Sold my 2003 C4S - love/hate relationship

Well, I kept my 1995 993, but sold my 2003 C4S with 80 K miles with hesitation and while it was in perfect working order. 6 years of ownership on C4S and the highlights: -Awesome looking car -Great handling car making me feel extremely safe in all weather -Adequate power -Good fit and finish -Excellent braking - original brakes even with with 4 track events and 80K plus -Maintenance issues - new ignition coils packs all around, 2 catalytic converters, new oil separation tube, 2 new horns, 3 rear main seals, 2 Intermediate shaft seals, new clutch bearing (did clutch plate while we were in there, CEL (2X) - 2 new O2 sensors, new oil filler tube. While I hated to trade this great looking car ( on a 2005 SL 65 AMG - which has its share of issues I am sure to discover), I truly believe the intermediate shaft bearing was not going to hold up long term and even contemplated a bearing upgrade, but came to the conclusion that the IShaft set-up was not engineered properly, i.e. new engine design in 2009 without Ishaft, and there was not a real viable solution to leaking RMS/ISS seals since Porsche designed an engine that basically was a high cost to maintain, if it held up. They did step up to the plate every time with the warranty covering all the costs. The expiration of the warranty, lack of confidence in this car's durability and high cost of an extended warranty turned me off to the car in the end. The main thing also was the time in the shop for repairing the RMS/ISS issues which would have continued in my estimation as this particular car probably was always going to have this issue. The Ishaft was not able to be aligned in the right manner in the way it was designed - too weak, which Porsche should have corrected immediately instead of the bandaid fixes it atempts/ed................ but as those who have worked for German companies know (plus 20 years), "they may not be right, but they are never wrong......" Pretty stubborn culture with superiority complex in a nutshell..... The 993 has not been a high maintenance machine, just routine maintenance costs and the engineering superior to the 996, as far as durability concerns in my case. I have confidence that I can take that car anywhere (as long as I have a DME relay in the glovebox). So.....I still am a Porsche loyalist (to a slighter degree), but now will see how the "dark side" operates.....the Benz SL is an engineering masterpiece albeit complex, but ahead of their time, as all high-end cars are being engineered in a more complicated manner to meet market demands, i.e. Panamera

Bet the new owner will be in shock !

This issue has at least some effect on the prices of 996's. If someone is buying a used 996 they are getting a market discount for the additional risk of the M96. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

Thanks for posting - although I hated to read it and in a million years I would not buy that SL65, good luck to you - hope it treats you well

Quotes source post: 6840978

New owner could end up with pretty nice car. Original owner got them all sorted out. Co-worker some years back picked up a nice high performance car for a very good price with just 200 miles on the car. Original owner dumped car after valve spring broke. Even after engine fixed she didn't want car back. Dealer worked out something. Co-worker bought car with the remainder of its full warranty in effect. Car developed lots of problems. Every one fixed under warranty. Warranty ended at 36K miles and he drove it to almost 100K miles with no other problems. Traded it in when he bought a late model M3. But I can undertstand the original poster's sentiment and feelings regarding the car. Sincerely, Macster.

2 new horns?!

About the RMS, I just had mine replaced by the dealership under warranty. The advisor informed me that this was a new type of seal (chemical composition or quality I don't know). Did yours failed over and over again because they were the 1st gen seal or did you finally got the upgraded type but were done with messing with it? To anyone out there... Is there such thing as a new gen seal or is the dealer just trying to make me feel better?

Quotes source post: 6841659

FWIW: My '04 Boxster S needed 2 horns. One in April 2008 and the other in November 2008.

Even speaking as someone that's on their second engine, I think you're just being paranoid. Just sayin'...

Quotes source post: 6841678

There IS such a thing as a new gen seal. My 02 C4S was fitted with it in 07 when the RMS was seeping ... been dry since.

I have the latest and greatest seals, and and they're leaking again, for the thrid time. It's a design issue coupled with a manufacturing QA issue. I truly believe some cannot be fixed.

Some comments on the responses to date...... -Apparently the location of the horns on the 4S and lots of rain don't mix well and the two horns that the car has were replaced under warranty. - As far as the RMS seals.....dealer used new updated seals with no success...I also did not baby the car as a daily driver and at track events. Maybe that had something to do with the leaks....combined with the poor design of that area of the M96...... - There is a big difference between "paranoid" and "wise through experience"...but that comment really made me laugh pretty good )) - As far as comment on not buying a SL65 in a million years, that was cool, as I always said I would never buy a Benz, but once I spoke to previous owner, surveyed service records, low 20K miles, etc.and drove the car on a track it converted me pretty quickly...... I totally appreciate the good luck wishes and will probably need the luck, as with any car..... - Luckily I was very meticulous with the servicing and I hope the next owner of the C4s gets a great car at a decent price..... - Another motivator was the financials......the trade-in with those miles on the 4S at a MB dealer was pretty good at 40K, about 14k over trade-in value (offered to me the same week on a 997 Turbo at a Porsche dealer)......saved 10k versus the kbb on the SL at $65K and a ton versus the original $ 193K original sticker in 2005 and got all the goodies of a car in that class......... Thanks for the responses to my post, as always, as this site's forums are the best available for Porsche owners IMHO........

Rock on... good reply's I wondered if I would ruffle your feather... glad I did not and seriously... best of luck on the new and the 993... no one needs a headache, especially someone who has already had one

Thanks for good wishes......it was just getting to be a pain with the 4S when PMS and ISS leaks came up consistenly the last three oil changes - 5,000 miles apart.......if SL with its monstrous 604hp and 738 ft lbs of torque has other issues beyond oil leaks, at least it will be something different to learn about

Why the new oil separation tube? How much was work this to replace. Simple fix or lots of labor? Also why did you need a new oil filler tube?

Dealer replaced these parts in response to check engine lights going off pretty regular over a six month period. The filler tube in particular, which apparently caused some "vacuum leaks".....was replaced same time as new water pump, which I forgot to list as faulty with a leak.....wish I was more technical to explain more... All parts and services, except regular oil changes, while I had the car, were covered under warranty so don't know the cost..... I also was advised that my intake air passages were getting clogged and needed cleaned out, but running Chevron and using Techron took care of that.......... And running the car like I stole it......between Atlanta and Asheville on country route 11 running wide open for long stretches.......

ok thanks, I guess that also explains the new o2 sensors as well. Considering all the fixes, it must have been purring perfectly before you sold it.

Car was running perfect for the next person.....traded great car for great car.........

Mann, this thread got me thinking of the troubles with a 2002 C4s. I am seriously considering one for next spring. But the could-be problems scare me a little, i wont lie... Some one convince me, commmmon lol.

The fact that Porsche eliminated the intermediate shaft on the 2009 tells you that this engineering improvement was in response to not finding a solution after several years of bandaid fixes.... Sticking to buying a low mileage good compression 993, with an engine based on the GT engine or a 993/996/997 Turbo, or 996/997 GT3, also based on the GT engine or the 2009 911 or newer would be my point of view if I was in the market for another 911.....

I really love the 4s's, it's a shame! I'm willing to drop 2 grand max during my lifetime with one, in a engine problem.

Quotes source post: 6845982

Well the engine on the 996 is pretty cheap to replace and if you want to drive an old outdated, slow car then the 993 is for you.

Quotes source post: 6845989

I had my 02 C4S since 2003, drive it every day hard including Toronto winters and I track it hard. Now have 100,000 km on it with no issues other then replacing wear items including a set of ignition coils & sparc plugs.

That SL65 should be an absolute monster, people routinely modify for 1000+ hp/tq FYI I do know how much that crate motor costs from MB, ~60K (it's basically the maybach v12)

Quotes source post: 6846053

Now that's my answer!!!!!!!!!

Could be worse, people spend $10-15k on small block Chevy builds and that used to be the cheapest motor ever.

My 2004 C4S cab is driven all year round mostly to NYC and back in all weather. The car is just shy of 80,000 miles with just normal maintenance. I'm surpirsed at the problems you had with the 2003.

Rob, I guess they don't make 'em like they used to.... which is fortunate for you!