Track pics

Last weekend was my first track weekend with the Porsche. I had done about 15 track days with my previous ride, S54 BMW M Coupe, which I just sold last friday (man will I miss that car ). I am very pleased with the Porsche. I am surprised by how well behaved the car is on the limit (I have heard horror stories of 911s, probably this applies more to older cars), even with PSM off. Compared with the M coupe with coilovers and slicks, I thought the C4S is easier to drive on the limit. I have stock tires and suspension, that is probably the reason why it was so forgiving. BTW, this was in Thunderhill. Richard

Looks Great! I love seeing 996 owners taking their cars to the track. If I were you, I would consider getting the 3M clear bra for your car, and have it installed over your headlights. That way, you will not have to waste any of your time taping your car up (and removing it) on track days.

The C4S is a wonderful track car, particularly for the learning driver. Vey forgiving with mistakes, but very rewarding when driven well. I've been tracking mine since I bought it new 3 years ago, and the car and I have matured together. Give it a few more track runs, and you won't miss that M3 coupe at all. The blue tape is cute, but totally unnecessary. Stone chips and what-not occur on the highways to and from the track, not on the track. Unless you follow somebody into the dirt. Stoneguard tape/clear bra is a matter of preference/taste, but you don't really need it for track use. Personally, it reminds me of putting plastic over a sofa. Iv'e never been to Thunderhill, but I hear it's a great track. Just the name makes me want to go there. Thunderhill. Great name.

Just what the hell is wrong with plastic covered couches? Seriously though, the plastic bra has saved me numerous chips -- maybe I just ride the tails of others more than you? In any event, I am counting the days until Mid-Ohio and watching the Mid-Ohio School tape incessently . . . P.S. The pic in my signature shows my car with the invisible bra, which truly is invisible.

Palting...that is the WORST analogy you could make. You missed the mark big time. Let me help you out with you analogy: A clearbra is like scotch guard on a couch. One of those cheap vinyl bra's would be the analogy you were going for.

LOL!!! Apologies if I hit a nerve . I know a lot of you do the clear bra bit, That's why I prefaced my statement with "matter of preference" and ended it with "Personally,....". Anyway, the statement I want to go down is that you don't need stone chip protection for track use. Stone chips occur mostly on the highways. C'mon, guys. Just stating what I think. I know it can get me in trouble, though. Like, hey, what's with the folded taco rear wing I see in a lot of 996's? Is it to distract your attention from the plastic cover on the bumper? Uh-oh, I guess now I'm dead.

Oh Palting, you are quite the comedian No nerve hit, just helping you out with your analogy skills. You are right though, clearbra's are like tyres and exhaust notes.....everybody has a personal preference.

Humor keeps us healthy. Hey, I just fully read TD's note. Maybe I get less stone chips 'cuz I'm always leading? To get it back on the topic, great pics, Richard. What year is your C4S? And does that orange square on the bumper denote your run-group?

Oh, so you are one of those guys who drives slowly through the corners and uses horsepower on the straights to keep everyone behind you. LEARN THE POINTBY!

Looking for some historical clarification: Why the point-by and not the one-click turn signal to indicate passing side? We have the point-by as well out here in Vegas and I hate it! Can't stand to take my hands off the wheel for that. Wouldn't it be easier to just reach your index finger forward and inch and quick signal as most of the world does it?

Naaah, the C4S is the car that usually rotates so well around a corner 'cuz it's weight is not all on top like a Targa . The HP for the straight is just a bonus for getting further away from the others. I usually don't need to give a point by. I can see how you are probably well experienced with it, though Interesting about the turn signal point by. I've had a few do that. Obvious what they meant, but that wasn't in the rules. It certainly would be a better way to do it since, as you say, you don't have to take your hand off the wheel.

I use a vinyl bra on mine for track days, by the time I thought about it, I already had a few zings in the nose so for me a clear bra was a waste. The PDE at Barber uses turn signals just so you don't trake your hand off the wheel. Just did Limerock, my next will probably be Watkins' Glen. See you there!

Its a 2003. The orange square denotes that I am new to Golden Gate Region PCA events. The yellow sticker on the top right windshield denotes my run group. Actually, I already do have VentureShield clear bra on the car The club requires me to use the tape as well, I don't know why Yes Thunderhill is a blast. It is one of the most fun track I have been (I have been to Nelson Ledges, Mid-Ohio, BeaveRun, Putnam Park, Laguna Seca in the M Coupe) This was my second time in Thunderhill.

Don't forget your brake points and go into a turn too fast! Thunderhill Turn 8...which isn't really a turn...more like a bend.

Kirby, That is a great sequence of photos! At least you kept 4 wheels on and nobobdy was behind you! TD

You're my hero! 15 track days and you've already done all these tracks. One iof these days I may just go cross country to try as many tracks as I can. BTW, you need to upgdate your username. 3 of the 5 tracks are in my neck of the woods. Putnam is not that far away either. I just came from BeaveRun this weekend. Did you just recently move to sunny CA?

What do you mean by updating my username? I am confused Thanks.

Maybe my mistake, but I take rxt27 to mean a turbo rx7. There's an SCCA racer in my neck of the woods who drives a turbo RX7 that can chase down AND PASS racing Vipers. How about enlightening me on your current username?

looks like you had a great time. did you do the DE or just the HighSpeedDrivingSchool? i was bummed cause i was bumped from HSDS and put on the waiting list. never got the call. oh well. next time i'll sign up for the full DE since those places are filled first then the HSDS spots are filled. see you next DE.

oh ya, did you ever get the harness thing figured out? i am in the process of getting a race seat, harness bar and harnesses.

Holy cow Kirb! I would have had to change my drawers after that! Great pics. Who took them?

You know...I never could understand this thing many of you have about the clear bra...everytime I read about someone doing a clear bra I just put my head down on my desk and breath deep...I just don't get it. ...wait...wait...I have it it now...a vision is appearing... Just shrink wrap the car. Its cheaper. Its removable and everything would be protected...great idea don't you think? Now a clear bra for Pamela Anderson...that would be a great idea! If she doesn't like the clear bra then I would be happy to, among other things, shrink wrap her. Fine print: the aforementioned opinions expressed are the views of the author and do not represent the views of those who, in fact, know what the heck they are talking about!!

I actually tried the normal bra first and found it difficult to remove (some things never change), and even more painful to install (I have never wanted to install a bra of any kind). I didn't like having to deal with the bra in our climate, where we get condensation at night and rain on some track days. It makes me paranoid to keep a bra on in wet situations -- better that it come off, and promptly. The clear bra is invisible (which is always good when you are referring to bras) and requires no thought (which, again, is a good thing when dealing with bras). It has already prevented damage to my beauty!

http://www.gotbluemilk.com/ There were hired at the track event. I just happened to spin out right were they were set up. WAIT! I PLANNED IT! YEA! that's it! It was planned!

Actually, I've never been to T-hill when some rocks weren't kicked onto the track by an off or someone clipping a turn too tight. It often happens in Turn 8...Kirby that could be your new excuse (you were lucky, that's a fast turn (~90 mph) and I've seen cars go off and roll there or go up the hill and get major damage). I don't like the clear bra's either. Most look like crap after a few years and sometimes they get dirt under the edges. I'd rather risk a few chips to the paint.

I bought the Brey Krause harness bar (R-1029 instead of R-1030 cos I have Bose sound system), with Schroth 6 point harness. I use stock seat. So I would actually sit on the bottom belts. Kind of tight on the crouch area, but I got so drawn into the driving that I don't actually feel the "uncomfortableness." I can post pics for you tomorrow if you want.

Well, rxt27 is the email address that I got when I was in undergraduate school. My initials are rt, x means no middle name. 27 means I am number 27 with the initials rxt. Since then, I have been using this username everywhere. hehe, nothing to do with RX7 Palting,I think we have met before down in Beaverun. I had my blue BMW there and you had the C4S. We talked about me really loving your car. Remember? Well I was from OH. I moved to CA in Jan 2004. Nice to talk to you again.

that would be great! i am getting ready for the next DE and was wondering about getting a harness bar or a roll bar. i have enough mods in my car to be in production class but still a little confused about the production class rules. i am at the very least getting a race seat. the stock porsche ones really suck.

Karlooz, do a search on harness bars, there was a good discussion on the racing forum. Basically they are dangerous, you need a a roll bar with a 6 point harness or leave it stock. I like to use my bra at the track, I don't care for the clear bra coatings. The worst thing that ever happened at the track was a window chip that I think may have occured after the track repaved some corners, there was a lot of debris flying that weekend. Three cars were damaged, two windshields including a CGT...

i saw that thread. i guess i have to read it again cause what i got out of it was that a roll bar increases the likelihood of a head injury if not using a helmet. since my car is 99% street then i thought it would be safer to use a harness bar. here's a snippet... "INSTALLING A ROLLBAR IN A VEHICLE THAT IS REGULARLY DRIVEN ON THE STREET (A DAILY DRIVER) SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES THE LIKELIHOOD OF SEVERE HEAD INJURY IN EVEN A MINOR ACCIDENT FOR THE 99% OF THE TIME THAT THE CAR IS NOT ON THE TRACK. SINCE ROLLBARS ARE TYPICALLY INSTALLED WITHIN 6" OF THE BACK OF THE HEADREST THERE IS A HIGH LIKELIHOOD OF HEAD CONTACT WITH THE ROLLBAR IN EVEN A MINOR TRAFFIC ACCIDENT AS THE SEAT BACK FLEXES WHEN THE BODY REBOUNDS INTO THE SEAT BACK. ROLLBAR PADDING - EVEN HIGH DENSITY PADDING IS DESIGNED ONLY TO WORK WITH HELMETS AND PROVIDES VERY LITTLE PROTECTION TO AN UN-HELMETED HEAD." although, if i get a roll bar and use seat back bracing then the likelihood of a head injury caused by the rollbar would significantly decrease BUT i think the wife would appreciate it none too much if i changed her stock seat (passenger) to a racing bucket.

Let me attempt to summarize what I have been told regarding this subject down to one or two sentences: 1. View your car as an entire safety "system" that should work together rather than viewing the merits of individual pieces of safety hardware. 2. Ideally, there are two basic types of safety systems. The first contains the following components: 1) Roll bar or cage; 2) 6 point harness; 3) race seat; and 4) helmet. This system is designed to keep your body firmly in place (upright) where it is protected against crushing in the event of a rollover by the rollbar or cage. The second contains the following components: 1) no roll bar or cage; 2) stock 3 point belts; 3) stock seats; and 5) no helmet (of course a helmet is always safer but this "system" was designed based on the assumption of no helmet). This system is designed to allow your body to move (within a specifically designed range) so that you can remain within the safe area (which is greatly reduced from the normal passenger area) that results after the roof crushes in the event of a roll bar. Every problem I have heard of results from mixing the two systems. For example, if you use a roll bar or cage without a full harness, your body can move around in the stock seat/three point harness (as it was designed to do) such that your head comes into contact with a very hard object (i.e., the roll bar) that the designer did not ever assume would be in the safe area to begin with. As such, you might have a much larger safe area than you would have had without the roll bar, but your head is broken apart like an egg because you put a hard object into the "movement zone"). The other example that I have heard is using a six point harness without a roll bar. You have just prevented your body from moving the way the designers intended it to move, so your head may remain "upright" and "outside" of the safe area when the car rolls and the roof crushes down. Actually, the safety guys at the track say that the most gruesome injuries they have seen have occured when people use six point harnesses without roll bars (think decapitation or near decapitation). Hope that "brief" explanation helps, even though I failed in my goal of two or three sentences.

My comments pertain to track use, but unless you are going to trailer the car you will have to deal with the roll bar to and from the track. Roll bars can cause severe head injury on the street, even if they are padded. The problem with a harness bar is you will be trapped into the seats upon impact and will not be able to slide out of the way of a collapsing roof. I would not use a harness bar by itself. The best (safer) solution would be a bolt in Das roll bar and 6 point harness, haul the bar in your support vehicle and bolt the bar in at the track.

Well said TD.

so as a mostly street machine you could do: race seat, 3 point belts (gotta have the seat cause the oem sucks) or race seat, 6 point harness, roll bar and never a harness bar with either case so are you making do with the stock seats and belts?

Yes, that sounds like a reasonable compromise to me. I would probably go with the first option on the street. For me, yes, I am making do with stock seats and belts for the time being. Very frustrating, I know, but safety first.

support vehicle? ha that's funny . the support vehicle IS my 996 . the das bar sounds like a suitable alternative if it can be easily removed. i'll have to check into it. i have also seen redlineman's proto roll bar. it doesn't encroach into the driver compartment at all so it is as far away as possible from the driver's head. redline rollbar

GT3 seats and stock belts would do just fine. I'm still using stock seats and belts too, and I run in the white run group, which is a problem. The problem is at these speeds I really need a roll bar and I'm trying to decide what to do. Either a roll bar/ 6 point harness/tow to the track or back off the track for a while.

Yes, we've met. I remember the blue BMW M coupe in BeaveRun . I think I even have a pic of it somewhere. And you got a C4S! Congratulations on an excellent choice!! No bias on my comment, of course . You'll be passing M coupes in that in no time, if you aren't already. Now you can go 12 months of the year to the track in sunny CA. I'm still jockeying for position among all these other winter track-deprived dudes for space on the track.