My 5 hour old C4S had to be towed back...

to the dealer. 30 miles north of town, 5 hours into my ownership, the shift linkage went out. Stuck in neutral. Flatbed towed me back after a 90 minute wait in the Texas sun. Just got home. ....I've read this happened here before, so I wasn't too surprised. Just sad. **Everyone yet to take delivery, get the dealer to check that damn linkage before you leave!! urb

recall on the horizon??

Urb is that a tip or manual that you got? Sorry to hear that and all. Regards. Mike

recall? Or maybe a call from Porsche to it's dealers to check the darn thing on arriving cars. 996FLT6, 6 speed. The stick just jammed, would not move. Stuck in neutral. Oh well, service opens at 7:30am tomorrow, hoping for a quick fix as it should be

Sorry about your car. What a way to spoil a magic day. You might use "something from the Porsche Boutique" and "JD Power form" in the same sentance and see what happens. M in C

hi u what rotten luck! the least they could do is give you a sterling 911 key ring or that neat porsche varsity jacket! let us know what happens <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Same problem posted a week ago C4S in UK! Topic: C4S broken down on 1st day... help please! jcs353 New User User # 7719 posted 06-03-2002 10:22 My new 996 C4S (manual) broke down yesterday and was towed home, just 4 hours/80 miles after it was delivered brand new. The gear lever is jammed in 1st gear, although no gear is actually engaged so the car is in neutral. So the car cannot be driven! Here in the UK we are having a 4-day holiday weekend due to the Queen's jubilee and Porsche centres do not re-open till Wednesday! Any thoughts/suggestions/advice would be much appreciated!! -------------------- 2002 996 Carrera 4S Basalt Black/Black Posts: 1 | From: Cambridge, United Kingdom | Registered: Jun 2002

Funny how the guy from the UK had this happen. Surely the trip from Germany to UK is less jarring than to the US. I thought it was the trip that rattled it loose. Maybe it isn't??

[quote]Originally posted by Mike in Chi: <strong>Sorry about your car. What a way to spoil a magic day. You might use "something from the Porsche Boutique" and "JD Power form" in the same sentance and see what happens. M in C</strong><hr></blockquote> What a bummer. Sorry to hear. Agree with Mike. I also told the guy from UK the same thing. I reccommend the statement you make to your dealer is that there is no way a properly pre-delivery inspected Porsche should fail within 5 hours of delivery. A Porsche leather jacket from the catalogue should mollify you just right, and retain your status as a satisfied customer.

Got a call. The dealer could not find the problem, he called Porsche who had no clue.... They are shipping me a new transmission from Atlanta today <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> Should be installed tomorrow if all goes well. wow...50 miles and a new tranny.

Sorry to hear about your dilemma Urbanski. Your problems coupled with the problems from the fellow in the UK are disconcerting as my new C4S delivery date is on the horizon. It sounds like I should go to the dealership to "observe" the PDI! Only a few more weeks of suffering for me. How dreadful to have your dreamcar delivered and fall prey to gremlins! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

The C4S owner from the UK was knighted. You should receive the Distinguished Service Cross for Patience!

I was in my Porsche garage in Zurich the other day to mount a new set of rear tires and I saw a brand new C4S getting a new tranny installed. I was in a hurry and did not have time to ask, but thought "what the heck...."

My C4s was delivered about 3.5 weeks ago. My clutch pedal disapeared on me on Saturday and stayed on the floor while i was in fourth gear. It came up after some prodding but i am taking it in for a look see at the dealer. Rich Forgot to add, I am in the UK.

Hope I don't jinx myself now, but so far I haven't had any problems with mine (7500 miles since Feb 9). Am I the really only person who hasn't had to call for the tow truck... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

My fingers are trembling to even type these words, but I'll roll the dice in the interest of sharing info. with the group - NO problems on my C4S since delivery on March 11. I have logged a paltry 2000 miles so far, as I travel extensively during the week, but I have only GREAT things to say so far.

Update: NO tranny in the US. They are sending one from Germany. 4-5 days. I see a trend here. Either your tranny craps out right after delivery, or you have no problems at all. I need to ask the dealer why the factory inspections missed this. I'm just so disappointed now. But hey, I waited 3 months, whats 4-5 days, right? <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

To me a new tranny in a new car would not be acceptable. Last year I bought a brand new SL500 and noticed 2 days later scratches in the windshield. Dealer said we'll have to replace windshield, can't polish out the defects. I refused, said I bought a NEW car. Dealer agreed and I selected another one car. You are dealing with a $90,000 vehicle. This transmission replacement is just not acceptable.

My only trouble was power steering fluid that was too low upon delivery, causing significant caterwauling when the pump would interittently run dry. Has been bulletproof since (fingers, eyes and ears crossed). New whole car replacement seems good, but logistics may be hard given the relative paucity of unaccounted for C4S's. Unless waiting for a 2003 MY delivery is a palatable option to urbanski.

My C4S has had no problems since mid-Feb delivery and 3000 miles of driving. That the tranny problems that occured on two recent deliveries may not represent a trend, but are very likely not just random events. I agree with Karl K. Insist on a new car, not one that is fixed by the dealer. That may be hard to negotiate, but should not do any harm to try. PCNA could expedite production of a C4S if necessary. These are very high profit margin cars for PAG and the dealers so they should be prepared to satisfy their customers.

I don't know guys. I mean....it's a new tranny, in a car with 60 miles, so it's all still new. In my mind nothing is "tarnished" about my car. Just my opinion of Porsche quality control is. I don't really want to hassle with arguing for a whole new car. They are ripping the tranny out of a car on the line, and FedEx'g it here. I think Porsche is working hard to fix this as quickly as possible. I got a lemon tranny. I still have 4 years of warranty. And I have a lease. So if this whole car turns out to be a lemon, I give it back to the bank. I did ask for a free swap of the cassette holder to a shelf. We'll see.

Urbanski, If it hasn't changed since last year, the transmissions are mated to the engine immediately at the end of engine construction after bench testing etc. It's the last part of the process before being lifted across to the main production line, unless they are destined for foreign constructed boxsters or possibly cayenne units (if they are being produced in the Stuttgart plant), when they are shipped to the respective plants. The engine construction policy is one of complete strip down and dissasembly to find fault if the unit does not pass bench testing - the supplier of the part that causes any failure is then charged the cost of the whole engine and stripdown. I suspect this will be the case with your transmission - little comfort for you whilst you wait for your replacement which will be a virgin unit - I can't remember the gearbox suppliers - ZF or whoever, will no doubt be receiving the entire cost of your episode if the stripped item shows a manufacturing problem. If this is a recuring problem, it's in the gearbox suppliers financial interest to sort the problem out ASAP.....

urbanski if i were you my only concern would be whether your dealer has the experience to properly install a new transmission in such a new model i think you would certainly have a legitimate claim for a whole new car with such serious problem in a car with only 50 miles! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

[quote]Originally posted by ignacio: <strong>urbanski if i were you my only concern would be whether your dealer has the experience to properly install a new transmission in such a new model i think you would certainly have a legitimate claim for a whole new car with such serious problem in a car with only 50 miles! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>Precisely, the expertize of the mechanic is key. Some mechanics are graduates from the cinnabon school of schmear. Porsche Corporate can do a search for you and locate all C4Ss in the USA, do a print-out with details, - colors, options, and let you choose. Here in Florida, for good reason you can refuse the car within the first week. I think that you have such a good reason.

you all are stressing me out!! Who would I call at Porsche to ask about refusing this car? How do I know my mechanic is skilled enough to install this thing right? If he is skilled, what is the big deal anyway? It's a brand new car with an even newer tranny, should be just fine...right?

I had the same thing happen with a new C5. Less than 50 miles and the transmission had to be replaced. Now my '00 Carrera is in need of a new dash, and the dealer is telling me it will be at least 6 months. No need to refuse the car, unless this will really bother you. 6 months from now, if all is well, you will not even remember this.

Thanks, scott watkins. I called Porsche North America, to ask about refusing the car. They said the service dept is qualified to replace this trans. He then said he can't start the refusal process, only the local service guy can. So I called him. He 100% reassured me he is capable of installing this tranny, and the car will leave his shop 100% the same as it would have left the factory. So...I do what now? Thanks.

Take the car with the new tranny. If other problems start popping up this is just more ammo for your fight. Hopefully this was an isolated incident and your car will be 100% from there. Did you really think that Porsche or your dealer would say "You know, come to think of it, we aren't qualified to install the transmission" They should be since this model has been out for close to 4 years, mechanically it shouldn't be different from a C4. I would ask for a serious good will gesture, maybe paying your lease payment for a month or some other types of goodies. I can't imagine how I would have felt had I been in your shoes when I took delivery of my 993. Not a story to tell your friends that wonder why someone would buy a $90+ car. Good luck, Greg

Hi Urbansky You can keep the car if they state on paper what they said as : the car will be like going out from the factory. . If you have a problem again just show this paper to them, then refuse to keep it. Don't be afraid to hit strong on the table. As this is a Porsche AG. error. Don't worry this kind of lemons happen..not so often but...

Your welcome. It all comes down to how much "indian leg wrestling" you want to do. I am not supposed to discuss my old '99 Carrera, but Porsche bought it back and gave me a new '00. Good luck, Scott

I agree with Greg's comments but wouldn't hurt to ask if it's possible to get another car since it's so brand stanking new. If it was something like a whole new engine replacement then that's a whole different ball game- I would really force the issue on a full replacement. Regards. Mike

We have had 4 2002 C4S's delivered and sold through our dealership this year so far. None have had the need for any repairs. The 2nd one sold now had 10K miles and the guy drives the crap out of it.

[quote]Originally posted by John Murray: <strong>We have had 4 2002 C4S's delivered and sold through our dealership this year so far. None have had the need for any repairs. The 2nd one sold now had 10K miles and the guy drives the crap out of it.</strong><hr></blockquote>So in your opinion, did fate just stick me with a bad transmission, and once it's replaced I should have a perfect factory quailty car again??

[quote]Originally posted by urbanski: <strong>So in your opinion, did fate just stick me with a bad transmission, and once it's replaced I should have a perfect factory quailty car again??</strong><hr></blockquote>Unfortunately, you are not one of the four lucky owners. My concern would be "collateral damage". I just went through 4 service trips for a simple sunroof squeak elimination in my MB CLK55, which escalated to two sunshade replacements plus a replacement of the entire interior roof liner, because of a mechanics shortcomings. I stated my position as to what I would do in your case. The 2003 model year starts in just a couple months, you should get priority delivery.

Once again, I agree with Karl K. Rarely do techs fix something perfectly and often either simply do "cosmetic" damage or do more serious damage through carelessness. Worse yet, they may err in their repair such that it is not immediately obvious, but surfaces later as a serious problem. Of course, this is not true of all techs, but it has happended enough to me over the years to be concerned. One hopes that such dealerships would stand behind their work, but unless the customer has specific technical information, the dealership is the judge and jury. If their offer to arrange for you to rent a car from Enterprise is any indicaiton of their interest in your satisfaction, or indeed their sense of equity, I would press the issue through them under a lemon law, if Texas has adopted one. If not, then follow the procedure suggested in the owner's manual until you get to the right person at PCNA. Sorry to raise such ominous possibilities. I truly hope that I am wrong.

Just got back from the dealer checking my car out. I scoped out the service bay area. A '01 C4 was getting a new motor, for an unrepairable oil leak. 12K miles on the old one. (It's interesting to see how large the motors are outside the car). A '02 TT with 3K miles was on a lift for an oil leak. A '01 TT had her rear wheels off for a brake problem. Keep in mind I have NEVER seen a 996 on the road in San Antonio, yet there were 4 in this one shop, 2 with major troubles. Anyone else getting jaded on Porsche quality control???

Well, urbanski, at least that answers the question of whether the tech can replace your tranny. It looks like they are experenced. I've joined our local PCNA club. Nice bunch of guys. Most drive their cars hard. Couple of 996's. It may be the Porsche mystique, but none have reported major disappointment with Porsche quality or lack thereof. They are as passionate of Porsche as I am. Bulletproof is still an accepted adjective in this circle when referring to Porsche cars.

Urbanski -- I don't know how much faith I'd have in receiving my car back from the dealer "100% the same as it would have left the factory." After all, it had this transmission problem when it left the factory in the first place. Personally, I'd kick up a stink about giving me a new car and let all the newly introduced unknowns about your repaired vehicle be the dealer's concerns. Best of luck to you, I'd probably have cried. - jPp

[quote]Originally posted by urbanski: <strong>Just got back from the dealer checking my car out. I scoped out the service bay area. A '01 C4 was getting a new motor, for an unrepairable oil leak. 12K miles on the old one. (It's interesting to see how large the motors are outside the car). A '02 TT with 3K miles was on a lift for an oil leak. A '01 TT had her rear wheels off for a brake problem. Keep in mind I have NEVER seen a 996 on the road in San Antonio, yet there were 4 in this one shop, 2 with major troubles. Anyone else getting jaded on Porsche quality control???</strong><hr></blockquote> This survey might shed a lot of light on your key question re QUALITY. J. D. Power and Associates ranks Porsche # 15 AFTER Honda, Chrysler, Saturn, Audi. <a href="http://www.auto.com/industry/iqs18_20010518.htm" target="_blank">http://www.auto.com/industry/iqs18_20010518.htm</a>

Talking about quality standings for Porsche, in last weeks Automotive News they had the latest JD Power and Associates rankings, on the rankings by marque Porsche was #12 and was well above the industry average. The interesting thing is that on the rankings by manufacturer they were #4, only behind Toyota, Honda and BMW. As a C4S co-waiter (my Dad's production date is June) the problems that have been mentioned in the last few days do make me think, but I honestly believe that they are not common and will not be a trend with the C4S. A4EP New lurker, co-waiter 02 C4S

A point of information on the JD Power quality rankings is in order here for those citing survey results. The primary measurement is problems per 100 vehicles. The results suggest approximately 1 problem/vehicle among all of the leading makes. Power does not suggest or cite whether the differences by marque or manufacturer are significant or not (or at what level they would be significan). Also, Power does not take into account whether the problem reported is catastrophic engine failure or a loose ashtray. Both count as one problem. FYI <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />

Hey Urbanski sorry to hear about your car. I was looking at a used 99 there not to buy. I was just killing time while my car was in service. I was amazed to see how many repair records it had since new (around 35,000 miles) I will be going back this week to the dealer. Do you mind if I take a look at your car if its still there? I sure hope it kicks butt when you get it back. Are you dealing with pat?

[quote]Originally posted by Sprewell17: <strong>Hey Urbanski sorry to hear about your car. I was looking at a used 99 there not to buy. I was just killing time while my car was in service. I was amazed to see how many repair records it had since new (around 35,000 miles) I will be going back this week to the dealer. Do you mind if I take a look at your car if its still there? I sure hope it kicks butt when you get it back. Are you dealing with pat?</strong><hr></blockquote> No problem, if they let you. See if that C4's motor is still on the floor....neat to see.

Let me add 2 cents. Had one of the first Boxsters delivered in the US and after 3k miles had the crunching sound. Got a new engine. What I also got was a letter from Porsche extending the warranty on the engine through its normal mileage or time (not based on car mileage) and Porsche AG changed the cardex to reflect the new tranny number as matching the body. Oh and in the letter was a statement indicating the replacement was due to manufacturing defects and not my abuse. Went a long way in giving the person that bought that car a sense of what happened from someone other than me. In my July build 99 996, I have a new transmission. Again, the cardex has been changed to reflect the new number. That started out as a first gear synchro replacement and ended up with the new transmission. The dealer who did the work in both cases was first rate and I have had no issues from either incident. After a time, I just did not remember that the piece had been replaced. If you don't trust one particular dealer to do the work, find another, if that is an option. I must say that through the three Porsches I have owned I have found the dealership, PCNA and Porsche AG prepared to stand behind their products. They seemed to be as affected by these issues as I was, though maybe it was just good pr on their part. Either way, each car was treated well.

[quote]Originally posted by STRSHP: <strong>Let me add 2 cents. Had one of the first Boxsters delivered in the US and after 3k miles had the crunching sound. Got a new engine. What I also got was a letter from Porsche extending the warranty on the engine through its normal mileage or time (not based on car mileage) and Porsche AG changed the cardex to reflect the new tranny number as matching the body. Oh and in the letter was a statement indicating the replacement was due to manufacturing defects and not my abuse. Went a long way in giving the person that bought that car a sense of what happened from someone other than me. In my July build 99 996, I have a new transmission. Again, the cardex has been changed to reflect the new number. That started out as a first gear synchro replacement and ended up with the new transmission. The dealer who did the work in both cases was first rate and I have had no issues from either incident. After a time, I just did not remember that the piece had been replaced. If you don't trust one particular dealer to do the work, find another, if that is an option. I must say that through the three Porsches I have owned I have found the dealership, PCNA and Porsche AG prepared to stand behind their products. They seemed to be as affected by these issues as I was, though maybe it was just good pr on their part. Either way, each car was treated well.</strong><hr></blockquote>Two out of three cars with catastrophic failures seems outrageous, -- no matter how well a replacement engine and transmission was installed and a letter from Porsche backing up their defective products...

[quote]Originally posted by karl k: <strong>Two out of three cars with catastrophic failures seems outrageous, -- no matter how well a replacement engine and transmission was installed and a letter from Porsche backing up their defective products... C4S entusiast </strong><hr></blockquote> karlk, It's a slow Sunday, and I've just looked at all your other posts. I see you have a C5 'vette. Nice car. Just curious. What is it that you like about Porsche in general and the C4S specifically that makes you an enthusiast? Don't take this the wrong way. I just want to know. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

If you want a real indicator of build quality you have to look at the J.D. Power ratings as indicated in an earlier post. It is the benchmark on the industry. I'm sure Porsche would like to do better than 140 claims per 100 vehicles, but that is really quite good. For every new car that has two or three claims there has to be some with none. Of course, you are hearing from those with claims on this thread. My 2002 has had no claims to date. The challenge to the automakers is a steep one. The Power ratings make them compete on not just build quality, dealer performance as well. Don't be concerned about about the cars you see in the dealers shop as this is the gathering point for problem cars. You don't see all the cars that are running around on the roads with no problems at all. If you went to the hospital you would find many sick people. From that you would not conclude that everyone is sick. Enjoy your car and it's new transmission. You will be fine.

[quote]Originally posted by RogerJ: <strong>Enjoy your car and it's new transmission. You will be fine.</strong><hr></blockquote>Thank you.

Palting, tnx for asking. Last year I owned 6 cars, the 2001 Vette was one. Wanted to trade it for a new 2002 C4S, because of its great aesthetics and and exhilerating handling. Had money down on a 2002 Porsche, but decided to wait a year or two and get a later model, for Porsche hopefully to work out some serious bugs, that seemed to have popped up unexpectedly, and hope for a re-designed interior. In the meantime, I am really enjoying mostly a 2002 MB CLK55, it outperforms the C5. It fits me like a glove. Take good care of your C4S and the kid...

Do you think Fred Schwab or Wendelin Wiedeking surf this website? Imagine Fred scanning these pages, and calling Wendy on the transatlantic hotline saying, "Hey Wendy, you've got to read this post on the lemon you built!" Quality control at PAG seems to be infiltrated by Austin Powers. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> Slam that beer, Cheers, and good luck on your car.

Karlk, thnx for replying. So you went for the Benz rather than the Porsche. I went the other way. I went for the Porsche rather than a Benz. We all have our reasons for the choices we make. No regrets. Have taken the C4S to 170 mph several times, one DE and an autocross. Came away with the best time for class/level in the autocross. I need a few more DE's to even get close to the C4S's limit. PDE in the fall. Thanks for the advice, but my C4S needs no special care. I just wash it, gas it, and blast away with it. It's a blast <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> . Urbanski, it seems I've been following you from the start. Good to hear of the other people's experiences in this thread. Your dealership appears experienced and capable. Given other poster's experience, your car should do just fine with the new tranny. I may see you at one of the future DE's. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Urbanski I'm going to take a look at your car today when I have my cars engine steam cleaned. I will tell you that I'm very **** about my car and I will only let people I trust near it. Everything I have seen so far from the dealership has been professional. I never needed a new tranny but my basic observation is that you should be in good hands. Pat impressed me with his knowledge.

Urbanski I saw your car today. I even saw your name on the tags. Its beautiful. The guy thats doing the work on it sounds as good as they get so I do not think you should worry about anything. I think you are in great hands. Your car is really nice. I wish I had one just like it. From what they said I wouldnt be surprised if you had your car back by Thursday. It sounds like they are really determined to treat you as well and profesionally as possible. Pat said he understood your nervousness and couldnt blame you but the car will come out perfect. Goodluck with it. It really is a beauty.

[quote]Originally posted by Sprewell17: <strong>Urbanski I saw your car today. I even saw your name on the tags. Its beautiful. The guy thats doing the work on it sounds as good as they get so I do not think you should worry about anything. I think you are in great hands. Your car is really nice. I wish I had one just like it. From what they said I wouldnt be surprised if you had your car back by Thursday. It sounds like they are really determined to treat you as well and profesionally as possible. Pat said he understood your nervousness and couldnt blame you but the car will come out perfect. Goodluck with it. It really is a beauty.</strong><hr></blockquote> thanks, man. Thursday Hoping for today, oh well... On a side note, I got my clear sidemarkers yesterday, and my new Bel 985 is on the way =] I'll be all set soon urb

Urb it might be today. LOL I was just trying to be conservative so I didnt get your hopes up. Actually I do believe that Pat said they would get the tranny today. I also think they had your old tranny out so depending on the delivery time today might be possible. Just make sure you let us know how great she rides when you get her back.