996 engine failures - concern wiped out

I am a newbie owner of 1999 C2 manual with 50 tmiles. Owning the car has been a time full of joy and enjoyment of driving. However, there is many sad stories about engine failures on many 911 forums. This is what I did to never bother about the problem again. A new engine plus labor runs around 12.000 usd, right? This is the amount of money that I just put aside and forgot that I have it. I opened a bank account, named it "blowout account" and deposited the money there. I will use the money only if my engine fails or in case I sell the car / trade it in. Now it is done, I have a "full warranty" for my engine that will cost me nothing if nothing happens. If my engine blows up it is ok because the money is "allready spent for the engine exchange". I am going to enjoy my car the most I can, and IF my engine blows up, I will be a happy new engine owner, and continue enjoying the great car that I have. I am not sure if this psychological trick would work for others but for me it gives a peace of mind. Its great to own a 996 Porsche.

Good attitutde. I have a feeling for a lot of 99 owners out there doing this wouldn't be a psychological trick, but rather a financial one!

yes, good attitude... who knows, the money could go to your next Porsche!

First sensible (unemotional) thing I've heard said when it comes to "potential" engine failure. Congratulations and enjoy your car as much as I do!! Cheers Peter

Here - here I did exactly the same thing, I would LIKE to spend that money on other things, but I am not going to because IF it happens, I want my car back so I can drive her with a fresh motor !! There was a thread a couple weeks ago from a guy close to me who was towing his car home to put it in the garage because it was at the shop and needed a new mote, he didnt have the money and was going to store the car.... I am NOT going there... fix it, I want to drive it !!

Great attitude and solution - I'm sure it puts your concerns to rest. I've tried to post on this topic since becoming a 996 owner this past June and "losing" my engine less than a month later with 32k miles on the odo. (Failed intermediate shaft - '02 MKII.) I'd propose there are three distinct camps on RL (maybe more). Those who want to ignore the issue and sometimes shield concerns with humor - posting remarks like they all blow up. This isn't offensive to me, but it seems to mask the reality... I suppose that these folks are addressing the potential devaluation of our assets by trying to minimize the "internet hype" on 996 NA engine failures - this is a valid threat to resale value, I agree. So, not a bad strategy, but it does seem to veil the issue at hand. Those with a healthy attitude who accept the possibility, who are sincerely interested in understanding the potential problems, who don't mind discussing it in a less-than-sensationalistic manner, and who plan for the possibility with a warranty, a savings account, or a healthy attitude if it happens. This is the essence of the original poster's strategy, and intention with the post. Those who consistently worry about the problem, overstate the problem, and if/when something happens out of the blue - they react quite strongly. Admittedly, I failed to uncover the research before purchasing mine, my folly, but hey, you got what you got. When it's yours, you gotta figure out a way to live with it, or not... The world is NOT a terrible place, and this potential issue is NOT the end of the world - it's a relatively simple engine swap (perhaps a bit pricey but still a relative bargain by p-car standards). After spending WAY too much time on the boards, reading all the redundant threads on this issue, I still maintain that there's a significant failure rate and the causes aren't understood. From my research, it sounds like it's reasonably random and there's no obvious pattern emerging in the failures (again, only from my reading). I doubt a class action suit will ever come to fruition... So, my thoughts on how we address this are: Hedge your risk with a warranty or a savings account if that helps you sleep better at night Drive the cars often and vigorously If your worry outweighs the fun factor, then sell the darn thing... As for me, the fun I have with this car is absolutely unparalleled... I have no regrets and would do it again in a second.

Couldn't have said it better! Cheers Pete

To make myself feel better when I was looking I went for a 2 year powertrain warranty and an MkII 996 While the MkII is certainly still prone to engine failures they seem to be a little better. When the 2 years are up I am cool with the possibility that the engine could fail, not Happy but cool. There is NO sense in owning a car that is going to stress you out!!

1st, beautiful car. Any more pictures? Im not sure the financial state of Finland, but IMO its a good time to put money in mutual funds instead of a bank deposit. $12k is no small chunk of change. My '99 has 83k miles on the odometer, not sure if the motor was replaced previously.

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I think the MKII are more than a little less prone...while there are a few failures I have heard of, I haven't seen a MKII go over the last 6 months (from memory), while I have seen a fair number of MKI failure posts in that time. I think they fixed most of the problems with the MKII, but they are getting thrown in as problematic because of all the MKI failures. That being said, I have started to see some [posts on 997 failures of similar nature, so I know they never fixed everything. I find it interesting that in advertising the 997 MKII engine redesign, they come out and say it is the first real changes to the water cooled motor...and that the 997 engine wasn't really any different than the MKII motor (I know there are a few differences).

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next time you are at the dealer, ask the service guy to look, it took them less than a minute to say mine had not... when I asked how he knew, he pointed to several things that made it obvious to him...???? cool! I guess (kinda was hoping for the "other news") BTW 106k on the clock

+2. I had a spare "chunk of change" and put away money for a motor AND transmission in case I needed it.

Perhaps Porsche should mention it in an advertising campaign for the car? Porsche 996 - makes a great used car - just put an extra $12k-$14k in a spare bank account in case of engine failure...... Nope, can't see sane people really going for that one. Maybe I need one of these on the wall in my garage

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Safer than investing it recently -td

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I wish I'd have done that with ALL my money about 6 months ago.

72,000 miles on my 2004 C4S Cab... I bought it new in 2004... zero issues. Eat me.

My financial loses are more than a blown engine anyway. Putting the money in a bank would have been wise.

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Hell, my stock market losses are making the depreciation on the 996 look reasonable! We all should have put our money into more P-cars!

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BTDT. You know it really wouldn't be so bad if Porsche didn't make replacement the only option. But they are so tight-assed about things involving engine failure, and post-mortems, that there is no realistic rebuild option in the U.S. I miss my 996 but wish that I'd sold it prior to dumping 10k into a new motor for what was, most likely, a broken valve spring.

I didn't pursue an aftermarket warranty for my 996 and I refuse to fret over engine issues that are uncommon. If repairs are needed in the future, so be it. 911 40th.

Well, I'm the guy who hauled it off. The bill to replace he engine in the Pacific North West is at least $13K, more when you add replacement hoses, clean out the oil from the cooling system, and recharge the A/C. Hopefully the market will recover before the spring thaw.

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Well done. Now if we could just have a poll to back this up...

Seems a bit extreme. Buy an extended warranty if you're that worried about it.

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Got it home OK? I feel bad, i know its a huge chunk of change to shell out...like they say "you better really like that car!" One reason some of us DONT have coverage is it is not offered, I tried to get mine covered AFTER I learned of some history, but with the year and miles, the best I can get is something completely worthless... trust me i read what was covered, that wont help......... IF the car has <100k miles you can get it covered, and I would........right away..... but my only choice is to bank the cash and hope to not need it too soon... GL on yours!!

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The gorvernment quarantees savings up to 50.000 euros here. Our bank system works a bit different way than in the U.S. Bank deposit is safe. More pictures coming when the sun shines next time. It may take months... It is not possible to buy an extended warranty from Porsche for my car. I do have a warranty for one year from Fragus.com. However it only covers up to 3.000 euros per defect. An extended warranty from Porsche requires that the warranty has been purchased every year after manufacturers warranty stops. The previous owner did not purchase it making it impossible for me to purchase it now.

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Touche - Seriously, I think I've got it out of my system, that will be my last response on engine failures,

Great idea. Beautiful car!

I had planned this budgeting all along when I bought mine. Instead, I had $10k on mod/engine money set aside and continued to save. Two years later, the $10K was spent on mods and refilled it with engine replacement money. I thought its the norm when buying used cars without a warranty. It would have cost me $3k to buy an aftermarket warranty and I rather find a good Indy and decide how the money would be spent.

I think that one is either worried about an engine failure or not; I don't follow how sticking $12k in an account and pretending to forget about it is going to make anyone worry any more or less than they already did. I mean, you either have the money to replace the engine or you don't, and psychologically, I don't see why it would matter where it comes from if it comes down to that. Anyway, I have a similar approach...if my (second) engine blows, I'll decide whether I want to replace it or not. Which account I get the money from will do absolutely nothing to lessen any possible blow. Sorry, not trying to be hard on you, but I think people overthink this engine thing sometimes.

Sorry ahead of time for the comments, but I just couldn't resist. Reading this post and not having a Porsche makes it have a totally different spin. I cannot believe that we (me included) buy these cars with the knowledge the motor is likely to blow. I mean, who buys a car these days and creates a seperate account for a new motor?? Costly maintenance I can understand, but a blown motor account for a car that may only have 60,000 miles on the clock? Crazy! It's just a crying shame that Porsche builds such a crappy motor. It just seems to me that they SHOULD be able to out-do Toyota on quality and reliability. They build way less cars and have much more time to devote to creating/planning a vehicle and quality control to build it. Not to mention the 911 has been made for some 30 odd years. There are no excuses for not perfecting it by now. Then they hide/ignore/don't own up to the problems when they occur. Pitiful if you ask me, just pitiful .

I have almost 119k on my original motor and it runs great. No worries here. Everyone should have 6-12 months of living expenses in an emergency fund anyway. If you don't have money put away in a liquid account, ready to go for costly emergencies, then you shouldn't be driving expensive used cars - simple as that.

why not buy a 993...a top end is less..its a better car..ok ..i am joking..or am i?

Anyone hear any CREDIBLE feedback on the LN Engineering (USA) engine remanufactures? Word is the AutoFarm and Hartech (sp?) reman engines are proving to be robust (UK). Thoughts?

I had a 99 C2 so I'm not knocking the car....but this talk of setting aside an additional $10-12K as an engine replacement fund "just in case" would seem to be better served if you took the extra money and purchased a newer car with the 3.6L engine...which you could do for a lot less that $12K, and not have the potential (note "potential") anxiety over the alleged reliability issues....maybe my logic suffers...??

This thread is starting to sound like a politics discussion in OT

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Nice try! I believe that the use of "logic" gets you banned here.

The problem is with the m96 engine, whether in 3.4 or 3.6, is the design itself is flawed. Porsche cheaped out on critical components, particularly in bearings (both design and numbers) leading to a high potential for premature failures. While my engine failed at 126k miles, it should not have given the engine technology of today. Compare that, in stark contrast, with the GT2/3 and TT engines, which still use the old 993 block and have very low failure rates. The simple fact of the matter is that Porsche cut corners to produce the 986 engines that they then used in the 996/997 cars to reduce costs even further thereby increasing profitability. While I appreciate that the non-GT/TT cars were significantly cheaper, I'd rather have had a more reliable and bulletproof powerplant and paid an additional 10k on the front end as a known cost that would have paid dividends in resale down the road. And 3d party warranties are a whole new bag of scary possibilities and risks. I don't believe that I would buy a non-manufacturer warranty, ever. They simply have too many 'outs' to paying a claim and you don't know whether they will even be in business a year after you buy their coverage. If you want a warranty, pay for a good one or just put the money in the bank.

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Which is exactly what the OP did.

Wow! Sounds like you have money to burn.. that's great for the economy, thanks.. Seriously, what if you sell the car and use those 12K for a car that is newer and maybe certified with extended warranty.. I think that is money better spend

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Yes, they build a lot fewer cars than Toyota, but something tells me that that doesn't translate to more man-hours available for QC and engineering. "Fewer cars" doesn't translate to "guys just standing around with nothing to do".

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I agree. Oh and my 1999's C2 motor packed it in with 23K on the clock FWIW.

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Yes, it is pitiful. However, they have built a couple of new motors for the 911. They are just now hitting the marketplace in the 997.2 (or 997.5 if you prefer) facelift cars. The 3.6L motor gets a 20 HP gain, now at 345 HP, while the 3.8L motor gets 30 HP increase, which takes it up to 385 HP. Both engines redline at 7,500 RPM. The completely new motors: do not have an intermediate shaft have 40% fewer engine components have a water pump the pushes 20% more volume and is mounted outside the engine for easier service are fitted with DFI (direct fuel injection) do not require a secondary air-injector system like the 996 and early 997 motors are more fuel efficient (sorry, I don't recall the percent improvement) Obviously, it is way too early to know if these engines will be more bullet-proof than their predecessors. However, Porsche did see the inherent problems with the 996 engines and have developed a successor.

I think you made a good choice to put money in reserve. Reduces worry. Using that money to buy a new car just puts you into a vehicle with higher depreciation. That is an enormous price to pay for peace of mind. Talking to a fellow who bought a vintage airplane, he noted that the sale price turned out to be merely the price of admission....far from the total cost of ownership. Cars, airplanes, horses....the cost of acquisition may just be one small part of the pie. Can you go with a "more dependable" car? Of course, there are many sewing machines running around. Some are pretty quick. Usually, the performance is modest...which means there's less stress put on the components....which increases reliability. Since I was a kid, the rule has been, the higher the power/performance, the higher the maintenance. (Taken to extremes, consider the high performance dragsters that run for maybe 30-60 seconds before needing a full rebuild.) If you have stretched your budget just to buy a high performance sports car, then you will almost certainly be angry and disappointed over time. Treating a car as "aspirational" or "conspicuous consumption" is a recipe for sad times. Having owned a variety of cars over the years (just a few include: '65 Austin Healy 3000, '59 MGA, '67 Ferrari 275 GTS, '67 Fiat Dino {with the Ferrari engine}, '65 356SC, '51 Kurtis {open-wheel Indy racer converted to the street--on many of those engines, you had to drain the oil after each use so you could pre-warm it before putting it back in the engine just to start it !}). At one time, it was said that the Porsche factory would give you a gold watch of recognition if your 356 got to 100,000K without needing a rebuild. Think of it. They would give you formal recognition if your car would just make it to 63,000 miles. (obviously, that was fairly unusual at the time) Porsches are still one of the most reliable, high performance cars I've ever seen. Especially with some of the Ferrari's, you know they are high wear engines, so you anticipate that it will need an engine rebuild every 20,000mi....at a cost of $6,000 - $20,000. Drive it gingerly and you might get 25,000miles before rebuild. Some of the English cars I've owned, you Never took a trip without a full set of components so you could rebuild the engine while you were away if you needed to. I suppose all of this is a matter of perspective, but it's easy to forget just how good, largely dependable and Liveable (!) these cars are on a daily basis. Few cars can be pleasant around town, on a trip, and still perform so well at the track. Can you have fun in a lower-performing car? Of course. And some people whose income comes close to their expenses, would be well-advised to do so. Having cash in reserve is simply prudent....and you are more likely to end up with more of it in your pocket some years from now if you take good care of your car than if you spend it on an extended warranty which may or may not cover future problems you encounter. (Yes....I know that some failures seem unrelated to use & care. Some failures....I have reason to believe, were actually related to people being creative with their engine oils and/or running the engine hard before fully warm. Not naming names. Personally, I don't care if my temp guage has just reached operating temps....I don't run it hard until everything is really warmed up and running well.) Anyway, good idea to have some cash in reserve. Adds peace of mind to the simple enjoyment of driving your car. Happy trails.

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Well, its great that after 10+ years they took action! Thats just swell!

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Take a look at car prices in Finland and freak out. Note that the prices are in euros ( one euro is about 1.25 usd) Here are a couple of examples on 1999 models: http://www.nettiauto.com/2139486 http://www.nettiauto.com/2140138 http://www.nettiauto.com/2006466 Here a bit newer (2002): http://www.nettiauto.com/2205478 http://www.nettiauto.com/1815965 This is the cheapest 2005 model on the market in Finland http://www.nettiauto.com/2225231 My pointi is that 12 USD will not be even close enough to upgrade from a 1999 3.4 engine to a car with a newer 3.6 engine. And arent those 3.6. engines prone to fail as well?

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Those prices = OUCH!!!!