30K Mile Service RIP OFF !

Gents, I dropped off my Black Beauty today for it's 30K mile service, only to find out that Paul Miller Porsche charged me $1,000 - When I ask the manager why so dam much for a simple oil change and plugs replacement, he replied it is the going rate. I replied not true, from my Porsche Forum the average price for a 30K service was $500 - $600 dollars, what gives. With that said what is a consumer to do ? It just isn't fair, you pay top dollar and now they take advantage of the consumer. Just because we can afford to buy expensive cars, doesn't mean we should be taken advantage of. My question is this: What are our options ?

none, sucks though

DIY? Marc

Get an estimate before you take your car in. Line item it out. It shouldn't take them long at all to do. If you don't like the price at your dealer, tell them you know a good independent that will do it for $X. If the dealership wants your business [which they should], they will at least come close to the indy's number. Always get an estimate and try to get some sort of relationship going with your service advisors. They have a lot of leeway in what they can charge.

DIY or indie shop. or, negotiate with dealer prior to signing the w/o.

For one thing, plugs do not need to be replaced at 30K, they are a 60K item. (common dealer trick to double up on service items and charge you twice.) A 30K is the 15K(oil, filter) + the pollen filter and the air filter, that is it (except for the usual check this and that). The local Porsche dealer only charges $399 for this service, which is about right, given the parts & oil are about $120, and then 2 hours labor for an hours work. The only other thing to consider getting done at 30K is that if you car is at a 2 year anniversary to get the brake fluid changed out. These boards are full of east coast stories about $1000 30K services. Are east coast Porsche owners such chumps that the dealers feel it is easy pickings to overcharge them in such a blatant way? I just don't get it. Not reviewing what you are having done to your car in advance and negotiating a proper price is inexcusable. By not doing so, one is giving approval to be stolen from. This is all the more reason to DIY. It is very easy to do, and after you have changed your oil and filters, take that $880 you just saved and go buy yourself something nice.

I felt raped after my 60k service. $1,000 for that! You have got to be kidding me. I would have done the DIY thing or at the very least, the indi route, had I known that. Having someone do your service outside of a dealer, is not a warranty issue. Now your dealer won't like you, as its big bucks out of his pocket Orient: Per the plugs. I think there was a thread a couple months ago, that Porsche now "recommends" plugs at 30k..... We all know why

Only for some model years. Here are the spark plug replacement intervals for the different 996 years and models

A couple of thoughts: 1. I can't imagine leaving my car at the Porsche dealer without a quote before I walk out, especially for standard, flat rate work such as the 30K check. 2. My indy shop here in Atlanta area did the 30K check on my 2000 996 asked me if I would like to replace the plugs, since the mileage was 35K, and save coming back in just 10K just to replace the originals. He stated that Porsche called for replacing all the older 996 plugs (99 & 00) with the 60 K plugs at the appropriate time .... and, as a result, ALL 996's would eventually have the 60K plug interval.

Why would you give a blank check to the dealer in the first place? Written estimates with details always. Part of life's learning curve.

Who do you use the the Atlanta area?? Thanks

Orient, if you drive your car like a girl, then 60k is ok, if it undergoes heavy duty usage, like mine, change them at 30k. Save the chump crap chump.

So there you have it, Chump drivers should change their plugs at 30K!

I just had the 30k service on my C4S performed last week at a N.NJ dealer. Before I went in I called the dealer and asked him how much it was going to be and he quoted me $735. I asked the same question when I called to book it in and the same question again when I dropped it off. Same reply each time. When they called to say the car was ready I asked how much and was told $950! What happened to the $735 I asked (since there was nothing unusual). After some quick checking he told me that I had been charged the wrong labor rate (apparently turbos are more expensive � which sounds odd in itself) and dropped it back to the original quote. On a related note - I also got a quote from a well respected independent � they quoted me $450. I decided to use the Porsche dealer just because the car is still under warranty and I have already had a few small items taken care of by them without hassle. My experience is that things that are borderline go through much more smoothly if you have used them for servicing (time will tell).

Orient, have you ever seen what they look like after 30k miles, not pretty. I wouldn't go 60k on a set.

I spent six years of my life, out of some fifteen years in the car business, as an assistant service manager at a large dealership here in California. The estimate you get from the service writer can not, I repeat, can not go over the original estimate without your prior approval. I am sure this is probably the same case in most states? If you are going to OK the original estimate, and then buy in to more damage, then you only have yourself to blame! Do it yourself, or take it to an independent. If you like spending your money at the dealership, then quit your damn complaining! Tom L 2002 C2

Yes I have, and depending on the plug some will degrade pretty significantly at 30K. The single and dual electrode plugs that are specified for 99s through 2001s can get pretty worn at 30K. The plugs that are specified for 2002 and later cars are 4 electrode plugs, and will actually do quite well up to 90K (not that I would say run them that long). But 60K on these plugs is quite acceptable. If fact the 4 electrode plugs will work fine in the earlier cars as well. Changing these types of plugs at an earlier interval certainly won't do any harm, but in the process you are discarding a perfectly good part, and the improvement gained is little if any.

Of the two dealers, I prefer Hennessy in Alpharetta .... friendlier ... seemingly more appreciative of my business. For an indy shop, I have used Reggie Cumming at Performance Place in Mareitta for years. His shop looks like something out of a magazine .... you know, eat off the floor and all that. He is not cheap, but is factory trained and, most importantly, HONEST.

15k is around $375 30k is around $700 60k is around $850 which is basically a 30k + plug change That's the going rate that I've been quoted. Of course, I spend 1-3 hrs depending on what's required and do it myself. If you are not handy, just pay up and don't complaint. You'lll get a free car wash and a rental car!

Oh yes...I had the plugs changed as part of the $735. The car was a little rough when cold and just started and this seems to have cured that. Barry

I well remember this wonderful state law from living in California in the early 70's. One couldn't even authorize increased charges on the phone .... had to go in and sign a revised work order. Have never lived in a state since that has such a law.

I called nearly every dealer in the Bay Area when my 30K service was due. The least expensive I found was around $800 and most were over $1,000. Based on that I would not say you were over charged based on having the dealer do it. I always ask up front what any repairs are going to cost. Based on the prices I was getting I decided to just do it myself. I did make the mistake of buying the plugs and filters from a local dealer and could have saved around $100 if I had ordered the parts on-line, but the total was still only about $300. I look at it as a pure savings of $500 as it would have taken me more time to drive to the dealer that was $800 leave my car there and then drive back to pick it up. It took me less than 2 hours to do everything and would be at least half that if you decided not to change the plugs. I wouldn't expect the dealer to discount anything since you didn't discuss price before hand.

My plugs went well before 20K on my 2002. This led to unburnt fuel entering the catalytic converters, where it ignited and burned out the cats. Check your plugs. Replacing the plugs makes your car run better and it is a lot cheaper than replacing the cats. Also, it wasn't obvious that my plugs were bad, so you really need to check them visually before concluding that you would merely be wasting a good part by replacing.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

To your point, I had my 993 serviced at a Porsche Dealer about ten years ago. It was for the 30K service. My first recommendation is to never request a generic service because it gives the Dealers cart blanche power over what services he feels should be included in the 30K service. Do some investigation and then tell the SA what specific services you want them to do. That's what I did and we agreed on a price. When I went to pay the bill, the charge was $150 higher than the agreed upon price. The higher price included a radiator flush which they claimed they always did on a 30K service. I said that's fine but I didn't authorize it, and the SA immediately removed the charge.

Factory techs tearing everything apart to determine the problem. My techs are super cool, let me see it all and got it covered under warranty (except the plugs themselves).

Um ... a radiator flush on a 993? Vic 95 C4

OK, so how did they arrive at this conclusion? Did they also clean the cylinder cooling fins?

Well, among other things, the plugs were bad. Also, the ceramic inserts for the cats had burned apart. The inner part separated from the outer can. First the passenger side, and then the driver's side. Nothing else but unburnt fuel could cause the insides of your cats to burn like that. Everything else except the plugs on the car checked out, so . . .

OK, so the engine was running in an over rich condition. But that means that the root cause was not "bad" sparkplugs. The plugs were probably fouled from the over rich condition and cats were a casualty of post exhaust fuel combustion. So this begs the question of what was causing the engine to run in an over rich condition. I guess what I am trying to say is that in your case the plugs were damaged by the engine fuel management operating incorrectly, not because of the normal wear on the plugs. The 4 electrode plugs in 2002 and later cars under normal engine conditions will last 60,000 miles with only marginal degradation toward the end of this period. Does that make sense?

I changed mine out at 60k, they looked so good that I was tempted to put them back in........remember you have to pull the mufflers to change the plugs......

I am coming up on 60K and plan on doing it myself over the winter

I have no disagreement with you. Also, I am not saying that the plugs necessarily would need to be changed. I am saying that it would be worth it to check the condition of your plugs at 30K. I had reason to check it earlier, but I do think that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Mufflers??? on what a 996? hmmm... didn't have to remove the cans on mine.

Here is a method for 996 Spark Plug change that does not require muffler removal

No muffler removal to change plugs. 1 hour DIY with coffee breaks.

If you paid for a radiator flush on a 993, I have a bridge in New York that is for sale....cheap! For those of you on this board not as familiar with older Porsches, the 911 up until the 996 version was AIR COOLED, so there was no radiator. I would love to see a scan of that invoice if you still have it

Yikes! Is this really a possibility that people reading this board might not know that there are air-cooled Porsches? you've got to be kidding, right?

LOL Sometimes my brain and fingers don't work well together. Substitute brake for radiator.

Whew, for a minute I thought my car had a radiator

All good Fast1...knowing some dealerships, it wouldn't surprise me if they had tried to charge you for a radiator flush or antifreeze 'top up' in a 993

Thanks for the thread- I just pressed my Acura dealer for line items today and wound up paying $230 intead of $570 for a 30K service on my wife's MDX. Only services missing were of the "inspect" and "check" variety. Thanks again