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YOUR RESEARCHC2, C4S or a turbo?
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best value and prettiest of the 996 range
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I prefer the look of the 996 C4S to the turbo and many, many articles have been written about how it was the best value and prettiest of the 996 range.
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The C2 and C4S have the same engine and will sound identical stock (or as long as they are fitted with the same intake, exhaust, etc).
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As many bargain hunters learned, that was low-mid $20s, plus $2k to replace sacked out shocks, $1k for brakes, $2k for a new clutch, another few $k for fixing all the ratty things that bug you after the shine wears off, etc.
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best value and prettiest of the 996 range
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I prefer the look of the 996 C4S to the turbo and many, many articles have been written about how it was the best value and prettiest of the 996 range.
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Anyone drive and compare all 3? I haven't been able to test drive any yet since I'm still a few months away and dealers won't let me test drive their 911's until I'm ready to buy.
I'm thinking the C2 is the lightest of the bunch and may be the most tossable and also the cheapest.
C4s is likely 5-10k more with all the upgraded turbo bits but is heavier and may handle differently? I'm thinking for yet another 5-10k (say around $40k) I could get into a turbo but it would still have the AWD feel?
I'd be using it for a daily driver, mostly highway driving and against traffic (minimal if any stop and go, just left lane slowpokes). I'm also thinking of a manual transmission although the more I read these forums the more people I see driving turbo tips.
I'm guessing maintenance is a little more for the turbo since the brakes and tires are bigger. I also read the spark plugs can cost a little more to change.
One thing that is also in the back of my head is the turbo may be easier to unload 2-3 yrs from now (since I've read many non-turbo 996 owners wanting to upgrade to one) vs. the C2 or even the C4S. Not sure how much a $40k turbo will fall in price in that time though compared to say a $25k C2.
Any input is welcome.
I drive a C4S, so I think you know my answer. I have driven a C2, but I haven't driven a turbo.
They all perform well, and for a daily driver, you'll probably never push any of them even close to their limits, so you are unlikely to notice much difference in daily service. I personally prefer the looks of the C4S. I like the wide body look, and I like the look of the back of the car without the fin that the turbo has. Don't get me wrong, I think the turbo and the C2 look great too. The C4S and the turbo have the same brakes and tires, so you won't save anything there if you go with a C4S.
As for resale, you are right about the turbo, it will probably hold value a little better than the others.
IMHO, the C4S is the best looking 996 that was ever made, and it will perform well as a DD. That's my pick!
I'm in the same boat as you, shopping but can't buy yet.. I'm probably going with a C4s, I love the looks and the upgrades seem worthwhile over the C2. I'd love the Turbo but don't necessarily need that much power for a Daily Driver even though I'm sure its oodles of fun..
I drove a couple of C2's before buying a C4S. The C4S felt significantly different. It had more of a 'slot car' feel. Yes, it's heavier but you can still toss it around pretty good.
UGGGG - this is easy
G T 3 ! ! !
LOL
personally I would go wide body if I were to buy another car - Just way sexier (and I am an ugy cuss so I need ALL the help I can get
)
BUT all wheel drive is not all that appealing to me for weight and feel of the wheel... I really like the C2 for the light firsky "tossing about" (I have not been to pacific raceways - but have autocrossed) Turbo = a better choice than the C4 and for one reason..... that big metal thing bechind the back seat that makes all the noise/power
Depends on what strikes your fancy: do you like the on/off afterburner feel of a turbo or do you prefer the linear albeit less dramatic acceleration of the NA engines? On track, the C4S is actually a tad quicker around corner as it is lighter than the turbo, but once on the straight, it's game over and the turbo just pulls away.
I prefer the look of the 996 C4S to the turbo and many, many articles have been written about how it was the best value and prettiest of the 996 range. In the brit mag "911 & Porsche" this month, there is a small article about how the values of 996 C4S' have been steadily increasing.
Only you can decide.
I drive both an 02 Boxster and an 03 Turbo and I can't tell Turbo's AWD. In fact except for when I call upon the 400+ftlbs of torque or 420hp both cars feel quite similar.
My Turbo's going on daily driver duty -- mainly 30 mile commute -- starting today. Boxster gets some attention it needs that I've been putting off waiting for Turbo to come out of body shop (hit a deer with it over a month ago).
Turbo tire life will be a little less than Boxster's and can be quite a bit less if one hammers the Turbo around corners and such.
Brakes I'll do myself. Parts cost about the same I suspect.
Plugs only need changing what every 60K miles?
Turbo very easy car to drive. Cars with lots of torque almost always are easy to drive. Short shifting and even in town mileage close to 20mpg.
I got mine in a manual but word is a Turbo with a Tip is a pretty darn good car. In some ways Tip better suited to Turbo and let me tell you when you step down on the Turbo's gas pedal in anger not having to think about shifting as car accelerates down the road at ungodly pace sort of nice. Just watching where you're pointing car takes no little concentration. Car is quite fast.
But I'm sure a Carrera 2 or C4S nice cars. Purchase price less for same overall condition I would guess. I found a very nice Carmona Red C2 2006 with Tip that had I not found Turbo I would have bought.
When you're ready drive test drive them all.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Other people's opinions are not nearly as important as your visceral reaction to the car. Because it's so subjective there is more information in a 5 minute test drive than on all of rennlist.
Go test drive all 3 right now. There's no reason to tell dealers that you are months away from a decision. The good salespeople are the ones that understand that there is process to buying a 911 which can take time.
Can you get a
good
Turbo for $40k? The problem with falling values is that buyers have their expectations set by the lowest prices, and sellers are more than accomodating, trotting out dogs for cheap.
Saw a lot of that in the 993 world. For years you couldn't touch a 993 for <$30k. Then when the market tanked you saw all sorts of cars for low-mid $20s. As many bargain hunters learned, that was low-mid $20s, plus $2k to replace sacked out shocks, $1k for brakes, $2k for a new clutch, another few $k for fixing all the ratty things that bug you after the shine wears off, etc.
There are some very nice TTs and C4Ss out there. And some very cheap ones too. Maybe you'll get lucky and find a distressed seller, who really did maintain the car properly, and needs to sell it cheap. But shopping by price is a recipe for disaster even in a buyers' market.
Personally, I saved $10-12k by buying a nice C4S vs. a nice turbo. The bottom line was power--if you need the extra oomph, you have to go turbo. For me, the C4s was quick enough.
C2- more linear power delivery, more rear engine bias, therefore, it loves to turn and take the twisties-does not fight you (traditional 911 feel), fun . C4- same power, but u don't feel the weight in the back as much, more "Boxsteresque". Turbo- same as C4 in handling, more explosive power delivery. I Tried them all and kept the c2 myself.
C4S!!
As far as DD and mountain runs, I have NEVER felt that this car had a lack of power. I would have to get on a track to get close to the limits of this car.
Plus it's damn sexy....Yeah baby!
In my regular driving I rarely get to open up the 4S, so I would imagine that a turbo would seldom get a chance to make use of the extra power.
And, IF I really felt that I HAD to have more power, I think a supercharger would give me more of what I want, which is low/mid range grunt.
For me, I bought this car because I love the looks, hands down. Second, I love the way it drives/feels. Purely subjective...so get out there and drive all 3.
C4S.
I was looking for a few years to find a P-car suitable as a daily driver (15k miles a year).
Budget/maintenance wise a 996 made the most sense, then considering looks and performance, the C4S was it and I was lucky enough to find a beautiful example here on Rennlist .
Already put on 5k miles since June (inluding a 2500mile drive after buying) and loving the car more every day.
Yes I would love a Turbo, but at this time the extra cost didn't make sense (almost 997 territory) and don't need the extra hp as it is my first Porsche.
Good luck with your search!
I haven't driven a C2 so I can't comment, but I test drove a Turbo a few months ago. Everything felt like a C4S, but the big rush of power at around 4500rpm put a big grin on my face and had me giggling like Beavis -- the power surge reminded me of my modded 300ZX Twin Turbo. Unfortunately, the grin wasn't big enough to justify taking a bath in trade-in on my C4S.
I was expecting power delivery to be smoother. I can only imagine how much laggier a Turbo X50 or GT-2 would be.
Personally, C4S is a great car, but if you got the funds to buy and maintain a Turbo, then I'd get the Turbo. Bonus points if it's an X50 (I'm not much into mods anymore). Just remember that maintenance costs on the Turbo can be more than the NA.
Good luck.
///Michael
If you are really considering all three as others have said a test drive of each is in order.
If you want light and tossable I go for the C2 if you want big power and AWD I'd go with the turbo (it will knock your socks off with how much more power it has than a C2 or C4S).
I may offend some here, but the C4S is "big hat no cattle" with turbo looks and turbo weight, but no turbo power.....
and......if you want the best of all (big power and light weight) go GT3...
if you think you will want to mod it to get more power then the tt would be a good choice, you can get some big power gains for short money
i drove a c4s before i bought my tt and i havent looked back since, c4s is a great car but the power of the tt just blows it away
visit and dealer and avoid telling them that you arent actually buying one today, drive all of them and see what you think
The C2 has a much bigger trunk.
It might sound funny, but it can be useful on a long weekend trip.
Plus to me it's more true to the original Porsche philosophy of doing more with less.
There are perfectly nice higher mileage Turbos out there for $40k, but I wouldn't use a Turbo for a daily driver.
The C2 and C4S have the same engine and will sound identical stock (or as long as they are fitted with the same intake, exhaust, etc).
The turbo will sound different.
Turbo without a doubt. Not even a question at current prices.
For the robustness of the block (GT1 derived) and trans (G50 derived) alone.
If you're interested in making power, 1000 dollars into a turbo will yield ~100 bhp & tq , same money into a C4S and you'l be posting about "improved throttle response"
every time some jackalope asks you "is that a turbo" (which happens even if you own a boxster) you can ask them if they have trouble reading.
If you really want to, you can always raise the redline and overrev counter when you spec your flash.
The turbo doesn't sound great with the stock exhaust, this is true. You will get over it. There are some good solutions though. Head over to the turbo forum, check it out.
Interesting thread! I do kind of wonder at the price difference estimate way back at the beginning. Most of my looking (not in purchase mode, however, just looking) seems to end up with the turbos more like 20K over the non-turbo. (new, of course, they run 50K or more different).
An interesting question then becomes . . . used 996 turbo vs. used 997 C2S.
Also interesting is that turbo and GT3 prices are almost identical. I have not driven either, but might someday. . .
For now, very happy with my C4S.
PS: Still wish that Top Gear clip was available that discussed the difference between these three in a nicely illustrated manner . . .
Often with a turbo, depending on the design, there is a short lag between the time you give it some gas and the power ramps up. I always referred to it as "turbo lag." I had a turbo (not a P-car) and I did find the lag a little annoying. When it
does
kick in,however, the extra power is great. [hope this is what was intended by the afterburner comment]
Superchargers do not have this lag, but are not very popular. I always wondered why.
Hi
In my opinion the best looking 996 would be the C4S - But then I have one
You have to decide by testing each one for yourself - I have driven the C2 - C4S and TT For sure the TT had the most kickass power of the bunch but in the real World you can rarely use that power - The C2 excellent choice but not as sexy as the C4S which has the best of both worlds normally aspirated engine but with all the goodies from the TT and even better looks than the TT - I have not found the C4S lacking in the Power department !
On my Cardomain page you can see a couple of videos where the C4S shows it beauty and on page 4 you can find the Top Gear show with the TT and C4S just take Clarkson with a grain of salt as he is very anti Porsche - And there is also a C4S video test from Motorweek
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3365599
Enjoy your search and test drives
Good luck
Sigfus
"A good product must be respectable. Design is not fashion" Butzi Porsche, Designer of the 911
I'd go with the Turbo. I do think that the C4S looks better, but the Turbo is so easy to mod.
I agree with Jon996--the true question is 996TT vs 997S. I'd go with the 997 b/c of warranty issues and the improved interior.
to summarize, IMO: 996C2 < 996 C4s < 996TT < 997S
Kind of a goofy question - go with a cheap C2 and a 79' 930 - learn the cars and then make an informed decision later. Then sell both cars and buy what you REALLY have a hankerin' for.
I had to google what a 930 was...
I found a local 944 turbo in my area for not too much $$$. I thought if I couldn't find a 996 in good condition in time I would likely get a $10k car in the meantime so I could take more time looking.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...ype=b&make=POR
I would not recommend the 944, unless you have lots of cash to burn. It's a great car, but it's older and will likely need even more work than has already been done. Before you blink, you will have $20 grand sunk into it, and for that amount you could be in a 996 Carrera.
