28 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHtune difference after mods?
Reported or suspected cause
increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
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Reported cause
The larger motor, whether the displacement increase was due to an increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently with a given head and cam combination than the stock motor, which affects the VE of the motor and how it is fueled.
Leading evidence: 'increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Install tune 3/4 of the way through the modifications' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Install tune 3/4 of the way through the modifications
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I installed the tune 3/4 of the way through the modifications.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
He began working with another tuner, who found an OEM file for a special edition 986 than ran the 987 airbox, but they weren't able to get results with that.
Replace displacement of the engine has a major impact
Suggestion or failed attempt
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0
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0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Suggestion
However, changing the displacement of the engine has a major impact on performance.
Replace maf calibration in the ecu resulted in something
Suggestion or failed attempt
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Suggestion
Changing the MAF housing without changing the MAF calibration in the ECU resulted in something that ran like garbage, if at all.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
He began working with another tuner, who found an OEM file for a special edition 986 than ran the 987 airbox, but they weren't able to get results with that.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The car is constantly chasing its tail trying to run correctly, which means that the sharpness, smoothness, and consistency of performance is not there.
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Suggestion
The MAF sensor and housing together are an extremely precise instrument, and is responsible for the reading that allows the ECU to make all of its load calculations to run the motor.
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0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The ECU has oxygen sensors and knock sensors to help it adapt, and at a bare minimum these setups run not _bad_ but also not really that great, either.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
The larger motor, whether the displacement increase was due to an increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently with a given head and cam combination than the stock motor, which affects the VE of the motor and how it is fueled.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
28 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T222516Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
I put a catless xpipe, GT3 TB, intake & IDP Plenum drove it for a while and then put the tune so I could see the difference. I dont notice any difference at all so I dont know if its done anything or not. I asked the company and they more or less said I wont see it because of the mods, ok good you took my money and asked which mods I have to tune for and now after you tell me that it wont do anything because of the mods.
So I am curious if anyone has done these type of mods and then did a tune afterwards did you actually see a difference? I didnt expect miracles based on what i read but really I cant say I see anything at all.
The other thing that seemed very strange to me is that the tune took less than 2 mins, every other car I have done these things on has taken much longer than that so it seems to me whatever is modified must be tiny.
Any OBDII tune I've ever gotten (b5 S4, N54 e92 backend flash) only took a couple minutes.
That being said, a tuner should definitely be able to tune your car for the mods it has. EVO MS did mine and I am very happy. See my thread on my lost DME just below this one today.
A lot of these aftermarket mods are snake oil. People seen to forget that Porsche engineers did a really good job at getting the most out of an engine and it takes a ton of money to get any real noticeable hp gains.
Good luck with another tune. Maybe you'll get something out of it.
Evoms did my tune.
I installed the tune 3/4 of the way through the modifications.
I live in upstate NY, where there are very few dynos available.
I have had planned on doing the dyno at Fabspeed, but they no longer sell Evomsit tunes, they have thier own now.
Evoms said , for best results, I should dyno now, they can tweak the tune based on real data from my engine, then do a few more dyno pulls for final evaluation.
I have 3.6 , IPD comp plenum, gt3 throttle body, kline long tube headers, 200 cell X pipe and Tubi Style mufflers.
also Asco LWFW, Sachs stage II sprung clutch, Tarret X51 oil baffle, RSS underdrive pulley and RSS mounts.
The car pulls very well, but after all this, I want to make sure I am getting the best bang for my buck.
Ha! I live in Syracuse. You should come drive mine and we can compare. I did my evo tune separately before my mods and I can promise it added throttle response, some power some torque and smoothness, then it all just got better when I added the other stuff like you have.
Yeah, I would totally log some WOT pulls or hit the dyno in Jersey with me and log there and see what EVO can do for you.
I mean it's not a crazy difference, we're talking like 10 hp and 10 ft/lbs, but I feel good about mine even when it was tune only.
A couple of my buddies have full VAG COMs, so we should be able to log it.
you have learned what most knew and a few hold outs refuse to accept. There is not much left in the M96 motor that Porsche didnt all ready put in there. The motor breathes as good as it can from the factory.
On a car like the OP's, our tune would add 10-12whp and 8-10wtq over stock, looking simply at the peak increases on the dyno chart.
However, the I feel the bigger benefit, especially on a car running the plenum/throttle body/headers/cats, is that a proper tune like our Stage 3 or 4 file fixes the low end throttle response/driveability and gets rid of two dips/hesitations in the powerband that occur around 2500 and 4000rpm with a tune not designed for those upgrades. It makes the car simply drive properly--throttle response is nice and crisp and the engine pulls all the way through the rev band, like it's supposed to. You pick up a little power as well, but the improvement in behavior rather than just speed/power is the best reason to tune a modified Carrera, IMO.
Sam
Great explaining Sam
My stage IV tune is working really well.
The revs climb so fast now, but I still want you guys to review dyno results if I can it on one.
BTW, Sam and the crew are great to work with.
David D.
still slower than my 2+ golf R..... lol but I don't care. I would have bought a 996tt if I was only after speed. The driving experience of my 996 is amazing. I still smile after 1 year and 11,000 miles of ownership
The CLA45 we have is also faster but doesn't get kids taking photos of it on the highway like the 996 does haha, nor does the driving experience compare to the 996...
I'm curious about a flash tune as well as i'd like to add 200cel x-pipe and headers but wonder if I'd need a tune if I had these. My car already has IPD 74mm, cargraphic mufflers and a cargraphic under drive pulley.
Hurmmm
the advice I got from the greats around here during my upgrade in displacement was NOT to tune the car. The porsche ECU could easily handle it and most tuners would do more bad than good to the car. if the ECU can handle a bump in displacement like that, I'm sure it would have no problem with bolt on mods.
I work with several customers who have been told this by various engine builders around the country.
On a basic level, the car will run and drive
ok
with the stock ECU running a larger displacement motor. The MAF sensor will detect the engine is consuming more air than it would if it was stock, and it has a range of high load cells that will prevent the engine from running lean for the most part (many of these actually run too rich). The ECU has oxygen sensors and knock sensors to help it adapt, and at a bare minimum these setups run not _bad_ but also not really that great, either. The car is constantly chasing its tail trying to run correctly, which means that the sharpness, smoothness, and consistency of performance is not there. It works, but it's not a real solution.
However, changing the displacement of the engine has a major impact on performance. '100%' load on an enlarged motor is a different figure than it is on a smaller displacement stock motor, which factors into things like idle control, traction control, etc. The larger motor, whether the displacement increase was due to an increase in bore or stroke, will breathe differently with a given head and cam combination than the stock motor, which affects the VE of the motor and how it is fueled. The different bore size or stroke/rod geometry affects the relationship of piston position vs. crank angle, which affects ignition timing. Etc. etc, lots of complex relationships that go into the underlying ECU calculations that can't really fully be 'adapted to'.
We have seen people botch either the tuning or adaption of a displacement increase into another car. The first that comes to mind is a 986 customer I'm dealing with. He went from a 3.2L to a 3.8L motor built by one of the large, well known engine builders in the country. This builder went ahead and installed a 987 airbox in the car, and told the customer that 'it would adapt'. The 987 airbox has a much larger MAF housing than the stock 986 intake uses. The MAF sensor and housing together are an extremely precise instrument, and is responsible for the reading that allows the ECU to make all of its load calculations to run the motor. Changing the MAF housing without changing the MAF calibration in the ECU resulted in something that ran like garbage, if at all. He began working with another tuner, who found an OEM file for a special edition 986 than ran the 987 airbox, but they weren't able to get results with that. After working with him for some time, we figured out that special OEM software version was from a car equipped only with PSM, and his car did not have it. We finally got him on the correct OEM file with an OEM MAF calibration to work with the airbox his engine builder blindly threw at the car, and with a proper tune to go with it on the 3.8L engine, the car runs awesome finally.
Sam
Something with that tune doesn't seem to be right, every one of my 996/997 clients I set up with a tune is blown away by the results. Shooting you a PM, lets see what we can figure with who tuned your ECU and how we can make it better.
I would love to get my car tuned for the 4.0 in displacement it has now but I don't know or trust anyone in the area with my motor. I know what good tuning can do to a car, especially with driveability. The very 1st thing I did with my WRX was get it tuned. 100% stock engine wise and the tune made a night and day difference in every department, especially in driveability. idle was more stable, power came on earlier and stayed on later, much smoother throughout the power band.
Until someone can convince me they can successfully tune my car I will have to listen to the advice I was given. It's driving great now, so I don't want to mess with it.
I don't have any contacts in Ottawa or Gatineau, but EK Performance in Montreal or Rombotis Tuning in Laval, QC are good shops who could assist in tuning if you pursued it. We work remotely with both, though Mike Rombotis does his own tuning as well and knows what he is doing.
Sam
