C4S track wheel setup

Hey guys, Im getting to the point where I am out driving my street tires at the track. Im planning to purchase a set of OZ Alleggerita 18" wheels. The wheels for C4S that are on tire rack have different widths than OEM for the rears I believe. (stock 11" I think?) They offer 10" and 12". I assume if I go with the 12" rears I should match them with 8.5" front wheels. Currently with the stock wheel package my car has predictable understeer, which is fine for now. Does anyone use these wheels on their 4S? Any tire recommendations would be appreciated as well... Cheers, Carey

you should change to R compounds.

What do you mean by out driving your tires? What are your goals and skill level? Hoe often do you get to the track? And do you trailer or drive? -td.

Why not get another set of OEM wheels (used) and put some track tires on them. The wheels don't need to look pretty.

I run in intermediate group presently. I'm driving an event each month.. Street tires and screetching and loosing grip by end of day. I'd like to mount michelin pilot sport cups but can drive with them daily in south florida with wet roads... I would like to have a seperate wheel package for the track.

Sorry, edit: Cannot use mpsc as my only tires...

You might also ask the 996TT guys what they typically run. I think there are quite a few guys on the Turbo board that track their cars.

I have Alleggerita 18's on my 4S. I'm running 8.5 up front and 10 rear, with 295 rears and 235 fronts, street tires. Upgrading wheels is a good idea, especially since the stock wheels are horrendously heavy(26 lbs front and 30 rear). But just fyi, changing the wheels isn't going to do anything for understeer. It sounds like you might want to change the suspension if you're fighting understeer. I've found that removing the mufflers and doing other weight reduction really helps to get the rear end playful. I run in the advanced groups on most tracks I run at, having done about 30 track days in this car, and I'm still on street tires.

V225, thx for responding.. So far the understeer I'm able to work with. The low speed corners I'm losing too much grip but in high speed corners the car drives great. More specifically what I want to feel is confidence. I've looked into x74 suspension, which I will most likey purchase along wih RS motor mounts but this post is really to learn about tire widths for OZ wheels. Your running 235s up front and 295 on 10" rear and still feel understeer? Interesting... I realize these cars are heavy and awd but there has to be a sweet spot in the way of suspension and tire package that will deliver a neutral handling 4S! You agree?

I should clarify. I did the weight reduction before putting the wheels on, and the weight reduction by itself got rid of the understeer completely. The wheels made the car feel more alive in corners and acceleration, and helped shave a few tenths off my lap times. I was worried about their strength initially, but they've held up well on track as well as on street. I think you'll like them.

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Street tires screech, that's just what they do. And that is where you want to be. In fact, if they aren't screeching all the way through a corner, you're leaving time on the table. There are plenty of medium to high-grip street tires out there that you should use. And, if you are in the intermediate group, I strongly suggest NOT going to MPS-cups (or other R-comp) for a number of reasons. But the most important is: your car is a system, when you switch to R-comps, you should really upgrade the entire system. That is, at a minimum, you need to upgrade your brake pads and brake fluid at a minimum. You should also consider new alignment, lower control arms, sway bars, and possibly upgraded suspension parts. AND, be sure to address oiling issues that come with higher Gs [perhaps X51 baffles, deep sump with extended oil pickup, etc]. For example, if you put on MPS-cups and they are up to temp, if you have stock pads and fluid, you might chew through your pads in under a day and likely boil your fluid every session. A second reason is that many/most drivers that switch to R-comps too early never learn to drive on slip , and remain slow drivers. Their lap times may go down because the car is faster, but the driver never gets better. Driving on slip really needs to be learned on street tires, IMO. Also, your driving style may dictate what type of tires you need to use. If you like slip angle, you probably should stay with street tires a bit longer. FWIW, most AWD Porsche drivers I've coached like way too much slip angle because the AWD can take it. But it's definitely not the fastest way around a track. Where are you experiencing understeer? Turn-in? Mid-corner? or Exit? Your description sounds like corner entry. If so, a likely culprit is driving style rather than car setup. If you have any video, we can do a quick analysis. I would bet that it's braking technique and release that is causing entry understeer. If you don't have adjustable suspension and sway bars, there's really not much you can do to address the built in understeer via setup (wheels or tires). You can change alignment and tire pressures, but you're pretty much stuck with it. If you could trail brake, it really wouldn't matter, since you would be rotating the car with your feet and not the steering wheel anyway. -td

Himself, thanks for your detailed response. Im completely aware that upgrading one system of the car will in turn uncover other issues such as brakes body roll etc etc. If I wasn't on a limited budget I would change a number of suspension parts, sways, control arms, oil pan etc. As far as grip and understeer are concerned my issue comes as I roll on the gas exiting low speed corners. The car pushes the front end. I keep track of tires pressures and have found that my current tires, kumho ecsta, drive really well at 30/34 fr/ rear hot. Varun is saying to put the car on a diet, which won't cost me anything. Good advice for any street car of course. He seems to understand my original question. So, at what point would you advise your student to run stickier rubber along with suspension and brake mods? I feel I could be quicker and safer if I trusted my tires more.

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Actually those modifications will be less trustworthy than your street setup. R Compounds have much more drastic breakaway characteristics than street tires. Also their limits are far higher, so you'll be carrying much more speed when they do break away, and unlike street tires they don't give you much audible warning when they approach their limit. A track suspension will have a much faster return rate, which means that when you induce oversteer, your counter-steer input will need to be extremely fast in order to catch the slide. As for the weight reduction, I have my car at 3110 pounds with a full tank of fuel and a 45 pound roll bar, so about 3065 without a bar... which is about the same as a '7 gt3 I believe. It's helped a lot with pretty much everything, and as you mention I didn't pay much(except for the seats), but my car is far from a street car for most people. Here's a list of what I've done: Racing Seats, muffler bypass, complete interior strip, lightweight wheels, spare tire removal It is extremely loud without any insulation and with the muffler bypass, but if you don't mind the sound, there's significant performance to be had. Have fun ripping things out of your P-car! Edit: Here's the graph from Skip Barber's going Faster! that shows racing tire limit behavior. What you want to look for is the range of optimal grip of a street vs a racing tire. The racing slick peaks between 3 to 6 degrees of slip angle, but if you let the car go any more than that (ie if you start to lose control), you lose significant traction, making the problem worse. The street tire is much more rounded, and has consistent behavior until about 10 degrees of slip angle, giving you a lot more leeway to correct your mistakes.

Cmon Varun... Any pics of that beast? Not sure I'm ready to strip my daily driver but I'm intrigued by your enthusiasm.

Well it's a Sunday morning and I have nothing better to do, so here you go If you're interested, here's a running log of my modification travails: http://picasaweb.google.com/PlorgThe...eat=directlink

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Without knowing what the corner actually looks like, in a typical you slow speed corner (perhaps a hairpin or decreasing radius corner), you can try to get your rotation done earlier under braking and then get to full throttle at/before the apex. In my guestimate, this will cure 80% of slow speed corner understeer. In other slow corners, just take a slighly later apex. This will cure another 10% of understter. Keep in mind that these corners are (by definition) already slow, so any time you might be losing on entry to get the car rotated earlier will be partially equalized with earlier throttle. By (or right around) track out you will have the same exit speed. So, you might lose a 10th or so under the curve due to overbraking, but at a DE a 10th won't even be noticed. I strongly recommend your first step to be proper seats and harnesses, which will improve your driving by seconds a lap. At a minimum, get a CG-Lock. As for when to move from street tires, my general rule of thumb is when you need to drive with opposite lock in 2-3 corners per lap, you are probably OK for R-comps tires. This means you are getting close to driving on slip with street tires, and you could apply those tools to stickier tires. I constantly have to remind folks that correcting the car in a corner does NOT mean you have exceeded the limit of the tires. Many students feel a little loose back end and believe they need to slow down just a bit to stay in control. We call this driving on rails, and this is where most drivers stay throughout their DE career. But if you are not correcting the car almost every corner, you are not driving fast. *note: this is not the same as catching the car due to bad inputs. If you upset the chassis or run over debris, the car will need immediate attention to stay on the track. When you are driving on slip, you are gradually getting to the maximum slip ange for your tires, and the correction is expected.* Here is a good video I found illustrating the level folks should have before moving off of street tires. [Not me driving] You need volume to hear the tires. There are a number of instances of great skill shown in the video, the ones below are just noteworthy: 2:25 - opposite lock in a high speed corner. 2:48-2:56 you can see and hear that the street tires maintain almost full grip with LOTS of slip angle (compare with 5:46 noted below). With street tires, maximum grip is maintained over a large slip angle allowing you to develop good car control skills [as shown]. 2:48+. Also illustrates one important reason you should NOT shuffle steer. If you need to grab close to 180 degrees of opposite lock, you'll want the steering wheel back to straight quickly to avoid a tank slapper or spin. By contrast, check out 5:46-ish. This is a section of video illustrating when street tires exceed the maximum grip of the tires. [volumne needed]. That is, you can hear the tires sqealing everywhere, which is what the should do when driving on slip. But at 5:46, you can hear a deeper howl coming from the tires. This is the sound of getting past the limit. You only hear it for a split second and then it goes back to screeching. This is yet another example of how forgiving street tires are and how much grip they actually have. You can go over the limit, correct the car and carry on. -td

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Below is my grip presentation that I posted a while back on a different forum. It addresses some of the myths and issues of driving with R-comps and slicks, and explains some of the terminology involved. Also, WRT R-comps, most give plenty of audible warnings before braking free. Only slicks have a short window. Toyos [RA1, R888], Nitto [NT-01], MPSCups and Hoosier R-6s all talk to you plenty. [Personally, I've never driving a R-comp that didn't make noise.] I suppose this is a perfect time to post up a preview of a presentation I've been meaning to finish up on the dynamics of traction to help my students out. It's still a work in progress, but most of the heavy lifting is done. I got assistance on this from Larry Herman, who has a great understanding of these concepts and has worked up similar materials on these points. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions/comments on this - including if it reads OK, if is too hard to follow, or if anything needs further elaboration. PRESENTATION ON GRIP You hear a lot of people talk about the traction circle, grip, slip, under/over the limit, etc. when talking about track driving. Of course, everyone understands that the only thing keeping you on the road is your tires. The simple equation is "more grip equals faster lap times." But many drivers are not getting the full potential out of their tires for their platform. Overlaying comparative data with better drivers in your car is one data point, but you can also get a comparative range for your platform by reviewing data, track records, video, etc. One problem is that are only a few descriptions out there for intermediate and advanced drivers to review to really grasp what is going on with their tires. And those may be too complicated to understand or too simple to be of value. SLIP ANGLE The first thing to understand is they way a tire generates force (i.e., grip). When a tire is turned left or right, the rubber at the contact patch deforms and generates force in the direction the wheel is pointed. But, the car doesn�t actually turn the same amount � instead it turns a little less than the wheel is turned. That is, where you point the tire is [generally] always more than the actual path the car takes. For example, if you have your steering wheel turned 10 degrees to the left [which we will assume equates to your tire pointing 10 degrees to the left], your car may actually only turning 4 degrees to the left, thus, you have 6 degrees of slip angle. Tires generate more force (grip) as more slip angle is added, up to a certain point. That is, a tire only has so much grip. GRIP This can be illustrated graphically as shown below. This graph is fairly accurate for all tires [street, R-comp, or slick] but the slip angle will be different. In this graph, force is shown on the vertical axis. The horizontal axis represents slip. As shown, as slip increases so does grip � but only up to a point. After the tire reaches its maximum grip it starts to taper off. But, contrary to what most believe, no tire just drops completely off. Grip may be substantially reduced, but it never goes to zero. The reason many say the tire just gave out is probably due to one end of the car losing some grip, which unbalances the car and results in a spin. For example, if all of the tires are at 1.0 G, but then the rear tires drop to .8 Gs, you have a car with pretty serious oversteer. The Yellow line represents something we can refer to as �driving on grip.� It is most often manifested by steering the car with the steering wheel [or front end of the car] only. There are very few corrections at corner entry, mid-corner or corner exit. The car is on rails the entire time. Most people drive on grip and never realize that they are doing it, or that there is more grip to be had. The Green portion represents �driving on slip.� This is manifested by steering the car with your feet or driving with the back end of the car [not to be confused with turning the car, which is done with the steering wheel]. There are many corrections in a corner with the brake (trail braking), gas (trailing throttle oversteer) and steering wheel (progressive countersteer to counteract excessive mid-corner or exit yaw). The tires have reached their maximum force and it is difficult to balance traction at all 4 corners at the same time. Because this section is so small, it is very difficult to maintain this level of grip in all corners all the time. As a reference point, using trailing throttle oversteer (throttle steering) in some corners is approaching the threshold from yellow into green. Rotating under braking [trail braking] and light countersteering under throttle at corner exit are indicative of actually moving into the green zone. Maximizing grip typically requires balancing the car in each corner by using throttle/brake/steering corrections. Balancing the car should not be confused with �catching� a car in a corner, which is more indicative of rapid traction disparity requiring immediate and quick correction � often referred to as not driving smoothly. The Red portion represents exceeding the tire�s maximum grip. As shown, the tire still generates substantial grip, but the tire is now at a slip angle that may be chewing away rubber rather than simply turning the car. It is possible to go from the yellow line to the red line almost instantaneously bypassing the green line. Most often, only one end of the car is in the red zone. Without a good skill set, this type of grip disparity often ends in a spin. As alluded to above, one common misconception is that lifting in a corner automatically pushes the tire into the red section. Although this may be the case, many spins due to lifting in corner are due to excessive grip differential between the front and rear. That is, a driver may be completely in the yellow section [say .8 Gs at all 4 tires] but then lift in a corner. At this point weight is transferred to the front or the car, which may push the front tires to the far end of the green section [say 1.0G] while the rear tires fall to .6G at the same time. At this point, the car has a tendency to oversteer. If the driver does not immediately [and quickly] correct this with countersteer (and gas) the rear tires will continue to add slip angle and ultimately will shoot into the red area. PRACTICAL EFFECTS In sum, every tire will have a window where there is maximum grip. However, most never get over the proverbial hump and learn to drive on slip. One reason for this is that many believe that driving on slip is actually driving �over the limit.� When a small correction is needed, they believe they have exceeded the tire�s grip capacity and then drive below that grip level. On the graph, this would actually be crossing the threshold into green, but then pulling back. A car driven at the limit will need correction in almost every corner. Another way to gauge where you are driving is by looking at your lap times. If you are about 2 seconds (or more) slower per lap than the track record for your platform, you are probably not driving on slip. If you are 1 second off pace, you are probably driving on slip most of the time, but not getting everything you can out of the car. [Generally, this equates to time lost on corner entry due to trail braking technique]. DIFFERENT TIRES The second graph is a generic representation of grip levels between different tire compounds. The black line represents street tires, which typically generate under 1.0 G of force. R-compound tires [e.g., Hoosier R6s, Nitto R888, Toyo RA1, etc] are represented by the blue line and typically generate under 1.2Gs. Slicks, shown in green, generate around 1.4Gs. These numbers may vary based on actual compound. There are two things to note: (1) each tire has a maximum grip level based on slip angle, and (2) each tire still has a point where driving on slip beings. Interpreting this graph illustrates that street tires have a large margin for error � even when driving on slip. They provide plenty of warning that the car is getting to the limit, and there is a large window of grip before traction starts to fall off on the back side. Put differently, there is a large margin of steering input and speed to play with before grip starts to fade. As shown, even if you add a little too much steering, the slip angle window is almost 2 degrees wide where roughly the same amount of grip is generates. Many people switch over to R-compound tires before they actually master driving on slip with street tires. Because of this, they do not have those skills to apply when using stickier tires. Although ultimate lap times decrease, there is still much time left on the table. Also, the nature of R-compound tires is that less steering angle is needed to generate maximum force and the window for this force is substantially reduced. There is much less margin for error, so it is harder to get to the maximum and stay there. The actual amount of slip angle varies by tire manufacturer. Driving at the maximum with the lowest slip angle is generally the best. With slicks, the grip levels are very high and the car�s reactions to input are very fast. Feedback is subtle and the window for maximum grip is very small. Because the window is so small, it is hard to find but easy to overshoot. Driving slicks to their maximum requires a level of talent and feel that most drivers will never acquire. Conclusion Driving any car close to its maximum is very difficult and equally rewarding. Pushing towards the evelope is not easy and requires dedication and patience. If you have gotten to a point where your lap times have plateaued but you know that there is more in the car, it may be time to get an advanced instructor in your car to get you over the hump.

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Just wait! It'll get worse. Here's where I ended up before I sold my 996 and replaced it with something more appropriate Track Mods: New 3.4L engine Upgraded to ROW M030 Upgraded to PSS9 GT3 rear sway bar / HR front sway bar adjustable drop links X51 oil pan GT3 lower control arms Cobra Imola II Seats (driver and passenger) Scroth 6 point harnesses 3rd radiator GMG roll bar Full Ruf body kit GT3 brake scoops GT3 brake liners PFC front 2-piece rotors with PFC-06 pads PFC-97 rear pads with stock rotors Motul 600 (sometimes Castrol SRF) Fabspeed muffler bypass BM shortshift 1 set: 5-spoke 18" wheels (AM) 1 set: turbo twist 18" wheels (AM 8X10) 1 set: turbo twist 18" wheels (AM 8.5X10) HANS Aggressive alignment There was still more to do, but I gave up on trying to make it a GT3 and just bought a GT3. If you want any comments on what was done and why, I'm happy to fill you in. Some really old pics of the car: -td

Very nice. Thx for posting... I'll keep you guys updated with my progression on the track and upcoming mods.

Himself, I really appreciate your last post. Great clarification of what different compounds are able to achieve along with their attitudes on track. I know I still have a lot to learn. One day I'll follow in your footsteps and buy a GT3 but for now the 4S is going to be my dual purpose machine. I realize it is not the best platform for track events but man you should see the perma-grin on my face after I log another DE. Truly an addictive and rewarding sport.

That Honda is a hand full huh? I did not see the time elapse on the video (using iPad) but watched the driver get a lot of opposite lock input throughout his cornering. Turn in seemed to be a problem as car was plowing. (front wheel drive) Glad I don't have that issue. Must've been quite a ride for you in passenger seat.

awesome Tom... and I have to wonder if Tim was that driver.... he keeps saying his Honda is a POS but he seems to be getting all of the $$$ out of it great write up, gives me some thinking.... I can definantly say I am NOT in slip - I have my work cut out for me...thanks for the read!

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Beautiful car being run like it should be! But..... C4s > GT3 Seriously though, I might get another car later on, but I think the C4S is staying forever. It has the looks, and contrary to what people say, it's a really fun track car. As for the mods, I have this 100% surefire way of not spending money on mods. It's called being broke

Hey Varun, we are on the same "mod plan"

You bastards - I wish I would not have stumbled on this thread! I love tracking my 4S, but I was thinking of selling it (or trying to sell it) to get a Spec Miata or maybe Exige. I'd prefer something lighter and less forgiving. (ideally with cheaper consumables) The 4S has been great to start my DE "career" but I feel (perhaps incorrectly) that the AWD and stock setup makes up for a lot of little mistakes. You can be so aggressive with the 4S that Im starting to wonder what would happen if I was man-handling a RWD platform in the same way -- I think its called an "off". The sounds is incredible (Tubi), and I love nearly everything about the car... I just wonder if I'd learn more with a different platform. (I can say these things now that I have a daily driver) Nevertheless, after seeing V225's stripped interior with rollbar and seats - Im starting to doubt my choice of getting rid of the car... you jerks.

LOL ^^^ yea, sweet looking "strip" I was eyeing that quite a bit myself

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Some skills will translate, but not all. Some RWDs are easier to drive than the C4S AWD [think E9X M3], and some AWDs are even easier to drive [think GT-R]. But, some RWD cars are a beast. Just get a GT3, and you'll have everything you need. Well, except a back seat. -td

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A GT3 is definitely in my plans, someday... Two of my buddies here have GT3RS 997.1s - they are just incredible. Sorry I've taken converstion OT. OP: I have an extra set of solid spokes for the 4S if you need them.

+911 to Himself! Great points and info! Thanks for this.

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Thanks! I love the 4S. It does everything really well and I've become so familiar with it over the years. That said though, the Exige is my dream car. I'd say that once you're able to get similar times as a good instructor in your 4S, you might want to consider changing the car. Until then though, have fun. The car can be a total beast if you let it And a huge thanks to Himself for that article!

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X73 is the correct version for your car

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BTW Netflix has this on DVD... I will have a copy by mid-week

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Is that Putnam? Mick's TT next to you?

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That is correcet however Gert at Carnewal has been installing x74 coilovers on c4s with no issues. He tells me that the weight between c4 and c4s is negligible. The x73 comprises of sway bars, motor mounts and coilovers for around $2700+-. the coilvlovers alone with RS mounts come to $1900. I'd have to keep my oem sways but Gert says this setup is very good and would save me some $.

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It's your money and your car, but Porsche designed a different system for the C4S for a reason IMHO. Additionally, not changing the bars will further compromise their setup. Porsche's official weight for a Mk II C2 is 3,020 lbs vs a C4S at 3,296. That's over 250 lbs between the two (also do not forget that the C4S rides on wider rear wheels than the C2/C4). Will the x74 work? I'm sure it will fit just fine. Will it control the additional weight as well as the x73? If it does, why would Porsche go through the trouble of an additional set of parts? Finally, Gert is a fine vendor but if memory serves make sure you include all duty and taxes in you pricing calculations as I do not believe Gert includes any of that in his pricing.

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Yes and yes(I think, don't quite remember the name ). TT was an auto with a roll bar, and his son was out there too in their family's mini. It was an amazing weekend(oct 23/24) with 10/10ths at putnam. I've been to a few track days, and this by far had the best turnout of exotic cars. Lamborghini gallardo, a carrera gt, 2 nissan gtr's, an F430, the usual salvo of Porsche's and corvettes, plus an insane 1000 hp 60's mustang race car that put down the fastest time of the day (1:12's). It was fun running in the same group with the GT. The guy was taking it easy in the morning, but he destroyed everyone in the afternoon....even put a big C YA sticker on the back

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Ray is correct on the X73. Gert should have both. Duties yup....There is no VAT. The VAT counts if the shippee is in the same country as the shipper. Gert is very good to deal with.

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I did a 1010th's the previous year. Good group of guys. Ever do any with the Central Indiana PCA? They do alot at Putnam along with the Ky group.

to Himself.... So after doing all that to your C4S....and spending time on the track....then moving to the GT3, what were your first impressions about the differences between the two? Obviously the GT3 has more power, but in stock form compared to the custom setup of the C4S, was it that much better still? (handling, suspension, etc)

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The tax I was refering to was not VAT. On my last order from Gert, UPS came after me for duty and the State of Illinois came after me for the tax.

Ray, I completely agree with you bud, I told Gert the same thing... If/when I do suspension I want it done right the first time.

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I'm curious about this as well.

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I've only gone out with 1010ths here in the midwest as I only recently shipped my car from California. I'll definitely look up the Indiana pca this year though. I agree about the group. I've tracked with numerous organizations in california, and 1010ths has one of the best groups. It is the only group I know of that does rolling race starts with open passing in the advanced groups, and the only reason it works is because everyone is level-headed.

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Good deal...

Ray, how do you suppose x73 works on both 4s and turbo with weights being unequal? Seems neither kit is specific to 4s?

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Are you sure the x73 for the Turbo and the C4S are the same? Both Gert's site and the Suncoast site indicate you must specify the model when ordering which would lead me to believe there are two different versions.

Not sure, I'll email Gert... Thx.

found a cool site in regards to Tom's info about driving, doing some searching... any feedback would be great, so far I have only browsed it but looks like the basics are well covered here's the link http://www.drivingfast.net/

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Doh! Sorry, folks! I didn't have a C4S, just a regular C2. I'l give you my impression from having coached a number of AWD cars - but if you want an owner's perspective, ERVTX (here on Renn) went from a 996 C4S to a 997 GT3. He's a top notch driver (read very fast) and a PCA coach as well. IMO, you need an additional skill set to drive the GT3 fast. In fact, I was quite surprised to find that the GT3 isn't easy to drive near the limit at all - just the opposite. Sure, it's easy to go quick, but not easy to squeeze 9/10+ out of it. As an example, on day 1, I ran the same times with the GT3 as my old car - which I knew like the back of my hand. It was only after a few more track days and even some pro coaching in the GT3 (Patrick Long and a few others) that I was able to understand the dynamics of the GT3 and really push the car. Now, the GT3 is between 4-6 seconds a lap faster depending on track length (running the same tires of course (Hoosier R6s)). Thinking about it now, my old car was actually a toned down version of the GT3 - as both have no PSM, PASM, or any other driver assistance. The only significant difference is the LSD, which enables way more trail braking and early throttle application. -td

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You are correct, the 4S has a specific package that is different from the turbo. Actually the only similiar parts are the motor mounts. Info from Suncoast.

Hardback: I just read your comments. Sounds like you are simply rolling on the throttle too early in the low speed corners which is where the push will be the most dramatic. Patience. These rear engine cars need to be driven by the rear wheels. It is the old advice....don't get into the throttle until you are certain you will not have to get out of it. So don't go hard to the accelerator until that thing is pointed right where you want it. Then give it the beans. The second or two that you are not in the throttle, does not translate into too much in lap times. But the benefit to waiting that small amount will translate into much faster speeds at the end of the next straight. (guess how I know....? )

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I just returned from tracking my car at Homestead this weekend with Chin. I decided to switch to Nitto NT-01 s this weekend after performing several 4 wheel drifts last weekend while on track with street tires. The R comps performed flawlessly. Once i got my pressure where I wanted it the car was glued to the pavement. Going into turn 10 I could carry a lot more speed without worrying about grip and in the slower corners such as the carousel and hairpin the car would accept higher speeds at turn in and exit. All in all I felt really confident with the nittos. They kept thier grip through 4 30 minute sessions and really made my track day experience that much more enjoyable.