993 is better or worse than a 996, but a 993 was a better fit for me. If I was buying a dailey driver or track car, I might have gone a different route. I think the 996, especially the turbos are an unbelievablel deal right now (a much better bargain than the 993's).
I hope this post didn't come across as any kind of knock on the 996, but might provide some valid reasons why certain types of buyers lean toward the 993.
I've rebuilt quite a few engines of this design. Aluminum blocks that don't have individually replaceable cylinders have existed for quite some time...
If you're being serious, I'm curious why Grant thinks the 993 is easier for DIY maintenance. Not too many people have to rebuild an engine during ownership. Not sure why he is intimidated by a 996 motor, I personally find the 993 more complex.
I see a lot more DIY stuff out there for the 993 vs. 996. Maybe it's just because they've been around longer (and have had more issues over time), but it just seems there is a lot more self-help our there for the 993. I've also seen some info about Porsche putting in complete rebuilt engines in the 996 vs. making repairs when significant engine failures occur. Again, maybe this is just a change in the way Porsche does maintenance, but my perception is that the engines are more complex and less servicable by the home mechanic.
Another one of my beliefs is that the world is moving away from things that can be disassembled and fixed vs. thrown away and replaced. In general, the newer the car, the more you need to buy an entire assembly (maybe and engine or tranny) vs. a single broken part. I don't have any direct experience of this on a 993 vs. 996 to validate my opinon, but this is still my view of the world and makes me think the 993 is more friendly for DIY.
It seems to me that Porsche moved away from having the dealers "service" a motor with an internal problem, as most dealer techs are not trained, nor do they have the experience to properly take apart any engine. I would much rather have an engine that was repaired or rebuilt at the factory, as opposed to locally, alas Porsche is now allowing the disassembly of the M96 and the gearboxes locally btw. BMW seems to be employing this method from what I see locally here in NC as well. They are currently not allowing repair of cylinder heads and the like by individual dealers. I'm personally a fan of this method for the reasons listed above.
I think the move is to go to more modular designs for ease of manufacture and repair. It can be cheaper to replace sub assemblies than repair them. Ever price a "rebuildable" 993 motor? It is all relative, I would not repair a broken headlight switch, and I don't suppose you'd replace an entire fuse block when you have one blown fuse, so obviously there's a balance. Anyway, obviously you're entitled your opinion, fair enough.
