What's faster on the track C4 or C2

I am looking at picking up a 99-2000 C4 or C2 and I was wondering for purely road racing which would be faster. I know 1/4 mile times are faster for the C2 but was wondernig about the track.

C2, no question but it does require more skill than the C4.

Not sure about the c2/c4, but the '03 C4S ran' the ring' faster than the '03 C2, Walter Rohl driving both.

Depends on the driver. Apples to apples, C4 is heavier. Chad

'Ring times: 3.4 C2 8:17 3.6 C2 8:17 3.6 C4 8:23

C4S Surgeon wrote: "Not sure about the c2/c4, but the '03 C4S ran' the ring' faster than the '03 C2, Walter Rohl driving both." That's because Walter is getting old and everyone knows how easy it is to drive a C4S when your reflexes and other bodily functions have aged Under ideal conditions with a "younger" driver, the C2 is lighter and should be faster.

The question should be "would you like a heavier car that offsets for bad weather and lack of seat time in 996?" C4 vs C2 is easy. Snows, rains hard -- C4 Turbo looks - C4 Less Experience -- C4 Less depreciation -- C4 Light agile -- C2 Better Mileage -- C2 Lower price, more avail -- C2

Trunk space? C2 has more.

It will depend on the track, however, on most tracks, for the first few laps, the C2. After the tires get hot, the C4. The C4 has better tire (heat) management. Cars are as fast as their ability to get traction. The C4 is going to overcome it's weight due to distribution of power to 4 wheels. It puts the heat stress on 4 tires that will provide more traction than the one or two rear tires on the C2. Roy

C4 is a narrow body, same as C2. Only C4S has "Turbo Look" (widebody and bumper covers) in the 996 series.

on a flying lap, i'd put my money on the c2. lap-after-lap, over changing conditions, the c4 manages tires better and is more consistant. 'ring times are suspect and unreliable in absolute terms. it can be down pouring rain on one section, and dry and sunny at the other...times at the ring should be seen in broad terms, not down to the last hundredths. imo, a 2% difference over an 8-minute lap, is meaningless for comparing road cars.

Track Challenge has the 3.4l C4 doing the ring in 8:23 also. It also says the 3.4l C4 beats the 3.6l C2 at Hockenheim by a half a second 1:16.6 vs 1:17.1. In the hands of a pro driver I'd say the C2 probably has a slight advantage, but driven by the average Joe - C4.

Here's a hint. I don't think I have ever seen a non-turbo AWD in club racing. All things being equal, the c2 wins every time except in the rain. I don't buy the tire management idea either. AWD adds weight. With more weight, everything the tires do is more difficult. It's harder to go, to stop and to turn. I also don't get the novice vs pro idea. I'm not sure what, other than PSM, about a C4 would benefit a novice. Maybe I'm missing something. Just my $.02. Your opions may vary. Jim

After 2 years of track time with a C2, (still a "novice", but doing well), I can only say that I would not want the extra weight of a C4 in my car. I even wish I had the sunroof deleted. The C2 is great in the rain on the track. It holds so well it's only now, after a couple of years, that I am making modifications for the dry track.

Track Challenge also has the 3.4 C2 at 1:15.9 at Hockenheim.

In Nurburgring, the track times that have been posted show the C4 to be the slowest, the C2 faster, and the C4S faster than the C2. All the above using stock cars. Unfortunately, here in the US, only the C4 was available for 1999-2000. For track use, I'd go with the C2 over the C4 for that MY. For 2002 and up, I'd go with the C4S over the C2. Of course, the fact that I bought the C4S over the C2 has absolutely nothing to do with that opinion, heh-heh-heh .

I'd say it all depends on the driver/car/track

I agree w/Jim. I am not buying the "Tire Management" idea at all. You may be pulling out of turns with all four tires, but you would also be cornering and braking with significantly more weight. In my opinion the C4 has three strikes against it when going up against a C2 on in a road course. 1) More Weight 2) Additional Drivetrain losses (less power to the wheels) 3) Understeer (the C4 has more) The understeer may help a novice with confidence problems but at the end of the day the C2 will out accelerate, brake, and corner a C4. The again maybe I'm wrong and we'll soon see the 997 GT3 or GT2 with all wheel drive. However....throw some snow in the mix and it all changes!

It appears that Porsche feels 2wd is a superior overall solution for their most sporting of 911s, which should go a ways towards answering your question: - GT3, and - GT2 I think I remember Stuck mentioning that the C4s would likely be quicker (than the C2) in the hands of an inexperienced driver. Makes sense.

C2 is quicker in capable hands while a beginner would be faster in the C4. Using the "Ring" for measuring track capablities is not accurate since it does nor resemble any other track in the world. Ciao, Johannes E.

Anyone who has ever raced knows that weight is critical. My personal preference is the C4 for the road and the C2 for the track. I just love the feeling of security you get driving a C4 in the rain.

The beauty of the 'Ring in determining a car's track capabilities is that it combines the challenges of both short, tight tracks and longer, faster tracks in each lap. So, if you are not setting up a car for a specific use, re: autocross, vs say, 2.5 mile road courses, if you simply want evaluations of a singular setup which could be used on a variety of tracks, the 'Ring lap time is an excellent measurement of overall vehicle performance capability and is generally accepted by the automotive industry as such. Many manufacturers now use the 'Ring for performance testing and suspension design and calibration. Hell, even Cadillac, a luxury sedan manufacturer, does so.

The 'ring' is an excellent measure of a car, that's why all the major manufactures test there and compare the relevant data obtained. I couldn't think of a better tool to compare Porsche models/ F cars/ L cars/ corvettes/ etc..

I'm sure there's a reason why the supreme C2 based GT3 is not an AWD car...

I'm always amused by these threads. How many of us could actually push a C2/C4 to it's limits? It's like making sure you have Tiger Woods' clubs even though you shoot a 98.

Well put.

The GT3 and GT2 don't have AWD because it wouldn't be able to race in their respective categories if it did. AWD has an advantage but the extra wieght negates it. A C2 should come out on top on tracks with longer straights and not so tight corners. That extra .2 or .3 faster exceleration on a C2 is quickly lost when you have to break much earlier on a tight corner. The C4 in my opinion is for rallies and extreme weather or endurance racing. Anyways it is fun to drive both.

In fact, the opposite is true. You will have to brake sooner in a C4 due to higher vehicle weight. Addidionally, the C2 will allow for higher cornering speeds due to lower weight and less understeer.

I disagree. Have you ever spun your car at the track or autocross course? If so you were not only at the limit, you exceeded it. Porsches are driven on the Ring, in DE's and Autocrosses every day all over the world by amatuer drivers. These drivers often take their cars up to (and some times over) their limits. You don't have to be Schumacher to experience this just as you don't have to be Tiger Woods to have fun on a golf course. PS - If Tiger Woods has a new se of clubs that will take a golfer from a 98 to a 95 and the price is right, I'l bet he'll find a few takers.

It's a tricky call, since the C4 will allow you to get on the gas sooner on corner exit. Also remember that the 996 C4 was named the best handling car in the world at the time. Not an understeering pig a'la Audi (see my sig ). Given where I live, I would have gone C4 (narrow body) had they been readily available in '03. The C4s has never been my cup 'o tea.

It hard to decide until we find one good driver to drive a C2 and C4 on the same track under the same condition. I think the C4 might not be slower because I've instructed students with both C2 and C4. The C4's seems to not push as bad as my C2. Kam

that kind of limit is completely different than pushing the limits on fast consistent laps. most hpde'ers or autocrossers spin out becuase they did something wrong; usually trying to over correct or they did not set themselves up properly for a corner. I think its deceiving to think that one spins out their P becuase they are pushing the limits at a DE event.

If you can lower the C4 to the same weight as the C2 you would have a dog fight on your hands. The C4 can generally get the power down quicker than a C2.

Very true. I was careful not to say that the novice driver may have exceeded the limits of the car through driver error. However, that does not change my point that an amatuer driver can drive at the limit on a track. He or she will not do it as effectively as a pro or do it in every area of the track (like a pro) but they certainly can hit "10/10ths" in certain sections. I know I do and I'm no pro. The easiest way to really experience the difference of a C2 and C4 is to drive them back to back on an autocross course. I had just such an opportunity a few years ago at a Porsche dealer event. There is considerable difference in the handling of these cars (an once again I'm not a pro). I think people are fooling themselves if they don't think that the all weather benifits and safer handling that they get with the all wheel drive C4 doesn't come with handling and acceleration trade offs. Do you agree? Personal priorities will dictate which car is right for any individual (neither is a "wrong" choice).

Porsche did not design the C4 for weather benefit. They design the C4 to handle better. Weather benefit is not at the top of their design goals. It is a side benefit. Kam

Re-read the post I was responding to. He was not talking about corner exit and neither was I. The C4 definately has a traction advantage over the C2 on corner exit in low grip situations. However, in the dry (even with 320 hp on tap) I have not seen or experienced problems putting the power down (on exit) in a C2. That being said I agree that you should be able to "get in it" sooner with a C4.

Not experiencing problems putting the power down in a C2 does not conflict with a C4 can get the power down earlier.

I was the guy who did the "tire management" post. It was not my opinion, it was information provided by Porsche when they launched the C4 996. I don't recall where I read it, (Panorama, Excellence, or another publication) I'll see if I can find it... Roy

As far as weight - on the 3.4l there's a 122 lb difference and it's in the front, the C4S weighs 275 lbs more then a 3.6l C2 though. Porsche's 0-62 times show only a tenth of a second difference.

Re-read my post. I believe that is what I just said. "The C4 definately has a traction advantage over the C2 on corner exit in low grip situations. However, in the dry (even with 320 hp on tap) I have not seen or experienced problems putting the power down (on exit) in a C2. That being said I agree that you should be able to "get in it" sooner with a C4." I eagerly await the new better handling 2005/06 997GT3 4, 997GT2 4, and Carrera GT 4. I am sure that Ruf is also working on a new all wheel drive model. Until then I will defer to the following quote they (Porsche) put on their web site "The all wheel drive system is complemented by the revolutionary Porsche Stability Management (PSM) system and provides optimum traction for less than optimal road conditions." I'm not a linguist but that sounds like "weather benefit" speak to me.

YOU are a very wise man. i find it so funny how supposedly knowledgeable guys use the Ring time as the holy grail

How 'bout this: My C4 is faster than your C2 anyday!! Of course that was tongue in cheek. Lighten up. Threads like these are always fun, because there will never be a definitive answer. It will always be that one is better than the other in one condition or another. Even if we get one excellent driver to drive both, it can always be claimed that he was more experienced in driving one form of drivetrain over the other and therefore it was not the car that lost but the lack of experience. Excellent points have been made ove the advantages and differences between C2 and C4. and the limitations of testing, but there wil never be a definitive consensus on which one is faster. BTW, what happenned to bowman98, the starter of this thread? One post and he's gone. He's probably sitting back reading this thread and laughing his a-- off.

Walter Rohl.

Can't we add tip or 6speed to the debate? AS

0-60? 1/4 mile? Top Speed? The C4S definately has more "tire" and a wider track (advantages for sure), but it also has more weight, a higher cd, and added drivetrain drag. It is interesting that Porsche uses the "narrow body" for the GT3.

In fairness Paltine I will give you a little know fact, Porsche does use the C4 chassis (narrow body) for the GT3. It's added structure up front yields a slight improvement in stiffness. But you still drive the slower (top speed) car! Don't forget at the end of the day we all drive Porsches and the differences between C2's, C4's, and C4S's while noticeable are slight!!

c2 is faster, accept it.

Readings from numerous road test articles all concluded that in stock form, a c4 is faster than a c2 on a road course. On the other hand I am sure a c2 is more fun to drive in a classic 911 way. So a C4 handles better and C2 provides more driving fun. Everbody wins.

I will say three things: c4s has turbo brakes- marginally better even because of weight but still better heat dissipation etc. C4 must be driven differently i.e. you get on the power earlier in the apex and to more braking beforehand to get the most out of it- whereas in a c2 the power is delvered 100% at the apex, the c4 is given the power slightly before "the cheat" c2 can manage a greater slip angle out of the car This all basically results in the same result c4/s can be driven quicker by a novice c2 can be driven faster with skill

Great Looking Car Sean! What did you lower it with.....PSS9's or springs? If springs which type?

More tire, bigger brakes, better cooling, sport suspension, lower center of gravity(sits lower), superior ad's(doubt a higher cd), it carries 281# more and loses some drivetrain losses as well. I wouldn't compare it to a GT3, different animal. However, I think the C4S is superior to a C2 on the track in most hands. Wonder why Walter Rohl said he thought it was the best of the 996 series?

As far as being wider, I would normally agree that to be an advantage but the fact is that the car is only wider in the rear and the same width up front, netting in more potential under-steer.

Awwwright, I guess no one noticed the "tongue in cheek" part of my post. Anyway, straight line speed is NOT a Porsche strong point. Lots of cars will best both the C2 and C4S in 0-60, quarter mile and top speed. But, take these cars to the track, and the Porsche will pass these cars time and time again, lap after lap. Have we moved on to C4S vs C2? On that I have more definite opinions . Lots of past threads on it, too. The C4S by purpose and design by Porsche is superior to the C2, both in performance and amenities, as well as economics. Let's take amenities and economics. Take a C2, and option it to the same extent as the C4S. That means adding a sport suspension, bigger brakes, larger wheels and tires, full leather, PSM, side skirts. It will cost significantly more than the C4S which have these as standard. Then there are the things that you can not change unless you go to a major expense and body work, such as the Turbo front and rear and the wide body look as well as wider track and, of course, the AWD. I'm talking new from the factory back when the 996 was new. Take the same cars as used cars, and the price difference to upgrade a stock used C2 to the same level as a stock used C4S would be even more. I could be wrong on that last point, since the C4S has held it's value better than the C2, so the price diff between a used C2 and a used C4S can be large enough to offset the upgrade cost. Let's take performance. I've already made my statement regarding straight line performance. How about the track? The 996 C4S is faster than the C2 at the 'ring. Regardless of any disclaimers, opinions, regarding the Nrburgring, THE C4S IS FASTER AT THE TRACK THAN THE C2. It was faster with a pro. The C4S is easier to drive fast than a C2, therefore it will also be faster with a novice driver. I am in no way a pro, but I can attest to the fact that I have passed more experienced drivers in their 996 C2 with track suspensions and roll bars and 6 point harnesses and aerokits and track tires in my bone stock C4S with street tires. I can honestly say I have not been passed by a 996 C2 in any DE at any track driven by a driver at the same level I was in. Is it the brakes? Is it the wider track? Is it the AWD? I don't know, but it definitely was not the driver. It's the car. OK. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it .

I totally agree that most drivers would be quicker around a track in a C4S than a C2. That a C2 laps faster than a C4, I would think that the C4S is probably quicker around a track than a C2 due to the upgraded suspension and brakes. Perhaps someone can post laps times for 993 C2S vs 993 C4S to illustrate the effect of adding AWD. Another interesting comparison may be lap times of the upcoming 997 C4S vs 997 C2S.

Palting, well put, of course I'm biased.

wait.. I thought the debate was over the c4 vs. c2, not the c4s vs. c2. I'm confused now.. to add-on another comparison... what about the 996 c4s vs. 997 c2?

You really want to know what is faster? OK, anything I am driving. I would put my 996 C2 with PSS9s and GT3 adjustable swaybars against a C4S any day of the week. Of course, I am biased as well PS, since brakes are not a problem on the C2, I do not think that the Turbo brakes on the C4S would make, to the vast majority of drivers, an appreciable difference.

I got your "smart"......"tongue in cheek" response and so I gave you my "smart" response (did you get it). Now your talking interior amenities!! You have managed to totally take this thread off topic not once but twice. Let me be clear, I never said that the C2 would lap a road course faster than a C4S (only a C4). I said that the C2 would have faster 0-60 times, 1/4 mile, and top speed (than a C4S). I believe these facts are undisputed, do you agree? Let's pull this back on topic. On a road course (for arguments sake let's use the "ring" and agree on "stock cars" and the same "good driver" - no need for experts or novices) the C4S > C2 > C4........period. Can you agree with that??? Start adding Tips, Cabs, 16 year old first time drivers, PSM vs. non PSM, 030, PSS9's, and the optional kitchen sink into the mix and it gets too confusing. At the end of the day we all love our cars and purchased according to our performance priorities and what we could afford (I'd love to buy the new 997 GT3 or Carrera GT, wanna spot me a few $$............I'm good for it)

I'm sorry, but I thought when you put a question mark you generally are asking a question. I was trying to answer you, not take it off topic. I stand corrected. From now on, a question mark does not mean it needs an answer, right?

What does the C4S do the 'ring in? I can't find it. I'm curious as to how the suspension, brakes, and AWD, make up for almost 300 lbs in extra weight.

I think it was 8:12 or 8:14, I saw it in a recent article on Walter Rohrl, I'll try and dig it up.

Me too. Of course, when you take into account the various crap I have added to my car (xm, bluetooth hand free kit, etc . . ) and my ever expanding waistline, the difference may end up being pretty negligible.

:>)

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif

Show me a back to back between a C4s and a sport-suspended C2 (factory option, so it's apples to apples, imo) with a professional driver. Same track, same day, and not sponsored by Porsche. From a performance perspective, the performance *enhancing* bits are the big brakes and (in some scenarios) the AWD. Throw the big brakes on a sport suspended C4 and you'd have a higher performing car than the C4s (IMO). Don't you think Porsche would want you to believe the car you're paying more for is higher performance? Don't tell me the C4s is actually less expensive than a C2. That's only for the dash-strokers that have to have fancy interiors The C4s is a very strong performing package out of the box. It's a very capable and safe car. That said, its primary design goal was not performance, it was built to ammortize the wide body just like Porsche has done with the last several incarnations of the 911. I thought this thread was about the C2 and C4?

Even if you compare a C4s, I doubt that the right C2 would have trouble with it. A 40 Jahre that has the X51 would be faster, sorry.

It's called engineering design . Sorry, couldn't resist the wisecrack. c4surgeon is right. It was in an article about Rohl. Anyway, here is a compilation of times someone here got off the web. I do not make any claims on it's veracity or accuracy, and the usual disclaimer as to driver, driver intent, weather conditions, yada, yada, yada. I'm just supplying it add some meat to the discussion, or add fuel to the fire. 7:06 --- BMW M3 GTR, 24hrs, test session, J�rg M�ller (2003) 7:19 --- Radical SR3 Turbo (2003), 7:20* -- Opel Astra DTM V8 Coupe, set-up for 24hrs race (sport auto 2003) *estimated 7:25 --- Alzen Motorsport Porsche 996 Turbo, 24hrs race, Uwe Alzen 7:28 --- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther R�hrl, Autobild July 2004 7:32.5 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann (2001) 7:36 --- Porsche Carrera GT, factory test driver Walther R�hrl (2002) 7:40 --- Mercedes McLaren SLR, Klaus Ludwig, Autobild July 2004 7:42 --- Radical 1500 SR3 (2002) 7:43 --- TechArt GT Street (2001) 7:43.5 - Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine, 2002) 7:44 --- Pagani Zonda C12S (2003) 7:45 --- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 (2000) 7:46 --- Porsche 996 GT2 7:46 --- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (1999) 7:47 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381PS (996) (2004) 7:49 --- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup 7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (2003) 7:50 --- Blitz Supra, 750 PS, Herbert Sch�rg (1997) 7:50 --- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (1993) 7:50 --- Lamborghini Murcielago (2002) 7:52 --- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (1995) 7:52 --- Lamborghini Gallardo (2003) 7:52 --- Mercedes SLR McLaren (2004) 7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003) 7:55 --- Caterham R500 Superlight (2002) 7:56 --- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale (2004) 7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo 7:59 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Performance Chassis) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004) 8:02 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Sport PASM setting) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004) 8:03 --- Porsche 996 GT3 (1999) 8:04 --- Lamborghini Diablo GT 8:05 --- Ferrari 575M Maranello 8:05 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Normal PASM setting)(Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004) 8:06 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG 8:06 --- Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn 8:07 --- Ferrari 550 Maranello 8:09 --- Honda NSX-R 8:09 --- Ferrari 360 Modena 8:09 --- Lamborghini Diablo SV (no ABS?) 8:10 --- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411PS, UK-Spec, no ABS 8:10 --- Donkervoort D8 180R 8:12 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG 8:12 --- Porsche 993 Turbo 8:13 --- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS 8:14 --- Porsche 996 C4S 8:15 --- Porsche 911 Carrera 2 (997) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004) 8:16 --- AC-Schnitzer E36 M3 CLS II, 350 PS 8:17 --- Aston Martin Vanquish 8:17 --- Porsche 996 C2 8:18 --- BMW Z8, 400 PS (2002) 8:18 --- Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (2003) 8:18 --- Ferrari F355 8:20 --- Audi RS6 8:22 --- BMW E46 M3 8:22 --- BMW M Coupe, 321 PS 8:23 --- Aston Martin DB7 GT 8:23 --- Porsche 996 Carrera 4 8:25 --- Audi RS4 375 HP

WHO WERE THE DRIVERS????!! I DEMAND TO KNOW WHO WAS DRIVING THE C2 AND C4S!!!! BLASPHEMY. I CLAIM THE GT3 AS A C2 AND VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!

"WHO WERE THE DRIVERS????!! I DEMAND TO KNOW WHO WAS DRIVING THE C2 AND C4S!!!! BLASPHEMY. I CLAIM THE GT3 AS A C2 AND VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!! I second that...

Heh-heh-heh. No way TD. The GT3 uses the C4S chassis, therefore I claim it as a C4S!!!!!! What was interesting to me was how close the 997S with sport chassis, heavy, electronic laden, and, according to ROHL was just being taken out as a getting to know you run rather than a try at it's best, how close it came to the GT3.

Damn..

2WD my Friend = C2!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You owe me wine or hard alcohol. Your trickery exceeds the level of buying me off with a mere beer

Palting, I'm just giving you C4S guys a hard time because a 3.4l C4 is only 122 lbs heavier then it's C2 counter part. I knew it felt fast when I drove it, but I'm really impressed with the 997 S times (and the C4S time).

exactly ive been to the 'ring to watch the gerry gp back in '98. the long course where you guys get the 'you-can-go-to-the-bank-bet-your-farm-and-hang-your-hat-on-it' 'ring times is the most unpredictable track you'll find. i've never driven it, but a friend with the bmwcca was a guest instructor one summer with a local bimmer club. tall tales abound at that place, and his experinces were no less interesting. long story short, published times should be taken with a grain of salt. you're better off comparing your own times at the local track. when you get waxed by lesser cars like a spec miata, you'll know what that means. fwiw, look at the radical's times...i can tell you without going to the ring, that's a quick car.

Actually it (the GT3) uses the narrow body C4 chassis, not the C4s chassis.

Oh, OK. Sorry. I claim it as a C4!!!!!!

Yet more trickery. Your silence about the wine and/or liquor is deafening.

C2=boxster+child-seats+poor weight distribution+$20k C4=C2+"band aid" to help the C2 handle GT3="C4 lightweight" C4s=C4 + "kirstie alley, with a tan" ...and I love them all. I would *love* to see a comprehensive track test between the different n/a 996 variants. Unfortunatley we'll never see it, so we're all just bench-racin.

Should read C2 Lightweight - it has RWD and the same "poor" weight dist. as the C2!!! Plus the C2 contingent claimed it first........we got dibs!

You can't argue with dibs, though it's a C4 lightweight in the sense that it's a C4, seam-welded, minus the AWD, sunroof, etc. Plus a "real" porsche engine

I agree, the "real" engine is the key!

C2 wins over C4!!! this useless bit of info proves it

Hey, now, I win. It's a C4. Stiles said so. YOU owe ME the drink

You slippery devil. Why don't we meet at Mid-Ohio in May (I got accepted for Region 2) and have our own test? I will be the visitor to your fine state so the wine/liquor is on you. If you ever make it to DC, I will spring, although you certainly don't deserve it. And yes, as my C2 brethren have pointed out, I called dibs on the GT3 first.

Is that a DE you're going to, or a Club race?

C4S Surgeon Are you going to NNJR's Pocono event on April or which events are you going to attend this years. Kam

What is the date in April, I might. I'm going to LR with the PDA march, then the metro pca stuff at LR, WG and Pocono. I'll also try and do another pda WG later in the year.

OK, TD. As a host, I will spring for the liquor, although you definitely don't deserve it with all the name calling you've done . I don't do club racing, so it'll have to be a DE. I can buy you the drink at the club race, though. But wait, you can't be club racing the 996 Targa? It's got all that extra weight up top. At least the C4S weight is performance related. Anyway, I guess it's the MOR DE then. If not, I'm sure we can find some common ground at Dale's track schedule. Looking forward to it, but I always look forward to any DE .

C4S Surgeon: NNJR's Pocono event is the week before Metro's. They are running the North Course and need instructors. I think NNJR can use your help instructing. Have we met before? Are you an oral surgeon? I go to Metro's event occationally. I used to track a Silver 911 SC and now a 2000 Zenith Blue 996 and 92 Integra race car. Kam

Could be, I do General and Colon surgery, I usually run in the intermediate/blue group at pda and I think yellow at pca's. I just haven't done that many of their events, I do a lot of pda bc I go with a buddy with a viper, metro is porsche only. I don't think I'd be comfortable instructing anyone beyond novice. I may try that pocono event as I can't get away for the metro one anyway!

C4S Surgeon: I don't think we have met before. I have been running in the red run group for many years now. Hope to see you at some events this year. Kam

DE, I am too green for club racing, at least for the time being.

My fat a$$ compensates for the extra weight up top so that I have perfect 50/50 vertical weight distribution. It is DE, and I look forward to meeting you. I don't call those who are willing to buy me liquor names, so I agree to a truce, at least until I see the liquor

C4 is only about 100lbs heavier than the C2. The C4S is much heavier.

ummm... that's 100kg not 100lbs. turns out to be 220lbs

The 3.4l C4 (3,032 lbs) is 122 lbs heavier then the 3.4l C2 (2,910 lbs). The C4S (3,240 lbs) is 275 lbs heavier then the 3.6l C2 (2,965 lbs), according to Porsche. Incidentally, the 997 C2 is 3,075 lbs (w/no spare) the 997 S is 3,131 lbs (no spare). They just keep getting heavier and heavier...

Amazing how they keep getting faster, tho'.

totally agree

5 seconds is a long time at The Ring.

totally agree again!!!! i will tell a story wich I lived... here in greece were i live we do have only 2 proper track fields.... one is close were i live and the total distance is 2.1 klms... the other one is far away and have never been there... years ago, porsche club italia came here to visit my country and of course the track..... one of the official instructors could easily beat 911's....with the very first Boxster 2.5......205 ps..... he managed 1:13.05......around the track, while me with my 964 approx 270ps suspension...mods exhaust etc....managed only 1:13.80..... i feel like C2 Vs C4 comparison is really out of place since, i assume 95% of us cannot drive like Walter Rohl generally speaking though: 4WD = more weight, more weight = higher power/klgs ratio higher power/klgs ratio = slower in general terms but again it all comes down to driver's skills......

This website re-publishes test times directly from Auto Motor Und Sport which is the most respected automobile rag in Germany r/t Ring times, FWIW.

just being tongue in cheek

Not to continue to push the issue with factual representation. # 20,832 km 8,16 = 151 km/h Porsche 996 Carrera 4S 320 ps, Porsche test drivers 2001. # 20,832 km 8,17 = 151 km/h Porsche 993 Carrera 4 # 20,832 km 8,17 = 151 km/h Porsche 996 Carrera 300 ps. # 20,600 km 8,15 = 150 km/h BMW Z8 400 ps, Sport Auto 2000. # 20,832 km 8,17,37= 150 km/h Schnitzer M3 E36 CLS II 350 ps # 20,832 km 8,18 = 150 km/h BMW Z8 400 ps. # 20,832 km 8,19 = 150 km/h Yamaha R1, J�rund Seim, Norway. # 20,832 km 8,20 = 150 km/h Porsche 996 Carrera 2 320 ps, Porsche test drivers 2001.

Okay, I know I'm a little late to this post, but here's my view. I've noticed that a 996 C2 doesn't like to turn while you're accelerating. This is most noticeable at an autocross, and I remember wishing I had ordered mine as a C4 the first time I participated in an autocross. The weight difference there is not likely to make a difference in acceleration, since the game is largely one of cornering ability and speeds are fairly low. Also, I find in spirited street driving, the front end of my C2 seems a bit "floaty," so I would welcome more weight up there. I'm also not a big fan of the huge rear weight bias, so the slight additional weight up front is likely to make the car just a bit closer to 50/50 weight distribution. If I buy another 911, it will most likely be a C4.

Or you can properly set it up and stomp on c4's if you have any skill.

All that shows is that a decent driver can drive a slower car faster than a lessor driver

Agreed. After an '01 996 TT, C2 only for me. I have some crazy Ring times with the 996 turbos that have been converted to 2 wheel via the likes of tuners like Roock. When Porsche did the GT 2 and 3, what did they choose? With tire products what they are today, AWD is only great for snow/and or rallies. I take that back. The Roock RST 650 is now using the AWD platform, but the guys who live in Monaco race GT3 RS's. GT Champs Roock RST 650

Having had both cars, they each have power-on understeer. That said, the C4 is more 'confused' on track; PSM still controls F-R power transfer, and the steering feel is a shade more distant with the front wheels driven. Safety equipment, Motons, GT3 sways, and ERP camber plates going on as soon as they are delivered. Will have more feedback soon.

Exactly why I sold my '01 996 TT after two months; well that and the $10,000 profit margin.