Tire Advice Needed

Here is my dilemma.... I am driving Pirelli PZero ross's on the car (18 inch) and the front tires need to be replaced. I replaced the rears about 7k miles ago, so they probably have another 3-5k in them. I don't track the car, just use it for occasional driving to work and pleasure cruising. 4 Pirelli's installed (with Road Hazard certificates) are about $1,500 at TireRack and Discount Tires. If I get the front tires only it will set me back about $600, but it will also mean I will have to pay $900 in 6-12 months to get a new set of rears. Do I really need the Pirelli's given how I use the car, or should I be ok using something cheaper. If so, what would you recommend? Thanks!

well, the difference in wear between fronts and rears are something we have to live with, so this is an exercise you'll repeat. i drive with mismatched fronts and rears and the car performs fine for daily driving. as far as brand, should you choose to buy a different one for you fronts, there are a wide variety of opinions. i run michelin pilot sports myself for the front. they are "n" rated and all that marketing stuff. i just happened to find a deal on them.

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How much are you going to save, given your cost/month driving low miles, why not stick with the best tires you can run? I'm not a good person for this question, because I think tires are one of the single most important items you can invest in to help maximize your car's performance. Whether it be traction, reduced noise, whatever your goal - the right tires can make a very noticeable difference in your driving experience. Saving a few bucks in my opinion, should only be reserved for when you can't tell an obvious difference, or simply can't afford the best replacement parts. I run Michelin Pilot Sport Ribs and I'm very happy with them. However, they are quite expensive, relatively.

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well, assuming performance characteristics are similar enough, do you think running mismatched sets is an issue?

I wouldn't lose too much sleep running mismatched if I were "migrating" to a new tire. Just an opinion... but I wouldn't do it indiscriminately.

mismatched sets aren't an issue for street driving frankly. The only noticable difference you'll have is in the noise characteristics. some brands have stiffer sidewalls, but I doubt again, for pleasure cruising, you'll notice any difference. I'd say go ahead and use whatever brand you feel comfortable with. I run Michelin Pilot Sport 2s but I've run the OEM contisport cotact 2, Bridgestone S02A, etc. The difference between them has been noise. Wear has been close enough to ignore and handling wise, you'd notice if you start to do push the car. See if you can find a used set of tires. If not, you can always order the tire shaved from Tire Rack so you get it and have the tires match the wear to the ones you already have getting back in sync.

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I swtiched from PZeros to HTR3s and love the quiet grippy ride and look forward to how long these 30K rated tires will last (no data there yet). Also the whole set was a touch above $600 uninstalled.

What brand is the HTR3? Anybody driving Hankook tires... ventusSport K104 is dirt cheap (probably for a reason)

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HTRZ 3 is a Sumitomo, a lesser brand of Dunlop, not a bad tire at all for the money.

Rikens are made by Michellin... and the entire set will cost you 500 bucks. If you don't track the car and you don't go on very intense runs, I don't see why you couldn't put something like that on. My NA 993 had them and for dd duty they were fine.. a little too hard, but I wasn't pushing them.

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Back in sync? When do wear rates on the fronts and rears of these cars sync up? Unless you mean changing the fronts every other rear change.

Dutchie, I ran through twe sets of P-Zeros rear tires in about 17.5K miles (first set 8K and second set 9.5k). The only reason I got a second pair of rears is that I wrote Pirelli and got a 50% credit. After the second set of P-Zeros died, I got some Bridgestones - hated them. They cupped very badly after about 7K miles. I then went with Micheline PS2's. I had 14k miles on them when the car went back to the leasing company. The leasing company's inspector estimated (actually measured) 60% tread wear left. Had I been able to keep the car, I think I could have gotten 7k to 8k additional mikes on them. FWIW.

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That's a good point... wondering if I potentially am ok having a mismatch for a couple of months while migrating. Then the next question is... what am I migrating to?

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My 4 tires wear at the same exact rate, believe it or not. I think some of my street driving and track duty evens all of that out. I'm very aggressive brake and don't spend much time going straight

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Take the four 50-pound bags of sand out of the trunk and your front tire wear will improve.

There is one point you may want to consider with certain tires. Our cars wear the rear tires on the inside first, to the point where the inside tread is gone but the rest of the tire is good shape. Certain tires, like PS2's, are not only directional but have different tread pattern on each side of the tire. That means the right rear can only be the right rear. Other tires may allow you to rotate by removing the tire from the wheel and switching it to the other side of the car to give you some fresh rubber on the inside.

I did the above with the P zero rosso and the only problem was a Woo Woo sound at 68 MPH. I got another season out of the rears.

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Where did you buy them? Are they 18 inch?

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I am having a similar experience with my PS2's. I've got 15,000 on them and they have quite of bit of life left. Unfortunately, Michelin no longer makes them in 285/30/18. I guess you could go up or down a size or get the plain PS.

looked at tirerack for the Sumitomo HTR Z III (assume that is the tire you are talking about) and received the following error/warning message: The following tire you have selected has a higher load rating than the vehicle's Original Equipment (O.E.) tires. This typically results in increased ride harshness, which some customers may find undesirable. What does that mean and/or do I care?

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My PS2s were 235/40/18 front and 295/30/18 rears. Both were N2.

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The ride will be harsher thatn you are used to with the P-Zeros.

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I think Hankook ventusSports are a great value for money. When I bought my car (1999 C2) two months agou the dealer pormised to deliver the car with new tires. I was shocked when I got the car to find out that he put Hankooks under my car. However, Hankooks have been a positive experience to me. If the tire does not wear out quickly, I will definitely consider buying more Hankooks. At least until my fronts wear out.

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I have given misinformation here!!! I went in the carage to check the type of the tires that I have. They are Hankook V12 Evo's. Sorry about the mixup.

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I got them from Tire Rack and yes they are 18".

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I didn't see that when I ordered. But I would describe the ride as less harsh than the PZeros (for what that's worth). The ride is much, much quieter.

I had mine on for a season now. Running 235s and 295. Like them much better than the Conti2s and for about 1/2 of the price. Excellent grip in the wet as well. This is where I got the idea to pick one up. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...itomo+HTR+ZIII

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I think I am sold... probably put 2 new fronts on and drive with the pirelli's on the back for another 4 months and then change those out as well.

We should get all the RLer's together and buy our own tire company. It would probably be cheaper in the long run.

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+1!

Stay with Pirelli - go P-Zero Nero M&S http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=9 You get a great tire, better tire life, great price $151 each, quality you can trust (unlike some of the unknown brands) Have them on the wife's 986 now - no complaints what so ever.

Do they have better life than the Rosso's?

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You can always start a thread on these mud + snow (all season) tires and see if folks who have bought them have great reviews.

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Yes, if you compare the tire specs, and look at the wear grade quoted by Pirelli, the P-Zero Rosso has a rating of 220, against the P-Zero Nero of 400. A grade of 400 would indicate the tread would last almost twice as long as the 220 tire. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compar...li&RunFlat=All I wouldn't recommend them if I wasn't already using them on a car - they appear to be the compromise of price, wear, grip, quality etc I was looking for. Nice look on the car as well - not that looks is the deciding factor, but you do want them to complement the car and not look like tractor tires!

Just take the UTQG ratings with a grain of salt and be an informed consumer. Great discussion though.

Mmmmm interesting when you do the side by side comparison on TireRack.com The P-Zero Nero comes out ahead across the board on customer sat http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compar...i&startIndex=0

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Agree - however, in this case the wear ratings are quoted by the same manufacturer, so should be a very good indication. Comparing between manufacturers is a lot harder. My experience would back up the numbers - and then when you look at the stats from the customer surveys on TireRack.com, they back up the numbers as well.

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You could get the Mich 285/30/18 in Pilot Sport Rib

Have question on Michelin PS 2 that i have on my 02 996- I've Ps2 on car now and just got new set of rims with PS2- want to be sure i've these on car correctly. Deckman indicated the PS 2 are both directional and can't be flipped on rim- I see these tires are marked with "outside" so they are mounted correctly on rim. However i don't see any directional signs/arrows on any of my PS 2 showing rotation direction and wondering how i know which direction the rotation should be. Other directional tires clearly indicate with arrow or say rotation with arrow- i don't see that the PS 2 have this. My old RA1 were not directional Are the Michelil PS 2 definitely directional? How do i tell which direction they go? Thanks

Dutchie, I've got a set of 225/18 Pzero rosso's taken off my 02 targa with good tread left... don't now the exact x/32's, but they can be had for cheap as they're just taking up space in the garage. I can snap some pics if you'd like. Would most definitely last longer than your current rears would. PM me if you likey.

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The Michelin PS2 is NOT a directional tire. I use PS2s as a rain tire on track and for what little street driving I do. They are a great track tire for a non-R compound tire. I swap them from side to side to adjust track wear. I have a set of Bridgestone S-02 on 8 & 11 x 18 hollow spoke turbo OEM wheels I need to sell. They are a direct fit for 996 Turbo and C4S. PM me if anyone has an interest.

IF you want to save some money go with this OEM tire -- the Brigestone RE050A in N0 or N1. I have them on my 997S Cab in 19 in. They are also avail. in 18. Price-wise you will save considerably over the Pirellis and Michelins, and yet they wear longer than either of those. I just put four new ones on my 2006 the other day.

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Yes, thank you for pointing that out. I am dealing with the same concern as the OP. I will have PS2's on the front with considerable life left in them when I need rears. Tire Rack offers the Sport Ribs and Costco shows the Pilot Sport, (not Pilot Sport 2) as available. So is it better to mix tires designs or increase the size by 10 mils? Probably the size change, I think. A couple of posters in this threat mentioned using 295's on the rear. Adds a touch of understeer, I guess, but probably not enough for me to notice.

my P-Zeros are spent too, so it's time for new runbber. I'm going with the Sumitomos - great price, my buddy likes his...

What a coincidence, I was just talking tires w/ an old M3 buddy of mine yesterday. There was a big deal about this on the M3 forums a while back and the board was split between the OEM Michelin Pilot Sport or General UHP (General is a sub-brand of Continental); the minority, of course, were General UHP owners. Those that bought the OEM Michelin Pilot Sport claimed that they could tell a difference on the street and those that bought the General UHP disagreed. One of the well-known members who is a professional engineer whupped out the physics and calculus and to show everybody that a 0.03 difference in lateral G at above 0.90g was not perceptible by humans so everybody was wasting their money on the OEM Michelins for street driving . Anyway, I started looking at the Sumitomo HTR Z III's, but my friendo gave me a ribbing about other P-car owners would disown me for putting a Japanese tire on a German car, LOL. If you read the test results from Tirerack.com, then you will see that the Sumitomo are pretty dang good. Then again, I started reading about Porsche's N-rating system and that is a big influence on my decision as well. ///Michael

Another good tire to consider for a less expensive alternative is the Hankook Ventus K104. i replaced my rear Pirelli P-zeros with these because I also wanted a longer lasting street tire (I have a 2nd set of wheels/tires for the track). I can get 2 of these for the price of 1 Pirelli. I also have 1 6 month old Pirelli P-zero Rosso I'd like to get out of my garage too.

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Yup, Ive always had PS Rib on my 02 911. I think they're outstanding both on the streets and track.

My tires don't match. I have BRIDGESTONE POTENZA RE050A on the rears and they are great.

It's 6pm Sat night and I'm bored. Since I'm a bit OCD, I've got some more input and things to ponder about. Given a tire size (i.e. 295/30-18), not all tires (Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli, etc.) are created equal. I got on Tirerack, selected all the Porsche N-rated tires for comparison, and saved the results to my web server. For kicks, I threw in the Sumitomo HTR Z III: linky, linky My observations (using tire sizes for my C4S): Tire Weight. For a set of 4 tires, it looks like the lightest to heaviest are: Pirelli - 48lbs/front & rear --> 96lbs/front & rear pair Michelin - 51lbs/front & rear --> 102lbs/front & rear pair Bridgestone - 52lbs/front & rear --> 104lbs/front & rear pair Sumitomo - 55lbs/front &r rear --> 110lbs/front & rear pair Continental - 57lbs/front & rear --> 114lbs/front & rear pair The difference in weight between the lightest (Pirelli) and the heaviest (Continental) may not be much (heck, when I take a dump, I lose 10lbs easy ), but this is rotation mass. I think every little bit counts if acceleration is your game. Tread Depth. The Bridgestones have the least tread depth, which probably explains why it has a 140 tread wear rating. Then again, the Pirellis also have a 140 tread wear rating and it has the full 10/32" of tread like the other tires (besides the Bridgestones). Overall Diameter. ALL the tires (brands and front or rear) have varying diameters. Revs Per Mile. Of course, overall diameter affects Revs Per Mile, which is a better indicator. Higher Revs Per Mile is a subtle and cheap way to lower gearing, but it affects the speedo and odometer; lower Revs Per Mile has the opposite affect (raises gearing). Likewise w/ Tire Weight, even w/ a subtle lower gearing, every little bit helps for the acceleration people. Country of Origin. Well, does anybody really care about this? I would love to see Tread Width specs as this is where the rubber meets the road, but almost all of the manufacturers in that comparo ain't sayin. Given all of this info, the Pirelli or Michelin would be the best choice, IMO, on paper for Porsche N-rated tires if money was no object. I base this out of Tire Weight, Revs Per Mile, and Tread Depth. Out of that two, my pick would be the Michelin because of Revs Per Mile and Tread Wear Rating. Coincidentally, I have the Michelin N1 on my C4S. No, I'm not biased, they were on the car when I bought it. Now knowing this info, I'm not complaining. Remember, the Sumitomo is the only non-Porsche N-rated tire I included in this comparo. If anybody else wants to see Michael's OCD trait, then I'll do comparisons on the other tires available for the C4S. Hell, I encourage everybody to do their own comparisons and pick the tire best for them based on their own thought process. ///Michael * I'm, by all means, no tire expert and this is just my analysis using my logic and my logic has been known to be weird and/or wrong at times.