44 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHPorsche's Service Commitment Deteriorating?
Reported or suspected cause
on porsche not the owner
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Identified cause
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Suspected cause
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Reported fixes
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Reported cause
I am under the understanding the burden of proof that the modification caused the problem is on Porsche not the owner.
Leading evidence: 'on porsche not the owner' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'on porsche not the owner' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check gt3 boards' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Just checked their site, and the links are still there but they are disabled!
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
You will have to drive to CT to get your tires filled though....
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The funny thing is that, until recently anyway, our local dealer actually sold and installed AWE and Fabspeed.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
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Suspected cause
As an aside, the larger the entity that supplies the product, the more likely the consumer is to claim ignorance of the failure cause.
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44 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
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It seems to me that Porsche's commitment to service is slipping. As you guys know, I am on my 3rd 911, the second of which presents with engine leakage. Well, wouldn't you know it? Porsche is doing everything they can not to warranty this situation. Their excuse? The vehicle has an aftermarket exhaust. Interesting, how can an exhaust system affect the sealing properties of an engine is beyond my comprehension. A friend of mine with a 997S had catalytic problems, and once again, Porsche refused to warranty the claim for the same purpose. What's going on? Is the attempted buy out of VW that has gone bad now affecting Porsche's long term commitment to customer service? If this continues, I don't see how Porsche will continue to be successful in such a competitive market.
The sad reality is that anytime there is a non standard or after market part on a vehicle that is under warranty manufacture can try to hang their hat on that to denie coverage. I have seen this with many car manufacturers. The warrenties say that a after market part can void the warranty if affects that part. Problem is, it is often up to the customer to prove that the part had nothing to do with the failure, in this case an engine like due to a differnt exhaust system. Sucks but this is not just Porsche.
Also, the problem with many aftermarket parts is that they may affect the emissions warranties and are technecally illigal. At least in Calif. So, I have seen folks get all tied up in this as well. Dealer: "You not only modified the car you put stuff on it that is illigal and now you want us to fix it? No way."
Don't agree with it but that seems to be happening more and more. Maybe that is sign of the times, they are trying to get every buck.
thing is... there are plenty dealers who sells and put on aftermarket parts that will honor warranties... but, yeah porsche can stick it to you... Porsche even states that if you track a car, warranty is void... such BS.
I know, I agree, but...they can legally not honor if they choose. Sucks but that is what the warranties say.
Yeah, I don't know why anyone would ever even consider taking a GT3 on a track.
Tony C
Hmmm, are you sure??
- Did you buy all your 911's new or used?
- If used were they dealer CPO's or private sales?
- Do you service the cars at the dealer?
- Is the car in question under warranty or past the warranty period?
I've seen Porsche go both ways (both be very generous on repairs and very stingy) on warranty work often based on the owners history with Porsche and the dealership.
Says who? An aftermarket part must be the cause of the failed item in question. Them saying that's not the case doesn't mean its the end of the story. You will just need to fight them on it. Pretty pathetic in my eyes.
all businesses are beholden to the bean counters and porsche has tried to resist, but it is no longer able to. i expect that, in future, porsche's level of commitment to its enthusiast customer base will decline.
we'll see where they are in a couple of years when i'm ready for a new porsche. i may not buy one, no matter how nice the product, if service and support have declined further. it's one of many factors in any decision to buy a car from any manufacturer.
Well, says the warranty and yes, it is not the end of the story. But if your car is broken and they will not fix it, that puts the customer is a really tough spot. Fighting these things is not exactly easy. Pretty time consuming, but one should fight them.
Your right: Pretty pathetic.
Tony C
Now that's interesting.
My buddy is in a Cayenne loaner right now because his 2002 Turbo X50 w/ only 19k miles is at the dealer getting a new/reman/whatever transmission on Porsche's dime. His Turbo went out of warranty in Feb of this year. He was complaining about difficulty in shifting in 2-3 before his warranty expired so it was documented; he suspects this was his saving grace.
///Michael
Good news for your buddy. The lesson here is to have problems, even minor ones, documented during the warranty period. Then if something happens, they have to fix it if you reported it before and they did not fix then.
Tony C
You say the dealer is "just as frustrated". Sounds like BS. How did Porsche find out about the aftermarket exhaust? The dealer must have told them somehow.
Its not the cost that bothers me, its the fact that if anything else goes wrong they will blame the exhaust. I don't have a problem paying for this repair; however, anything else that goes wrong with this car will be blamed on this and thus deny any warranty. Go figure, the RMS is also leaking, not much, but it's also leaking. What happens if this car suffers catastrophic engine failure. You can bet they will blame the exhaust. In the long run these guys are only hurting themselves.
+1
I am sure there are several sites that can help guide you about what your rights are. The first one I would be concerned about is, with whom does the responsibility lie to prove or disprove the aftermarket part in question has caused the failure.
Please keep us posted.
I get it, I do.
Still, given the potential long term cost, maybe it makes even more sense to take PCNA to court. I know it doesn't feel "right" in the spirit of your long term relationship with the company and the dealer, however you do need to ask yourself if they are holding up their end, showing good faith or putting the relationship in proper perspective. Maybe review a little case law on the warranty legislation as it pertains to aftermarket exhausts, see if you have a leg to stand on before you decide (because none of us here can really say one way or the other). But consider it.
If it wasn't obvious that this likely already went up to the regional level, I'd have understood bolting on the stock exhaust and rolling into another dealer, but I'm sure the situation is well documented.
What I don't understand is why the dealer bothered to inform anyone that the exhaust wasn't stock at all. I'm sure they would have loved to do the work. What is the rationale re: the exhaust being even a possible cause of the leak? Non stock backpressure? Modified sensor readings resulting in timing issues?
I'm sorry if I'm asking you to repeat yourself, but which seals in particular are leaking?
Russo is the 3rd 997 owner in the last month to report that Porsche declined warranty work because of an aftermarket exhaust system. All three of the cars had suspected RMS leaks. Porsche seems to be tightening their proverbial belt on warranty coverage.
So lets see...
Porsche has now started to alienate their customer base, built an sedan with an ugly *** and will end up building Boxster on the Golf platform after VW eats them alive.... terrific..
Yeah, I'm a cynic.
I too find this kind of scary. The funny thing is that, until recently anyway, our local dealer actually sold and installed AWE and Fabspeed. Just checked their site, and the links are still there but they are disabled!
If the RMS still leaks with the original exhaust back on the car, then they will probably deny the warranty work because you still have winter air in your tires!
You know, this all just reinforces the feeling I have had for a while. I think I would have been less annoyed if I had simply purchased a used Porsche WITHOUT a warranty. Then I would have lower expectations.
I'm trying to figure out what legal basis Porsche is using for these decisions? And what are the limits on what they can blame? What if you do install aftermarket rims, does that void the warranty on an RMS? What about a radio? A front spoiler?
It just doesn't make sense...
Good news really. If the stock exhaust miraculously fails to cure the leak then presumably Porsche will make the repair under warranty.
Good to know the guys at PCNA know a little something about mechanicals eh?
Although I think it ridiculous on the surface that Porsche denied your claim, you're caught up in a blanket policy. As someone who has manufactured and supplied goods to consumers, I understand why this policy exists.
It is impossible to have a specific policy for every type of failure and potential cause. Therefore it's common to make a blanket statement to the effect of, 'if you alter this product in any way, warranty is void.' The concern is not only the effect the alteration might have, but the workmanship. For example, when a stereo installer works on a Porsche, he frequently has no idea what he's doing (in a larger mechanics sense) and can cause damage that's very hard to determine. Rather than tear apart a car to isolate a problem, it is much more cost effective to see an aftermarket stereo and blame that.
Practically all of my customers, when something breaks, call me and expect it to be fixed. Never am I told the cause of the failure, although frequently I can determine the cause was something they did, or some alteration. Realize that on the manufacturing end, it is equally infuriating that a consumer will have no qualms about lying and deceiving if it gets them something for free.
As an aside, the larger the entity that supplies the product, the more likely the consumer is to claim ignorance of the failure cause.
Porsche's failure here is in not evaluating your situation on a case by case basis. Sometimes it is easy to determine whether or not an alteration was related. So I agree this can be infuriating. I was just told by my dealer that they would not fix a faulty A/C drain on my wife's car unless I did 40k service with them, because "it's part of 40k service" which I know it's not.
Tough times though, my dealer told me that all warranty replaced parts have to now be returned to Porsche to be evaluated by PCNA
This may be true, and on some level I think we all agree. But I would argue that with the purchase of a GT3RS our friend has bought himself into a higher level of commitment to the manufacturer. He isn't some guy leasing a Boxster (no offense to people leasing Boxsters).
That all said, it sounds like PCNA is willing to spend the time to resolve the issue and I would think the OP would be satisfied for now that his issue will be resolved one way or another.
Too bad about the oil leak by the way - please let us know what happens.
Absolutely agree. If Porsche has to eat the cost of a new engine, it should be worth it to keep a customer who would buy a GT3RS. There aren't a lot of that type of customer. There also aren't a lot of good service advisors who will evaluate the options and keep the corporate policy stuff in the background.
Wouldn't be great if it stopped leaking with the stock exhaust? Wait a minute, I have stock exhaust. Should I switch to aftermarket to get my leaks to stop?
What ever happened on this anyway?
Put the original system back on and take it to a different dealer. Actually I am going to hold off on obvious mods on my car until the 2 year reman warranty runs out
I had a major engine repair and did not get any grief for an aftermarket muffler. I really think there is a lot of latitude between the local manager and the regional PCA person that has to approve major repairs. Mine came through for me in the end. On the other hand, I won't be doing any engine mods for another year or so . .
check the GT3 boards. This was covered, and in fact, Porsche released a tech bulletin stipulating that warranty coverage will be denied if there is an after market exhaust. In fact, one of the rennlisters asked the main dude who was involved in the GT3 program, and the excuse, while thin, seems plausible.
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