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YOUR RESEARCHPS2 or RE050-A ??
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Run advan a048s
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I use the P-Zero due to their exceptional, and I really mean EXCEPTIONAL, dry track performance for a non-R compound.
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So, either I use my street P-Zero's, or I replace these not quite worn MPSC' with new one's.
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I use the street wheels on track when the track is several hours away or when the MPSC's are worn to the point where I'm not sure they will last the whole event.
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Suggestion
When one side wears out faster than the other, as often happens since we run clockwise on the track, you'd have to remount the tires on the wheels to switch left to right if you want to maintain their directional aspect.
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Which is the better tire for DE events? I know they are both streetable but I"m looking for max dry performance at the track...
don't know whether I"ll go 17" or 18" ...
I've run both when I had my M3 and I like both just the same, but I like the RE050A Pole Position price much better.
Neither tire is great for the track from what I hear.
you guys gotta realize there's always a trade-off. not one tire can do all things the best.
make sure you guys know that there is an RE050A non pole position which i believe may be discontinued and there's the re050A pole position. the non poles are your standard tires, but the PPs are the ones that are comparable to the PS2s. and cheaper. ps2s are way overpriced man.
I've had good experiences with Bridgestones in the past, and to echo Ben, the RE050A is a great tire esp. at the price point. Not to take anything away from the PS2...but the RE050A is what I'm going with for my next set.
kelvin, again...
not this (non PP, avg tire for us handling freaks)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....Potenza+RE050A
this (PP, comparable to PS2s, but cheaper)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....+Pole+Position
i've tested both on the track; the PS2 is a much faster tire. if you're only driving on the street, save your $$$ and go for the RE050A; it's a great tire and quite a bit cheaper than the PS2. they also last longer than their treadwear rating would indicate.
Why are you comparing the PS2s to the regular RE050As? What's comparable, again, is the RE050APPs, not the RE050As.
RE050APPs, by my experience, is about $50 cheaper per tire.
And, again, if you're tracking on these street tires, it shows people that, well, you're not going that fast.
Ben, I was already referring to the Pole Position. I thought it was assumed that we were talking about the Pole Position, and not the standard RE050As.
I only bring this up because the RE050A (not pole position) is not even offered in any tire sizes I've considered, only the PP. So I never refer to the non-pole position model. But clarification for others never hurts I suppose.
But if you're looking for confirmation, yes, the PP is the only one in the equation.
guess that is why the are many tire makers. Folks have a preference for many reasons. PS2 is a great all around tire for a Porsche. I found that the PP goes away quicker than the PS2 back when I had my C2. On the GT3 I have only run PS2 for street and wet track or if I had a 3 hour drive to the track. If I am local and dry I use Hoosiers. Since tires are disposable, pick one use them up and if you feel the need try the other. By the way, if you learn how to drive you can be very fast with streets.
PS2 is a great tire for the street, sucks big time on the track. Sidewall is too soft, tire rolls on to the edges easily even with the high OEM pressures. I corded the edges down while the tread itself remained full. And this was with -2.5 negative camber. If you only plan on a weeked or two DE per year, you're probably OK with the PS2.
Have no experience with RE050APP.
I have two sets of wheels. Dedicated track wheels get the MPSC's, street/track wheels get the P-Zero Assymetricos. I use the street wheels on track when the track is several hours away or when the MPSC's are worn to the point where I'm not sure they will last the whole event. I use the P-Zero due to their exceptional, and I really mean EXCEPTIONAL, dry track performance for a non-R compound. They are noisy and squeel like pigs on track. If you learn what the squeeling pigs are telling you, they are better than the PS2's on the dry track.
with all due respect, rob, here are my thoughts:
-PS2s are a great tire for a lot of sporty cars, not just the porsche
-Anyone that i know who's been tracking their cars and enjoy this hobby rarely run streets tires on the track because it simply does not perform up to their fun factor needs
i contend, once again, that the PPs are comparable to PS2s for the street and neither should be used on the track except for dudes like me who have but a couple of track days under his belt both being "school" days with maybe 20 laps total around my local track all with an instructor. tirerack's consumer/review data shows that they offer similar levels of performance and so do other reviews i've read (e.g. evo/car mag).
interestingly enough, it's teh goodyear F1 asymms that got the highest ratings in the wet and dry. i just can't ge tmyself to run goodyears on my car.
Boy Ben is touchy. He is looking for something that does both. As someone that tracks a couple of time a month, weather does not let me run Hoosiers every track day. PS2 works on my GT3 fine. Does it let me run 8/10 No but for all around use they are fine. As far as going fast, it is the driver. I have seen Ford Focus SVT on street tires bitchslap a 997S around Pacific. Seat time. Lastly, what works well on a BMer or Suby does not do the same for Porsche. With all due respect... thats funny
lol i'm touchy? if u want me to take the respect out since it seems you can't reciprocate, i'm cool with that.
palting said himself ps2s suck at the track. you say "On the GT3 I have only run PS2 for street and wet track". if this is true, how the hell can you even begin to compare the PPs to the PS2s on the street or the track?
c'mon dude. get over yourself. heck, we may even know the same people locally. too funny man you track guys. what, the ps2s aren't good for the BMWs or subarus? LOL
<<<---- see screen name
I have driven all of the tires mentioned many times on the track and on the street, in our tests and at non-work related events and here's my thoughts:
Given those two choices PS2's are the clear winner by a wide margin
but, if you want almost R-Compound dry track grip in a street tire look at these three
Potenza RE01R
ADVAN AD07
Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
I just put the RE050APP on my car. I like them a lot, stiffer than the So3s I had on before. I didn't go w/PS2s because I've read the Bridgestones are better in the wet.
I disagree on your "wide margin" conclusion based on personal experience, data published on your company's website, and corroborating comments made by your colleague
[email removed]
. Were your ratings considered in these tests at all, bud?
j/k
RE050APP:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....+Pole+Position
PS2:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ilot+Sport+PS2
8.2 (RE050APP) to 8.23 (PS2) dry track ratings? Close call on all customer feedback numbers as well. Hardly "wide margin" and at ~23% cheaper per tire.
RE050APP 245/35ZR19 Price: $251.00 (each)
PS2 245/35ZR19 Price: $327.00 (each)
Lovely tires the PS2s are as these are on my Porky4S, but would not hesitate to go with the Bridgeys due to its convincing value advantage over the Michys.
Bridgestone, please make 315/25/19 rears!
Damon, Luke, ayudame!!! LOL
I stand by my statement which is based on sheer performance.
subjective information and ratings are 1 thing but laps times are more accurate for performance values.
at almost three tenths faster in the dry and over seven tenths faster in the wet in a low 30 second lap is a significant difference in performance.
Larry... that can not be.... Ben said so.;-)
http://www.tirerack.com/images/reviews/SurveyTabs.gif
By the way, on the site when they compare the Bridgstone has better treadlife but that was it.
Luketh, thx for the data. It clearly shows we're all wasting our breath rooting for/against BS/Mich when in fact the good ol' Goodyears absolutely own (as I had mentioned above).
I'd love to see a visual of this with the actual cars ghosting each other and really understand how big of a hairsplit this is v. cute graph charts.
Again, I still stand by my position that they're comparable and the BS takes the cake being the price leader between the two, but in fact, the Goodyears Eagle F1 Asymms are king.
the Eagles did win the performance portion of the test ... and are clearly the currently leader in that category but ... the tires in the "Extreme Performance" category are even faster which is why I mentioned the ones I did ....
Nice! Thanks, Luke. Looks like these come in C4S sizes, too. I think my favored P-Zeros are getting dethroned.
Edit: WOW!. Those AD07's are expensive!!
Thanks, Arnee. But, for that price, I'd rather get a set of MPSC's. Been thinking about it recently. Current set of MPSC's aren't quite worn out, but won't last in a 3 day DE. So, either I use my street P-Zero's, or I replace these not quite worn MPSC' with new one's. I think I'll wear out the PZero's, and then just keep 2 sets of MPSC's for both street and track.
I hope so, the Contis that came with the car were a real disappointment on the track and for treadlife. I've got a set of AD07s in the basement waiting to go on the car. Looking at the tire rack numbers, based on the opinion polls (not overly scientific), they seem to edge out the PS2s for performance, with a little sacrifice in ride quality and tread life.
tire is really a personal thing.
i would not touch mpsc with 10 foot pole, i wont drive them even if given free to me. to me, they simply suck and highly unpredictable after 5-6 laps.
i am MUCH MUCH faster using RA1 or R888 compares to cups, that's just me.
also, magazine results are just that: for entertainment only. another tire many think are great are the yoko advans. even the sticky one's on my lotus sucked.
Looking for clarification Mooty...
When you say the Advans "sucked", that's relative to the competition tires you listed, or other street tires on the track?
I buy Toyos from Bob Woodman Tires.
http://www.bobwoodmantires.com/
They're not stocking much in the way of RA1s these days due to Toyo gradually phasing them out in favor of the 888 (spec series are switching to the 888 from the RA1), but they drop-shipped a set of the RA1 to me last week from their distributor, so they're still available.
I noticed the PS2 is way lighter then the AD07's.
With the weight differences it seem like it a choice between less unsprung weight vs grip. If I had a TT the choice would be to go for grip but having a low hp car, is it better to go with the heavier grippier tire or the one that weights less?
For the same weight as the AD07's I could go with 235 front and 315 rear with PS2, are these just too much for a low hp car?
For Tirerack - How come PS2 doesn't show up on the list of choices for a 996 C4S, the sizes match up but only PS and PS Rib show up?
very low grip as far as i am concerned.
short life, hardens fast, heat cycled to death on my 2000 lbs lotus in 2 track days.
very noisy
very expensive
for ME, i like PS2, RA1, R888 on street
on track RA1, R888, hoosiers
Thx for everybody's opinions here....
I currently run S02-A and like that tire... they are coming to the end of their life and am looking for a better tire... looks like TOYO RA-1 or 888 will be my next tire.... I plan to do at least 10-15 DE's this summer so I need something for track and street...
Just to remind you one thing about the Toyo R888. They are directional. When one side wears out faster than the other, as often happens since we run clockwise on the track, you'd have to remount the tires on the wheels to switch left to right if you want to maintain their directional aspect. Non-directional, or asymmetric tires, can easily be switched without re-mounting. It can be an issue on longevity if you do 10 to 15 DE's plus street this summer. Just a friendly reminder
.
using a G2X data logger on the same track with the same setup in similar weather in the same car. my lap times were faster with the PS2. additionally, the logger showed higher lateral and longitudinal levels of grip in every single corner. the PS2 is a faster tire.
it's just as fun to drive a car on street tires at the track as it is to run race tires. the only reason you really need race tires is if you need to be fast. no one NEEDS to be fast during a DE or a casual track day, it's only important that you are getting faster compared to yourself. you only NEED to be fast in a race.l some egos NEED to be fast during DE's or casual track days; it's fun to be quick. to say that someone isn't serious about the sport because he / she doesn't run race tires is ridiculous. it's not a fun factor issue, it's a bragging rights issue.
Agreed. Fantastically stated.
By the way Ben, using the data that Luke provided from their track comparing Michelins and the Bridgies, 0.7 seconds in the wet per lap is a pretty big difference. In a 50 lap race, you'd be waiting about 35 seconds for the Bridgestones to come in after the Michelins. But again, I hear what you're saying, particularly in light of what's quoted above. The key is to just be fast relative to yourself unless you're really racing.
since when were toyos considered "race" tires? guys run them on the street all the time.
but i agree to about your point to a large extent. and i think a lot of dudes want to be FAST.
yea luke brought some data to the table which i can't refute with data points from my end so i appreciated that. as i had thought, the goodyear Eagle F1 asymms offer superior performance in the dry and wet... but i checked the sizes and it's even more limited than the pole positions.
if i'm at the track with buddies, though, i'd be lying to myself if i didnt' want to be faster than them.
That's because you ride some big boys in back, BC. Actually, I was pretty excited to see that they finally have the F1s for my 285s in back. I will definitely be moving that direction once my PZeros are worn.
UPDATE: It's not the F1 asyms, it's the directions GS-D3. Well, might still try them. Pretty good tread pattern.
the compound used in the RA-1 / R-888 / NT-01 is a race compound; there is no denying that. some people DO run them on the street. this isn't logical year-round as they will crack in cold temperatures. see here:
http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/TireStorage.pdf
i will agree that the compound is not quite the same as say a hoosier; the toyos aren't as sticky and won't heat cycle out as quickly. you will see LOTS of guys using the RA-1 as a rain tire in a race; it's a budget race tire that you can (sort of) use on the street.
very true. it takes a humble man to push equipment aside and just race himself for awhile. the temptation is always there to just spend some $$$ on the car and be faster than the next guy. i submit that usually, a driver will gain more speed spending that $$$ on track time instead.
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