Smokey's new threat

All those who are concerned about accumulating citations, particularly illegally written ones, should read this webpage. (If you feel it is your obligation to occasionally confess your flaws and pay your dues, no matter how unjustified the accusation, ignore the rest of this message. That line forms on the Right). http://www.valentine1.com/pop/ Smokey's got a new plot to extort your earnings and blood based on flawed science and you should beware of this before it is too late. It is already here. You need to be able to defend yourself against it, or join the above mentioned group of masochists. For older V-1 owners, there is no readily available upgrade at this time, but it is being developed they said. Keep checking the website for notification of availability. I suspect that Valentine wants to be certain it works properly and reliably before upgrades are available.

So does that mean I need to get a new V1 or wait for the new upgrade that is...? Whats considered an old one? Mine is ~2-3 years old now. Jeff

The latest V-1 has the ability of warn of POP. Mine, which is about 2 years old does not. The company is "working on" the upgrade, and will issue a notice on the website when it is ready. The person to whom I spoke at Valentine suggested I wait for the upgrade. In the meantime, I would ask the bear what he used to determine my speed, and if he says POP alone, I would go to court without thinking about it. If he says POP prior to conventional radar, I would ask to see the gun as anyone should always do to determine if the reading is still displayed. If it is not, challenge it under rules of evidence laws. You have the right to see the evidence being used against you. Of course you should always have a "conversation" with a citing officer who issues you a ticket, to determine legitimacy and other facts like where he first observed you, etc. I carry a tape recorder and record the conversation. I goes without saying that you should not wise off during this "conversation".

"If he says POP prior to conventional radar, I would ask to see the gun as anyone should always do to determine if the reading is still displayed." So does this mean that if your speed is measured with pop it does not stay on the radar gun, as opposed to conventional radar. I was stopped recently on the Taconic pkw and I have the latest V1 about 6 months old. My detector never went off and I was under the impression that he used pop, from the V1 website. I went to court to challenge the officer but lucky enough he was a no show. But I did not know that you can request to see the speed readout when he pulls you over. Is that what you mean in the above quote?

Under Rules of Evidence, if you are charged with a crime, you have the right to see the evidence against you. If you are paced, you have a right to see the latest speedometer certification. (I suppose the presumption is hat the officer is sane and honest and without emotion ) If a radar gun is used, you have the right to see the readout on the gun. I ask to see it immediately if he says radar was used. If he is dishonest, the readout could have been put in prior to your bust and he will keep it displayed all day. That has happened to me once and I discovered in court that the same officer on the same day wrote the same violations for the same speed over the same stretch of road. If the display is not on the gun as he claims he saw, challenge it in court. If you are busted with Vascar, the dash unit should print out the information and you should be presented with it by the officer. I wasn't and beat it in court. You also have a right to cross examine witnesses testifying against you and that is another means of ferreting out the bear's mistakes or falsehoods. Always ask to see the readout. If he refuses to show it, go to the law library near your home and research the rules of evidence for criminal cases in your state. Remember that Federal law is superior to state lawand the Constitution is the law of the land. If you lose, appeal and win.

What is "Vascar"?

Vascar refers to a manner of judging speed between 2 points which are entered into a dash mounted computer by Mr. Bear as he passes them, and as you pass them. Then the computer spits out a reading of your average speed for that length of roadway. Of course the bearmobile could be going in either direction, and the operator must physically punch in the points FOUR different times. Highly dependent on his eyesight and estimation, both when he crosses the points and when you do. He can use anything such as light pole, a roadway marking , a break in the curb, etc. All this while he is operating his vehicle in motion or he could put in the points before you pass by. Planes sometimes use Vascar, then alert a chase car. Remember both the plane bear and the road bear must appear in court in that case, or you walk.

Does the recorded conversation count in court if you take it without notifying the officer?

I show the recorder and inform them that I am using it to record the conversation. I have not had occasion yet to present it in court, but have one pending case which might break the ice. I also have an appeal of a case in another state. In that case, the Smokey video taped and recorded the entire stop and both sides used it in court. We are still awaiting the appeal results,and are anticipating proceeding to state supreme court if necessary. The Smokey informed me immediately when he approached the car that the event was being recorded. That's where I got the idea. Nothing to hide=nothing to fear. An officer is a public employee. He should be trained to be professional in his manner and execution. Nothing to fear. If they know you are taping the conversation, they will be very professional in my experience. This may work against you, as they know they must not slip up. But they can't deny their slip ups on tape if they do. Just a little device to level the playing field.

Ron_H I would think that the moment that you show the officer a tape recorder you are going to be perceived as antagonistic/confrontational and more likely to get nailed hard. BTW, are you an attorney? (or just playing one on the board ?)

greetings, i'm a bit confused by this statement due to the upgrade 'program' that V1 uses. from their site: Imagine a radar detector that never gets obsolete. Here's my plan. Continuous Improvement: Valentine One was new in 1992. Since then, every part inside the magnesium case has been improved, several times for many of them. Continuous improvement keeps Valentine One the top performer; Car and Driver confirms that our margin over the others is wider now than ever. We'll Upgrade Your Earlier Model: Since 1994, whenever we've made a performance breakthrough, we've offered it to our past customers in the form of an upgrade. The price varies, depending on the parts required. Included is a one-year warranty, same as new. No Planned Obsolescence: Other detector makers want you to throw away your old detector and buy new. Not me. 12 years after the first Valentine One, I'm still working for that customer, because every Valentine One we've ever made can be upgraded to the latest technology. Find out about your V1? Here's how to tell where your V1 stands along our Continuous-Improvement path. to me, this means you go to their site, punch in your serial number and then you get the price to trade your V1 in on the latest V1 - right? i have 2 V1's and have continually considered upgrading both of them - with the BEE out there i was actually thinking of doing this very soon. the way i get it, i send my V1s in, pay the difference, and get the newest incarnation of the V1 that DOES detect POP - right?! thanks for the informative thread.

I have been watching Ron's posts about speeding for a while. Just for the record Ron H, how many speeding tickets have you received in the last month, 6 months, year, 3 years? Do you see it as a problem that you are getting stopped so much? It appears that you can not get a ticket going 10 mph over the limit anywhere in the USA. How fast are you going to get stopped so much? What is the common theme of your stops? 90 mph in a 70 the normal deal? Sorry if you have posted this before, but you seem to be stuck on this topic and I was wondering why.

"Do you see it as a problem that you are getting stopped so much?" "How fast are you going to get stopped so much?" How much have I been getting stopped? You tell me? Making assumptions are we?? I'm awed at your power to determine that I have been getting "stopped so much". You are a unique individual, but unfortunately, mistaken in your assumptions. If a law is unjustly and unscientifically founded, I regard it as an obligation to question it. If you prefer blind allegiance to authority, forge on blindly. When I know the law is not being administered as intended by reasonable and learned designers, and instead is causing harm and grief for many for the benefit of a few I question it's validity. If a safe for conditions speed has been determined properly to be 50 mph and the speed limit is deliberately set at 35 to facilitate a feeding frenzy for traffic cops and courts, I also question that law's application. If you prefer to relinquish responsibility to someone other than yourself without question, be my guest. If you prefer to not think for yourself, that's your privilege. But for someone who intuitively suspects that some situations don't make sense, I encourage them to explore the validity of their suspicions. And if they are well founded, to act on those findings. Thankfully, we are Americans, and can change such ill founded exploitive laws. Or would you prefer that we apologize to England for the criminal acts of George Washington, 'fess up for our errant behavior, and hand the country back to the Englisn?!?

> "Do you see it as a problem that you are getting stopped so much?" > How much have I been getting stopped? You tell me? Making assumptions are we?? You have written in this thread about appealing one up the court chain. You wrote you have an out of state ticket in this thread. If what you wrote is true, you have more tickets active than I do lifetime. Let's see, you are posting about recording when you are stopped next, so you think you will be stopped again fairly soon. You are defensive to an extreme about a simple question, never a great sign unless you have something to hide. I don't think that the right to speed is in the Bill of Rights. Most laws of conduct are established for the common good. I do know that the reason the 55 mph speed limits where put in was to conserve fuel (which it does). So, how many tickets do you have. Don't you see it as a problem? The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Have you considered speeding in a controlled environment (like a track) where only your life will be snuffed out if/when you make a mistake? We all "relinquish responsibility to someone other than yourself without question." That is a normal part of human society. Next thing you are going to put forward that it is evil to stop at a red light or stop sign. Got to go do some work. I'm still wondering why you are on this OK to speed kick instead of attacking some other law. Isn't there something else more worth of your time and energy?

More assumptions. You must like to do that, I suppose. Rather defective to reason that I will be stopped soon because I have a recorder to use IF I am stopped. I carry a spare tire to use if I get a flat doesn't mean I will get a flat soon. Two citations is more than you have received in your lifetime doesn't meant that you have not given anyone cause to stop you, not does it mean that you have driven as many miles as I have. It also doesn't mean that I have been stopped for valid reasons; fact is that I have been stopped and then told that the only reason I was stopped was because I was driving a Porsche and "they all speed"; the officer admitted that he didn't even bother to follow me. That wouldn't make you a little irritated? You are welcome to your opinion however flawed, but "defensive to an extreme" is a bit of a stretch and "something to hide" sounds like a fascist cop justifying a presumption of guilt. I pity you in that case. Another stretch is the assumption that the 55 mph speed limit saved fuel. That was the rationalization, just as speed limits save lives. BS. After the repeal of the 55 mph limit, the accident rate dropped drastically. Fuel efficiency is dependant on various factors, including gearing, driving manner, etc. and to assume limiting a top speed will conserve fuel is insulting to my intelligence. I suppose we should declare that the absence of speed limits on other countries' roads is "speeding" and should be banned, or confined to race tracks. Of course their accident rates are lower than ours on those roads. You parrot unthinking unreasoning trite statements that don't have foundation in real life. There is no such thing as "speeding" for that is a relative term. Where is your proof that exceeding an illegally posted speed limit is dangerous? And I hardly think anyone would advocate not stopping at a red light while advocating traveling at a speed in excess of an illegally posted limit. Yes, I do have other things to do, but I also advocate insuring reasonable laws and freedom from tyranny. If you don't want to read the posts don't read them. Go down to the police station and ask them if they will punish you for being such a bad boy, for you seem to prefer guilty submissiveness to free expression. Some people prefer to defend themselves against unreasonable abuses of power. And they will respond constructively to these posts. Since this seems to have become personal between you and I, no responses to any future posts by you will be posted by me.

That's exactly right. My model (about, oh, 8 years old) can be upgraded to the current version (along with new mounts and accessories) for $189. That's my plan too.

Is there a suggestion here that pcar owners shouldn't exceed the speed lilmit?. That they should only speed at a track? That's why McLaren was invented. PAG would indeed be a small company. Additionally isn't this a Porche forum where people pay an excessive amount of money to buy a vehicle, that far exceed posted speed limits worldwide? I think you're right, but I think this response belongs on a Prius forum.

Tnunnery: Thanks for the information. I was not informed of that option when I contacted Valentine.

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Ron there is no conspiracy, I don't think about you in the night. There are laws that we all choose to break while driving. The question you don't want to answer is why are you so bothered by the laws being enforced? Why have you choosen to ignore it and made yourself a high profile target? The rest of us know the game and play it too. I'm going to guess again that you are well known now to your traffic enforcement people in your little berb of Sunnyvale. Imagine their talk in the locker room, "saw that perp in the red 911 going 85 on El Camino yesterday." His buddy says, "if I see that joker I'm going to write his a** up." You know a few cops right, that is what they talk about. You will make their year when they see you riding the bus to work. Imanine your record when they pull it up on the computer after pulling you over, do you think you deserve a break? Just be glad you aren't a black man with a nice car here in the Midwest, then complaining about police harassment would be logical. Take my word, the police are looking for biggest bang for the buck and the easiest way to catch perps is to pull over people ignoring the traffic laws and then them through the system. Until you make yourself target, they just want bank robbers, drunk drivers, and other felons. Had a buddy in Sunnyvale 20 years ago that did the whole speed gig in a red/orange first generation M3. He matured past it after 5 or 6 traffic schools and 10 years. Cop going the other way when he hit 85 on San Thomas in a 35, cop flipped a U and chased him. He was at full points and got lost down a side street. Next day they nailed him in the same area going 43 in the 35. Oops. He used to catch a ride home with me for a while after that. Some advice from an old man, you should have choosen to answer the original post directly or not answer. You jargon filled BS to change the subject just makes for better fun pinning you down. A great answer to my first post would have been that it is my hobby. Be safe and consider leaving the valley, all that stress makes you do weird things.

Yes, I am attempting to be as over the top as Ron is. I know it is too much, but the idea that the cops are out to get some kid with a Porsche in Sunnyvale is just stupid. He is clearly off the end of the bell curve, which might be amusing if he wasn't drinking the koolaid while he posted. You can only post about tire pressure, short throw shifters and gas choices so many times.